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April 22, 2021

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But Priest, are there religious exceptions?

Emory University will require all students to be immunized for COVID-19 for the fall 2021 semester, with exemptions for those with medical conditions or strong personal objections.

Not hard to find.

Emory students can apply for exemptions for "medical conditions or strong personal objections." AUC will allow medical or religious exemptions.

Article:

https://www.ajc.com/education/emory-and-atlantas-to-require-students-get-covid-19-vaccine/4M3BJZVT5JFVJC6HVB6VGFX5OI/

My alma mater was the first in the nation. Yes, I'm bragging.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2021/03/26/rutgers-university-first-us-require-covid-vaccine-students/7010077002/

So, a recall vote in California. Probably cost about a half-billion dollars. Cose to pocket change compared to other things California wast money on.

the "Time's Up" alarm beep on my microwave is the first note of that riff in Call Me All. the "Cancel" button is the second note.

so every morning when i heat up a bit of cat food from the fridge, i hear those first two notes, which i've learned to play in the right time. and then i sing that song all morning long.

So, a recall vote in California. Probably cost about a half-billion dollars.

If it was being run stand-alone, and based on what administering the 2020 election cost, maybe. Although other estimates are a tenth of that size. Plus, some counties already are running an election in the fall.

Now if you are concerned about how much the candidates are going to spend on the contest, that's another story

Any problems with Newsom could have been handled in 2022. The recall is just very expensive trolling.

Personally, I didn't signed the recall petition. But given that it has succeeded, I might well vote to recall Newsome. To my mind, he hasn't done a particularly good job.

Of course, in part the question is, what alternatives are on offer during the campaign? We, IMHO, got lucky with Arnold last time we did a recall. No guarantee we would get lucky again.

Caitlin Jenner is hoping to play the role of Arnold this time. I'm waiting for Kanye to interrupt a Caitlin presser to announce himself.

Approval aside, I think he's still got Value Over Replacement Governor on his side. Not sure that any prominent Democrat will step in to mount a serious challenge, which leaves us mostly with reality TV candidates.

To put it crudely, Jenner has more balls than Newsom...

which leaves us mostly with reality TV candidates.

Having watched Newsome since he was mayor of San Francisco, my judgement is that he, too, is just another pretty face. So not that different from the reality TV group. If he has any actual competence at governing, it is pretty well concealed.

Perhaps he can take his pretty face and become an actor. Give some balance to actors becoming governor.

With any luck, the whole EUA issue with the Covid vaccines -- that is, private universities requiring students to accept a vaccine that is officially classed "experimental" -- will be mooted soon. Still, neither Pfizer nor Moderna have filed an application for a full license, and the FDA's supply chain and manufacture inspection process before a license is issued averages about six months. I believe all the universities are on safe ground requiring vaccinations for semesters/quarters starting in January. Earlier than that, I think they're counting on the courts allowing them to dismiss students' "It's not a licensed vaccine," argument. And it's almost guaranteed some students will take that to court.

Call Me All? Is that Cannibal Corpse?

And it's almost guaranteed some students will take that to court.

Why bother if there's a "strong objections" exemption? I would think Emory put that in there in part precisely so they don't have to bother answering lawsuits.

I quoted Emory's language earlier, but here's the AUCC language: "AUCC schools are developing processes by which exemptions from vaccination will be considered. These processes may vary by institution."

Also, I wonder how any lawsuits would go if the schools just said: get vaccinated if you want to be on campus, otherwise you can still take your classes but it will be online.

Probably cost about a half-billion dollars.

Newsom and the Democratic-controlled legislature have already passed legislation making it an all-mail election*. (a) Those tend to be relatively inexpensive to conduct. (b) Those tend to offset the usual turnout advantage of the special interest group in an oddly-timed election.

* The probability that CA will ever use something other than full vote by mail is approaching zero.

Why bother if there's a "strong objections" exemption?

That's Emory. The others that have been mentioned in recent comments -- AUC and Rutgers -- have only medical and established religious exceptions. The U of California system, that got a lot of play in the press earlier through sheer size, is explicit: their Covid mandate only comes into force if there's a licensed vaccine. In my own state, neither public nor private schools are attempting a mandate. What they promise is that if you show up vaccinated in the fall, they will exempt you from any other sort of testing they might have imposed to get on campus. Say, daily temperature check-in and every other week nasal swab.

Having watched Newsome since he was mayor of San Francisco, my judgement is that he, too, is just another pretty face. So not that different from the reality TV group. If he has any actual competence at governing, it is pretty well concealed.

And if he is still relatively unpopular at the end of his term (assuming he survives the recall election) we'll see who Southern California Dems musters to challenge him. He hasn't earned a pass yet.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dwayne Johnson decided to give a run for governor a go, but I also expect he might be waiting for the pandemic to blow over before dipping a toe in politics.

Also, I wonder how any lawsuits would go if the schools just said: get vaccinated if you want to be on campus, otherwise you can still take your classes but it will be online.

It's been many years, but there's not a chance some of my senior or graduate classes could have been conducted online and provided the same value.

Consider the afternoon that the professor and I argued a point down the length of the white boards, him with the black marker and me with the red, to the edification and entertainment of the other graduate students. That hour was what I paid a semester's tuition for. (When the bell rang, and the other students left, he said, "That was fun. Let me buy you a beer.")

Later in my career, I expended a lot of time and energy on working out how to reproduce that experience over the internet. Trust me when I say that no typical graduate student could afford the kind of specialized i/o devices needed, even today.

Any requirement that I take an experimental drug, or forfeit a large part of the value of the class, best come with a huge tuition discount offer if I decline the drug. As soon as it's a licensed vaccine, I'll drop this entire argument.

I guess I didn’t realize the vaccines were still considered experimental.

Russell -- you've probably looked it up if you care, but this page explains the current level of approval for the COVID vaccines.

Another article.

It's a really, really, really, really big experiment.

the "it's experimental!" line is, of course, commonly used as an excuse by anti-vax freeriders who want everyone else to keep them safe.

anti-vax freeriders who want everyone else to keep them safe.

Some of the anti-vaxxers aren't quite freeriders. They're just too stupid to understand vaccines are safe and effective. Or, in some cases, to acknowledge that various infectious diseases were NOT "dying out" before vaccines came along.

OT: Where is the point at which the likes of Fox News and the NY Post have no credibility? I mean outside of the sort of audience that believes in QAnon- and Alex Jones-level BS. Or is that audience large enough that credibility is an obsolete concept?

Where is the point at which the likes of Fox News and the NY Post have no credibility?

Where they say Biden won the election?

I mean, you answered your own question. You can't ask about credibility without adding with whom.

I am not familiar enough with the NY Post to know about it. It's long been in the tabloid class, but how that plays out in practice, I have no idea.

My sense is that Fox has a split personality. Their prime time has zero credibility, and has been that way for years, possibly even from day one.

It seems that the actual news organization is not too bad. Albeit unable to keep up with correcting the volume of garbage that the commenters spew out.

A NY Post reporter just resigned because, according to her statements, she got ordered to knowingly write a false front page story.
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/reporter-behind-bogus-kamala-harris-story-quits-makes-striking-claim-n1265597

ok, so it's not just conservatives who are working for COVID19. there's also the free-floating miasma of idiocy named Joe Rogan.

OT: Where is the point at which the likes of Fox News and the NY Post have no credibility?

they're not trying to tell people about reality. they're trying to keep people from knowing reality. instead of facts, they provide feelings: fear, loathing and outrage.

gotta keep the audience enraged and engaged. keep the scam afloat.

It's a really, really, really, really big experiment.

And it's going really, really, really well. I got my vaccinations as soon as I was eligible. I encourage everyone I know who doesn't have a medical reason to get vaccinated. If paying people a la West Virginia is what it takes to get people vaccinated, I support paying them.

I also acknowledge the formal clinical studies have not been finished, the manufacturing process is not being subjected to the usual inspection regime, there are obscure international intellectual property issues that are not resolved, and that it has not been approved. That last one puts mandates on questionable legal footing. Even the Pentagon thinks so, and they vaccinate their people for a huge range of things.

Maybe another less-absolute way of posing the credibility question: What will it take for their credibility to diminish significantly? Or when does it take a big enough hit that they feel it and are chastened by it? Again, maybe the audience that doesn't care about being lied to is big enough that the question is moot.

What will it take for their credibility to diminish significantly? Or when does it take a big enough hit that they feel it and are chastened by it?

I look at the fake religions which give a hard date for the end of the world. And, when it doesn't happen, give a new hard date. Over and over and over again. And yet, keep their flock going the whole time -- no matter that they keep being wrong. Leads me to suspect that credulousness is unlimited.

What it will take is advertisers deciding that it is no longer worthwhile to advertise there. Cut them off at the bank. Not sure there is a path to that happening.

Where is the point at which the likes of Fox News and the NY Post have no credibility?

From my point of view, none of the media has much credibility. Even for the ones, like the New York Times, which still do good journalism. You don't know when they're going to spring some completely off-the-wall nonsense on you.

maybe if wildly overestimated their ability to shape their audience's opinion on something really big, like a war. if Fox News mgmt decided they needed a war and went all-in on convincing the audience but the audience ultimately just wasn't into it, that could turn people off.

other than that. i dunno. they're pretty good at knowing how to keep their mythical narrative close enough to reality that the audience is comfortable with the occasional deviations.

I look at the fake religions which give a hard date for the end of the world.

Like the secular religion that says the world is going to end in 12 years due to climate change?... :)

What it will take is advertisers deciding that it is no longer worthwhile to advertise there. Cut them off at the bank. Not sure there is a path to that happening.

I read somewhere that advertising is only a small portion of their revenue. The rest is from cable fees, which they get from bundled channels -- even from people who hate them. And the contracts under which this is happening are longish-term.

Most of the climate change predictions I've seen (admittedly I haven't made an exhaustive survey) say that, at the rate we are going, the climate will change drastically. Which will have impacts, many of them negative, on people. The time to make changes to avoid some of the worst of those is limited.

But if anyone has actually predicted to world will end, I've missed that. No doubt you've got a Reason link which will purport to support such a thing....

the world is going to end in 12 years due to climate change

2035 is often cited as the point of no return.

prove the scientists wrong, if you have the data.

There is always the option of high enough particulate air pollution and, if need be, nuclear winter. We could also invest in research on how to trigger dormant volcanoes. So, we are perfectly free to go for a different point of no return.

Most of the climate change predictions I've seen (admittedly I haven't made an exhaustive survey) say that, at the rate we are going, the climate will change drastically.

2035 is often cited as the point of no return.

This is not what the IPCC is saying. Are they lying?


But if anyone has actually predicted to world will end, I've missed that.

Not a Reason article.

"Ocasio-Cortez called the fight to mitigate the effects of climate change her generation's "World War II."

"Millennials and Gen Z and all these folks that come after us are looking up, and we're like, 'The world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change, and your biggest issue is how are we gonna pay for it?' " she said."
'The world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change,' Ocasio-Cortez says

Charles makes a joke, and down the rabbit hole we go. Let's just agree that AGW/CC isn't a hoax, okay?

I recalled John Stewart's long, in-depth, face-to-face, on-camera evisceration of Jim Cramer those many years ago, noting that I don't think it made a noticeable bump in Cramer's still-continuing career. Nothing matters.

will not chase.

hey look! Rudy G got raided!

Toensing as well.

Round ‘em up!

"Let's just agree that AGW/CC isn't a hoax, okay?"

Okay

Random thought time:

Rudy is Trump’s lawyer.
Robert Costello is Rudy’s lawyer (also Bannon’s lawyer).

Does Costello also have a lawyer?

I wonder what the world record is for the length of a lawyer-of-a-lawyer-of-a-lawyer-of-a-lawyer chain?

Maybe, in the end, it’s lawyers all the way down. Or, at least, in DC.

Too bad Clickbait isn't a lawyer, you could have the Worm Ouroboros swallowing its own tail.

How many lawyers does it take to change a light bulb after walking into a bar?

Change a light bulb? Bah! They'll just send a Cease & Desist letter to the darkness...

maybe the DOJ can open a special wing for Trump's jailed employees/attorneys/cronies

maybe the DOJ can open a special wing for Trump's jailed employees/attorneys/cronies

Doesn't need to be Maximum Security, because these bozos are too incompetent to pull off an escape. But maximum unpleasant would be good. Maybe fold in some sex trafficers, rapists, and child molesters, just to make it more homey for the Trumpistas.

Round ‘em up!

On my current playlist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-HPqS2YrZc

I hear that the Jeffrey Epstein Jail Suite is available and luxurious, in case Trump and his cronies need to "hang out" for a while.

Just take their money. They'll think they're in hell.

In a reversal, the University of Colorado and Colorado State University systems have announced that they will require students and faculty to be vaccinated for the fall term. Official language for the policy -- ie, will there be a personal choice exemption in addition to the obvious medical and religious ones -- has not been released yet.

How is it a requirement if one can choose not to comply with it?

How is it a requirement if one can choose not to comply with it?

Perhaps because the authors are unaccustomed to calling something an "expectation"?

Or maybe they hope that calling it a "requirement" will discourage non-compliance -- if you have to actually file paperwork, however minimal and pro forma, to get an exception, fewer students will fail to comply.

I don't think it's a matter of being unaccustomed. Calling it a requirement, even if it isn't really one, is intended to get as many people to comply by making them think it's a requirement. Some people will just do it. Some of those people might not if the language was "strongly encouraged" rather than "required." The more people who are vaccinated, the less chance that a major outbreak will occur, so they're using language to maximize vaccination. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

"required otherwise you have to fill out this short, trivial, form" caused quite a ruckus when it was RW christianists that didn't want to pay for birth control as "required" by the ACA.

Of course THEY were tots lying assholes, the UC students are more likely to just be lazy.

Or maybe they hope that calling it a "requirement" will discourage non-compliance...

Somewhere down in the details, once the policies are actually committed to paper, it will be a requirement: students must do one from a list of things, all of which require submitting information, or be banned from campus. This isn't even hard: most colleges and universities already do it for the usual childhood vaccinations. The last time I was in graduate school I had to submit a birth certificate (or one of a short list of other documents) to verify that I was old enough I didn't have to show any vaccination records. They may not actually be able to catch you if you sneak onto campus, but they can make your presence largely a waste of effort.

My point about the policies is that they've never tried this with an unlicensed vaccine, the courts may not allow that, and we may hit the beginning of the school year with no licensed vaccines available.

they've never tried this with an unlicensed vaccine, the courts may not allow that

Or, since the vaccines clearly have an exception from the licensing requirements, the courts may feel that said exception is sufficient for this as well.

Or, since the vaccines clearly have an exception from the licensing requirements, the courts may feel that said exception is sufficient for this as well.

Temporary exception. There are any number of reasons why the FDA could be put in a position where the EUAs would have to be revoked. Among those reasons are the drug companies not applying for full licensing in a timely fashion. Why wouldn't Pfizer or Moderna file for a license? Pfizer might think they need to solve the -70 °C storage thing first. Moderna is, I believe, still dealing with court issues in multiple countries regarding whether their use of particular lipid nanoparticles is legal.

Pay every student who has a full vaccination card before the fall term starts $500. They'll get the 90-95% of students they need.

Keep in mind, though, that these university decisions are extremely complex. The universities are under pressure from parents and students that don't want to pay full tuition for Zoom-only classes. The students who are required to be in-person for their intrinsically embodied studies (music, dance, practical medical, etc.), and student athletes require service workers who have unions and whose members have their own safety concerns. Tenured senate faculty have their own representation and their own particular concerns. Graduate students who teach have either student organizations or unions that blend the concerns of faculty and students. And there is a huge contingent of adjunct faculty who may or may not have collective representation and who may or may not have health coverage who are being told that they must be prepared to teach in crowded classrooms with student who may not have been vaccinated, while also being told they will have to make their courses available to student who are not able to attend in-person (which usually results in additional, uncompensated labor and often requires additional out-of-pocket costs to meet the technological demands of online teaching).

So far it seems that most colleges and universities have been responding ad-hoc to the challenges, leaving all the affected parties to follow along as best they can, and the various groups have all been demanding some say in the decision making process to ensure that their needs are not going unheard and unrepresented.

It's taken over a year, but it seems the larger institutions are finally starting to pull together coalitions of all the represented parties to try to find a collective solution that is at least minimally acceptable to everyone who is essential to the educational process.

If you aren't listening to all the groups, though, you don't have a clear enough idea of the context to propose an effective solution. Most people want to be back in the classroom as soon as that is safely possible. But safe is also costly and complicated, and that's a hard situation when so many are already feeling financial pressure.

interesting article

Pfizer could apply for full FDA approval of its COVID-19 vaccine as early as this month, and Moderna could follow soon after.

If regulators sign off, that status change would have significant impacts on vaccine mandates in workplaces and other experimental vaccine candidates still in development.

Currently, the three vaccines on the market only have an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA), meaning they are “authorized” by the Food and Drug Administration but not “approved.”

To get full approval, known as a Biologics License, companies will need to submit six months of data.

...

Both Pfizer and Moderna say they now have six months of data.

Companies want full approval for several reasons. Once the pandemic is no longer officially designated as an emergency, only fully approved products can remain on the market.

...

Typically it takes the FDA about six months to review a licensure application for a high-priority drug. Pfizer said it expects to apply in the first half of 2021, and it expects a decision from the FDA in the second half of the year.

You can bet money that the University of California and other big institutions of higher education are aware of these statuses and using that info to plan their approach to teaching next academic year.

If full approval makes workplace mandates a greater possibility, it can't come fast enough AFAIAC. Some people are going to need a bigger push. I don't want to hear about freedom or liberty from the usual suspects who see employment as a purely voluntary contractual agreement between equal parties. Don't like that conditions of employment? You're free to find another place to work.

here's your daily dose of Fuck The GOP.

Local GOP publishes the arrest records of everyone related to Andrew Brown, the guy killed by police in Elizabeth City NC.

because, the Rule Of Law party is actually a bunch of fascist bootlickers who think summary execution is OK for the right kind of people.

OT but I just got back from an appointment, which means I had a bit of time in the car with the radio on.

Simultaneously with hearing an R congressman whining about bipartisanship, I drove by a house with a "Clickbait 2024 - TAKE AMERICAN BACK AGAIN" sign in the front yard.

No one in the party of Mitch McConnell has any right to whine about bipartisanship for at least a century. But they do and will, enabled and egged on by the punditry, who love what they think is a clever gotcha, or a jag of both-sideserism, more than anything on earth.

As for anyone who thinks America is theirs to "take back" ... ah, never mind.

I wouldn't be surprised if Clickbait was serving time by 2024. I'm probably biased in favor of believing in that possibility, but what's a little bias between friends?

hsh -- I'd settled for that. Or else he's so addled by 2024 they can no longer hide it.*

But I suspect his ability to perform before an adoring audience will be the last thing to go...just as I optimistically assume that my ability to do sudoku will be the last thing to go. As in, I tell my kids that when I'm misbehaving in the nursing home, they should just give me puzzles and I'll quiet down.

Optimistic, I know, but what's a little bias between friends?

*PS: not that I imagine his rabid cult following would be able to tell the difference.

Or else he's so addled by 2024 they can no longer hide it.*

Objectively, he's already there. And has been for some time.

One of the definitions of legal insanity is that the person "cannot distinguish fantasy from reality". Sounds like Clickbait in spades.

Every day for the last 100 days, I've basked in the experience of not feeling like somebody was shrieking obscenities directly into my ears through a bullhorn.

It's freaking great. I'm sure it won't last, but it's lovely and refreshing change.

wrs

I have enjoyed that also.

I don't know about our lurkers, but I suspect that (possibly for the first time) this is something that every single one of our commenters can agree on.

I'm pretty sure the bullhorn is still out there, and still rotting brains. But at least our ears, and immune systems, are getting a break.

it's down in AZ, keeping the Big Lie alive with its team of Cyber Ninjas.

gotta keep the dupes duped or they'll stop paying for Papa Trump's annual gold toilet replating.

While all? most? of us appreciate the quiet, I suspect the media are starting to jones for more Trumphetamine rush.

Why, if thing get too *boring* they'll have to report actual *gasp* NEWS! INCONCEIVABLE!

I guess there's always shark attacks and missing white women stories they can fall back on.

Snarki, child of Loki - I don't think the MSM will ever report actual news.

They don't hire people who understand or care about policy, and they sure as hell don't feature policy on any of their talkfests.

It's all Gossip Girl nonsense. Who's up, who's down; who's "winning," and what Person X thinks about the mean thing Person Y said about them.

Pfui.

“Sleepy Joe is gonna take away your hamburger” doesn’t have the same thrill. He seems too much like a guy who grills a nice steak now and then for it to be credible.

He’s FDR who drives a vintage Vette. It’s like a (D) secret weapon. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has a Harley panhead out in the garage.

they've finally got the scandal that will bring him down!

Biden's fake planted photo-op dandelion -gate is going to blow the whole thing wide-open.

The cops who tackled the old lady over a $13.88 not-actually-shoplifting-because-the-employees-took-the-stuff-back-before-she-left-the-store incident at WalMart, and dislocated her shoulder among other injuries, and laughed about it back at the station -- are no longer employed as Loveland cops.

They can probably live on wingnut GoFundMe $ from here on out, like Kyle Rittenhouse. But hopefully they won't be able to hop down the road and get jobs with some other PD.

@cleek -- and the dope doing the "news"cast doesn't even know the difference between a dandelion that hasn't bloomed yet and one that has already gone to seed.

What were people saying about the media a few comments ago....?

I will add: it bemuses me on a daily basis that people who want to be journalists (the writing kind) for a living don't care enough about language to equip themselves with basic grammatical competence or very much in the way of good vocab either.

I have a library's worth of examples of the misuse of fancy-sounding words that they think make them look sophisticated but only succeed in making them look dumb.

Last week it was "flaunted COVID rules" instead of "flouted" them, in a headline and in the lede. To that reporter's credit, he took my friendly email correction gamely, and shortly thereafter someone changed both the headline and the article to say ... not "flouted," but rather "violated."

...

The good old days weren't all good, but at least news outlets had enough revenue to pay editors to clean up the messes before they got in front of the public.

/Friday afternoon rant. Happy weekend you all.

As an aging suburban householder with a tiny but reasonably well-cared-for front lawn, I can say, with great confidence, that dandelions don’t need no planting.

They do quite well, all on their own.

Dandeliongate, which I have only just seen, is fab. Plus, wrs on the matter.

Ive just had my second Pfizer jab, twelve hours ago, no ill effects so far except a slightly sore arm.

Happy weekend all from me too, and in our case it's a three day one, a legacy (possibly) of our once socialist masters. Hurrah!

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