Hello . . . there!

by wj

I came across this article in the Washington Post today:
We’re having trouble recognizing each other in masks, and it’s getting awkward
I confess my immediate reaction was: Welcome to my world!

There are some people, me being one, who are really terrible at recognizing faces. It doesn’t necessarily rise to the level of Prosopagnosia (a neurological disorder characterized by the inability to recognize faces). But it can be difficult nonetheless. I spent years travelling as part of an organization I belonged to. And I often would arrive somewhere to be greeted as a long lost friend . . . by people that I had no memory of ever having seen before. I routinely responded to “Hello, Bill” with “Hello . . . there.” Simply because I just had no name to insert.

And it isn’t just casual acquaintances. One of the stories in the article is of a guy who encountered his wife while working, where he had no expectation of seeing her. With masks, he simply didn’t recognize her. Me, I wouldn’t put money on my picking a picture of my wife (or my brother, or my sister) out of a photo array unless there were contextual clues I could use. I just don’t register faces.

Now, it appears, masks are bringing this to everyone. Except they don’t have a lifetime of practice at covering up their failure to recognize others. Rough.

Totally open thread.

Comments

[Snarki, child of Loki]

I, for one, NEVER forget a name or a face.

Except, usually.

[Girl from the North Country]

wj, our views on food may be pretty different, but we suffer from the same almost-prosopagnosia. Although mine wouldn't extend to close family members or friends. And very weirdly, based on some TV documentary I saw with tests, I seem to have some characteristics of what are called "super-recognisers" when they test people for strange talents. It doesn't really make sense; I'm also the person who when the villain at the end of the movie (whom you've been seeing all through, playing an ambiguous but sympathetic role) takes off his mask in the great reveal, I have to elbow my companion and say "Is it him?"

[Michael Cain]

Snarki, I am very good at faces -- as in, "I know you, I saw you at <place, time>." But I have got to be among the worst ever at names.

I have always been curious about how selective human memory can be. My sister never forgets a name or face or phone number. I can't do names or phone numbers at all, but remember a staggering amount of math and tech. My wife knows the words, or at least the first few lines, to an amazing number of songs.

[CaseyL]

The nice thing about non-recognition being so widespread is, it's not embarrassing (at least for me).

I just say "So sorry: I sometimes don't recognize people with a mask on." Chances are good they'll respond "Same here!" and we have a little chuckle over it.

Even without masks, I sometimes have a problem recognizing people if I see them outside the single context in which I usually encounter them. Wait, let me rephrase that: I do know I know them, but can't remember where I know them from. (I think that's pretty common, too.)

[wj]

I have got to be among the worst ever at names.

I didn't touch on it, but I'm definitely with you here. I'd been married 4 years (and dated her for 6 before that) when I went to introduce my wife to someone at a confetence and came up totally blank on her name. Fortunately, she's got a quirky sense of humor (probably necessary, being around me) and thought it was funny. But does it get any worse on names than that?

[CaseyL]

wj - I once blanked on the name of someone whom I've known I was 13 so, yes, it can and does get worse on names than that!

[JanieM]

But does it get any worse on names than that?

Probably not, unless you forget your own. It reminds me of my dad, who was as likely as not to run through the names of all his close female relatives (1 wife, 3 daughters, 2 sisters) when he was addressing one of us. He'd stumble through the first or second syllable of several names before he got it right. Interestingly, I don't think he did this when he was referring to someone in the third person. And I don't think he did it when he was addressing my mom, although her name was on the list he'd run through when he was addressing one of the rest of us.

Some of us in my family now notice ourselves crossing up names by role in the family. For instance, I'll stumble over the name of my son vs that of my brother, or the name of my daughter vs that of my youngest sister (they're both youngest in their families). As has already been touched on, I know perfectly well who they are, it's the labeling that gets glitchy.

[CharlesWT]

I think part of the blanking on names while making introductions is due to one or both parties to the introduction being out of your context for them. Seems to be so in my experience.

[wj]

It reminds me of my dad, who was as likely as not to run through the names of all his close female relatives (1 wife, 3 daughters, 2 sisters) when he was addressing one of us.

May be some genetics going on. My Mom would consistently, when calling to one of us, run thru the names of my father and all of us kids in order of age, skipping the name of the one she actually wanted and then tacking it on at the end. For all of us. Including Dad.

Not quite the same as just failing to remember a name. But it seems like it could be related.

[Michael Cain]

My wife sometimes cycles through our daughter, both granddaughters, and the two female dogs we've had to get the right name. Granted, they are all two syllables and end with a long e sound (eg, Charlie and Beauty).

[hairshirthedonist]

I’m great with faces and terrible with names, though I don’t always know how I know a face. I sometimes recognize people I’ve met before without a clue as to where or when I met them. A couple years ago at a local bar/restaurant, I recognized a woman sitting at the bar and she immediately recognized me. I walked over to her without a second thought and we had a nice conversation, after which I still had no idea where I knew her from. But I sure as hell knew that I knew her! (Neither of us brought up either of our names.)

[wj]

Well, one thing about having always been terrible with names. You don't have to worry that age is causing you to forget them! ;-)

[Russell]

My issue with masks is that I’m hard of hearing and, even with hearing aids, rely on lip reading to understand what people are saying.

Conversations proceed extremely slowly.

[Michael Cain]

Well, one thing about having always been terrible with names. You don't have to worry that age is causing you to forget them! ;-)

Old age: when "Why am I here?" is less of a philosophical question, and more a matter of practicality.

[Michael Cain]

My issue with masks is that I’m hard of hearing and, even with hearing aids, rely on lip reading to understand what people are saying.

A couple of weeks ago I was somewhere that was quite noisy, and the checkout clerk was speaking very quietly. I smiled -- assuming that the smile wrinkles around my eyes would let her know that I was smiling -- and told her, "Shout. I've got gray hair, everyone will figure it out and think highly of you for stepping out of your comfort zone."

You could tell she was smiling even behind the mask, and she shouted. Gave me a warm fuzzy feeling for the rest of the day :^)

[Snarki, child of Loki]

I've heard it said, that as you get older

"the first thing to go is forgetting names"

The second thing is "forgetting to zip up"

The third thing is "forgetting to zip DOWN"

Want to avoid #1? Just name all the kids/pets/spouses/kin "Bruce".

[Gary K]

Essay by Oliver Sacks, (probably behind a paywall for many of you)

[wj]

I give thanks that, unlike Oliver Sachs, I do really well with places and maps.

Thus demonstrating that there's almost always someone who has it worse.

[wj]

A passing thought, while viewing NASA's Astronomy Picture of the Day. Is my difficulty recognizing faces related to the fact that I have never been able to figure out the Man in the Moon? I just don't see a face -- in fact, it occurs to me that I've been just assuming it's a face others see. Indeed, I couldn't even guess which direction said "face" is facing.

[hairshirthedonist]

I've been having a back-and-forth with a friendly acquaintance who has gone pretty far down the Randian rabbit hole. He's a nice, earnest guy and, at the very least, preferable to fire-breathing Trumpists for the purpose of political discussion.

One thing I find particularly noteworthy is the notion he put forth that we don't need government to ensure things like health and safety because businesses already have the incentive to provide safe products to consumers who will naturally prefer safe products over unsafe products. That is to say, it's in producers' economic best interests to do the right thing to ensure continued purchases of their products. (And, besides that, you can always have stuff like UL listing provided by private actors, not simply as supplement to or in concert with government, but as a total replacement.)

While this notion is rational in theory, and I'm sure there are plenty of examples of businesses that, for the most part, do act in this way, I don't know anyone can ignore the innumerable examples of those that don't. It's as though the world is new and we're trying out for-profit business as a an experiment that's never been attempted and has no historical record. It's really weird to me.

[Michael Cain]

While this notion is rational in theory, and I'm sure there are plenty of examples of businesses that, for the most part, do act in this way, I don't know anyone can ignore the innumerable examples of those that don't.

Ask your acquaintance to reconcile their notion with some of the fundamental characteristics of contemporary American industry: joint-stock companies, limited liability, chapter 11 bankruptcy, and the principal-agent problem. It's at least as much in the producers' interest to extract large sums from the enterprise now as it is to think long term.

Rand (and other libertarian-leaning philosophies) make assumptions about ownership and legal liability that simply aren't true.

[Michael Cain]

Since the comments on the Texas post have wandered rather far afield -- not uninteresting, just afield -- I'll stick this here: the first Texas utility bankruptcy filing. Brazos, the largest power generation and transmission cooperative in Texas, ran up $2.1B in charges for electricity it had promised to deliver, but couldn't produce on its own.

IIRC, back in 2000-01, the California state government had to assume $50B in losses to keep things running (ie, California taxpayers took on a good share of the losses). Some group in Texas is going to get hammered, be it taxpayers, rate payers, or shareholders. I'm waiting to see who the Texas state government sticks it to.

[wj]

Some group in Texas is going to get hammered, be it taxpayers, rate payers, or shareholders. I'm waiting to see who the Texas state government sticks it to.

$10 says it won't be the oil and gas companies. Which, pace hsh's friend, didn't winterize their infrastructure (since they weren't forced by regulation to do so).

[Michael Cain]

$10 says it won't be the oil and gas companies.

The other thread had an extended discussion of force majeure, which the gas companies seem to be trying to hide behind. I've seen arguments that it could go either way in the state courts.

[wj]

Since this is actually the current open thread, this:
Apparently even in North Dakota, even for a big Trump fanboy, there are limits to what will be tolerated. Even for Republican legislators, you can reach the point where you get booted out of the legislature.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/02/north-dakota-simons-harassment-obrien/