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January 08, 2021

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One of the best responses to the whole "our 74 million dupes deserve to be coddled in their ignorant fear and rare" is to look closely at what the scumbags manipulating them have actually been saying. The full text of Dominion's lawsuit against Sidney Powell is a gold mine in this regard, getting into enough detail to make the best case for actual malice I can recall ever reading.

https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/dominion-sues-sidney-powell-for-more-than-1-3-billion-in-first-lawsuit-over-post-election-conspiracy-theories/

Since we talk about federal crimes, what would stop Jabbabonk from issuing a general pardon?
Apart from him not actually caring about the dupes, I mean?

nothing can stop him, if he chooses.

every source of information they trust says he didn't.

Not an excuse. They are responsible for what they believe and for the actions they take as a result.

Some of these bastards were hunting members of Congress. Never mind removing their pensions, they need to spend the rest of their lives in prison.

Does anyone disagree with that?

The rest of them need to get their heads out of their asses. If this is not a sufficient wake-up call, then I don't know what is.

No more freaking excuses for these people.

Ran an errand this morning, and was treated to a brief interview with some quaint old grandma who drove from AZ to DC for the rally. Because the election was stolen and she wasn't having it.

"We're taking out country back".

Taking it back from who? Me? Joe freaking Biden, the most anodyne POTUS imaginable, (D) or (R)?

People who aren't like her live here. They are Americans. They have their own interests, which may or may not align with hers, but which are legitimate. And they are entitled to have their interests represented, just like she is.

It's not "her country" to the exclusion of everybody who isn't like her. She has no place to "take it back" from anybody else.

If these people can't get that through their fucking heads, then this country is going to fail. It's going to fall apart, possibly through bloodshed.

Does that seem extreme? It's not. It's a real possibility.

The points about the Bundys are apt, IMO. A lazy-ass rancher who didn't want to pay the rent for putting his cows out on public grazing land was allowed to face down the federal government, because he called a bunch of free-lance vigilante militia boyos to the scene, and nobody wanted to press the point.

And now we get to live with the public life of the nation being held hostage by unaccountable bands of violent dickheads. Not to exclude the dude running for office in ID.

My druthers, membership in or affiliation with a private militia should be a bar to holding elected office. Or, actually, should be an invitation to prison. Our tolerance of private unaccountable free-lance armies is absolutely insane.

Anyone disagree?

Members of Congress, having met to enact the peaceful transfer of power in accordance with our Constitution and laws, were forced to run and hide in order to avoid being assaulted, and likely kidnapped or murdered. In the halls of the Capitol.

I'm not looking for a fight with anybody, but it seems to me that a fight has been brought to me and people like me. There is bugger-all that I can do to get these people to stop filling their heads with toxic bullshit. It's up to them. They have to do it.

I don't know if they will, or not, but I'm not really willing to put up with much more of this. I'm not really sure what "not putting up with it" looks like, exactly, but I'm wondering if I need to start considering things I would never have imagined I'd need to consider.

This event needs to be rolled up with vigor and with no concession given to threats of further violence. The (R) party needs a serious head-check, and they need to purge themselves of treasonous opportunistic bastards like Cruz and Hawley and their pals in the House. Grandma from AZ needs to get her head out of her social media bubble and accept the fact that other people, people who aren't like her, have a claim on this country and on its laws and policies.

All of that. Or else there is no way forward.

This bullshit is not acceptable.

Some of these bastards were hunting members of Congress. Never mind removing their pensions, they need to spend the rest of their lives in prison.

Does anyone disagree with that?

no.

but if the question is why they think ridiculous things, the answer is: they literally believe them to be true because, bubble.

All of that. Or else there is no way forward.

This bullshit is not acceptable.

100%

not sure millions of people are going to find it in themselves to renounce their faith in Republicanism, though. among other things, it would mean admitting the Democrats were right. and, you know...

well then, maybe it's on.

William Tecumseh Sherman had some thoughtful things to say on the topic.

i don't like to hope. but, maybe it really was all about Trump. and maybe the GOP base just won't be satisfied with the pale imitations they're going to be overrun with in the next few elections. maybe they'll elect some people who actually believe in the country more than they believe in Republicanism.

but, maybe it really was all about Trump.

The arc of the history of the Conservative Movement since Goldwater (Brown v Board lit the fuse), it's high priest (Ronnie) and the political institution it has co-opted (The Republican Party) argues otherwise. It is embarked on a road whose path and ultimate goal should be clear to all by now.

yeah... just hoping.

BuzzFeed News spoke to two Black officers who described a harrowing day in which they were forced to endure racist abuse — including repeatedly being called the n-word — as they tried to do their job of protecting the Capitol building, and by extension the very functioning of American democracy. The officers said they were wrong footed, fighting off an invading force that their managers had downplayed, and not prepared them for.

...

The officer even described coming face to face with police officers from across the country in the mob. He said some of them flashed their badges, telling him to let them through, and trying to explain that this was all part of a movement that was supposed to help.

“You have the nerve to be holding a blue lives matter flag, and you are out there fucking us up,” he told one group of protestors he encountered inside the Capitol. “[One guy] pulled out his badge and he said, ‘we’re doing this for you.’ Another guy had his badge. So I was like, ‘well, you gotta be kidding.’”

...

In the seven years since Black Lives Matter has become a rallying cry, the image of a white cop, deciding how and when to enforce law and order, has become ubiquitous. On Wednesday, Americans saw something different, as Black officers tried to do the same, as they attempted to protect the very heart of American democracy. And instead of being honored by the supporters of a man who likes to call himself the “law and order” president, Black Capitol officers found themselves under attack.

“I got called a nigger 15 times today,” the veteran officer shouted in the rotunda to no one in particular. “Trump did this and we got all of these fucking people in our department that voted for him. How the fuck can you support him?”

“I cried for about 15 minutes and I just let it out.”

“I cried for about 15 minutes and I just let it out.”

More on that. We have so much work to do.

Excellent NYT piece, bobbyp. But it's instructive that both our Trump-hating conservatives do not read the NYT, and one of them at least does not even recognise it as a reasonably accurate provider of facts. This is one of the aspects of the post-truth, Fake News, "the media are the enemy of the people" universe we now live in that worries me most.

More on that. We have so much work to do.

OMG.

both our Trump-hating conservatives do not read the NYT

The article in question is by Timothy Snyder, who has spent much of the last several years researching fascism and other forms of totalitarianism in the mid-20th C.

I.e., Hitler and Stalin.

He is worth reading, whether you like the NYT or not.

If they identify people who are police officers from elsewhere from camera footage, I've got no problem firing them for cause, even if they were just going to the rally to see their man.

If they just went to the rally to see their man, no problem. And no consequences. (I may think they're nuts to support him. But that's their right.)

HOWEVER, if they participated in storming the Capitol, that's an entirely different deal. No matter if they are too ignorant, or too delusional, to realize it.

meanwhile, this guy drove his car into a crowd of BLM protestors, and skates.

Stepanek’s attorney John Bruzek said his client was influenced by social media and political rhetoric characterizing the protesters as dangerous criminals. Stepanek initially believed he was legally justified but has come to see he was wrong and apologized, Bruzek said.

So filling your head with bullshit is now a legal defense if you decide to plow through a crowd with your car.

Nice that he apologized, I guess.

And, upon conviction of the felonies that MANY of them committed, lose their right to possess firearms or to vote.

FOR LIFE.

Hartmut: Fully agree to the first but strongly object to the latter.

I tend to agree. Give them a decade or two in prison (where they definitely do NOT get to vote). But once they've served their time (including parole), then they get their right to vote back - as a Federal matter. Not just as a general matter of principle, but because the opportunity for abuse is just too large.

Which might make the right wing in Florida rethink their opposition to ex-felons voting in their state. :-)

both our Trump-hating conservatives do not read the NYT

Can't speak for the other conservatives here, obviously. But I don't read it simply because I'm too cheap to pay for it. I figure I've got other reliable sources of accurate information. "Mainstream media" sources, just for the record.

So filling your head with bullshit is now a legal defense if you decide to plow through a crowd with your car.

Obviously just another case of diminished capacity.

I managed to read the NYT piece for free, simply by clicking on bobbyp’s link. I don’t know if it’s a matter of getting to read a few articles a month without a subscription or if that piece was opened up to everyone because of its importance. Either way, I’m glad I got to read it. Thanks, bobbyp.

Tim Snyder (did Bobbyp beat me to it. Good on him.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/09/magazine/trump-coup.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

"Starting with their Dear Leader, all of his enablers, and working our way down to Nazi Viking or whatever the hell that horned clown was supposed to be."

Please, let's respect the trick AND the treat and not hurt conservative/snowflake feefees.

The subhuman's formal title is the Grand Shaman of QAnon, the ubiquitous skid mark of our tacky, parlous, but no less deadly times, much as the semi-fictional furious knitter Madame Defarge was a permanent sight for popped sore eyes in the severed heads plopping into baskets at her feet during the Reign of Terror, brought to you by the Committee of Public Safety and Security, which sounds suspiciously like the title House and Senate Republicans would give to a piece of legislation that eviscerates OSHA regs while paying fake dumb grifting Christian tribute to unionless meatpacking line workers on ventilators who share one thumb between them from unavoidable but forced workplace accidents, or slashes taxes while extolling the revenue-generating bounty of less revenue, the f*cking stinking liars ..... also as much as Tom Delay, John Kasich, Bill Bennett, Grover Norquist, Pat Buchanan (my god, the heads-up-their-asses contortions they are twisting themselves into over at fascist TAC, as they try to absorb the Capitol Hill putsch by their the conservative brethren they have incited for years, while maintaining their f*cked up "principles"; R.D., I can't say his name any longer, is fit to be tied, as he rubs rationalizing salve on his self-inflicted fake Christian stigmata) and a cast of thousands of maskless conservative movement insurrectionists and superspreaders, godfathers and mothers to this inevitable, inexorable violent Trump apotheosis were ubiquitous sidekicks to the utterly evil Newt Gingrich, still with us, exuding poison from every reptilian gland and pore during the Jacobin/Oklahoma City terror of the 1990's, also, let us note, terror from within government by government-hating scum AGAINST the government paying THEM with MY f*cking tax dollars to f*ck me, and to appear bipartisan, balanced, unbiased and both sides politically correct out of cackling respect for the tender right wing snowflakes out there ... much as the dear Wavy Gravy was a ubiquitous presence during the 1960s and early 1970s demonstrations, concerts, and utterly useless levitations of government buildings (the filing cabinets inside were too heavy) except that sweet man had not a violent, sadistic bone in his body and brought something to that movement that THIS tone-deaf conservative dogsh*t putsch lacks in full ... some good music.

I mean, WAS there any music, decent or otherwise, accompanying the coup attempt orchestrated from inside the White House and by the above-all-law chief executives' co-conspirators among Senate and House Republican lunatics AND among federal law enforcement and security and military agencies, including the assorted Dreyfus's bringing home a taxpayer paycheck among the inside job Capitol police leadership, all stinking republicans, I'm quite certain, if we examine their voting records, which we should do to learn who is on whose side once and for all, because until we learn that, we can't hand out uniforms for the formally declared Civil War.

Listen to the cool key modulation in this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T59hsln7nlc

What did we expect exactly when one of our founding myths is a bunch of Antifa wanna-be Tea Party looters throwing perfectly good tea overboard into Boston Harbor while dressed as fake Native American warriors, like our shaman buddy,and this entire country found time from reneging on Reconstruction and inscribing into hard f*cking law Confederate Jim Crow institutional racism, in order to build statuary to "honor" (that dumb, self-adulatory, self-dramatizing chest-beating Scots/Irish Southern confederate slave-owning confection) traitors to this country, who if Wilkes Booth, the Founder of the modern Republican Party, hadn't murdered Lincoln, were standing in line for five years of Civil War to do the same and worse, overthrow the government of the United States.

Note: I am in favor of Robert E. Lee statues being removed from town squares everywhere, but preserved in a museum of renowned military Generals, alongside Erwin Rommel, Colonel Sanders, Patton, Custer, Võ Nguyên Giáp and all of the other notables.

A word about taxes (Norquist remains public enemy #1 in my ledger; trump is a mere hashtag next to that evil cuck): Make a graph. Label the x-axis "tax rates". Label the y-axis "anger and fury against government". The time line would start on the day Kennedy started the long decline in tax rates in 1961, continues thru all of the interim, well-documented bullsh*t, and goes right to this minute.

Note how as tax (the bane of all right-thinking Americans) rates have been slashed steadily through time, high on the left side of the graph and plunging to the right corner on the x-axis, a steadily rising line tracing an ever-building fury and anger at government, relatively low at the left-hand corner and rising like a blimp with a faulty gas valve to the upper right hand side of the graph.

I don't know. What accounts for that inverse relationship. Coincidence? Or Causation?

The conservative movement has accomplished, via the governance destroying Norquist pledge, all they wanted in slashing taxes and revenue to government and yet the same villains work overtime to fluff the everhard erections of anti-American government haters.

This is an illustration of why conservatives cannot be lived with. They get everything they want and it is NEVER enough, merely a down payment on their next uncompromising demand, or else. Remember we have all the guns, motherf*ckers, they remind us incessantly, the armed prats.

But THEY are the victims. THEY are the put-upon martyrs, nurturing their own martyrdom and ripping off the bandaids covering their stigmatas to keep them freshly bleeding and from scabbing over, like the insane anorexic young women sanctified by the perverted Catholic Church and who, in their filthy cells on filthy rations at the funny farms constantly upped the ante in their addlepated quests for sainthood, by licking and polishing the polluted floors of their cells with their bleeding tongues and jamming those same tongues into cracks in the walls to eat spiders hiding therein.

See the essay/book review "Some Girls Want Out: The Hairshirt Sisterhood" in: https://www.amazon.com/Mantel-Pieces-Bodies-Writing-London/dp/0008429979

I nominate Mantel as the poet laureate and chronicler of this moment, should she choose to take on the burden.

Yes. The Bundys. Just so. They got off easy, like trump has all his life and will still, to live another day to fester their martyrhood. But, if law enforcement had gunned all of them down at the Malheur and fed their remains to the endangered tortoises who own the place, or whatever, that too would have elevated them to martyhood.

We can't win. They are just as dangerous dead as alive, just as martyred super spreader mask-defying republicans are just as dangerous in the minority as they are in the majority.

Their grievances assuaged pisses them off even more than their grievances ignored and their violent actions given a pass for the sake of some future imaginary comity because our natural inclinations are to not buy trouble and hope all is a passing phase, like teenage glue-huffing.

Yes. Prosecute the insurrectionists for their individual criminal acts.

But these are not your run-of-the-mill criminals like shoplifters, car thieves, and smugglers, the latter of whom don't have political ideologies. The latter are anti-government only in the sense that their activities are interdicted by an inconvenient government. These ilk are serious motherf*ckers.

Let's not forget, however, that the early Nazis, the early rebel Bolsheviks, the early confederate rabblerousers, the nascent Khmer Rouge, pick any murderous cult, were all dismissed and derided as clowns, showboats, fantasists. Many among the early phases were in fact petty criminals, in and out of prison, Hitler himself, for years, for example.

Their ideological ardor was not nipped in the bud in the least by enforcing criminal indictments against them.

These ilk do not go away under their own power. They do not stand down.

Prosecute the breaking of windows all you like during Kristallnacht. You'd be boosting the German glazing industry, sure .. while perfectly missing the point.

Just so, these scum.

I'm nearly done.

FOX News and their horrid media sisters must be abolished, root and branch. Murdoch must be deported.

Yeah, be careful what I wish for, right, First Amendment purists?

Next you'll be telling me Joseph Goebbels had rights too as he murdered his own children as Allied Forces closed in to permanently shut his mouth about killing Jews.

I can't buy large amounts of fertilizer and rat poison for fear of my intent.

Just so with the explosive poisons spewed from the puke funnel at FOX News.

I've noted this before, and I apologize that I can no longer find the video clips from at least two decades ago. It was in my favorites, since deleted by a succession of new computers.

It is of Grover Norquist and a very young Tucker Carlson, tittering in adoration of Norquist like a kneeling sorority girl at a frat boy hazing, interviewing a roster of four republican candidates for, if I remember correctly, either the US House or a state legislative office. Norquist is grilling the four, three males and one female, all experiencing the visible sheens of flop sweats, about their personal weapons arsenals, in that stern, authoritarian straight mug mouth of his, which was not tolerating any hesitation on the candidates' parts about any hesitations that might have about the line of questioning. Each one described, lovingly, each weapon, multiples of them, many semi-automatic and automatic (at the time), they kept at the ready, in their gun cabinets.

As Carlson giggled that high-pitched nerd thing he does (like Buchanan, Carlson rails against Washington elites, but like Buchanan is a born son of Washington elite insiders and heir to elite fortunes) it was obvious that Norquist was NOT so much concerned with grouse-hunting or personal self-defense as the function of these weapons, but how those weapons were the bulwark to be used against government and government employees.

Around the same time, I saved a clip from C-Span in which some poe-faced Brian Lamb wanna be, maybe Lamb himself, interviews Norquist about farm subsidies and when the interviewer muses about what might happen if farm subsidies are not immediately withdrawn, Norquist said, "Well then, the government will be facing five million armed and angry farmers and ranchers."

What happened last week is nothing new with the conservative movement. They have been insurrectionists, threatening insurrectionist violence against the government and government employees since Daddy Koch returned from Germany and Russia to peddle his citizen's united rat poison and Robert Welch declared governance by man the enemy of Man.

It is the plain fact [that] there are no conservative or reactionary ideas in general circulation" but only "irritable mental gestures which seem to resemble ideas."

Funny-looking furry hatted asses I can kick.

It's the Norquists that are ultimately going to be mine and must be the declared enemies of America.

In the meantime, even though my personal opinion is that altering the Electoral College apparatus should be approached cautiously (I'm conservative that way, but mainly because the modern noxious republican party is three steps ahead of all of us in the ruination game and will find ways to turn THAT to their malignant advantage as well), I suggest the home states of each and every one of the insurrectionists who violated the Capitol with intent to kidnap and murder (gotta say, it gave me a thrilling frisson up the spine imagining Pence tied to a chair with some wadded up legislative drafts stuffed in his Trump-fellating mouth, surveying the scene, through clouds of teargas, with that smug, dumb, ever-present rictus of fake, cynical grifting Christian holier than thou all-American stupidity frozen on his face as he contemplated in that barely flickering one-celled rodent he calls a brain how he arrived at his moment in infamy; like the clueless lady in this cartoon is nitwit blockhead Pence. God, he must be a stallion in bed for his poor wife to still give it up to him):

https://condenaststore.com/featured/we-had-rats-liana-finck.html

............ be identified. and for every one individual breaking shit in Washington D.C. on January 6, one electoral vote be subtracted from their total electoral vote allowances.

That should put the smaller western red
states out of business and with any luck hobble Florida and Texas, who sent caravans (and NOT the good kind consisting of besieged Latin Americans, otherwise known as better US citizens than any so-called republican citizen interviewed in diners across America by New York Times reporters) and the other big red states for the rest of the century.

January 17th is a QAnon annivesary. Much is planned.

We ain't seen nothin yet.

The media has invited a measure of distrust by media organizations and journalists coming across as advocates for various political and social agendas and narratives instead of dispassionate reporters of facts.

The media has invited a measure of distrust by media organizations and journalists coming across as advocates for various political and social agendas and narratives instead of dispassionate reporters of facts.

The major media actually does a fairly good job of separating their opinion pieces from their news stories. They keep the news stories factual. In general (emphatically excluding Fox) they accurately label which is which.

At worst, you can fault their selection of which news stories to run. Because, after all, you can't possibly cover everything that happened. Not even locally, let alone across the entire planet.

He is worth reading, whether you like the NYT or not.

But my point is that NYT-avoiders would never read it, on principle. Maybe not the two here, but all the others. Non-exposure to facts, or other ideas, is what moves the Overton Window, and also enables unreality bubbles.

wj: you were not one of the conservatives to whom I was referring.

CharlesWT: Yeah, right. And whether you intend it or not, thus the justification for the for treating the press as The Enemy of the People.

I think we have at least a couple of layers of conversation going on here that need to be tracked. There is the question of law and justice. There is the question of politics and coexistence. Between those two there is a fairly fraught and narrow path to get to the most important question, which is "how can we move forward in a way that will allow the factions to reestablish social bonds and find a common narrative and source of information from which to build a shared social future." That last part is not always possible if we insist on law and justice, but it is also impossible without a mutually agreed system of law and justice. Helluva bind.

Excerpt from an ongoing conversation I am having with an old and politically problematic friend on social media:

Me -What do you think should be done with the people who breached the capitol? What is the appropriate response?

Him - They should be arrested and charged with destruction of Federal property at the very least. If a charge of sedition and insurrection is appropriate that as well. I am not a lawyer so I am not sure of the legality of that. With Trumps monuments declaration, I would expect at least 10 years in prison. If Treason can be proven I agree with the death penalty. Obviously not all of them destroyed or looted property. So criminal trespass may be on the table. There are consequences to actions. I would expect to see many to have a 10 year sentence.

So there is common ground here in how the right sees the assault on the capitol.

We need to get people like him to, if not join us, at least take a public stand in their own media against this sort of violence and sedition. The us vs them urge needs to be aimed not at right/left, but at their own political associations.

With him I have been trying to focus on the false equivalencies that fuel his justification narratives by arguing that the violence during the Portland, Seattle, and Kenosha protests was not in any way promoted by BLM, and providing the best evidence that I can that the rumors of widespread and unusual election irregularities are malicious and false and are being used to justify the actions he denounced above.

providing the best evidence that I can that the rumors of widespread and unusual election irregularities are malicious and false

I don't know if you will find it helpful. But I have been pointing out that Trump's own lawyers have made speeches claiming election fraud. But when they actually get into court, they are extremely careful to tell the judge that they are NOT saying that there was election fraud. Because, it's fine to lie in a speech. But, for a lawyer, lying to a judge in court has huge, disastrous, consequences. So they don't.

And they can check that for themselves by reading the court transcripts. No need to go anywhere near the media.

Yes. I agree we need good journalism.

But my point is that NYT-avoiders would never read it, on principle.

Yes, apologies if it seemed like I was disputing you on that. Mostly I was trying to provide an inducement to read for folks who might otherwise ignore it due to it being the NYT.

I completely agree on the issue of information bubbles.

nous, thank you for fighting the good fight.

"as advocates for various political and social agendas and narratives instead of dispassionate reporters of facts."

Name one day in American history that condition did not exist in American journalism, print, broadcast or what passes for internet news.

It's a business. What sells .. is sold and bought.

Christ, have you tried reading ANY stock market fluffing garbage on ANY internet business news website or for that matter Anywhere? EVERYTHING is a sales pitch by the bulls and free advertising for every commissioned cockeyed lying optimist, not straight news.

God, what idealistic horsesh*t.

But, what we have now from FOX and ilk is something much more malignant as Snyder points out. It's on a par with Pravda, with Hitler's propaganda ministry, and Tokyo Rose and Axis Sally blaring to our boys in foxholes about their favorite Brooklyn Dodger so they might raise their heads for the sniper to get off a good shot.

It is to mainstream journalism and the news, which is imperfectly objective, sure, and always has been like every human endeavor queered by the need to make a buck in America, what Hustler Magazine was to objectified lady parts, a pusher of malignant hateful lying shit we don't need to know, hear, see, or act upon.

And furthermore, tex, this idea of yours that if ONLY we would leave Trump out of all this IS one hell of a notion.

Never mind the man (one of the many) behind the curtain.

By all means, let's also take the Mao out of Maoism, the Stalin out of Stalinism, the Marx out of Marxism, The Hitler out of Nazism, the Manson out of the Manson cult, and Christ out of Christmas, the Sam out of Houston, the Wiz out of Wizard, The Washington out of Washington DC, the Lincoln out of Lincoln Logs, the Dada out of Dadaism, and the Plato out of Platonic sex, and the hots and the tots out of the Hottentots, everything would just go away and no one would be held responsible for whatever THEY pushed their way to the front to get all over us, and named after themselves.

Why, as I write this, the severed heads of the Boleyn sisters hover before me pleading that we stop making their fates all about Henry VIII.

Why must he snag all of the attention?

European leaders I expect feel the same way about trump.

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=video+of+trump+pushing+europeasn+leaders+out+of+the+eay&atb=v204-1&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DLa9VuUuJJDo

I will concede to you that the news media, across the board, fattened bottom lines with their cynical 24-hour attention on close-ups of the slow-mo catastrophic, country-ending train wreck of this bloated porcine villain and his sordid filthy conservative minions.

It wasn't a journalistic decision. It was a business decision. Like every fucking thing in America, including Christianity and flavored condoms.

It's Chayefsky's Network come to full fruition.

But here's the thing. I can tell by the bemused observations about the events of recent days from the above-the-clouds elitist libertarian tower from which you look down on all of it is that your real point is, you know, you fools, if we didn't have a government and even refused to govern and in fact if we had never built the Capitol Building to house our so-called representatives, none of this would have happened.

Right?

The 24-hour news cycle has ruined us.

It's ruined sports.

It's ruined investing.

Stop it. Stop feeding me with a firehose. Even in my sleep.

This just in. F*ck off.

We'll be right back for more of that.

A couple of lines from the Snyder piece:

"As Cruz and Hawley may learn, to tell the big lie is to be owned by it. Just because you have sold your soul does not mean that you have driven a hard bargain."

"Flood the zone with shit" is the information warfare equivalent of maneuver warfare aka "shock and awe." Force the tempo and set the terms and hit them again before they can react to the first attack. It perpetuates a defensive posture. Truth is irrelevant because by the time the return fire of truth can be delivered, the target has moved on to another lie fired from another direction.

But, what we have now from FOX and ilk is something much more malignant as Snyder points out........It is to mainstream journalism and the news, which is imperfectly objective, sure, and always has been like every human endeavor queered by the need to make a buck in America, what Hustler Magazine was to objectified lady parts, a pusher of malignant hateful lying shit we don't need to know, hear, see, or act upon.

Exactly right. And different in kind and in every other way from media outlets which at least try to give the facts. And the culture which allows e.g. the NYT or the WaPo to be considered Fake News, and The Enemy of the People, is very much part of what has enabled and contributed to the terrifying polarisation of the country into two groups with precisely opposite ideas of what is true and what is not.

What upsets me most in all this is that it makes the attitudes that JDT has been posting here seem increasingly attractive. Which is to say, turning ourselves into mirror images of those attacking our country and our institutions.

I get particularly depressed when I just can't see a viable alternative. Alternatives we may hope will work, yes. But alternatives likely to work? Not so much. Sigh.

Let's not forget that in addition to smearing feces, these people (in this case a lawmaker) are also spreading disease. On purpose.

I get particularly depressed when I just can't see a viable alternative.

For a perhaps short while, we will have the full power of the Federal government behind us, with all of its laws. We need to use that, fully. Prison.

It's a business. What sells .. is sold and bought.

Why, exactly. As the outcome of the intricate play of Natural Law, the free marketplace of ideas, and the capitalist ethos...then what we observe is, nay, must be the Best of All Possible Worlds.

Right, Charles?

Arnie, who knows fascists.
https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/status/1348249481284874240

Sane Republicans are demanding accountability, too.

wj,

I feel your pain. Some post putsch GOP observations from local GOP pols and their citizen hangers on here in the 48th soviet of Washington.

I dare say, the attitudes expressed here are pretty much the same across the nation. The denial is, simply put, staggering.

"he will soon be as irrelevant as an old tweet"

Nicely put, Arnie. Let's hope so.

They keep the news stories factual. In general (emphatically excluding Fox) they accurately label which is which.

As an example, with all the recent controversies and instances of mixing opinion into news stories at the NYT, a bit of skepticism of any news they publish is indicated. All news should be view with skepticism until collaboration, regardless of source.

"The major media actually does a fairly good job of separating their opinion pieces from their news stories. They keep the news stories factual. In general (emphatically excluding Fox) they accurately label which is which."

This is complete nonsense. By this measure Fox is the absolute equivalent of CNN while the others pedal George Stephanopoulus as Sunday morning news.

The media clearly lies regularly, not for the Democrats, but for what they want to be supported. Then Fox turned that up for the "right".

It sucks, but they just outdid the people who started it. If you want to hope for a solution intellectual honesty needs to be a prerequisite.

I haven't read the other comments so please forgive me.

We can't let people think that it might be a beneficial political gambit to play around with coup attempts. So until we research further I'm not sure HOW deep we need to go, but for sure we have to expel Cruz and Hawley from the Senate.

Also have you seen this discussion about how close of a call it was?

Apparently (while the Congressman were still there) an entrance to the Senate Chamber was open and undefended, and a single black police officer saw that, and led the mob down the wrong hallway by getting them to chase him. This could have been MUCH worse than it already was.

https://twitter.com/pamelacolloff/status/1348297094969372677?s=21

"Which is to say, turning ourselves into mirror images of those attacking our country and our institutions."

Well, so far, only in the sense of Laurence Olivier turning himself into Richard III, humped and gimp-legged, laying waste to the kingdom and upending enemies into vats of wine, while afterwards exchanging bon mots with Ralph Richardson at the pub around the corner.

But I am very attuned to the fact that one day, perhaps soon, I personally will have to fight this evil physically in the streets, exchanging kind for kind, whatever they want to bring.

Heck, I've talked MYSELF into it. But I'm not going to be a solitary actor. It's gotta be organized and overwhelming.

I'm warning myself about what I may have to do. I do it out loud for all of you to hear.

If they want to get racial, anti-Semitic, and misogynist about it, I'm perfectly willing to drop whatever "politically correct" attitudes I have adhered to over time and my mouth can get straight down to their level in a hot minute.

Once first shots are fired, the game's on.

They've been fired. Now what?

When I played ball, especially years ago, I was the model of gentlemanly sportsmanship, head down, hustling, minding my own business, getting back in the dugout as quickly as possible without gloating over whatever there was to gloat over and most of my teammates were like that.

But, there were teams we played who made it their business to be assholes, mostly over-muscled, thick-necked white knuckleheads who thought they might as well make war, show us their dicks, while accidentally also playing baseball.

I'd sit there in the dugout, or stand in center field between pitches, thinking they just weren't very good at being assholes, and some of my teammates on this particular mixed-race team were on the same page.

So, we'd show them how to be assholes for the rest of the game. It's not like I wanted the full supply of my stupidity-inducing testosterone to go to waste with mere head-first slides into third.

The fields were emptied, the game annulled, the lights shut off, and the opposing assholes made promises about World War III in the parking lot.

Fine. Let's go. But almost always, they were driving away as we followed them out there. because we seemed kind of crazy.

The Bob von Gibsonewitz school of War, except he was something else entirely. A decent human being, but opposing young players were counseled by veterans to not even look or stare at him when he was on the mound, like maybe he was a lion or a velociraptor out there who when eye contact was made, took that as reason to attack and eat you, with a baseball.

He had a reputation for hitting batters, purposely, but in reality, he hit very few during his career compared to many pitchers, because, number one, his control was so good that he could miss you at will by a quarter of an inch, and number two, he didn't have to because most hitters were ready to dive into a foxhole on every pitch.

My new favorite Gibson story was told by, I think, Pete Lacock, a first baseman for the Cubbies, whose distinction was hitting Bob Gibson's very last pitch in the major leagues for a grand slam home run to win the game.

Ten years later, Gibson and LaCock, now retired meet once again in a celebrity softball game, having never spoken before, each on opposing celebrity teams. Gibson's on the mound, lobbing softballs up there underhanded to the celebs.

LaCock stands in to the batter's box. Gibson winds up, and with the first pitch, now overhanded, still with mph on it you don't want to get on the way of, and conks LaCock right in ass.

Ten years Gibson had to wait to get even on his terms for that home run.

LaCock got it and respected it. He was in (shock and) awe.

This all by way of me responding to lj's Lasorda theme.

Anyway, this lot isn't driving away and those they hate, half the country, need to become Bob Gibson and have a long memory.

I'll say this to any conservative of the current stripe, visit my watering hole and act like a fucking asshole like Ted Cruz and trump and Leave It to Hawley/Haskell, and you won't know who or what hit you when you come to out on the sidewalk.

You'll think, they seemed like nice people, like pushovers, like we might be able to fuck with them.

There are still rules beyond the formal rules.

To end on another baseball note, one evening George Steinbrenner and Reggie Jackson got on an elevator at the hotel. A few minutes later, they got off, Jackson natty as always, Steinbrenner his collar and tie awry, and with a black eye.

Which one was the conservative bullying asshole with the mouth on him and which one was the guy who could summon his inner asshole when required?

Also for analytic purposes I don't think it makes sense to talk about "the protest" or "the insurrection" or "the coup attempt" if we want to figure out WTF happened.

There was a mob that was whipped up and sent the direction of the Capitol. (specifically whipped up against Pence) AND

There was a highly motivated militia or militias that had some sort of plan that were using the mob as cover. That is super clear from a number of videos. AND

Something potentially nefarious happened with the DoD re sending in the National Guard. AND

There were communications between the mob and/or militia and members of Congress while they were in session.

The first of this list is BAD, but it is absolutely vital that we get to the bottom of the DoD stuff, and the coordinating with Congress stuff. And after we get to the bottom of it, we absolutely must punish those people very harshly.

So until we research further I'm not sure HOW deep we need to go, but for sure we have to expel Cruz and Hawley from the Senate.

the 14thA seems like it might be a nice one to drop on their heads.

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

plus, that whole civil war tie-in is nice.

Sebastian, that was a good find.

The officer should be made Chief of the Capitol Hill Police and every day Congress is in session, every republican should have to ask his personal permission to enter the building and their offices.

He also needs to be tested for Covid-19, and if he has contracted the virus, when he recovers, he should find the republican f*ckers who deliberately infected him and Democrats with the deadly disease and use all of those implements he carries on his belt on their heads.

I can't see that this would be unprofessional behavior, given the standard set by right wing police forces and sheriffs across the country.

We can all play the sovereign game.

What Sebastian H said, both times.

I don't know where Marty gets the idea that the Sunday morning gabfests on TV are "news" shows.

The man Charlie Pierce called Clinton Guy Shocked by Blowjobs and whose name is spelled Stephanopoulos used to be one of those gabfest "hosts", long ago. His "guests", many of them Republicans or worse, tried their best NOT to "make news" while they gabbed, like all the guests on all the Sunday morning talk shows I ever watched. The reason I stopped watching them was that it was big news whenever a guest "made news", so I could learn about it in the, you know, news.

The trouble with "news", as in factual reporting of real events, is that reality has a well-known liberal bias. That seems to annoy some people.

--TP

As to the Defense Department complicity and republican office holders coordinating with armed militia during the coup, purge the conservative movement deep state, with force, if necessary.

Show them the door, and if they attempt to ever enter a federal government agency structure again, shoot them on sight.

As a former federal employee, I wouldn't be able to work in the same building with them without cold-cocking them.

It was enough that conservative movement McVeigh and his accomplices stalked the federal building my wife worked in pre-Oklahoma city.

We don't need them actually manning a desk in the buildings.

Speaking of which, I wonder if streiff of redstate and outed as a high GS level growth in the taxpayer's anus was involved in this, perhaps ready to unlock doors for terrorists to his federal building.

Biden's going to need more mustard on that ham sandwich to do what needs to be done.

I remember CNN being labeled the Communist News Network by Tom Delay. Is he dead yet? If not, why not?

Anyway, I perfectly understand FOX News forming themselves into the The Reich Ring for National Socialist Propaganda and Public Enlightenment under Hermann Murdoch Goering to proof once and for all that one side can do it better than the other.

Shut it.

The beaver shot blondes can get themselves a reality show, probably on CNN.

Trump's going to the Alamo.

Let's not just remember it, let's do it over again.

Case closed, except for when the Alamo Rental Car Agency in San Antonio informs his advance freaks that Santa Anna nabbed the last rental car.

Good responses. More of these, please.

A pretty f'ing heroic guy.

A message from Arnold.

A lot of my musician friends are drawing lines now. There is a non-trivial contingent of Trump supporters in professional music, ironically often in styles that are rooted in the American black community and experience.

Some of them were among Trump's army at the Capitol, some are at least supportive of that mob.

Folks are calling them out, in some cases ending personal and professional relationships.

It has to be made clear exactly how unacceptable this is. All of it, the whole package - Trump himself, and the toxic divisive ethos he's supported and encouraged.

When it starts costing these people something, some of them will wise up. Maybe.

Trump's going to the Alamo.

Ahahahahaha!!!!

See if we can get Waterloo on the itinerary.

I hope the out of work pro-Trump musicians retain full and expanded access to Obamacare to keep body and pea brains together.

Donors walking away will get politicians' attention like nothing else.

sorry, I see that most of what I posted had already been posted by others.

Should read before posting.

And yes, Sebastian basically nails it.

sorry, I see that most of what I posted had already been posted by others.

Should read before posting.

Some things can't really be said too often.

Thanks to trump, we have a headless, leaderless government and military.

If I were Russia and China, I'd attack now.

As it is, I'm merely me and I'm fucking terrified.

As I think Janie pointed out way up a thread, Trump and Republicans told us exactly what has happened would happen .. there would not be a peaceful transfer of power, for the first time in history, not that conservatives in past eras never gave it some thought.

See, we didn't believe the liars could tell the truth, or what they refer to as God's fascist truth.

Never be a metaphorist in a world run by literalists.

I've reached my bandwidth limit for 2021.

Does anyone have a link to the info Sebastian talks about re DOD and the National Guard, or collusive contact between insurrectionists and legislators in the chamber - i.e. insider insurrectionists? I don't know about these two stories. I'll go searching, but if anyone has easy access to info I would appreciate it.

How can both sides do it, when FOX News reporters aren't being threatened by death too by hippies.

"The mob massed together and rushed the officer, forcing open the door, and people flooded in. I ran upstairs to be out of the way of the crowd, and to get a better vantage point to document what was happening. Suddenly, two or three men in black surrounded me and demanded to know who I worked for.

Grabbing my press pass, they saw that my ID said The New York Times and became really angry. They threw me to the floor, trying to take my cameras. I started screaming for help as loudly as I could. No one came. People just watched. At this point, I thought I could be killed and no one would stop them. They ripped one of my cameras away from me, broke a lens on the other and ran away.

After that I was hyperventilating, unsure of what to do. I knew I needed to get away from the mob and hide my broken camera so I wouldn’t be targeted again. I ran into Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s suite, but people were vandalizing her office, so I kept moving. Walking out to her balcony facing west toward the National Mall, I saw a mass of people covering the inaugural stage. I found a spot to hide my camera in there, then stood watching the crowd from the balcony and filming from my phone, which was all I had left.

“This will be the start of a civil war revolution,” a man next to me said"

At the moment, we know maybe 9% of what went down and who did what and who conspired with who.

We won't believe the danger we are in at this very moment. We won't believe what the trump subhumans are doing to government and its functions in this fascist republican interim.

We are not going to believe who these people really are, and the huge conservative money that financed the first coup in American history, I mean, besides all of the other conservative coups contemplated by big dirty money in past eras.

We are not going to believe the number of executions that are required to approach the restoration of justice and law and order in this damaged country.

We are not going to believe what is going to be required of us.

GFTNC Here is a link to the interference with Hogan sending in the National Guard. I'm especially disturbed by even the reporting, because it is super clear that Hogan knows who told him not to deploy the national guard, but it doesn't appear in any of the articles.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/01/08/maryland-governor-describes-delayed-permission-to-send-national-guard/

Thank you Sebastian.

Here is a link suggesting that the FBI didn’t act immediately even though they knew the Capitol had been overrun.

Oops I didn’t include the link. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-capitol-siege/2021/01/09/e3ad3274-5283-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html

There were communications between the mob and/or militia and members of Congress while they were in session.

I have not seen anything about this one....time for a FISA warrant? What the hell.

No, I couldn't find that one either.

You know, I'm starting to worry that the outrage about this will die down, and the whole thing will become (somewhat) murky - e.g. I've just seen footage of a police officer opening a door and inviting the insurrectionists in, which some of the twitterati say exculpates those ones. I hope to God I'm wrong and just being paranoid, but like I said earlier, I keep thinking about the Bundys. And the Republican senators etc who need to keep condemning it, as well as Pence, are so thoroughly contaminated by their previous collusion that it's hard to see how they thread that needle

You know, I'm starting to worry that the outrage about this will die down

No, that will not happen. You were also glooming and dooming about Georgia polls predicting doom and gloom. Please be supportive.

Things are going to be rough. We're going to have more of this - they're planning something for the 19th, I think (or maybe the 17th - whatever). Things are going to be rough even after Biden is inaugurated. We can't be having gloom and doom oracles. Thanks!

By the way, gloom and doom is justified, for sure. We're in a horrible place. We need to know the facts, and figure out how to meet them head on.

Much maligned salt of the earth hairdresser in flyover America's heartland finds this video, click on the link.

https://juanitajean.com/oathkeepers-filing-into-the-capitol/

She is sure to be shouted down by coastal republican elites as not worthy of speech and opinions.

But what were the Oath Keepers planning as they filed up the Capitol steps? Who signaled, and from where, that THAT moment was the time to enter the Capitol Building en masse like a SWAT team?

To do what with what they are carrying?

Last question for today. Why weren't they gunned down on the streets in Ferguson several years ago when threatening black people with military weaponry in civilian America?

Just like the Bundys.

Not dealt with when we had them right where we wanted them.

Boebert live-tweeted from inside. Rawstory, FWIW.

Regarding ‘communication’, there is this...
https://twitter.com/AndrewFeinberg/status/1348308964979716104

FWIW.

Note there has not been a single briefing from Federal authorities about the events. Four days later.
It’s like they’re not even bothering to pretend.

I am not 100% confident this is yet over.
95% maybe.

There we go.

Not even sworn in yet and she gets to swear on a useless Bible to tell the truth in front of a jury regarding sedition, conspiracy, and attempted murder charges.

Hell of a week for the fake cowgirl.

When a conservative packs a weapon on their hip inappropriately in inappropriately places, assume they mean to kill.

I'll take a burger and a shot, ma'm. Hold the gunfire, you gormless twit.

By the way, Bruce Baugh's 11:01 am regarding the law suit by voting machine maker Dominion is highly readable.

In Denver, where Dominion is based, many of their management and employees have had to lay low in lock down because of death threats by conservative movement republicans targeting them and their families/children.

If she's not punished to the full extent of the law, if American can figure out what the law without conservatives pointing to another law saying the exact opposite thing, Colorado is great hunting grounds for game like her.

No, that will not happen. You were also glooming and dooming about Georgia polls predicting doom and gloom. Please be supportive.

Don't tell (or ask) me how to be.

Don't tell (or ask) me how to be.

Then feel free ... to not be supportive.

I have no duty to be supportive, to you or anybody else. And I would be surprised if another person on this site thought that I should be, or that I wasn't being. I could be wrong, and it doesn't matter anyway. I be me, you be you.

JanieM and Nigel, thanks for those two links.

I have no duty to be supportive, to you or anybody else.

Absolutely correct. Be worried.

Be worried.

Again with the instructions, or perhaps the permissions. When will you realise how inappropriate this sort of thing is?

I'm going to bed.

Fin.

The House - or at least the Democrats in the House - plan to move fast. Speaker Pelosi sent out a letter to her caucus stating that the impeachment process will begin in the morning... AND she is soliciting their opinions on not only the 25th Amendment, but also on Article 14 Sec. 3.

Article 14 Sec. 3 of the Constitution states that people who have engaged in insurrection or rebellion cannot be seated as members of Congress.

This should be... interesting.

You're finally worried about the Nazis, GftNC. Goodnight.

I haven’t been around often enough to feel like I can be a moderator anymore, but as a person: let’s take a breath.

A good Fallows article
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/biden-must-look-forward-rest-us-must-contend-past/617625/

Goodnight all.

Trump-The Pariah...even the PGA.

Goodness gracious. Must be getting serious.

Reactions ripple in the most unlikely places. In an iRacing event where the contestants put various themes on their (virtual) cars, tonight has one titled The Homeless Despot. It includes a display of all the platforms which have banned Trump.
https://24hoursoflemons.com/wtf-onlineracing/

This is not a political crowd. But tonight, that car is getting lots of praise.

Boebert live-tweeted from inside. Rawstory, FWIW.

WT actual F.

I haven’t been around often enough to feel like I can be a moderator anymore, but as a person: let’s take a breath.

Your unflappable nature and inherent and unswayable sense of fairness entitles you to moderate any time you like.

Not a requirement for participating, just an open invitation. FWIW I consider you to be safe hands in any situation.

Feel free to weigh in at will.

I am not 100% confident this is yet over.

I am absolutely 100% confident it is not.

These maniacs took their obvious shot, and it failed, so it will probably be harder for them to try something quite this overt any time soon. But I'm sure they're making plans for the next couple of weeks, and for after that as well.

There's nothing all that new about this goons, the only difference now is that Trump has given them credibility through his acceptance and even encouragement of their activity.

If we want this nation to continue as such, there needs to be a forceful response. Not forceful as in violent, but effective, thorough, and uncompromising.

Uncompromising.

These people offer no compromise, none should be offered to them.

Trump needs to go. People have different opinions about how to deal with folks they know who support him, personally I'm in zero tolerance mode. There is no excuse at this point for continuing to support the guy.

That may alienate some folks, and I'm OK with that.

These motherfuckers were hunting Congresspeople in the Capitol with zip ties and firearms, while they were receiving the electoral vote count and effecting the peaceful transfer of power.

If that isn't a bridge too far, there isn't one.

Plow Trump and Trumpism under and salt the earth where it once stood.

PGA is instituting a lifetime ban for any new events at Trump properties.

It's only what he's brought down on his own head.

Republicans have been using labels to divide and marginalize for decades as a deliberate and cynical tactic. Pro-life, pro-family are the obvious examples. This election year they used socialist a lot. It's very Orwellian--dumb the discourse down so that there are literally no words to describe non-Republicans except demeaning, marginalizing words.

SO on an emotional level, I want to label them right back. ALl of them. ANd I want to do it for the same reason they have done it to the rest of us: to marginalize them. To paint them in a color that will keep them rejected for years to come.

But that's an emotional response and it is sometimes unfair and likely not effective anyway. I do think your average R voter is of the same ilk as the people who supported Hitler, Franco, Mussolini and other authoritarian demagogues but I don't think it does much good to say so. After all ,in the end, we have to live with them, so the hope is that somehow some of them might come back to reason.

But I do think that the leaders should be correctly labeled. Trump is an authoritarian demagogue. Most of the Republicans in Congress are authoritarians too. They wanted to game the system to end representative government through gerrymandering voter suppression and court packing and were happy to use hate and fearmongering to get elected. They are only turning on Trump now because he finally went too far for them and they are afraid he will screw up their reelection chances. If the Dems hadn't won GA, they would be making excuse for him or actively supporting the riots

As it is most are making a calculation: is their district so fascist that they have to stay pro-TRump? Or do they have some suburbs and some moderate voters and therefore should maybe indicate that attacking the capital was not a good idea?

SO cowards, unprincipled hacks, Quislings, collaborators..yeah I don't mind calling them fascists. Make them defensive. Make them explain themselves. Hurt their feelings. Let them know what they really are

And the few R's in COngress that are actually articulating opposition to Trump by speaking in terms of his violations of the law and his disrespect for facts and his promotion of violence--I think they can be labelled as principled, honorable people. I think that maybe four or five of such Republicans exist in Congress.

For the most part the decent people have already left the party.

"What I am consistently struck by in all of this is the bizarre and detached-from-reality sense of entitlement that the folks involved all express. They are 'we the people', the 'real Americans'. The patriots. And they are therefore entitled to reverse the expressed will of everyone else in the country."

That's the message the Republican party has been using for decades, That's the message of the Republican propaganda network from Faux to Newsmax. That's what every Republican politician runs on to get elected, tho some are more blatant about it than others. That's why the whole party is authoritarian.

I do think your average R voter is of the same ilk as the people who supported Hitler, Franco, Mussolini and other authoritarian demagogues but I don't think it does much good to say so.

I think we need to say so, because it's true. We've been hands-across-the-watering for a long time, and it's gotten us real-life fascism. They're not interested in our compassion.

+1 for the PGA.

Every organization should emulate them: a lifetime ban on any event, any conference, any anything on any Trump property. Worldwide.

These people offer no compromise, none should be offered to them.

No mercy.

"What I am consistently struck by in all of this is the bizarre and detached-from-reality sense of entitlement that the folks involved all express."

Possible explanation here?

Interesting lessons for America from Japanese history?

Trump is an authoritarian demagogue. Most of the Republicans in Congress are authoritarians too. They wanted to game the system to end representative government through gerrymandering voter suppression and court packing and were happy to use hate and fearmongering to get elected. They are only turning on Trump now because he finally went too far for them and they are afraid he will screw up their reelection chances.

I agree with every word of this.

The Japanese history link provided by bobbyp is apropos. The problem is that it is like dealing with COVID: Every reaction seems like an overreaction, until it isn't.

I believe we have reached the "it isn't" inflection point.

Folks have finally had enough of this crap.

Some interesting free speech issues here, maybe, but nobody's telling these jerks they can't talk. Cumulus is just telling them they're not gonna pay them for that kind of talk.

Glad to see people waking the hell up.

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