by liberal japonicus
A thread about that dump Trump and Vance took on the Oval Office rug. To be honest, I've not looked at the video, I think it would make me physically ill. But below the break, I've put in the transcript, which I got from AP here. Probably like everyone else, I've seen tons of stuff on line, and I imagine folks have the same reaction that I had, but I didn't want to pretend that it didn't happen. Anyway, have at it.
Zelenskyy challenges Vance on Russia and diplomacy
Vance: “For four years, the United States of America, we had a president who stood up at press conferences and talked tough about Vladimir Putin, and then Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country. The path to peace and the path to prosperity is, maybe, engaging in diplomacy. We tried the pathway of Joe Biden, of thumping our chest and pretending that the president of the United States’ words mattered more than the president of the United States’ actions. What makes America a good country is America engaging in diplomacy. That’s what President Trump is doing.”
Zelenskyy: “Can I ask you?”
Vance: “Sure. Yeah.”
Zelenskyy: “OK. So he (Putin) occupied it, our parts, big parts of Ukraine, parts of east and Crimea. So he occupied it in 2014. So during a lot of years — I’m not speaking about just Biden, but those times was (Barack) Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump. And God bless, now, President Trump will stop him. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people. You know what the --"
Trump: “2015?”
Zelenskyy: “2014.”
Trump: “Oh, 2014? I was not here.”
Vance: “That’s exactly right.”
Zelenskyy: “Yes, but during 2014 ‘til 2022, the situation is the same, that people have been dying on the contact line. Nobody stopped him. You know that we had conversations with him, a lot of conversations, my bilateral conversation. And we signed with him, me, like, you, president, in 2019, I signed with him the deal. I signed with him, (French President Emmanuel) Macron and (former German Chancellor Angela) Merkel. We signed ceasefire. Ceasefire. All of them told me that he will never go … But after that, he broke the ceasefire, he killed our people, and he didn’t exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange of prisoners. But he didn’t do it. What kind of diplomacy, JD, you are speaking about? What do you mean?”
Vance: “I’m talking about the kind of diplomacy that’s going to end the destruction of your country. Mr. President, with respect, I think it’s disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office to try to litigate this in front of the American media. Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president for trying to bring an end to this conflict.”
Zelenskyy: “Have you ever been to Ukraine that you say what problems we have?”
Vance: “I have been to –”
Zelenskyy: “Come once.”
Vance: “I’ve actually watched and seen the stories, and I know that what happens is you bring people, you bring them on a propaganda tour, Mr. President. Do you disagree that you’ve had problems, bringing people into your military?”
Zelenskyy: “We have problems –”
Vance: “And do you think that is respectful to come to the Oval Office of the United States of America and attack the administration that is trying to prevent the destruction of your country?”
Zelenskyy: “A lot of questions. Let’s start from the beginning.”
Vance: “Sure.”
Zelenskyy: “First of all, during the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you have nice ocean and don’t feel now. But you will feel it in the future. God bless –”
Trump: “You don’t know that. You don’t know that. Don’t tell us what we’re going to feel. We’re trying to solve a problem. Don’t tell us what we’re going to feel.”
Zelenskyy: “I’m not telling you. I am answering on these questions.”
Trump: “Because you’re in no position to dictate that.”
Vance: “That’s exactly what you’re doing.”
Trump: “You are in no position to dictate what we’re going to feel. We’re going to feel very good.”
Zelenskyy: “You will feel influenced.”
Trump: “We are going to feel very good and very strong.”
Zelenskyy: “I am telling you. You will feel influenced.”
Trump: “You’re, right now, not in a very good position. You’ve allowed yourself to be in a very bad position –”
Zelenskyy: “From the very beginning of the war —”
Trump: “You’re not in a good position. You don’t have the cards right now. With us, you start having cards.”
Zelenskyy: “I’m not playing cards. I’m very serious, Mr. President. I’m very serious.”
Trump: “You’re playing cards. You’re gambling with the lives of millions of people. You’re gambling with World War III.”
Zelenskyy: “What are you speaking about?”
Trump: “You’re gambling with World War III. And what you’re doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country that’s backed you far more than a lot of people said they should have.”
Vance: “Have you said thank you once?”
Zelenskyy: “A lot of times. Even today.”
Vance: “No, in this entire meeting. You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October.”
Zelenskyy: “No.”
Vance: “Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president who’s trying to save your country.”
Zelenskyy: “Please. You think that if you will speak very loudly about the war, you can –”
Trump: “He’s not speaking loudly. He’s not speaking loudly. Your country is in big trouble.”
Zelenskyy: “Can I answer —”
Trump: “No, no. You’ve done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble.”
Zelenskyy: “I know. I know.”
Trump: “You’re not winning. You’re not winning this. You have a damn good chance of coming out OK because of us.”
Zelenskyy: “Mr. President, we are staying in our country, staying strong. From the very beginning of the war, we’ve been alone. And we are thankful. I said thanks.”
Trump demands Zelenskyy accept a ceasefire
Trump: “If you didn’t have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks.”
Zelenskyy: “In three days. I heard it from Putin. In three days.”
Trump: “Maybe less. It’s going to be a very hard thing to do business like this, I tell you.
Vance: “Just say thank you.”
Zelenskyy: “I said a lot of times, thank you, to American people.”
Vance: “Accept that there are disagreements, and let’s go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to fight it out in the American media when you’re wrong. We know that you’re wrong.”
Trump: “But you see, I think it’s good for the American people to see what’s going on. I think it’s very important. That’s why I kept this going so long. You have to be thankful.”
Zelenskyy: “I’m thankful.”
Trump: “You don’t have the cards. You’re buried there. People are dying. You’re running low on soldiers. It would be a damn good thing, and then you tell us, ‘I don’t want a ceasefire. I don’t want a ceasefire, I want to go, and I want this.’ Look, if you can get a ceasefire right now, I tell you, you take it so the bullets stop flying and your men stop getting killed.”
Zelenskyy: “Of course we want to stop the war. But I said to you, with guarantees.”
Trump: “Are you saying you don’t want a ceasefire? I want a ceasefire. Because you’ll get a ceasefire faster than an agreement.”
Zelenskyy: “Ask our people about a ceasefire, what they think.”
Trump: “That wasn’t with me. That was with a guy named Biden, who is not a smart person.”
Zelenskyy: “This is your president. It was your president.”
Trump: “Excuse me. That was with Obama, who gave you sheets, and I gave you Javelins. I gave you the Javelins to take out all those tanks. Obama gave you sheets. In fact, the statement is Obama gave sheets, and Trump gave Javelins. You’ve got to be more thankful because let me tell you, you don’t have the cards. With us, you have the cards, but without us, you don’t have any cards.”
Trump says Putin respects him due to the investigations of his first term
Vance, restating a reporter’s question: “She is asking what if Russia breaks the ceasefire.”
Trump: “What, if anything? What if the bomb drops on your head right now? OK, what if they broke it? I don’t know, they broke it with Biden because Biden, they didn’t respect him. They didn’t respect Obama. They respect me. Let me tell you, Putin went through a hell of a lot with me. He went through a phony witch hunt ... All I can say is this. He might have broken deals with Obama and Bush, and he might have broken them with Biden. He did, maybe. Maybe he did. I don’t know what happened, but he didn’t break them with me. He wants to make a deal. I don’t know if you can make a deal.”
“The problem is I’ve empowered you (turning toward Zelenskyy) to be a tough guy, and I don’t think you’d be a tough guy without the United States. And your people are very brave. But you’re either going to make a deal or we’re out. And if we’re out, you’ll fight it out. I don’t think it’s going to be pretty, but you’ll fight it out. But you don’t have the cards. But once we sign that deal, you’re in a much better position, but you’re not acting at all thankful. And that’s not a nice thing. I’ll be honest. That’s not a nice thing.
“All right, I think we’ve seen enough. What do you think? This is going to be great television. I will say that.”
It's frequently difficult, for those accustomed to the safety of living in a fantasy, to interact with someone who persists in injecting reality into the conversation. When the individual has no patience with non-sycophants, and rarely encounters them in person, shouting is likely. And if the realist isn't intimidated and doesn't back down? Major meltdown. Which is what we saw.
The one positive from the fiasco is that nobody abroad can continue to kid themselves that Trump is someone that they can work constructively with. So far, it does appear to have concentrated minds in many foreign governments.
One thing we can be sure of. While the 20th century, at least the latter half, might be characterized as the "American Century", the 21st century definitely won't be. At best, if we start before the end of the 2030s, it will probably be the end of the century before the damage to our position can be repaired.
Posted by: wj | March 03, 2025 at 09:31 AM
Zelenskyy: “First of all, during the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you have nice ocean and don’t feel now. But you will feel it in the future. God bless –”
Trump: “You don’t know that. You don’t know that. Don’t tell us what we’re going to feel. We’re trying to solve a problem. Don’t tell us what we’re going to feel.”
Zelenskyy: “I’m not telling you. I am answering on these questions.”
Trump: “Because you’re in no position to dictate that.”
Vance: “That’s exactly what you’re doing.”
Trump: “You are in no position to dictate what we’re going to feel. We’re going to feel very good.”
Zelenskyy: “You will feel influenced.”
Trump: “We are going to feel very good and very strong.”
To me this was the telling part of the exchange. Emperor Ropa Nueva did not get involved until Zelenskyy implied that Putin's expansionism would affect Ropa Nueva and his control over the situation.
No way Ropa Nueva could accept that.
He's all in on Magical Thinking. Has been since growing up in Norman Vincent Peale's church. And Zelenskyy's words here are a direct attack on Ropa Nueva's visualization of success. That sort of negativity cannot be allowed to stand because any dent in that absolute visualization will break the spell.
See also the AP.
See also anyone else who disagrees with his proclamations of future grandeur.
He thinks he's got the Green Lantern Power Ring and his willpower is his superpower. It's why he cannot brook contradiction. He must win at all costs or his power is broken.
What an idiot he is.
Posted by: nous | March 03, 2025 at 02:36 PM
After Vance fled his ski trip to Vermont, someone local put up a sign that said, "Goodbye, Felicia."
So my names for them are the pussygrabber and Felicia.
Looks like he's started a trade war. I really don' think he will come out a winner. Too many MAGGOTs will be directly harmed. They are incapable of empathy for others--indeed, it is characteristic that they LIKE harming others--but they didn't vote for the pussygrabber to screw themselves.
Posted by: wonkie | March 04, 2025 at 01:24 PM
I have called my Representative (Katherine Clark) and both Senators (Warren and Markey) to say that if they MUST attend tonight's (non State of the Union) speech, please dress like Elon: black T-shirt or sweater, random baseball cap. No "respect for the office" bullshit.
I suppose some staffer might, possibly, listen to the voicemail, some time next week.
--TP
Posted by: Tony P. | March 04, 2025 at 01:45 PM
Better yet, dress like Zelenskyy.
Posted by: wj | March 04, 2025 at 04:01 PM
Zelensky was too respectful -- no baseball cap.
--TP
Posted by: Tony P. | March 04, 2025 at 07:50 PM
I had the speech on very low background since it was just another Trump campaign speech (he really is quite boring), but I did notice that Musk was adorned in a suit complete with tie.
Somebody got to him.
Posted by: bobbyp | March 05, 2025 at 12:52 PM