With bated breath

by liberal japonicus

I don't know about y'all, but I am having that feeling that I get watching a horror movie and not sure who is going to die. I won't try and give you even a short list of what I've been reading, just this

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/20/elon-musk-promises-to-award-1m-every-day-to-voters-as-he-steps-up-campaigning-for-trump

Elon Musk said his Trump-supporting political action committee – America Pac – will give $1m every day until election day to someone who signs his petition that effectively encourages Republicans in the key battleground states to register to vote.

The commitment, which started on Saturday as Musk handed a lottery-style check to the first winner of his contest at a town hall event, could mean Musk is on the hook for $17m if he remains the sole donor to his own Pac.

Maybe a democrat will win it. Or maybe it will be ruled illegal and disqualify Trump (a boy can dream)

There's tons more stuff, but hope that works as a open thread invitation.

Comments

[GftNC]

The role of Musk in this election beggars belief. If Harris wins, and can pass legislation without too much aggro, the repeal (or nullification I suppose) of Citizens United, and all other campaign donation/corruption issues, should be top of the agenda. My anxiety levels about the election are through the roof, although I am trying to keep a lid on them. wj, I read that the pollsters are conducting polls not only via landlines, but also online. Surely that voids the advantage you were talking about? Although God knows I'm hoping not....

[CharlesWT]

...pollsters are conducting polls not only via landlines, but also online.

A problem with online polls is that they are self-selecting rather than random. I answer surveys on political issues and other topics on several survey platforms including YouGov.

[wj]

GftNC, I keep seeing plaints on the general theme of "How can this election even be this close???" With the preferred answer being misogyny. But while there is doubtless some of that going on, I think the question reflects a basic misunderstanding. It isn't that the election (or, rather, voters' intentions) is close; what we see is that the polls are close.

The thing is, IMHO, the polls (for whatever reason you prefer) have been increasingly missing stuff. I think that comes from their likely voter models being flawed. The electorate is changing. The way people respond, or decline to respond, to polling is changing. And the models that connect their tiny sample sizes to huge projections have not kept up.

The polls do seem to get better close to election day. But I harbor a suspicion that this reflects pollsters not being totally isolated from the general population. They get out of their cubicles occasionally. And when they do, they notice that the views of people they meet have shifted, relative to their model, in different ways than in the past. So, close to the end, they put their thumbs on the scale, in the hopes of not missing too badly.

This general phenomena is exacerbated by the fact that Trump was earlier boasting about having gotten Roe overturned. He's backpedaled since, but the video clips are out there. And that will, I expect, have a bigger impact than most people, even those who expect an impact, imagine.

What Musk is doing is reprehensible. But at root it reflects a growing realization that what they thought six months ago would be a walk in the park is looking increasingly like a blowout in the other direction. Musk's behavior is just one of the things that look like panic reactions. Including some that resemble grifters around Trump acting like they've decided that there aren't opportunities in front of them after all. So they're grabbing what they can before the collapse.

Oh, yes. One other thing. A lot of major media outlets have treated Trump with kid gloves all year. Presumably to preserve access during an upcoming Trump administration. But the past couple of weeks, negative stories are increasingly popping up. Even in places like Fox News. It's like they've concluded there won't be a Trump administration to access, and it's time to cut their losses.

All this is, of course, just one observer's take on a necessarily limited view of events. But it's increasingly where I'm at.

P.S. Wow, that got long enough to be a full post. Apologies, lj, for not stepping up with it.

[nous]

If I were part of Harris's media team, I'd be jumping on that move by Musk with a few short vids to the effect of:

"Elon Musks latest stunt is typical of Billionaire thinking, and shows why Republicans have been so bad for the country. He's trying to get hundreds of thousands of people to support him, but only making 17 of those people richer, while the rest of us only get disappointment.

Vote for the candidate who is working give us all more prosperity."

[wj]

I think I'd drop an "even if it was legal" in. But otherwise, yeah.

[Michael Cain]

...the repeal (or nullification I suppose) of Citizens United, and all other campaign donation/corruption issues, should be top of the agenda.

While my interpretation of the Constitution's language and historical case law is that Congress could pass campaign finance restrictions and remove them from judicial review, it would be fascinating to watch the ensuing crisis unfold.

[GftNC]

wj, I only hope you're right.

nous: I only hope the Harris campaign is watching what you say - that sort of approach would be perfect. With an additional "so his message is vote for Trump if you think the richest man in the world should be able to pay to decide the result of the American people's election".

[bobbyp]

What Musk is doing is reprehensible.

....and illegal:

https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2024/10/the-election-fraud-is-coming-from-inside-the-house

but what's new?

[bobbyp]

A problem with online polls is that they are self-selecting rather than random.

Hate to ruin what's left of your day, Charles, but I agree.

Cheers.

[Bobbyp]

Nobody should have the wherewithall to write a check for $75m to a political campaign. Campaign finance restrictions are nice, but that is putting the cart before the horse.

[Bobbyp]

Hope your analysis prevails, wj!

[Snarki, child of Loki]

My proposal, which is mine, is to forget about campaign donation "limits" (until the Supremely Deplorable Six are disposed of) and instead REQUIRE that candidates are tatooed with the name/logo of their donor, in a size proportionate to the donation.

Truth in Labeling, one might call it.

And if the result is that GOPer prez candidates have to endure lots of tatooing pain, covering their *entire body*, so that they have to dress like Darth Vader to hide the extent that they're "bought"? All good.

[Michael Cain]

And if the result is that GOPer prez candidates have to endure lots of tatooing pain...

Harris is outraising Trump by an enormous amount, even when Musk's $75M is included.

[wj]

Harris is outraising Trump by an enormous amount, even when Musk's $75M is included.

On the other hand, it's hard to judge how much will be spent by various PACs. And, in some cases, for which side. Some of them are dutifully avoiding coordinating with the campaign. As required by law. Other PACs are visibility ignoring that restriction. And some we don't know about.

[Michael Cain]

It was a joke. If Trump suffers tattoo pain under Snarki's proposal, Harris's pain will be much worse.

[JanieM]

What would happen if the tattoo requirement was only for big donors? (Defined by ... what cutoff?)

[wj]

Take the maximum allowed donation, say the one for Senate candidates? (I think that's somewhere around $50,000 per year.) Might be a place to start.

[GftNC]

Marina Hyde today:

I still boggle at the utter WTF-ery of Trump and Musk being able to present themselves as rank outsiders oppressed by the elites. “One of the challenges we’re having is, how do we get the public to know about this petition because the legacy media won’t report on it,” whined Musk at the weekend, in comments promptly reported by the legacy media. Also: you own a media platform, shithead – please don’t try to “my struggle” this one. Other looking-glass lunacies include Musk’s regular assertions that Kamala Harris will end democracy, which he makes while appearing to buy votes in support of a man who has already sparked one insurrection and has explicitly promised to be “a dictator” on day one of his presidency.

They say democracy dies in darkness, but it currently appears to be suffering serious breathing issues under full stage lights. In fact, watching Musk go all-out for Trump, it’s hard not to get ominous circle-of-life vibes, and feel like you’re watching the simultaneous live birth of an American oligarchy. There have been vested interests as long as there has been US politics, of course. But no robber baron of the Gilded Age was ever this relatively rich, or as artlessly open about what – and whom – a relatively tiny amount of money can buy.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/22/elon-musk-million-dollars-donald-trump-elected

[russell]

So, we're two weeks out, and it appears to be neck-and-neck.

As long as I live, I will never understand how a rude, vulgar, clownish, entitled asshole like DJT ever came close to any position of public responsibility, let alone POTUS.

The amount of hostility, resentment, and malice displayed by both Trump and his supporters is just astounding. The sheer volume of utter bullshit that he spews is beyond remarkable. It's a toxic cesspool.

If Harris should win, that will not be the end of it. Trump will absolutely not gracefully concede a damned thing.

We are in for a chaotic, calamitous shit show no matter who wins.

This is a seriously damaged country, full of seriously damaged people, willing if not eager to do damage to others. I vacillate between being heartbroken and enraged.

So, yes. Bated breath. Sitting on the edge of my seat, waiting to see exactly how bad it's gonna get.

What the hell is wrong with us.

[Michael Cain]

I got email yesterday telling me my ballot had been collected, verified, and counted. There's nothing more I can do. For the next two weeks I'm going to practice calm in the face of potential disaster. Like the heroine in my granddaughters' fairy tale, when she's having tea with the wyrm.

http://www.mcain6925.com/little_monsters/little-monsters-tea-color.pdf

[wj]

As long as I live, I will never understand how a rude, vulgar, clownish, entitled asshole like DJT ever came close to any position of public responsibility, let alone POTUS.

Fiction can sometimes illuminate something in the real world. If Heinlein had written "The Sound of His Wings" we might have something here. Unfortunately, he considered it too depressing. Wonder why.

[CharlesWT]

"But no robber baron of the Gilded Age was ever this relatively rich, or as artlessly open about what – and whom – a relatively tiny amount of money can buy."

In the early 20th century, U.S. Steel was 2-3% of the U.S. GDP.

[nous]

Oh how I hope that this takes a big old chunk out of the hindquarters of The Doddering Orange Man, What's-His-Name:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/22/trump-ground-game-door-knock-hack-gps

A bootleg how-to-spoof video, made by an America Pac canvasser in Nevada and obtained by the Guardian, shows the apparent ease with which locations can be changed to fake door – knocks.

It calls into question how many Trump voters have actually been reached by the field operation, which uses paid canvassers, not traditional volunteers or campaign staff​.

The video, shared with a few hundred canvassers, walks through the setup: a user downloads a GPS-spoofing app to falsely place themself at the door of a Trump voter, fakes responses to the survey and takes steps to cover up the fraud by varying the survey responses to make it believable.

Would serve them right for hiring low-paid canvassers in place of motivated supporters.

Please. Please. Please! Let this sink Arizona for Arnold Palmer's Junk's Stan.

[hairshirthedonist]

Imagine the outrage if anyone named Clinton, Obama, Biden, or Harris were doing this while running for president.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/17/trump-crypto-project-allows-ex-president-family-to-make-75percent-of-revenue.html

Donald Trump’s crypto project, World Liberty Financial, published a 13-page document Thursday that described its mission and how tokens can be allocated, and that indicated that the Republican presidential nominee and his family could take home 75% of net revenue.

(...)

The paper released Thursday shows that Trump and his family assume no liability. It indicates that none of them are directors, employees, managers or operators of WLF or its affiliates, and said the project and the tokens “are not political and have no affiliation with any political campaign.”

It's classy. (bold mine)

The remaining 25% of net protocol revenue is set to go to Axiom Management Group, or AMG, a Puerto Rico LLC wholly owned by Chase Herro and Zachary Folkman, two of the co-founders.

Folkman previously had a company called Date Hotter Girls and reportedly helped develop crypto project Dough Finance. Herro worked on Dough and launched another crypto trading business a decade ago called Pacer Capital, which appears to now be defunct.

At least there are no conflicts of interest.

The paper calls Trump the “chief crypto advocate.” His three sons are all “Web3 ambassadors.”

This will grab him the votes of another subset of tech bros, not to mention another way to fleece the rubes.

[GftNC]

Another reason to love the Guardian:

Then there is the fact that the billionaire hates the Guardian, which he has described as “the most insufferable newspaper on planet Earth”. If Trump wins a second term and the Elonification of the US gets started, I may well be writing my future columns from a prison on Mars.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/22/elon-musk-is-trying-to-buy-the-us-election-for-donald-trump-what-does-he-want-in-return

[Michael Cain]

But no robber baron of the Gilded Age was ever this relatively rich, or as artlessly open about what – and whom – a relatively tiny amount of money can buy.

But the billionaire tech-bros of today don't get the "Gilded" part of Gilded Age. Eg, Cornelius Vanderbilt's son constructing the Biltmore Mansion near Asheville, NC, with its 250-room main house (~180,000 sq ft, or 4 acres, or 1.6 hectares). The son referred to it as his "little mountain escape". His descendants still own it, making it the largest privately-owned house in the US.

[GftNC]

I think this longish piece by Ezra Klein from the NYT, headlined Whats wrong with Donald Trump? I think there’s an answer. But it’s not age — or, at least, it’s not just age. is worth a read. It's a gift link:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/22/opinion/donald-trump-ezra-klein-podcast.html?unlocked_article_code=1.UU4.Dpup.7b0Lx01Eu8iX&smid=url-share

[liberal japonicus]

that Klein piece is interesting and it provoked a fascinating reaction from two writers over at LGM

Paul Campos
Cheryl Rofer

A bit of a deep dive on why I find this interesting. In regard to the stable of writers at LGM, I generally prefer Rofer's take over the other writers. It's not that they are bad, but I find Rofer to be much calmer. Campos is not bad and his stuff about law school is quite interesting, but he got on a tear about Biden's mental health, though it is a bit complicated in terms of timing. Klein famously was one of the first bloggers to put the question of Biden's age and cognitive abilities front and center and, as Campos observes, that pissed a lot of people at LGM off. Though Campos did raise the issue, it was iirc after commenters were savaged for suggesting that there needed to be a replacement for Biden. Most people, to be honest, discounted Harris, so some sort of reopening of primaries was suggested and this drew the scorn of some of the other writers at LGM. This led to anyone who initially raised the question of Biden's competence being raked over the coals, which included Klein.

Rofer stepped back from the argument, so I'm not positive about how she viewed it, but I was pretty sympathetic as I didn't think it was too useful to beat up on Biden and didn't see how Harris would be able to step up in the way she did.

Anyway, Campos writes that Klein's piece is insightful and praises it, while Rofer really holds it in contempt, as the title "Ezra Klein, Donald Trump Fanboi". Rofer acknowledges Campos' rational appraisal, but then gives an "less rational" opinion, which is that Klein is enthralled with the audaciousness of Trump, which is problematic and she closes with this
And on to January 6. And more of what might be criticism, except for all the love larded in. Ezra would like a life of disinhibition for himself. He explicitly says so in this piece. I don’t even want to think of the longing, the love in his voice on the podcast. I consider this post a content warning. Go to the link and read the full thing, or listen to the podcast at your own risk.

I can connect this to our discussion about Te Nehisi Coates, where he was on Trevor Noah's podcast and discussed how he might be willing to take up violence as a tool if he were a Palestinian.

https://youtu.be/IPbD9PZ5FP4?si=AYce7A0inp0xESsY&t=960

Which had a range of conservatives claim that Coates was a terrorist in a writer's cloak.

Now, clearly, if you listen to what Coates says, the conservatives who are using it as a cudgel are clearly being disingenuous, in a way that Rofer is not. I'm not suggesting that Rofer is seizing on the small point to try and invalidate what Klein says, rather, she is expressing her upset that someone could say that they wanted to be disinhibited like Trump. So it's fascinating to see the tension involved here, where you have to understand the enemy (and yes, I do believe that Trump and his inner circle of supporters are 'the enemy') but you can't go too far. I don't think that Klein does that (he is certainly not suggesting that we get a democratic candidate who is as disinhibited as Trump), but it bears observing.

Incidentally, Klein is, depending how you count, a degree or two of separation from here. I remember Hilzoy writing about him here
https://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2006/09/sprezzatura.html

which led to a discussion of sock-puppetry and identity.

[nous]

I think that Klein is right insofar as a lot of the verbal things that people point to as being a sign of The Gilded Crapper losing his mental acuity are not anything of the sort. He's not, in most of those moments, scrambling to remember a thread, he's just bullshitting and trying to fill the giant vacuole of his core insecurity with the adulation of his followers. He rambles and says outrageous things, they fill him with their cheers, he feels handsome and powerful for a span of seconds before his massive insecurity starts to eat at him again.

Klein gets the first part of that, and sees it as something that his followers clearly value and want to see in a politician. I just think he misses that second part - the insecurity - because he says stuff like this:

If you want to see Trump lose the 2024 election, that answer is perfect. If you want to see him win it — which he does, which his staff does — that answer is insane. The man cannot help himself. He is missing the part of his mind that tells him what not to say, what not to do. He may be cunning and intuitive. He may know how to work a room and command a crowd. He may know how to spy the weakness in another person and dominate them. But he cannot control himself.

I don't think he actually knows how to work a room or command a crowd, or how to spy a weakness and dominate them. I think he knows one way of being, and has had enough fortune in his life to find his way in front of the sort of weak people who he can dominate. And if his One Weird Trick doesn't work on you, well, then he is SOL.

Klein gives him too much credit.

And I also think that because Klein is attuned to seeing this symbiosis that The Gilded Crapper and his horde have, and sees the way that his rhetoric functions in that environment, that Klein has missed the actual signs of declining mental acuity that are laced into the monologs. He's not being senile when he dishes and riffs on the size of Palmer's unit, he's being senile when he circles back to the same name and the same comment about who that person is and what they have done less than a minute after having already said the same thing.

I think that if the media were more careful in what they pointed to as the obvious signs of Old Man Fibber's reduced acuity, they would cut through more with undecided voters. In this sense I think Klein is correct to say that most of the crazy shit Old Man Fibber talks has been a feature of his persona for years, and that it will not be read as the danger sign of a mind with reduced capacity.

But the signs are there. I can't remember if it was Colbert or Stewart that caught it and riffed on it successfully on Monday, but one of them nailed it, and it stuck.

The other thing that I think bears saying is that his 30 minute musical interlude makes sense to me not as a moment of senility (though his fixation on Ave Maria may well have been a sign of that) but rather the sign of a deeply insecure man who was in a room full of people who were willing to grant him anything he wished, and him at once basking in that adulation, and also seeing just how far he could push that approval before they began to push back - and not finding that limit. I believe that he was sitting up there thinking to himself "I can't believe they are letting me get away with this," and feeling powerful and loved, and needing that like a heroin fix because otherwise he is an empty fucking husk of a human.

[Snarki, child of Loki]

I've heard that even in the depths of dementia, people can still connect to the music they love.

So that 39 minutes of Trump grooving to the oldies is perhaps the most admirable thing he's done.

Low bar.

[hairshirthedonist]

Musk and the Husk: The Decline and Fall of Civilization

[CaseyL]

At this point, none of the people who will vote for Trump actually care about the state of his mind.

His cultists love him, unreservedly and without criticism. He is exactly what they wish they were: they live vicariously through him.

The fascists, kleptocrats, fundamentalists and white supremacists see him as the vehicle to the power they want. They might actually be happy that he's coming completely undone mentally because he'll be that much easier to manage while Vance and the parasites in the back room do the actual ruling.

[GftNC]

Damn you, lj, for sending me down a hilzoy rabbit hole! It was interesting though, on early Klein and her judicious opinion. And, as usual, I missed her long form presence acutely.

Re Klein, I thought his piece was pretty good, in particular his emphasis on the disinhibition stuff which in my opinion is increasing, but also in my opinion almost certainly age-related. And I agree with nous when he says "the signs are there". To me, one unmistakeable sign is his reduced vocabulary. His constant use of the words "special" "perfect" and "beautiful" to denote anything he feels favourable towards, and "rough" "radical" and "bad" to denote stuff he hates or knows is unacceptably violent (in the case of rough), along with "nice" and "not nice" to denote anything to do with normal and appropriate behaviour, have made them almost the only adjectives he uses. Some might say this is a deliberate tactic to talk down to the people he considers much of his uneducated base, but I absolutely don't buy it. When you look at video of how he used to talk when he was younger, the difference is stark. It is obvious cognitive deterioration. And I have to admit that I feel a lot of my vocabulary is going AWOL with age as well, so I am rather familiar with the phenomenon of wanting to say something, and casting around for some other way to say it with words which, although not perfect, come more readily in the moment.

[Snarki, child of Loki]

I know what you mean GftNC.

Oh, for those long ago days, when packs of the all-powerful Thesaurus roamed the Earth, and tiny-brained primates cowered in ditches of meager vocabulary.

[hairshirthedonist]

From a commenter named Shirley0401 at lj's Paul Campos LGM link:

If he wins, there are going to be a whole lot of people who thought they were mostly voting for cheap gas and a tax cut who will be shocked how quickly things just fundamentally stop working in this country within the next four years.

I really think if The Incredible Husk (riffing on nous's description again) wins, there is going to be massive civil unrest once he starts enacting the worst parts of his agenda. He's going to do horrible things that a largish minority of the people in this country will not stand for. The Husk's Brownshirts are going to have a fight on their hands and it won't be good for anyone.

If Harris wins, a few people here and there will get pissy, particularly right after the election, but she's not going to fundamentally change our system of government and the function of society. Things aren't that bad now. We generally have peace and order. There's no reason to think that's going to change much under Harris, even if the illegals in prison get their sex changes.

[bobbyp]

I agree HSH. I would opine further that if that F*cker wins, the Senate flips, and the House remains in GOP hands, that we will have a true tipping point into some kind of authoritarianism. Under those circumstances, I foresee the Senate filibuster thrown in the trash, the passage of right wing fever dreams legislation, corruption beyond all comprehension, and the savage stomping of our freedoms.

People thought the 60's and early 70's were bad? Well we ain't seen nothing yet.

It can happen here.

[bobbyp]

Ezra Klein-I'm currently reading his book, "Why We Are Polarized". Interesting stuff. It was published a couple of years ago...perhaps some of you have read it also? What did you think?

[Donald]

I thought the Klein piece was good. He was only praising the few times Trump’s spouting off actually was accurate— a Republican wasn’t supposed to say the Iraq War was wrong. That doesn’t mean Trump was honest about his own position or about anything. It is just that once in a while his lack of inhibition leads him to say things one wishes that other politicians would say.

I read the LGM blog sometimes. There are some good pieces. Other times they seem determined to blast anyone and everyone who is either 2 inches to their left or right. It’s tiresome. (And yeah, I blast people too, but usually there is some war crime somewhere in the vicinity setting me off.)

[Donald]

Just read the two LGM pieces. I thought the Campos one was good , while Rofer mistook analysis for admiration.

Another lesson in how one should be cautious in taking a secondhand account of what someone else said at face value.

[GftNC]

James Carville with a hopeful message from the NYT, a gift link:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/opinion/kamala-harris-win-election.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Uk4.8oyv.ydEnveR1tuTT&smid=url-share

[hairshirthedonist]

I hope he's right.

[liberal japonicus]

Maybe it is just a quirk of my feed, but has Mascara Man (i.e. JD Vance) sort of vanished from view? I wonder if he is hoping that Trump will win, but his behavior in these last few days will let him invoke the 25th Amendment.

[Michael Cain]

Maybe it is just a quirk of my feed, but has Mascara Man (i.e. JD Vance) sort of vanished from view?

He seems to be racing around to do multiple events in all of the swing states, but not making any new outlandish statements. Let's be honest. "Sen. Vance made three stops in Wisconsin. At each he repeated the campaign's standard talking points. He did not take questions." is not front page news at this point in this cycle.

[wj]

I wonder if he is hoping that Trump will win, but his behavior in these last few days will let him invoke the 25th Amendment.

My guess is that succeeding Trump fairly quickly has been the plan from the very beginning. Whether via Trump's unhealthy eating and lifestyle overall catching up to him, or via the 25th Amendment, or something else. (Note to Trump if elected, a food taster might be a useful addition to the inner circle.)

Vance as some pretty repugnant ideas that he's spouted off from time. But how many are his own, and how many he owes to Peter Thiel, is hard to tell. It does appear that Thiel is the one currently fulfilling Vance's apparent need to a leader to follow. But how readily that focus can be shifted is hard to say. I suspect that one of Trump's sons expects to take over the power-behind-the-throne position. But given their demonstrated incompetence, I doubt that will work out for him.

[nous]

Hmm - just got chased back to the Ezra Klein piece by some responses to him that were taking him to task for being too dismissive of the danger that the Husk poses, complete with quotes from Klein.

In context, those quotes don't seem nearly as empty of worry as they do when viewed in isolation as pull-quotes, and therein lies a big part of the bullshit wrought upon us by our media environment. His piece is not a written piece, it's a transcript of a podcast. It is composed as extemporaneous verbal rhetoric and follows the patterns and conventions of that genre, but then gets published as if it is a longer think-piece, but it lacks the sort of revision that should go into a written op-ed.

And then, when excerpted for a pull-quote, he comes of sounding as if he's being a glib little jerk playing devil's advocate, and circulated as such, his provocative framing ends up functioning as a low-key endorsement of the "what could be so bad?" thoughts of the undecided voters.

This is how information gets flattened out and turned into a porridge of disinformation and noise. The misleading framing gets reproduced and circulated endlessly, while the substance, the signal, the "difference that makes a difference" gets ignored.

Fighthing this fight with my class right now, who just don't know how to read and reread, and put things into context. But it's not just the youth, it's shot all through society.

And it's killing us.

[Michael Cain]

@nous... One of the things that has depressed me for at least the last 30 years is the apparent effort by TPTB to do away with reading at all, and force everyone to just watch the (crappy, or at least limited) video.

[Cheez Whiz]

Ah, another think piece on What Makes Donald Trump Tick. Klein's monologue would have been insightful in 2016 or so, but it's just a restatement of liberal conventional wisdom at this point. The use of occasional vaguely positive worda like "magnetic" and "disinhibited" triggered the LGM commentariat who have been hammered with DOOM posts about Trump for years across the liberal blogosphere, at this point almost hourly. As that political philosopher Ted Nugent once sang, "the stakes are high, and so am I, it's in the air tonight its a Free For All".

[novakant]

Kamala got Beyonce now, that should help a bit with young people:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2024/oct/24/kamala-harris-beyonce-houston-rally-abortion-rights

On the other hand, it probably won't be enough to counter the disenchantment caused by her move to the centre - and beyond, the Cheneys really? Reminds me of Obama praising Reagan and Blair Thatcher, yikes: (gift link)

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/24/us/politics/kamala-harris-progressives-democrats.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Uk4.n9Ij.8Y_jtZGq-C-v&smid=url-share

[Donald]

Quotes out of context are a longstanding way of misrepresenting people. In the past it was always done to people considered to be on the extremes, and of course it still is, but nowadays, with social media, everybody has their own little in-group (if they want one) and can play this game with anyone who is in the out-group.

So with Coates, he is portrayed as some wild-eyed extremist who "admits" he would have murdered people on Oct 7, nevermind that he actually has said repeatedly that he thinks such actions are destructive even for the cause they ostensibly support--do you want to live under the rule of people who planned atrocities? Ostensibly more sophisticated people try to dismiss him on ostensibly more sophisticated grounds, as Pamela Paul (gag) did in the NYT today. (Not wasting a gift link on her.)

But this is less effective than it used to be. It still works on people in the in-group--if you want to see Coates dismissed, you can find the arguments you need to dismiss him. But everybody gets to play these days, at least on the internet.

I think the attacks on Klein are just uninteresting. He doesn't like Trump. Now if people want to disagree with his theory about why Trump is popular with some, that's fine. I suspect there are various reasons. I have seen a few on the far left who are Trump-sympathetic, which I find grotesque, but I understand what is motivating them while still thinking the stance they take is really really stupid. Their motivation is basically one of the ones Klein mentions--he says things that need to be said that other politicians don't say. He also says things nobody should ever say. He's a moron, among other things.

[novakant]

he says things that need to be said that other politicians don't say.

Could you please give us some examples. (I don't doubt you, there have been some UK lefties supporting Brexit...)

[Hartmut]

Vance is claiming that His Orangeness is healthier than he is.
This of course led to numerous mockings in comment threads.

[Tony P.]

I am worried about PA. This Eli Yoder guy is a "born-again Christian" who proudly worships an Orange Jesus. But he is ex-Amish and still has ties to that world, so I take this report of his seriously.

I always thought that religion would be the undoing of the USofA, but I hardly expected the Amish to be the ones delivering the coup de grace.

--TP

[Donald]

“ Could you please give us some examples”

Klein gave one of them. Trump has often portrayed himself as an opponent of the Iraq War, which I gather wasn’t really true at the time. But anyway, in his first campaign he openly criticized Bush and other Republicans for the Iraq War when among Republicans it was taboo to do that.

He once defended Putin by saying that we were killers too. This upset a lot of people but many lefties ( me included) thought he had a point about us, For me that is hardly a reason to support Trump. He says something truthful and outrageous once in a while. So give him a radio show or a podcast.

Some on the left think he is less likely to blunder into a war with Russia as well. They also like the fact that some neocons hate Trump. I think Trump is so unstable nobody whether friend or foe can be sure what he will do.

So Trump occasionally has said leftist sounding things but he ended the Iranian nuclear deal and started US policy down the road that helped lead to Oct 7. Biden followed the same road, but Trump is worse.

I don’t know what Harris stands for. Biden and Trump both strike me as utter disasters on foreign policy. But Trump as fascist seems plausible.

[wj]

Some on the left think he [Trump] is less likely to blunder into a war with Russia as well.

Of course. You don't blunder into a war after you unconditionally surrender.

[GftNC]

the disenchantment caused by her move to the centre - and beyond, the Cheneys really?

Oh for God's sake. Yes, really. Anybody who doesn't understand that she needs to do this in order to beat Trump is beyond help. And let's hope more young people (or young women at least) have the sense to pay attention instead to women's rights, abortion etc.

He says something truthful and outrageous once in a while.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day (possibly archaic).

[wj]

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day (possibly archaic).

Perhaps we could substitute "Even a stopped calendar is right once a year.". Closer to Trump's running average as well.

[liberal japonicus]

This is where things could go off the rails, so I'd just step in to observe that though I'm not shouting for joy that Harris has brought in Liz Cheney, I have to acknowledge that it's not like pulling up a chair with 'Vice' (GW's nickname for Dick Cheney). I've also got to acknowledge that Liz Cheney broke with Trump publically immediately after Jan 6, though it would have been nicer if she figured this out in 2016.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/cheney-trump-house-impeach/2021/01/12/648c677a-54d2-11eb-a08b-f1381ef3d207_story.html

For me, I'm not going to begrudge Harris from doing rallies with Cheney. I also find it interesting that Cheney comments about 'not having to tell anyone how you voted' A large number of Republicans are voting early, I'm hoping and praying that they are people who might publically say they are for Trump, but are voting for Harris.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/22/politics/liz-cheney-kamala-harris-gop-women/index.html

[novakant]

I get that Harris needs to appeal to a broad spectrum of voters, but - policy and values aside - alienating one side is a risky strategy that can fail and has failed before. E.g. Arab voters in Michigan:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/24/michigan-democrats-failed-gaza-voices-from-the-swing-states

[novakant]

Also, Cheney wasn't the main point of my post or the NYT article but rather this:

they worry that Ms. Harris — like Hillary Clinton in 2016 — is falling into a trap of banking on liberal voters without offering significant policy change.

Let's hope for the best.

[Hartmut]

The GOP - shameless as always - targets Jews with ads of the basic content 'Harris is a Hamas lover and Jew hater' and Arabs with 'Harris is an Arab hater and pawn of the Jews'. Their own base is of course targeted with not-so-subtle antisemitic and anti-Muslim content and His Orangeness has already blamed The Jews preemptively for losing the election.
That's something the original Nazis pioneered btw - targeted fine-tailored campaigns with completely contradictory content in each section (correctly) assuming that the marks would not notice. Most blatant: in some Eastern parts of the Reich they campaigned in Polish while hatred of Poles was a staple of their campaigns in the West with emphasis on 'They are here illegally and steal your bread [= your working income by taking your jobs]'. Also Hitler used a plane (sponsored by rich donors) to have three rallies per day in different cities while the opposition went by rail and rarely managed more than 1 per day. Iirc Goebbels took lessons in professional marketing (while his boss took acting lessons and practiced in front of a mirror). They would feel right at home in the modern campaigning environment (although the internet would probably take some time to get used too). And they would still be baffled about HOW shameless the lying can get without consequences to-day.

[hairshirthedonist]

My wife suggested this morning, after see the ad with the older Jewish women in the diner discussing how they don't feel safe and are voting for tRump because of it, that the Harris campaign should air and ad with a snippet from the tRump ad (probably not legal) juxtaposed with the Husk saying there were fine people on both sides in Charlottesville and a clip of the neo-Nazis chanting, "Jews will not replace us!"

I can't find the words to describe what I'm thinking anymore. The unreality has blown a chip in my head.

[hairshirthedonist]

Not a diner, but a deli.

‘I will never set foot there again’: Jewish Dems boycott Hymie’s deli in Philly after Trump ad

https://forward.com/fast-forward/667261/jewish-deli-trump-ad-hymies/

I'll be curious to see if the boycott is of any significance or isn't offset by a boost in MAGA tourism.

[novakant]

Ok, this is funny:

Meet the Pennsylvania nuns falsely accused of voter fraud

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/25/politics/benedictine-sisters-of-erie-pennsylvania-election-fraud-viral/index.html

[wj]

"they worry that Ms. Harris — like Hillary Clinton in 2016 — is falling into a trap of banking on liberal voters without offering significant policy change."
...
I get that Harris needs to appeal to a broad spectrum of voters, but - policy and values aside - alienating one side is a risky strategy that can fail and has failed before.

I'm not really seeing Harris ignoring liberal voters here. Or alienating them -- unless you think that the mere fact of being on the same stage with Cheney, and having Cheney agree with her is somehow alienating. It's not like Harris sat there and agreed with Cheney on anything beyond Trump being a threat to the nation.

As for offering a significant policy change, there's pretty narrow limits on how far a sitting VP can go on disagreeing with the President's policies. A small difference in emphasis is about all. Someone who wants Harris to stand up and denounce something Biden is doing isn't living in the real world. (Which, admittedly, some may not be.)

[wj]

Meet the Pennsylvania nuns falsely accused of voter fraud.

Canvasser obviously not a Catholic. An evangelical, perhaps? It would be irresponsible not to speculate.

[novakant]

The scary thing is that a tweet like this gets 2.7 million views and 13.4k reposts

https://x.com/Maloney/status/1848839851451302193

[wj]

Gotta wonder how many of those were bots, some based in Moscow. Seems to be a lot of that going on.

[GftNC]

I can't find the words to describe what I'm thinking anymore. The unreality has blown a chip in my head.

Me too, hsh, me too.

[novakant]

Someone who wants Harris to stand up and denounce something Biden is doing isn't living in the real world. (Which, admittedly, some may not be.)

So how do you get e.g. a US-Palestinian from Dearborne, whose extended family is being bombed to bits with US supplied weapons at the moment, to vote Democrat?

Maybe not at all, but you can try and then it's about the tone and signaling - and the Harris campaign isn't very good at it, just as Clinton wasn't (from the NYT link above):

“The tent is big enough for a guy who got us into a war with Iraq, and then the tent is not big enough for a Palestinian to speak for two minutes on the D.N.C. stage,” said Ms. Joshi, contrasting the endorsement of Ms. Harris by Ms. Cheney’s father, former Vice President Dick Cheney, with the Democratic Party’s decision not to invite a Palestinian American to speak at its national convention.

[wj]

So how do you get e.g. a US-Palestinian from Dearborne, whose extended family is being bombed to bits with US supplied weapons at the moment, to vote Democrat?

I'm not sure that you can do more than hope he is smart enough to know that Trump would flat out push Bibi (which wouldn't take a push so much as permission) for outright total genocide in Gaza.

[Hartmut]

Why bother with an election in the first place?
House Freedom Caucus Chief calls on North Carolina to use the hurricane damage as a pretense to allocate the electoral votes to Trump before the election even takes place.

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/freedom-caucus-chief-maybe-nc-award-electors-votes-are-counted-rcna177343

[nous]

I have a Ph.D. in rhetoric, and several years of work experience as a conflict negotiator, and I'm not convinced that there is a message with the proper tone that can appease the various factions of the big tent coalition that we are expecting Harris to unite. And I cannot think of a single US political figure in a prominent position in the last 40 years that would be able to manage this task - especially given the sorts of tools that the trolls have at their disposal to stoke resentment and erode consensus.

It seems like a thing that other countries' politicians are also struggling with.

It seems like a lot to ask, and to expect. Is it too much?

How does one say "this situation is intolerable, but there is nothing we can do right now that won't make things worse because we just don't have that sort of leverage"? Is it even wise to say such a thing out loud?

[GftNC]

Maybe not at all, but you can try and then it's about the tone and signaling - and the Harris campaign isn't very good at it, just as Clinton wasn't (from the NYT link above)

This comprehensively misses the point, which is that she is threading the eye of a tiny, tiny needle: she knows the truth is that by having Cheney or Clinton or Obama talk she alienates some few possible voters, but attracts many others, whereas the calculation regarding the Palestinian cause is completely different. Of course many (particularly the engaged young) care passionately about Palestinian rights, but they also care passionately about abortion so that balances out the votes. She is not signalling her moral or ethical values, novakant, she is trying to beat Trump, and for all our sakes we must hope she succeeds.

tldr: what nous said.

[GftNC]

Meanwhile, and to emphasise yet again how important it is to beat the Orange Menace:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/25/elon-musk-has-been-in-regular-contact-with-putin-for-two-years-say-reports

[wj]

How does one say "this situation is intolerable, but there is nothing we can do right now that won't make things worse because we just don't have that sort of leverage"? Is it even wise to say such a thing out loud?

I think it would be wise, at some point, to say exactly that. (Although I really don't think that this is that point.). Far too many people apparently are under the impression that the President can do anything, if only (s)he can be persuaded to act. Whether it is lowering gas prices, redirecting hurricanes, or creating peace in the Middle East.

Correcting that idea is actually really, really important. It is also extremely difficult. There will always be some who prefer fantasies of magically powerful god-emperors. But seriously reducing the numbers would do the nation a world of good.

The knee jerk response is "improve public education!". But while that is a good idea in and of itself, I don't think it will be sufficient. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what would be.

[Donald]

My assumption is that Harris is just as bad as Biden, though I harbor a faint hope she isn’t. I say this because she says she wouldn’t do anything different and have no reason to disbelieve her. I hope she is lying.

I don’t get upset that she is campaigning with the Cheneys because on foreign policy I don’t see a moral distinction between her boss Biden and Dick Cheney.

I don’t agree with nous that Biden is really trying to get Bibi to stop killing civilians. That issue is dead last on his priority list. It wouldn’t be on it at all if Gaza got the same level of attention as Yemen did.

Biden is supporting Bibi because he agrees with many of his goals. He wants Hamas out of power and Hezbollah out of power. The Biden Administration openly supported the war in Lebanon once it looked like Hezbollah was getting its ass kicked and for whatever reason isn’t launching its missile arsenal all at once to take out Israel’s civilian infrastructure. Either they can’t do it or they are afraid to do it. Biden wants Iran weakened as well. His long term goal is the same as Tom Friedman’s— a glorious alliance between the Saudis and Israel against Iran. Bonesaw has to pretend to care about the Palestinians to keep his people happy, so he demands a 2ss and so Biden and his people talk about some wonderful future for the Palestinians, as if they care about the good wishes of the one who is killing them.

Anyway, the civilian death toll is embarrassing and might threaten Harris’s chances, but they are hoping to win a few Muslim voters and maybe enough Republicans to make up for it.

If they really cared about civilians they would stop making excuses for virtually every single atrocity. I couldn’t tell you how many times I have seen Miller or Patel saying the same thing every week in response to questions about some atrocity that week. They always say they are asking Israel for more information and are waiting for the investigation to play out, etc…I don’t need a degree in rhetoric to understand the message— we are pretending the Israeli government is acting in good faith and we will never admit otherwise. This is the opposite of pressure. It is permission to keep doing what they are doing and we will cover for them.

They would like Israel to be more precise, but it doesn’t matter if they aren’t.

I want Trump to lose because he is a fascist, denies global warming,is narcissistic even by politician standards, is unstable and might do anything. But Biden and Blinken should be in prison.

[Snarki, child of Loki]

For your enjoyment, from Balloon Juice:
https://balloon-juice.com/2024/10/25/unlike-the-la-times-washington-post-muslims-in-palestine-take-a-stand/

[novakant]

Oh great, now they're striking Tehran. Biden should and could have stopped this long ago, but he didn't want to. At least he will not be president much longer.

[nous]

I don’t agree with nous that Biden is really trying to get Bibi to stop killing civilians.

My actual position on this is that Biden would certainly like to get Netanyahu to stop killing quite so many civilian as has been done, but that this is a lower priority for Biden than preserving the alliance between the US and the Israeli government. I don't think that Biden likes the moral messiness of excess civilian deaths, and he certainly doesn't like the way that those deaths are eroding Harris's election chances, but he's not going to act on those worries in a way that creates a rift between him and Netanyahu.

Biden wants a cease fire. Biden doesn't want an escalation. He's caught between two parties that he cannot control. I can recognize that and the weak position that we are in for at least the short-term without venturing too far into trying to guess Biden's true feelings and motivations. Whether or not he is twisted up inside over the civilian death toll, he's not in a strong position to change the circumstances. There are too many other things hanging in the balance that matter more to him.

Which does not strike me as a defense of Biden, or his motives, or his morals. It's just a tactical assessment of his position in these matters.

[GftNC]

Not to compare in any way, but since this is an open thread, in other bad news RIP Phil Lesh. I was never a deadhead, but I once saw them live, and Workingman's Dead and American Beauty were foundational albums of my youth, and I still occasionally listen to them today.

I don't know why, but I somehow get a sense that the Dead may not be the kind of band that many ObWiers are/were into. I'd be interested to know if that's right, if anyone wanted to comment.

[wj]

Biden should and could have stopped this long ago, but he didn't want to.

I'd agree that Biden should have spoken out against it.

But there's simply no way he could have stopped it. Bibi wants needs a war -- that's all that's keeping him out of jail. Israel has sufficient resources in hand to fight for quite a while, without anything further from the US at all. (And if Trump were to win, that wouldn't be a problem long.)

Our cutting off aid would send shockwaves thru the Israeli public. But the existing government doesn't have to call elections any time soon. And the RWNJs in his coalition are fine with what he's doing for reasons of their own.

So, we don't have leverage to force Netanyahu to stop. Short of bombing them ourselves....

[CharlesWT]

1.2% isn't good enough odds for me to preemptively order another pallet of popcorn.

"There's a ~1.2% chance of an electoral college tie.

If that happens, the House elects the President by state delegation. Currently, the Republicans control 26 state delegations, but it's the new House that votes. Republicans are a lock for at least 24 delegations, but you need 26.

If there's an EC tie and the Republicans control 25 or fewer delegations in January, we just won't have a President. You have to be a top-3 electoral vote-getter to be elected, and there will likely only be 2 electoral vote-getters, and neither party will vote for the other, so it's possible we could just have four years of presidential vacancy.

The Senate selects the VP more straightforwardly, so unless Democrats surprisingly clean up in the Senate races, JD Vance would become Acting President. A tie in the Senate would be broken by Harris electing Walz to be VP and Acting President."
Eli Dourado

[Donald]

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-09-02/ty-article-magazine/.premium/without-u-s-aid-israel-would-have-struggled-to-fight-in-gaza-beyond-a-few-months/00000191-aec2-d875-a3bb-aed7e2e30000

Look at the headline. We weren’t pouring weapons into Israel because they didn’t need them. In a few years we might not have leverage but we have it now. Or had it. This close to an election Bibi has the leverage. Biden should have insisted on a precise war a year ago and backed it up with a serious threat of weapons cutoffs.

On Biden’s inner life on this, I think he always benefited politically from being pro Israel and the accompanying attitudes and can’t adjust.

Nous— I don’t think of you as a Biden apologist, but I think he did have more power in this relationship. He threw it away with his bear hug theory. An article ( can’t remember where it was) spoke about how he was in the early months quite proud of this theory of his and felt it was working quite well.

On a minor point, I just read that the LA times publisher’s decision to block an endorsement of Harris was about Gaza. I don’t approve of rich people controlling the newspapers they own , but sympathize with the reason. That said, are there really people who are influenced by newspaper endorsements for Presidents? Sort of a tempest in a teapot, except one doesn’t like to see rich people throwing their weigt around like that whether or not one likes the motive.

I doubt Bezos has any humanitarian motives behind his decision.

[wj]

I doubt Bezos has any humanitarian motives behind his decision.

Sorry, you're unlikely to win any sucker bets here.

On a minor point, I just read that the LA times publisher’s decision to block an endorsement of Harris was about Gaza.

As for the LA Times, as I understand it the publisher is a fellow South African and buddy of Musk's. Which makes motives involve Gaza seem rather less likely.

[novakant]

there's simply no way he could have stopped it.

I disagree:

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/16/middleeast/where-israel-get-its-weapons/index.html

The US-imported weapons “have played a major role in Israel’s military actions against Hamas and Hezbollah ...
CNN analysis has identified multiple instances that US-manufactured munitions were used throughout the war, including in strikes that killed civilians. ... In 2019, the two countries signed a Memorandum of Understanding that ensured the US would annually provide Israel with $3.3 billion from the Foreign Military Financing program, and another $500 million for missile defense.

[novakant]

Stopping this military support, combined with actually and publicly cutting off the "ironclad support" of Israel on the diplomatic front (instead of just making grumpy phone calls once in a while) until a ceasefire is agreed, would have been enough pressure.

[Donald]

The source on the LA Times Gaza connection is the publisher’s daughter and her X account. She is a pro Palestinian activist.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/la-times-presidential-endorsement-decision-owners-daughter-weighs-in-1236045376/

I will try pasting part of her X comments in the next post.

[Donald]

I will paste below. I left out the first part,where she inaccurately implies that the editorial board came to this conclusion.

Here she is———

The temptation is to speak in muffled tones about an issue the international courts have called a plausible genocide. But this moment requires opposition to crimes against humanity, ethnic cleansing, and Apartheid – as my parents did in South Africa.

Nika Soon-Shiong 🇵🇸
@nikasoonshiong
·
Oct 25
For my family, Apartheid is not a vague concept. My father was an emergency surgeon at Baragwanath Hospital in Soweto. He treated students shot by the police during the Soweto Uprisings – where 176 died protesting the brutal system of racial segregation.

Nika Soon-Shiong 🇵🇸
@nikasoonshiong
·
Oct 25
Apartheid was not just a political project. It was a profitable one, underpinned by lobbyists in Washington, US defense contracts, and an international market for weapons, diamonds, and gold.

Many US news organizations and politicians were complicit.

[Donald]

Israel decided to do a wrist slap, which is what Iran’s previous attacks were. Maybe that will be the end of that.

I would give Biden some possible credit here. He didn’t want to be dragged into a full scale war with Iran and Israel would probably need our help with that, so maybe on something like this Biden genuinely put his foot down.

Or so I guess.

[GftNC]

Donald, that's fascinating re the owner of the LA Times. I had clocked his name when he acquired it, and just assumed he was originally from somewhere like Singapore, HK or Taiwan. Stupid assumption.

[wj]

Stopping this military support, combined with actually and publicly cutting off the "ironclad support" of Israel on the diplomatic front (instead of just making grumpy phone calls once in a while) until a ceasefire is agreed, would have been enough pressure.

The thing is, I doubt that it would have been enough to move Netanyahu. Doesn't mean it shouldn't have been done, necessarily. Just that it wouldn't have worked.

Although, if Donald's report is correct, Biden may have managed to inhibit the size of the Isreali strike. The man's ability to persuade, whether with opposing Congressmen or foreign leaders, is amazing.

[Hartmut]

Israel decided to do a wrist slap, which is what Iran’s previous attacks were. Maybe that will be the end of that.

Bibi has to draw it out and leave some escalation options. Mere tit-for-tat will buy him some extra time.

[Michael Cain]

It's an open thread and this is a joke...

I kept all three granddaughters yesterday. Granddaughter #1 is easy, I can loan her my iPad and she'll keep herself busy for hours. Granddaughter #2 is not so easy, but can keep herself occupied so long as I suggest things from time to time and provide encouragement. Granddaughter #3 is a two-year-old terrorist. Since grandpa-drawn illustrations for birthdays seems to have become a tradition -- amazing how little time that took -- I'm thinking of a "National Three-Year-Olds Liberation Front" terrorist drawing for granddaughter #3's next.

[JanieM]

two-year-old terrorist

That's a tautology. ;-)

I am laughing out loud at your comment, Michael.

[CharlesWT]

Children are the perpetual invasion of barbarians who have to be civilized.

[wj]

two-year-old terrorist

Just keep telling yourself that you are bigger, faster, and stronger. Which almost makes up for having far less stamina.

[liberal japonicus]

about the LATimes non-endorsement and owner Patrick Soon-Shiong's daughter's assertions, it's not really clear if what she is saying is true or if it is wishful thinking. There is a NYTimes behind the paywall.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/26/us/los-angeles-times-endorsement-soon-shiong.html

LGM has these details
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2024/10/ny-times-tries-to-sanewash-patrick-soon-shiongs-capitulation-to-trump

If the LATimes editor really wanted to put pressure, he could have written something explaining the reason for withholding the endorsement, which would have been much more powerful than what was there. This LATimes piece describing the non-endorsement
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2024-10-25/latimes-no-presidential-endorsement-decison-resignations

makes no mention of it.

[russell]

Chickenshits.

They understand what's going on, they just don't want to take a position.

If they think they aren't going to be touched by it, I think they're mistaken.

[wj]

Basically, if Trump wins, and your paper or any of your columnists have ever said anything negative about him, you are the enemy. Probably, if you didn't endorse him every time, you are the enemy. Which means pretty much every media outlet, newspaper, radio, TV (including Fox), or podcast -- you are already the enemy.

Which makes not endorsing not only cowardly but stupid. It's long past too late for that to do any good.

[Cheez Whiz]

Soon-Shiong's explanation (in a link to an Xcretion in the LGM post) makes even less sense than Willis at the Post's "independence" bafflegab. Rather than follow his instructions to do a side-by-side comparison of the candidates, the board "elected" to be neutral. Yeah, right. The fig leaves grow more tattered by the day. The daughter was virtue posing, nothing more and doesn't deserve attention.

There's a widespread belief that any value in a US/Israel alliance is manifestly not worth the ongoing slaughter, and ending it would have no serious repercussions to stability in the Middle East or elsewhere. I've seen no argument for this, simply endless assertion, so I dunno if it makes any sense or not.