Where do these people come from?

by liberal japonicus

Another open thread, the other seems to be I/P and vaccinations, but I'm listening to some things and these two prompted the question above

This first one is an interview of/discussion with Emily Jashinsky by Ezra Klein
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXTjqaTQpYg&t=2509s

One comment that sums up my take "This lady keeps saying things are 'rooted in something real' and the something keeps turning out to be racism". I have to assume that form of an interview rather than a written piece allows enough wiggle room, but unfortunately, some interviews have transcripts, like this one

Inez Stepman: ...But Emily, why don’t you tell us initially, since you wrote about this extensively at The Federalist, what are some of the things that people might not expect that are in this package [Bipartisan Infrastructure Law]? If they’re thinking infrastructure, what are some of the things that you think are the most pernicious elements of this?

Emily Jashinsky:

Universal basic income for illegal immigrants, which is a real thing that this bill does. It’s under the very false label of an expanded child tax credit, which no serious person in the media should use as a label for what the policy actually is. It is direct cash payments to parents with no means testing that, actually, illegal immigrants will qualify under the language that’s currently in the bill. Maybe that’ll change, but whether or not that applies to illegal immigrants, that is an incredibly radical policy that will really, really change our relationship fundamentally with the federal government if parents are relying on monthly direct deposits into their bank accounts from the federal government, all parents. It doesn’t matter. It’s all parents, and that’s a huge, huge change for us as a society and as a culture.

Wow, just wow. In the interview with Klein, she talks about how the DACA was the starting point for this new Right. It's telling to me that a stopgap program that kicked the question of people who entered the US as children, and for the large majority, have no experience living in the country they would have been sent back to, is cited as a flashpoint for every racist to crawl out from under his or her rock.

Our second example is Daniella Pletka sitting in for David Brooks. I get that they have to have the right leaning commentator but Pletka seemed off the rails, she first argued that Biden had all the tools to deal with the border so therefore, he's responsible for the current state of affairs, with nary a word about Trump sinking the immigration bill. And then she goes on a rant about Ukraine and Biden's lack of leadership and complaints that Zelensky's recent trip was turned into a campaign event.

To wrap this up, wj had a question in the comments, which was

Is there any sign that the Japanese are beginning to figure out that their national demographics are going to require them to accept immigrants if the nation is to survive? Or are the cultural barriers still too high to allow reality to intrude on that subject?

My answer was no, not really, but I wonder if that is better than having to deal with people like Jashinsky.

Comments

[wj]

Universal basic income for illegal immigrants, which is a real thing that this bill does.

I'm not sure "Where do these people come from?" is a useful starting point. Unless you mean, "What alternate universe do these people come from?" Because they cite, with absolute certainty, things like this that are simply not real.

There is no Universal Basic Income for anybody in this country. There is, I think, a valid argument that there should be. But there isn't. Not for citizens. Not for legal immigrants. Not for illegal immigrants. Not from the Infrastructure Law.** Not from any other law. It simply isn't real.

One does wonder, in the abstract, how she thinks such a thing could be implemented for illegal immigrants. It's not like there is a database of names and addresses to which to send the checks. That's a critical matter for illegal immigrants -- to stay invisible to the government, so they don't get picked up and deported. They certainly don't have bank accounts where the government could conveniently deposit money. For that matter, in this universe there are a lot of poor people who are citizens, but who don't have bank accounts.

To lj's question, I suspect yhat Japan will come to see people exactly like Jashinsky. There may not be enough immigrants yet to trigger that reaction. They may not, yet, have become prominent/successful enough in business or politics. There may not yet be enough immigrants marrying Japanese women. (Somehow local men marrying immigrant women always seems a much lower, although hy no means zero, concern.) When there are enough immigrants, it will happen.

Especially as Japan has no established, traditional, process for integrating immigrants. How successfully integrated are the people of Korean descent, whose ancestors were brought to Japan in the 1930s and 1940s? Even without the "benefit" of being readily visually distinguishable, discrimination continues. (Unless something has changed radically since I last heard about the matter.)

** I seem to recall that there is something in the law about guaranteeing school lunches to all children, without requiring proof of legal status. And maybe even some arrangement to cover times when school is not in session. But that's hardly a guaranteed income.

[liberal japonicus]

I felt the same way about it as you write, but seeing amount of crap coming from orangeshite and mascara-man, which the media pretends doesn't exist, as well as the apparent floor of 47% of the population for whom nothing is disqualifying, I'm wondering if the Japanese approach of keep putting it off, tut-tut when discrimination does flare up and highlight the people who do assimilate is safer because of human nature.

Yes, Japanese of Korean descent do get discriminated against, but they are assimilating, now, about 80% are marrying Japanese. Also, as Korean popular culture, along with food, has become popular, some lean into a Korean-Japanese identity. There are often outbursts of Korean hatred on the internet, though I think it is like misogyny and racism in the US, it operates like the background hum of the universe.

Here are three links for anyone interested in it

https://spice.fsi.stanford.edu/docs/koreans_in_japan

https://www.asianstudies.org/publications/eaa/archives/zainichi-the-korean-diaspora-in-japan/

https://ceias.eu/zainichi-koreans-in-japan-exploring-the-ethnic-minoritys-challenges/

[wj]

Perhaps assimilation there is following something like the pattern here. First generation: extremely determined to succeed, but still bound up in their native culture. Second generation: one foot in both cultures. (For example, quite possibly still speak their parents' native language to them.) Third generation: pretty much indistinguishable from everybody else. Maybe some ethnic dishes that they eat more often at home. But that's about it -- unless they deliberately go out, typically as college students, to explore their roots.

Still, my sense is (from a great distance; you doubtless have a better picture) that assimilation, more accurately acceptance, will be slower for those, like the South Asians, who are visually distinct. Kind of like how discrimination against the Irish and Italians faded in a generation or so, but discrimination against East Asians endured longer.

[Pro Bono]

That's the story of my (Jewish) family. My children, fourth generation, are entirely assimilated - they're ethnically 3/8 Jewish.

Weirdly, and unlike Palestinians, they have a "right of return" to Israel, which they've never been to.

[liberal japonicus]

Kind of like how discrimination against the Irish and Italians faded in a generation or so, but discrimination against East Asians endured longer.

related read
How the Irish Became White by Noel Ignatiev

The book may grant too much agency to the Irish, when I think of immigrants and immigration, individuals are often caught up in ideas, stances and history not of their own making, so it's not the individuals or the group that is responsible but a larger force that is hard to name, but there nonetheless.

[wj]

Agency can be a tricky question. On one hand, the greater culture has "features"** that are beyond the ability of the immigrants to change significantly in the short term. So, little or no agency.

On the other hand, the immigrants do have some agency in that they can act to fit into the existing culture. Learning to speak without an accent can be very hard. But adopting the local attire isn't. The immigrants may have psychological difficulties doing so. But they definitely have agency. Similarly with cultural norms around how you address people, little things like how close to stand when talking, etc. Those are all doable.

** I am fond of the IT definition of "feature": a bug (flaw) for which there is no fix. Cultures definitely have them.

[Michael Cain]

How the Irish Became White

My favorite version, I believe from my Grandma Patrick, was that the Irish men who built Boston's first modern(ish) infrastructure in miserable conditions also had beautiful pale-skinned redheaded daughters that the second/third sons of the Boston Brahman families found irresistible.

[Michael Cain]

I often despair of my race/gender. I should have added, if we're not racist we're misogynists.