What is QAnon?

by liberal japonicus

A piece from Talking Points Memo editor Josh Marshall that is behind their paywall, but this paragraph gives a taste

As the QAnon phenomenon becomes more central to critical political and public safety questions, I realize we need a new vocabulary to describe this and similar phenomena. Q is not a “conspiracy theory”. The faked moon landing was a conspiracy theory. Perhaps birtherism was a conspiracy theory, though one with similarities to QAnon because of its strong ideological valence. But Q is not a conspiracy theory. It’s a fascistic political movement which predicts and advocates mass violence against liberals (and everyone else outside its definition of true Americans) in an imminent apocalyptic political reckoning. What we call the ‘conspiracy theories’ are simply the storylines and claims that justify that outcome. They could easily be replaced by others which serve the same purpose.

Since I assume that folks here don't have a lot of knowledge about QAnon (and I don't either, so any links would be appreciated), but I have seen it consistently portrayed as a conspiracy theory, so I thought this was an interesting point. Lifting up this piece if you missed it in the comments (From Cleek?). Given the standing ovation that Greene got from the other Republicans, I think it will continue to be something we have to grapple with.

Comments

[Kevin Hayden]

A self-reinforcing alternate reality but directed by hidden directors. There's no Q; there are Qs.

Those with evil intent can just jump in to provoke a desired outcome. And the sleuths don't get it.

they think they're discovering clues to go somewhere, and they don't realize that 'somewhere' isn't a place that rewards them or anyone.

It's the same place the directors would take you without the game. In real life, it's easier to see that it's a really crappy place.

And if life was closer to normal (pre-pandemic) I think there'd be less players.

[GftNC]

Well, according to Bill Maher:

The events of January 6th were a faith-based initiative, and Trumpism is a Christian nationalist movement. Magical religious thinking is a virus, and QAnon is just its current mutation.

I do realise that my attitude to religion is not necessarily widespread on ObWi, but I really think there is something to this. The clip is only about five minutes long.

https://twitter.com/billmaher/status/1357915846731997185

[morkymork]

If you don't have a lot of knowledge about QAnon . . . I learned a lot about it from support forums for people whose family or friends fell down the Q hole. Their stories are pretty eye opening. One at reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/

[russell]

not to make light of what is obviously a profoundly concerning situation, but the idea of Beyonce as the sekrit leader of the global Illuminati is, in some bizarre way, delightful.

I simply don't know what to make of this crap. It's insane, and that is not hyperbole. It is clinically delusional.

Sadly, these folks also seem to be obsessively fascinated with violence, so we all best watch our own and each other's backs.

Stay safe out there.

[Snarki, child of Loki]

I, for one, welcome our new Beyonce overlord.

HAWT!

[cleek]

cults within cults.

[JanieM]

I simply don't know what to make of this crap. It's insane, and that is not hyperbole. It is clinically delusional.

I don't know how to say this without risking offense to believers in one religion or another, but there's a level at which some of the stuff the Q people believe is not, to me, a whole lot different from believing in an omnipotent personal deity and his son who rose from the dead etc. etc. etc. Or in heaven and hell and fairies.

Humans believe all kinds of weird shit. If we don't destroy ourselves, and scientists keep at it, a lot of stuff we believe now will seem quaint (if not delusional) in a few hundred years.

Even as a scientific-minded citizen, I have to have some level of faith in someone and/or something to decide which sources of information I trust and which I don't; I can't prove and verify everything for myself. I remember when I was young, having a meditation one day on how I really had nothing but faith at the foundation of my belief that China actually did exist. (I don't remember why I picked China.) People told me it did, but I had never been there....

But the existence of China was part of consensus reality, which is a big deal, it turns out, and until a few years ago I felt like a lot of Americans shared enough of a consensus reality to get by with. Or: I didn't "feel" like that so much as take it for granted, mostly unconsciously. There were fringe nutcases who believed in chemtrails and that 9-11 was an inside job, but their numbers were too small to matter much.

No more. When, to a near approximation, half the country votes for a fascist lunatic and believes the rest of us are cannibal pedophiles (or whatever the fuck), we no longer have a working consensus reality.

When (whether?) we'll ever get back there I don't know, but I'm afraid it may be a rocky path because of the next thing russell wrote:

Sadly, these folks also seem to be obsessively fascinated with violence, so we all best watch our own and each other's backs.

These folks have decided to believe some shadowy entity's assertion that people like us are evil, and not only evil, but so obviously (?!?!?!?) evil that they're justified in taking over the country to make us stop whatever it is they think we're doing. They are obsessed with guns and violence. I keep wondering whether an ordinary Roman citizen looked upon the early Christians the way I look upon the Qloons, but I don't recall hearing that the early Christians were going around talking about shooting everyone else.

/rant

And yes, stay safe out there.

[JanieM]

Not to let Christians off the hook. They spent a lot of time killing non-believers and each other over the centuries. Nor are they unique among believers of various stripes.

Funny how we haven't learned to forestall or even deal with this kind of crap. Maybe we've been studying the wrong things all these centuries. We've never stopped figuring out more efficient ways to kill each other, after all.....

[wj]

there's a level at which some of the stuff the Q people believe is not, to me, a whole lot different from believing in an omnipotent personal deity and his son who rose from the dead etc. etc. etc. Or in heaven and hell and fairies.

Every religion (that I've ever encountered) has a bit, or several, in its theology which looks rather loony from the outside. Some of those beliefs can have a negative objective impact (whatever the positive internal impact) on believers' lives. Others can have a positive objective impact.

To my mind, what matters far more is how their beliefs impact the way believers interact with the rest of us. If their beliefs inspire them to help others, great. If their beliefs inspire them to attack, especially physically attack, others, that's a serious problem. And the QAnon cult, even more than the Trump cult, falls into the latter category.**

** Just out of curiousity, can anyone think of a single positive impact on the rest of the world that either of those cults have encouraged in their believers? I'm coming up blank.

[Girl from the North Country]

I don't know how to say this without risking offense to believers in one religion or another, but there's a level at which some of the stuff the Q people believe is not, to me, a whole lot different from believing in an omnipotent personal deity and his son who rose from the dead etc. etc. etc. Or in heaven and hell and fairies.

I completely agree with this (which was basically the Bill Maher take too, FWIW), and actually with pretty much the rest of Janie's 02.54 as well.

But as I speculated in another thread, when you consider how hard deprogrammers have to work to get individual people out of cults, it's really worrying to contemplate how on earth to get such numbers out of this particularly dangerous new cult.

[Cleek]

TNR has thinks about all this:

https://newrepublic.com/article/161266/qanon-classism-marjorie-taylor-greene

There were plenty of graduates and good students in the mob that day. Plenty of dropouts and poor students looked on in horror. And as much as the right’s critics might prefer an understanding of what’s happened to our politics that flatters their intelligence, the challenge we’re facing isn’t that millions of hapless and benighted yokels have been bamboozled by disinformation. It’s that millions of otherwise ordinary people from many walks of life—including many who went to and even excelled in college—have a material or ideological interest in keeping the Democratic Party and its voters from power by any means possible. And those means include the utilization of narratives, including conspiracy theories, that delegitimize Democrats and offer hope of their eventual comeuppance.

Spoiler: they point to a psychological pattern called Motivated Reasoning

[Cleek]

Oh crap. Runaway blockquote! (Damn you iPhone browser)

[Girl from the North Country]

cleek: interesting piece, particularly the stats. Thanks.

[bobbyp]

Driving to my COVID #1 shot appointment today, I dropped in to an NPR broadcast about a Sandy Hook parent taking on the trolls and the lunacy of Alex Jones and InfoWars. Anybody else catch it?
Disturbing stuff.

As for consensi(?)...I offer this. A good one may be hard to come by, and there seems to be a lot of bad ones.

Take care. Stay safe.

[russell]

a lot of stuff we believe now will seem quaint (if not delusional) in a few hundred years.

Tru dat!

Humility is the beginning of wisdom. Seems to me, anyway.

[Tony P.]

Funny coincidence: New Testament scholars have long speculated that Q was a source for the parts of Matthew and Luke that are not copied from Mark.

Of course, those ancient Synoptic gospels hardly matter to the modern "evangelicals" for whom He, Trump is the Messiah, with Alex Jones in the role of John the Baptist and Ted Cruz playing the part of Saul of Tarsus. Hard to tell whether Liz Cheney is Peter or Judas. John of Patmos, author of Revelation, was Rudy for a while, but Mike Lindell is contesting that.

--TP

[Pro Bono]

'Consensus' in Latin is fourth declension>.

[Hartmut]

Latin teachers also would like to strangle those Italians that came up with tempi as the plural for musical speed. It's tempora and of neutral gender.

[cleek]

Q as Choose-You-Adventure:

Well before anyone knew who Greene was, or the Capitol was stormed by true believers, Walter Kirn wrote a perceptive essay in Harper’s about his own semi-serious obsession with “Q,” the self-proclaimed government agent who began posting perverse riddles on 4chan in late 2017. The collective project of solving these riddles became QAnon. All the spurious dot-connecting struck Kirn as a democratized form of storytelling. “The audience for internet narratives doesn’t want to read, it wants to write. It doesn’t want answers provided, it wants to search for them,” he wrote. “It wants to do.”

[cleek]

imagine a day when the deranged psychology of Republicans and their leaders isn't the hot topic in politics.

[Snarki, child of Loki]

to the modern "evangelicals" for whom He, Trump is the Messiah, with Alex Jones in the role of John the Baptist

Needz moar 'beheading'.

[Hartmut]

But who's going to be Salome? Or Herod for that matter?

[russell]

But who's going to be Salome? Or Herod for that matter?

Ivanka and Donald?

Boebert and Cruz?

[cleek]

the last two episodes of the

[cleek]

... You Are Not So Smart podcast (Conspiratorial Thinking and Reflection And Insurrection) have been pretty good on the subject.

[hairshirthedonist]

I guess this is the best thread to make this comment on.

I'm listening to the Senate trial on the radio, and they're playing clips of tRump speaking about the "rigged" election and what should be done about it. After a relatively short time of not hearing from that lunatic, I've already become less numb to his outrageousness. I heard him say most of the same things during his presidency, and I would just shake my head thinking "Really? Give me a break. What a jackass."

Hearing these things now is more shocking. It's almost unbelievable that a POTUS would even consider saying the things that man said.

It reminds me of studying classical conditioning in psych class. Behavioral reinforcements that are consistently applied lose their effects more quickly once removed than those that are randomly applied. It's as though you (or even a chicken) notice more quickly that the thing that always happened is no longer happening than you will notice that something that only sometimes happened is no longer happening. (The reward system of slot machines works as a random, occasional reinforcement.)

The idiocy and madness of tRump was constant, an everyday thing, usually something that occurred multiple times a day. Now that it's gone, even after a short time, I'm no longer used to it. It's like remembering something from a dream that didn't seem so weird when you were dreaming it, but now that you're awake, you know it was utterly absurd.

[wj]

Listening to Trump's lawyers, I begin to think that maybe, just maybe, they will end up doing a sufficiently inept job that Trump actually loses. The comments from Republican Senators about their presentation have been pretty caustic.

Still not a high probability, but perhaps a small increase.

This is your compulsive optimist signing off....

[Snarki, child of Loki]

I, for one, look forward to the congressional Trump-defenders getting shot on 5th Avenue.

There's already a patsy lined up to take the blame for it (but not the fall for it).

Pro tip: make sure to use firearms that are gold-plated and comfortable for teeny-tiny babylike fingers.

[russell]

Heard about 10 seconds of Trump's speech from Jan 6 while moving the car in preparation for shoveling the walk.

I can't wait for the day that I never have to hear that SOB again.

About 48% of this country needs to wake the f*** up.

[cleek]

i do not expect they will come close to convicting him. if even 5 Republicans vote against him, i'll be shocked.

Heard about 10 seconds of Trump's speech from Jan 6 while moving the car in preparation for shoveling the walk.

that's about all i could ever take. his voice is pure poison to my ears.