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May 03, 2020

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lj, thanks for that.

Similarly with "Black and Tan" (see from wiki below). There's a bar in Augusta, Maine, named the Black and Tan and AFAICT the owners meant it to be an "Irish" pub. I mean........sheesh.

The name "Black and Tan" is not used in Ireland as a term for a mixture of two beers. The drink is instead referred to as a half and half.[1] Indeed, the drink has image problems in Ireland and elsewhere due to the association with the Royal Irish Constabulary Reserve Force, nicknamed the "Black and Tans", which was sent into Ireland in the early 1920s.[1] As a result, in Ireland the name is seen as contentious and disrespectful.[6]

In March 2006, Ben and Jerry's released an ice cream flavour in the United States for Saint Patrick's Day inspired by the drink; the name offended Irish nationalists because of the paramilitary association. Ben and Jerry's has since apologised. A spokesman told Reuters, "Any reference on our part to the British Army [sic] unit was absolutely unintentional and no ill will was ever intended."[7] In March 2012, the drink's name once more came into the news when Nike, as part of an Irish themed set of designs, released a pair of shoes advertised as the "Black and Tan" and generating offence similar to the earlier Ben and Jerry's ice cream.[8]

Back in the day, when I would order such things in bars, a Black and Tan was half Guinness and half Bass Ale (an English ale). A Half and Half was half Guinness and half Harp Lager (an Irish lager brewed by the brewers of Guinness). And the places I recall drinking them in were English-style pubs like Dickens' Inn and The Artful Dodger.

Kinda-sorta related, a friend of mine worked at McGillin's Olde Ale House and wore and orange shirt to work on St. Patrick's Day, having no idea that it had any meaning. (Not sure why she didn't wear green.) She was fired on the spot.

Also kinda-sorta related...though far off-topic...

My little Catholic high school in the sixties had, at a very rough guess, 1/3 Italian-Americans, 1/3 Irish-Americans, and 1/3 other. There was a small group of kids who would come to school on St. Patrick's Day wearing a bit of orange (not much; we wore uniforms). I don't think they really had a clue what it implied, they were just trying to wind up their Irish friends.

these days, "Irish" pubs are prefabricated. they might have been authentically fabricated in Ireland, however.

There is (at least) one of those in my general vicinity. It's place that's been around for a while in different iterations with different ownership. The previous versions were all slick, modern bar-restaurants where you would expect to drink different kinds of martinis and champagne cocktails and eat sushi-based dishes. It's not too close, so not a place I would even drive past with any frequency, so it's most recent transformation seemed very sudden to me.

It was turned completely into a relatively upscale but warm and cozy Irish pub. Every square inch of the place, inside and out, is now "Irish." Looking at the photos at cleek's link, it has to be one of those prefab imports. The resemblances are uncanny.

We happened to be in the area after a doctor's appointment or something a year or two ago and were in somewhat desperate need of lunch. Suddenly, there was an Irish pub, so we pulled in. It was fake, but it was good.

Top ten? There shouldn't even be ten. Humans...

https://allianceforscience.cornell.edu/blog/2020/04/covid-top-10-current-conspiracy-theories/

And that Cornell article is dated April 20. He could probably write up the top 100 by this time.

With a tiny whiff of another cultural appropriation meme. H/t Anne Laurie at BJ.

Cultural appropriation is a big topic, too big for this morning. But I will say this: pubs in Ireland, as distinct from "Irish" pubs in America, have (or at least had, as of when I was going there a lot, which was a while ago) an indefinable air of shabbiness that I doubt can be reproduced by design. And it was a particularly Irish shabbiness, not to be mistaken for anything you'd find in the diners or bars of the back roads of, let's just say, western Pennsylvania or northeastern Ohio.

We happened to be in the area after a doctor's appointment or something a year or two ago and were in somewhat desperate need of lunch. Suddenly, there was an Irish pub, so we pulled in. It was fake, but it was good.

when Mrs wife and i were in Japan a few years ago, we were exhausted after a hard day of travel and touring so we found one of those Irish pubs right around the corner from our hotel and watched a bunch of Japanese kids playing traditional Irish music while we ate fish n chips and drank Guinness.

knowing exactly what you're going to get, no matter where you are, is exactly what you need sometimes.

"It was fake, but it was good."

Trump wins, Trump wins!

knowing exactly what you're going to get, no matter where you are, is exactly what you need sometimes

I found that this phenomenon made it much easier to travel with kids. ;-)

For a long time, Subway was our go-to stop. I felt that it was a tiny step up from McD's, but maybe that was just wishful thinking.

At least with Subway, there's a chance of some flavor in what you get. Maybe even some food value.

I think the decor in many Chinese restaurants comes in a kit too.

Some of them even receive koi to place in a little burbling pond in the lobby. But koi are Japanese, aren't they?

Just like Covid-19 is the common flu cold and you know who is the greatest President ever.

Why, because Americans say so and we're buying it, and who's to say different, but if do have something different, tell it to my gun here.

If you want authenticity, stick to McDonald's and Burger King.

Cracker Barrel is "just like" the joints where John Jay would repair to safe harbor from the constant damning. I think they have cracker barrels on site, but there are no cracker in them.

They were all-American originalist chintzy knockoffs from the getgo.

Janie asked the question days ago: "When did we all become consumers rather than citizens?", I think it was.

You could do worse than read Walker Percy's "Lost In The Cosmos -- The Last Self-Help Book for inquiry into the answer to that question.

"The self in the twentieth century is a voracious nought which expands like the feeding vacuole of an amoeba seeking to nourish and inform its own nothingness by ingesting new objects in the world but, like a vacuole, only succeeds in emptying them out.”

Like Seinfeld's "what's with that" routines, Percy gives examples and scratches his existential head over them.

Why do upscale Americans purchase renovated slave quarters in southern American towns, and live in them?

You could ask the same about luxury bomb-shelter missile silos.

After rattling off a Martha Stewart-like list for making a funky coffee table from non-traditional materials, he asks, "Why was not a single table designed as such, rather than being a non-table doing duty as a table?" After suggesting that people have gotten tired of regular tables, or that converted non-tables make good conversation pieces etc. etc.

Why do non-cobblers buy a cobbler's bench and use it as a breakfast nook table. There's not a cobbler within a thousand miles.

You might well ask, in the same vein, why in the suburbs of Denver you can come across housing developments with streets named after Cape Cod beach towns.

On Cape Cod, I'll bet you there is a Pikes Peak Lane.

Why were some astronauts so depressed after returning from the room, even to the point of taking up drinking as a pastime?

Why do many combat veterans recall, despite the murderous savagery they witnessed on the battlefield, those moments as the only time in their lives that they felt totally and authentically alive?

No American (OK, some) wants to be where they are at any particular moment. A very un-Thoreauean thought.

Why, after 20- or 30-whatever years of living in your own skin, do you look to personality tests to reveal who you really are?

Percy.

He wrote the book in the form of a self-help document because his essays and novels really didn't get that much of an audience, so he went way down market.

To which Americans, generally speaking, answered like Alvy Singer's mother regarding her son's anxiety over whether the universe is expanding or not:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U1-OmAICpU

And then Dr Flickr is noticed by a TV producer for his making up a bunch of bogus bullshit and gets his own TV show, and like asshole Dr. Phil goes in to make millions in horseshit America asking why should we take special precautions during a fucking pandemic, rather than going on with our daily lives filling the empty vacuoles of ourselves, when we do nothing about the tens of thousands killing each other or themselves with guns, and the tens of thousands or more who are killed and scragged every year in traffic accidents, and the millions have no insurance and access to healthcare, and the tens of thousands who die of the regular flu every year.

Washing our hands is no replacement for doing what the fuck we please.

True, regarding all of those needless killings and deaths, busybody liberals propose from time to time various solutions to each of the everyday meat grinders we subject ourselves to and we're told to shut our politically correct traps and buy shit, usually by highly reasonable sounding maniacs who point out cost benefit analyses they jotted down on a napkin and here, if you don't believe that, here's an algorithm Elon Musk came up with that will explain everything, which trump will quote, mispronouncing the word "algorithm" and maybe even thinking it means that Al Gore can't dance.

The least that Irish pubs in America or anywhere else could do is hire barkeeps who can fake an Irish brogue and once in a while hire female barkeeps who are lookalikes for Maureen O'Hara and who you find difficulty social distancing from.


I think the decor in many Chinese restaurants comes in a kit too.

also while we were in Japan, we stopped at an Indian restaurant. we got to talking with the waiter, an Indian man. and he told us that he had gone to something like an "Indian Restaurant Waiter School" in India and that a lot of Indian restaurants are package deals - just like the Chinese places. you get the menu, the recipes, decor and trained staff.

makes sense.

astronauts returned from the "moon" .....

I can't pay my hospital bill, and whitey's on the room.

Pete Hegseth gets anywhere near me or my loved ones or my friends and I'll put a bullet in his head and then hunt down his Christian herd of subhuman children...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U1-OmAICpU

I mean, look, if Sean Hanitty can compare the salon owner who was given a week in the hoose gow for violating shutdown guidelines to William Wallace being disemboweled in Braveheart, I can threaten whatever I fucking like.

Republicans want bloody Civil War, though they would settle for their enemies .. ME .. dying of the Covid-19.

One can hope and yes, I can project just as well as the Republican Party (which won't do; a thousand times more might work to destroy them):

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a32388472/ohios-mike-dewine-covid-19-work-refusals-report/

Meanwhile, Deep State Switzerland is wrong about kids and the Covid:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/kids-are-now-showing-strange-symptoms-of-coronavirus-but-experts-say-it-remains-exceptionally-uncommon-172951808.html

My son's Chemistry Department Head's (Columbia University, were he earned his doctorate) wife suffered from and tested positive for the virus in New York. She has recovered, but days after she started showing symptoms, he and their two teenagers came down with the virus as well, yes recovered.

Believe nothing conservatives tell us.

After all, America is a mere money-making vanity project for them to commit genocide on:

"In a way, by doing all this testing we make ourselves look bad,” — Donald Trump, Wednesday

Insurrectionary Civil War.

It's already started and it is violent. And this pandemic is what it looks like, for now.

Republicans and conservatives started it.

Anything we do in response is self defense.

That first site at 2:17pm about Pete Hegseth threatening me with death should be this:

https://www.eschatonblog.com/2020/05/your-family-first-big-guy.html

The second cite at 2:17pm should be this:

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-personal-assistant-valet-positive-covid-19

This would be a good time for a conspiracy theory confirming what's already out there, that there is a vaccine and only a few choice vermin Republicans, including Pence and Trump have received it.

The rest of us can fucking die.

Meanwhile, look who the government IS protecting:

https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-hosts-received-priority-treatment-for-ppe-requests-2020-5

Can't let the subhuman lying propaganda mouthpieces get struck down by this thing, while there is so much conservative lying, cheating, thieving and killing to do.

But DeWine can kiss my ass as well.

America, you had better kill me.

Republicans want bloody Civil War, though they would settle for their enemies .. ME .. dying of the Covid-19.

Just to be clear, that's Republican politicians. Plus their co-dependent media and the occasional RWNJ militia members.

One of the fascinating features of this whole affair is that, while they will say they think Trump is doing well, the actual masses of Republicans are pretty much in sync with the rest of the population regarding

  • the need to follow expert advice when dealing with the situation,
  • the need for lockdowns,
  • the need to be careful when gradually opening up again,
  • the urgency of providing Federal funds to states, cities, etc., and
  • most other issues around dealing with the virus.
They do gripe more about the lockdowns,and other measures to deal with the virus. But they overwhelmingly follow the directions, just like everybody else.

And I'm starting to see speculation about the long (actual medium) term political impact of the disconnect between the politicians and their supporters. Especially if, as seems likely, those politicians' actions blow up in their faces.

If they have a seisun on the weekends that's early enough for the whole family to show up - and the whole family shows up - and they have Irish breakfast on Sunday after church with black pudding, greasy fried eggs, and good bread, and there's soccer on the TV during the Irish breakfast, then it's an Irish pub.

Anybody can pull a pint of Guiness.

This would be a good time for a conspiracy theory confirming what's already out there, that there is a vaccine and only a few choice vermin Republicans, including Pence and Trump have received it.

Except that the story I read said that Trump went into total freak-out mode when he discovered that someone near him had tested positive. If they had a vaccine, or a treatment, Trump would have demanded that everybody around him get it. Germophobe that he notoriously is.

the actual masses of Republicans are pretty much in sync with the rest of the population regarding

TBH, among conservatives I know, there is no mass of support for the status quo. A lot of them see it as Government Stepping On Their Rights, a lot of them think the risk is way overblown, many of them think it's time for the population as a whole to take the hit and get it over with.

It's weird talking with them about any of this. I'm having a lot of "who the hell are you?" moments.

He faked the freak-out.

Plus, he thought he was going to contract polio, not having heard of the Covid-19.

And if he was so afraid of germs, why doesn't he wash his hands after every trip to his solid-gold shitter?

"Trump would have demanded that everybody around him get it."

No, he wouldn't. If he is already inoculated, his underlings disappearing with the Covid would relieve him of having to fire them a few weeks down the road for unspecified crimes.

Unless their faces are mirrors reflecting his high-esteem image back at him, he doesn't give a shit whether they live or die.

"One of the fascinating features of this whole affair is that ...."

Fascinating, you say.

This was fascinating:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueAYUp4rHZI

One of Joe Exotic's underlings having her arm chewed off at the elbow by an abused tiger was fascinating.

This whole affair is unspeakably despicable and has disgraced each and every one of us in the eyes of the world.

South Korea is America. Canada is America.

America is dead and the Republican Party murdered it.


the future is also a foreign country where the DOJ declines to press charges against members of the POTUS' staff, even though they've pled guilty.

Although, actually, except for the "pled guilty" part, there's some history there.

Sorry, but rule of law is now a joke. Been that way for a while, certainly since Nixon's pardon and the free pass for the Iran-Contra crew.

If yer gonna do the crimes, go big.

TBH, among conservatives I know, there is no mass of support for the status quo. A lot of them see it as Government Stepping On Their Rights, a lot of them think the risk is way overblown, many of them think it's time for the population as a whole to take the hit and get it over with.

Yes, they're saying stuff like that. But look at what they're actually doing. It's easy to show solidarity by mouthing off. But actually do things that are dangerous? Much less attractive.

We can break law we wish to now.

No limits.

Just as in war.

Fuck you conservatives.

But actually do things that are dangerous? Much less attractive.

Yeah, they pretty much want other people to do the things that are dangerous.

Some of them miss going to church. Other than that, they personally are not in a hurry to gather in large groups, etc.

None of them work retail, none are waitstaff, none are cops or nurses. None work in any kind of human service role that requires face-to-face work.

FWIW, none of the musicians I know are in a hurry to end the lockdown, even though it's basically brought their livelihoods to a halt. They're frustrated, and they miss playing with other people, but they're cool with the rules.

Just another social fault line.

Yes, they're saying stuff like that. But look at what they're actually doing. It's easy to show solidarity by mouthing off. But actually do things that are dangerous? Much less attractive.

To irritate a couple of acquaintances, I used to point out that if we did away with the social safety net the way they wanted to, they weren't nearly rich enough to pay for individual care for their widowed mother. And that it was good that they had bought the McMansion, because grandma would be living upstairs. Or they could explain to their kids that they were just going to let grandma die, because Social Security and Medicare taxes were such an incredible burden.

Those were the days when at some point I said quietly to myself, "Mike, you're not nearly as nice a person as you would like to think you are."

the actual masses of Republicans are pretty much in sync with the rest of the population regarding ... But they overwhelmingly follow the directions, just like everybody else.

oh my, no.

45% of Republicans don't wear face masks in public. vs 90% of Dems.

43% of Republicans are 'sheltering at home', vs 87% of Dems.

i went to Lowes this past week, and probably 90% of the people there weren't wearing masks of any kind.

Those big brawny armed pussy conservatives hauling around military grade weaponry in the demonstrations haven't offered to take a job in the meatpacking plants cutting up my pork chops, have they?

Get to work, ladies!

They'd love to hang around outside the plants with or without masks and harass, perhaps shoot immigrants as they kick the latter's asses out of the country.

Where's my beef, they'll bellow, when their abused raped wives serve them macaroni and cheese.

Trump is now accusing hospitals and health departments of lying about the numbers of the dead.

His poll numbers are climbing which sums up the vermin subhuman half of America.

Too bad this human being can't have his case dropped:

https://wcti12.com/news/nation-world/man-shot-dead-while-out-for-a-jog-family-demands-arrests-2-months-later

Too bad this guy cant be pardoned after being murdered by black Trump libertarian gun-toting republicans.

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/4th-family-member-charged-after-flint-security-guard-murdered-over-face-mask-dispute

Too bad this black Republican filth entitled to her cheeseburger watches too much FOX News:

https://www.koco.com/article/police-identify-woman-accused-of-firing-shots-at-mcdonalds-after-she-was-told-dining-room-was-closed/32403518#

When I fully covered up to go witness conservative libertarian assholes demonstrate their Covid-spreading talents in Denver, as I rode my bike home, I looked to the side and there was a homeless soul with all of his stuff in a grocery cart.

HE was wearing a mask. HE wasn't carrying a weapon.

I gave him ten bucks.

"Mike, you're not nearly as nice a person as you would like to think you are."

Were they nice back?

Unlike Flynn, the murdered Trayvon Martins in this pig country weren't even given a chance to plead guilty first before the bullets flew.

William Barr will be hung by his neck.

We'll even give him a trial.

Those big brawny armed pussy conservatives hauling around military grade weaponry in the demonstrations haven't offered to take a job in the meatpacking plants cutting up my pork chops, have they?

Get to work, ladies!

They'd love to hang around outside the plants with or without masks and harass, perhaps shoot immigrants as they kick the latter's asses out of the country.

Has it ever occurred to you to wonder, just how do those guys make a living? How do they keep food on the table?

Maybe being an armed protester pays better than I realize....

i went to Lowes this past week, and probably 90% of the people there weren't wearing masks of any kind.

That's f**king insane. I don't think you can enter a place like that without a mask around here. I haven't been to Lowes, but anywhere I've gone for last however-many weeks, everyone was wearing a mask.

I will say, my Republican neighbors (and I know who they are) don't seem to be isolating to nearly the degree that we are. Their kids are out playing with other kids that don't even live in our neighborhood. I've seen neighbors going into each other's houses. No masks in either case, mind you.

I can't really be sure when the last time someone else was in our house. Some time in March, maybe?

DOJ is dropping case against Flynn.

WTAF? Does this mean all charges dropped? No emojis, punctuation marks or acronyms are adequate, let alone those mainstays of a bygone age, words.

OTOH, i went to the grocery store on the nicer side of town this week, most people, including staff, were wearing masks.

different clientele.

No emojis, punctuation marks or acronyms are adequate, let alone those mainstays of a bygone age, words.

ain't it wild?

turns out, norms aren't very meaningful when 90% of a political party is in thrall to the leader of that party.

the GOP is a cult.

How do these guys make a living?

Their wives work. Two jobs.

But the guys steal the money out of their wives' purses to buy bullets and give the rest to their girlfriends, who happen to be the wives of their brothers, or maybe the girlfriends are their step mothers.

Following the Ayn Rand example, they are on food stamps, disability, medicaid, and whatever socialism they can game from the VA, in other words, they have no faith in government whatsoever and if government puts its hands on their government bennies, why, it's showtime for the government deep administrative state gooks.

The only private sector capitalism they practice is letting payday loan joints crib 25% off the top of their disability checks, their disabilities being incontinence, infertility, with a touch of amnesia about what they didn't do in the Mekong Delta, and erectile dysfunction with their gun, not to be confused with projectile dysfunction with their weapon.

They also run up a tab at the their local bar, which they are secretly glad is closed so the bartenders aren't able to ask when they might be paying that there tab you've run up, buster.

But they can drink free at their mothers' houses.

The Mayor of Denver just mandated the wearing of masks in all establishments. The cool thing now is that when I punch the guy's lights out who is giving some hapless clerk in the store shit about having to wear a mask, when the cops arrive, everyone will say they don't know who I am because I was wearing a mask, like everyone else standing there, except the Trump asshole, and I'm just blending in smiling with my eyes.

Yep. The differences in clientele are telling.

Local Trader Joe's across from campus - mostly students and university affiliates - almost everyone is masked and everyone not masked is assumed to have valid reasons for not doing so.

Local liquor chain store on the other side of the highway from campus on the edge of a bunch of gated communities: half the clientele is masked, half is not. Masked clientele is mostly older and driving luxury vehicles or hybrids. Unmasked clientele are mostly driving fancy contractor trucks (the fancy, foreman types, not the ones that actually haul anything) and looking at the masked customers as if they are all a bunch of snowflakes. They also can't be bothered to wait for another customer or one of the workers there to get out of an area before grabbing what they want.

https://juanitajean.com/the-story-out-of-texas/

Fuck you racist vermin conservatives.

I love it when a black judge goes all law and order on white entitled filth.

I hope that Judge carries a weapon and uses it when confronted by white snowflake republican politico operatives on the street.

I think I've finally arrived at a point where I understand what the Second Amendment is there for.

The first comment to your juanitajean link says:

is it time for the Federal Gov’t to take over the State of Texas, and declare it an outlaw state?
But obviously not. It will be so much more satisfying if Texas just turns blue sooner rather than later. I'm quite OK with the Texans (the real ones, not the wild west wannabes) cleaning their own house.

In the foreign country that is the future, state legislators are accompanied to their offices by volunteer private militias, as a safety measure against the volunteer private militias that threaten them.

The guy who organized this is apparently a Lansing firefighter. Anthony is likely his rep. Apparently he saw the BS on the TV and decided it wouldn't stand.

It will be interesting to see how he ends up being evaluated by the conservative calculus. Firefighter, so - hero!! Plus, open carrying, so - freedom fighter! But, defending a state rep from other hero freedom fighters. Huh?

It must be very confusing.

Gee, it was awfully quiet as that rep and her posse walked to work to serve the public interest:

https://harpers.org/archive/2020/04/good-guys-with-guns-socialist-gun-club/

I certainly hope no white right wingers' free loudmouthed speech was queered by the show of force.

I have a plan.

The Subhuman in Chief is murdering blacks while he wastes my hard-earned tax dollars painting his wall his favorite color:

https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2020/05/a-leader-to-lead-the-nation

Do something, conservatives and libertarians. If your guns weren't manufactured to be used at this moment in American history against tyranny, then shove your masks up your asses.

Shhh, show no emotion as the alien subhumans distribute death among us in order to cross state lines to get a perm or visit that strip club:

https://digbysblog.net/2020/05/maga-will-spread-the-virus/

Yever notice how conservative republican dogs look like their owners:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktEW65QQFgQ

Too late:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRVfGMjdGh8

Maybe a glimpse of the future

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/whats-south-koreas-secret/611215/

South Korea is showing America that old can-do spirit, that we can face our challenges and together defeat them, instead of projecting what Americans think Asians would do, not giving a shit about the value of human life, but it is we who think that way of course.

The Flynn thing has rocked me badly. How stupid of me, not to have realised before. Without realising it, I must have been subconsciously expecting that if the Dems win the White House, and please God the senate, in November, it's not too late to repair things. But it probably is too late. Too many people are just fine with what's been happening. I feel more heartbroken than I have since the Kavanaugh hearings. I guess in a way russell has been saying as much for a while. America is probably irrevocably broken.

I guess in a way russell has been saying as much for a while. America is probably irrevocably broken.

Haha.

russell is saying let's all be different countries! Let's all be United States Brexit! Let's all be Putin's dream!

I say: the majority of the people support something other than what's going on. Let's not let it happen.

It's pretty hard, right? It's an existential moment. Remember when y'all said you'd fight for America when that happened? Do it. We need to figure out the leadership, then follow it. Now.

Personally, I said during the campaign that if Trump was elected it posed an existential threat to America. The words were right, but somehow I had not foreseen quite how fast institutions could crumble and fall apart. It seems, like Humpty Dumpty, impossible to see how it can be put back together again. Doesn't mean people shouldn't fight, say not the struggle naught availeth, etc etc. But fuck, I can't see how.

I'm pretty sure russell has written no such thing. Not knowing exactly how to avoid something isn't the same as wanting it to happen.

By the way, don't blame Biden or "the DNC". They're used to playing by the old rules,. They need to nod to the old rules because that's kind of what we're fighting for. But we, the People - those who make up the majority of the country (and a supermajority who are hoping to fight the virus by staying home) need bad ass people to fight. We are them.

How're we going to do it? JanieM pointed out that I am not a leader, too mean to be convincing to anyone here. You? Anybody?

And, in case it's not obvious, I mean all this in a sense in a not party political way. At the moment the Trumpistas have captured the GOP and America, so it would have to be the Dems to try to begin the repair. But, for example, I imagine the Rs in the Lincoln Project would have many of the same essential aims, regarding rule of law, due process etc. I am talking about decent people versus crooks, traitors and corrupt thugs, not Ds versus Rs.

I'm pretty sure russell has written no such thing.

russell can speak for himself, does so eloquently, and does so inspiringly.

It is, perhaps, my fault that I interpret his repeated calls for "we want different things" and maybe we aren't one country, and maybe it would be much better if you go your way and I go mine, as a call to divide up.

I stand to be corrected.

But fuck, I can't see how.

My father was a fighter pilot before, on, and after D-Day. He lost half of his colleagues. We fucking haven't even tried.

Graphs updated to today.

I am talking about decent people versus crooks, traitors and corrupt thugs, not Ds versus Rs.y

Glad you're finding words, finally. I would call them fascists, or maybe Nazis. Is it a shorthand. Maybe. Maybe not quite the last angel on the head of a pin. But pretty f'ing close.

Time to see them for what they are, and treat them accordingly. And hash out the semantics for 2030 when maybe (because there are no guarantees) we've fought hard, lost some battles, but finally won.

You? Anybody?

I'm assuming this is meant for Americans. As I have said innumerable times in the past, sapient, more power to you in your continuing efforts to fight the good fight. But I am truly losing heart when I see how vast is the damage. Maybe I'll feel less apocalyptic tomorrow, but right now it feels to me like Ozymandias.

I am not finding words, finally. I am using the words I have always used, just not the words you wanted me to use. Stop this, sapient. I am too heartsick for one of your ridiculous fights.

As I have said innumerable times in the past, sapient, more power to you in your continuing efforts to fight the good fight. But I am truly losing heart when I see how vast is the damage.

Thanks. Losing heart, daily, is the zeitgeist. Means we have to woman up and fight. That means solidarity, speaking not with "my voice" but finding "our voice" and figuring out how to use it.

Do I know how? As everyone here has informed me, no. I'm urging you all to help figure it out.

It's two thirty in the morning here, and I have been having this conversation on my phone in bed. I'm switching off, and hoping, like Scarlett O'Hara, that tomorrow is another day. Good night, all.

I am too heartsick for one of your ridiculous fights.

I am not fighting with you. If so, the fights are not mine. Let's do fight against the common enemy, and leave behind our heartsickness. We know what we love, and need to fight for it. It should do our hearts good to figure out what we hold in common, and a strategy to move forward. What we have lacked is a name for the enemy and a strategy to conquer them.

"Republican" sounds like Abraham Lincoln, but Republicans today are more like Mussolini or Hitler. So I'm fine with calling them words for what modern people think of as racist, anti-democratic strongmen.

Whatever better tools you have, go for it! As everyone here has pointed out, I have failed. But please do go for it. Don't say, "Oh my! What a shame! Let's me and our neighbors have a good day, and let the other folks fry!"

russell can speak for himself

Then stop speaking for him.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/5/7/1943358/-Republican-fraudsters-caught-on-audio-targeting-Dr-Fauci-with-fake-sexual-assault-claims

They will stop at nothing.

We need a Lincoln.

But first .....

Then stop speaking for him.

He can correct whatever I say that's wrong. I invite him to do so. I implore him to do so.

russell is saying let's all be different countries! Let's all be United States Brexit! Let's all be Putin's dream!

Look, sapient, if you are going to misread russell that badly, I'm not sure that anything he can say will be understandable to you. I on the other hand, will explain this. If you don't give it a rest, I'll give you some time to think about it. I really don't have time for your shit.

When you go to war with those on your own side, sapient, you are perhaps reinforcing russell’s point.

Trump has been exposed to Covid-19 by his Navy pants presser.

He must quarantine for 14 days.

Will he pull a Rand Paul ( who should have been attacked physically for his life-threatening ideological allegiance to the virus' freedom of movement and expression) and expose the entire White House staff and his corrupt family to the disease?

Will he permit the pandemic to sweep through the elite right wing republican population?

The downside for the country and the world is that they don't contract the virus. The further downside is that they live through its ravages to emerge supervirally republican from the other side to continue their ruination of the country.

Will the Supreme Court be asked to confer personhood on the virus? Will deadly viruses be accorded all of the rights and privileges under the Constitution now reserved for corporations. Will deadly viruses, because they prey on and kill the poor and sick and the vulnerable among us be permitted to argue, with representation from unqualified Federalist society terrorists, that vaccination against viruses, even testing their human hosting for their presence, violates the originalist intentions of the Founders vis a vis viruses, the latter of which were permitted to run free throughout the human population when freedom really meant something for those who were considered the full five fifths of a citizen and a human being?

The law is an ass, as the assholes have now made it so across the board.

The lives of fetuses and viruses and corporations are now more important in the political, moral, and ethical spheres than the lives of any human citizen who is not conservative and republican.

In reality, however, fetuses take a very distant third place to viruses and corporations in the vermin conservative movement legal hierarchy, and they drop even below environmental pollutants for protection, once they have been born, roughly a nanosecond afterwards.

And all three are nearly, but still not quite, as important as massive tax cuts.

I'm back, and possibly in a slightly less apocalyptic mood. I too may have misinterpreted russell when I said:

I guess in a way russell has been saying as much for a while. America is probably irrevocably broken.

In which case, apologies. These are very hard times. Let's try not to turn on each other.

fuck that. en garde!

William Barr:

“Well, history is written by the winners. So it largely depends on who’s writing the history.”

I'm writing history yet to be, and my writing sees Barr hanging by his dead neck from a poorly tied noose .... like Obama left no bullets for the military and no PPE for republican elites, trump will leave little sturdy rope in federal warehouses for us to dispose of the refuse, and they stole all of the meat hooks as well ... in a public place, while citizens fling rotting vegetables at his corpse and jump up and down on his shattered glasses.

I'll call that winning, as will the future better America, free of sadistic, corrupt republican rule.

as above, so below.

The back story here is that an internal GOP memo advising GOP candidates to avoid defending Trump’s handling of the pandemic — and pivot to blaming China instead — recently leaked, causing an intraparty explosion.

The Mad King cannot tolerate such criticism. So a top Trump aide informed a senior adviser with the National Republican Senatorial Committee that any GOP Senate candidate who follows such heretical advice — and declines to defend Trump’s handling of the pandemic — cannot count on the Trump campaign’s backing, and risks losing GOP voter support.

Indeed, the Senate GOP campaign arm frantically rushed out a clarification: “There is no daylight between the NRSC and President Trump.”

FWIW

in the 2016 election, 136.7 million votes were cast. Clinton got 65,844,610. Trump got 62,979,636.

To this day, Trump has greater than 90% support among registered (R)'s. At least the ones that answer the question.

I'd love to think that Americans overwhelmingly support values that I think are important. There is no evidence of that. And no, "we all want the same things, we just see different ways of achieving them" doesn't cut it. The ways of achieving the ends are an expression of the values themselves.

So if I want to be engaged in any political way with the society I live in, I'm obliged to account for that, and work with that.

I could, of course, try to persuade all of the people that do not share my values, to change their minds. That's not gonna happen.

We could try to find enough middle ground to sort of muddle through. But that also doesn't seem to be on offer. As far as I can tell, everybody's dug in. Including People Like Me, to be honest. Because we all think we're right, and right about fairly important things.

And so, the nation has become dysfunctional.

Personally, I'm tired of talking with people about things like is torture OK, and should we be separating immigrant kids from their parents, and are inheritance taxes really thievery, and is it a violation of people's sacred inalienable rights to ask them to not meet in large groups during an epidemic.

I feel like I'm trying to have a conversation with utter moral idiots. I feel like people I know, and have known and respected, for decades in some cases, have been replaced by an army of replicant orcs.

I hope that captures the flavor of it.

So I'm just looking for simple, pragmatic, tactical ways to address all of this. Because what we have now is FUBAR, it just is. And a (D) POTUS, or even (D) majorities in both houses of Congress and a (D) POTUS, is not gonna change any of that at a fundamental level.

Because it's what people - tens of millions of people - think and believe. That's the problem.

I have no solution.

As an aside, it's unclear to me what exactly it is you expect from me here. I'm just here to talk. Nothing any of us says here is going to transform the world in one way or another.

That can happen, it's just not gonna happen in an ObWi thread.

So maybe assume that we're all doing our best in our daily lives to advance the things we value, and don't place too many expectations on discussions in a blog post.

I feel like I'm trying to have a conversation with utter moral idiots. I feel like people I know, and have known and respected, for decades in some cases, have been replaced by an army of replicant orcs.

I hope that captures the flavor of it.

...

Nothing any of us says here is going to transform the world in one way or another.

That can happen, it's just not gonna happen in an ObWi thread.

Quoting the whole comment would be silly, saying "wrs" would be repetitive, so I'm going for my favorite snippets of eloquent sanity. Nice to wake up to something like this in the midst of all the doom and frustration of the headlines.

Very true and sane, Janie and russell, and an excellent corrective. But on the other hand:

fuck that. en garde!

at least made me laugh.

As an aside, it's unclear to me what exactly it is you expect from me here. I'm just here to talk. Nothing any of us says here is going to transform the world in one way or another.

My expectation is just that you'll be here. I value the conversation, your thoughtfulness and perspective immensely, but I don't think that we need to declare defeat. Sorry to have mischaracterized your suggestions for reorganizing the states. I believe that disunity is destructive to too many people.

These are very hard times. Let's try not to turn on each other.

Yes. I'm sorry.

in the 2016 election, 136.7 million votes were cast. Clinton got 65,844,610. Trump got 62,979,636.

About 43% of eligible voters didn't vote. Many eligible voters were disenfranchised. Many people are ineligible because they've been disenfranchised. Many people refused to vote for Clinton for reasons that were discussed here, seemingly having little to do with support for Trump's values.

An unprecedented effort was made to spread disinformation during 2016. It worked. It's true that no matter what happens in the coming election, there will still be "an army of replicant orcs". But they have always been with us, and nothing we do will completely get rid of them. We just have to figure out how to remove their power. Giving up on the states where they currently hold sway doesn't seem the way to do that. We're not going to persuade them, but we can keep working to outnumber them by empowering the disenfranchised. It's not going to happen overnight, and it won't happen without a lot of ugliness along the way. I still have hope that it will happen.

lj is right - I need a break, and will try to be out of here for awhile.

Thanks.

I'd add:

...and don't place too many expectations on discussions in a blog post.

which I know is just an extension of it's just not gonna happen in an ObWi thread, but it resonates with me. This is the online equivalent of people sitting around talking at a party or something. We aren't remaking the world.

"There is no daylight between the NRSC and President Trump.”

I'm gratified to learn that the hacking away at the administrative state, as Bannon mandates, is being followed to the T by the entire diabolical Republican edifice.

Streamlining the process so that those who must be liquidated, every one of them, sign their OWN death warrants, without jumping through the arduous, but normative, duplicative and bureaucratic, deep state paperwork and processes will hasten their horrific ends.

It's at once so Soviet and Republican of them.

"replaced by an army of replicant orcs"

I suspect it's too late.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AocjvWQVi0A

Sorry, but rule of law is now a joke.

If one reads TPM as the truth, then yes. I'm not going to assume you haven't read the motion and the recently released evidence (and the evidence released in the past). And I have not read it all. But what I have read leads me to the opposite conclusion and the opposite of what Comey and Nadler and Schiff are spouting now. The rule of law was bent to take down a political rival, plain and simple. Do the ends of taking down a duly-elected president justify the means simply because that president is Trump? YMMV.

@russell, I can't disagree with anything you said. About this:

As far as I can tell, everybody's dug in. Including People Like Me, to be honest. Because we all think we're right, and right about fairly important things.

I would add that everyone's dug in because they think they can win, in the sense of convincing (or to be discouraging, read as forcing their opinions on) the other side(s). Tennessee thinks they can force their beliefs about guns on New York. New York thinks they can force their beliefs about LGBT people on Tennessee. As a point of clarification, when I say "beliefs" and name a state, I mean the majority positions held in the state legislatures.

Where things get dicey is when state legislatures (and Congressional delegations) decide that they can't win, but they can avoid losing. I often think that the US Supreme Court is headed in that direction. Not, for example, to enforce racial discrimination in voting on a national basis, but rather to allow individual states to do so.

GftNC: These are very hard times. Let's try not to turn on each other.

cleek: fuck that. en garde!

Well as long as you're playing by civilized (elitist) rules when we, OK. Just so we don't start rolling in the mud.

To this day, Trump has greater than 90% support among registered (R)'s.

A depressingly, and appallingly, large fraction of Republicans actually agree with Trump. Or, worse**, just worship his every word.

But I suspect, or maybe that's desperately hope, that a larger percentage is merely blindly partisan. Which is to say, if the next Republican leader is wildly different, they'll then support those positions instead. That is, certainly, worrisome as well. But on balance, gives more hope for the country that if they actually believed in his bullsh*t positions on their own "merits".

** Albeit probably necessary, considering how often Trump disagrees with Trump from one day (or hour) to the next.

The rule of law was bent to take down a political rival, plain and simple.

yes, and Flynn got caught. Trump too.

not our problem if you're ok with that.

Flynn plead guilty.

I once did too, to a DUI, although my attorney claimed he could get me off.

I was guilty. And he could have gotten me off, I expect.

When I hear the words "plain and simple", I hear bullshit being "spouted".

If you read the motion "as truth" ....

So you believe what government sez is true. Is this the deep government or the shallow government you believe?

Next week, you'll be back on the theme that government lies about everything and can't be trusted to tell the truth, as an absolute.

If you think anything is plain and simple, you are simple.

But, bc, you believe you are right.

I believe I am right.

I see no middle ground except war.

Reality bites (back).

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/08/vice-president-mike-pence-staffer-tests-positive-for-coronavirus.html

The confirmation comes a day after news broke that President Donald Trump’s personal valet had also tested positive.

what I have read leads me to the opposite conclusion and the opposite of what Comey and Nadler and Schiff are spouting now. The rule of law was bent to take down a political rival, plain and simple.

bc, ask yourself this: If Flynn did nothing wrong, why did he lie about it?

IANAL, but even I know that lying under oath is illegal. Definitely not something one should do . . . unless you know, not just suspect but know, that what you did (and would be lying to claim you didn't do) was a bigger crime.**

** And if there's any question in your mind on that, that's why you have high-priced lawyers: to be sure that is the case.

The rule of law was bent to take down a political rival

Still laughing as I question whose rival Flynn was. (I know this is not what bc meant. But still, his/her comment would have to imply that the only reason for going after Flynn was to get Trump. Which is an interesting take on the facts of what Flynn said and did, and pleaded guilty to.) And Mueller and Comey, those lifelong Republicans (until Trump), which political rival were they trying to take down? You really couldn't make it up. Still, it's better to laugh than cry.

yes, and Flynn got caught. Trump too.

not our problem if you're ok with that.

Alas, alas, alas, it is our problem. bc is one of those people I was talking about who is just fine with the degradation of American institutions.

"If Flynn did nothing wrong, why did he lie about it?"

There is no lodestar truth, nor are there facts, nor are there lies, nor are there untruths, falsehoods, and bullshit in Trump's world, of which Flynn is a feature.

It's a fake reality they have made up. All of it useful from one moment to the next, whatever crap at hand that works to own their enemies.

It makes fools of all of us, of all law, of all scientific endeavor, of all rational thinking, of all whistle blowing, of all appearances to the contrary, despite Reason Magazine's thinking dunce cap.

When trump and his crowd look at the stars they don't see the useful made up shit we see, which normal people know is provisional and subject to variance according to our relative location in the universe and despite the fact that we rely on the north star for navigation, the big dippers, little dippers, Beranice's hair, charioteers, etc ... they see their absolute images reflected back at them and that is their only "truth".

Their interests.

Not ours.

Certainly no objective truth.

Maybe they see a guy drinking bleach in the heavens.

God drinks bleach, doesn't he?

IANAL, but even I know that lying under oath is illegal.

I think Flynn was guilty of lying to the FBI, not for lying under oath.

"It's right to be deeply critical of federal statutes criminalizing lying to federal agents. It's right to be deeply critical of the archaic Logan Act being brought up against Flynn to try to punish political speech. But there's no sign that this is anything but a special deal for Flynn, and the Justice Department is bending over backward to justify it. Calls for changes to federal laws? None to be seen here. The FBI will continue to attempt to trap others in lies and prosecute them."
Justice Department Moves To Dismiss Charges Against Michael Flynn: Feds now say the national security advisor's lie wasn’t “material” and they cannot prove it.

The rule of law was bent to take down a political rival

I bet the utterly evil Clintons got a good laugh reading that.

Geez, Pence breathed on those doctors at the Mayo Clinic.

Trump fucking breathed on a masked American AND on the fucking masks the guy was manufacturing right there in front of him.

May that guy maybe borrow just one of the Covid-19 tests Trump is protected with daily to use for himself so he knows whether or not to quarantine himself to protect his loved ones?

Please, assholes? Pretty please, cocksuckers?

Or do I need a fucking gun to get the test for the guy?

Are we tracking the pregnant woman who bought that mask Trump contaminated and is this moment putting it on her face, not that Pence and Trump ever gave a second's thought about a fetus besides as a weapon to hit liberals over the head with.

Yeah, but Flynn was framed.

It's all very, very, beautifully, winningly plain and simple.

I think Flynn was guilty of lying to the FBI, not for lying under oath.

Ah, so a felony violation Section 1001 of Title 18 of the United States Code (or 18 U.S.C. § 1001), rather than Perjury (18 U.S. Code § 1621).

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/pompeo-never-mind-maybe-covid-didnt-come-from-chinese-lab-after-all

See, from day to day, from minute to minute, whatever bullshit they think works in bringing us closer to the republican rapture.

I'm not denying it's a brilliant strategy.

It's working and will work until they are dead.

Flood the zone with shit.

See bc's post above for the latest.

bc, are you deep state?


Or, do you just represent the lollipop kids, the lollipop kids, the lollipop kids.

The only oath republicans take to is to fuck the liberals and the blacks and the immigrants and the gays.

I think Flynn was guilty of lying to the FBI, not for lying under oath.

General officers are also required to inform DoD if they get paid by foreign governments, businesses, or individuals for a few years after retirement. Flynn was paid, and didn't report it. IIRC, the whole investigation was started after someone notified DoD Flynn was probably in violation of that reg. In theory, that should have cost him something in terms of retired rank and pension. DoD blew that off once he plead guilty to something worse. I wonder if the Army is going to come after him now?

The rule of law was bent to take down a political rival, plain and simple.

This strikes me as utter nuttery. However, I don't think bc is an utter nut. I do not count him among the people who have been turned in a replicant orc.

So I'm kind of at a loss.

Here's how it looks to me.

Flynn was working for Turkey, while he was participating in Trump's campaign. As part of that, he had planned to grab someone living in the US and render that person to the Turkish government. For a cool million.

Right after Obama put sanctions in place against the Russians, Flynn was on the phone, repeatedly, with Kislyak. First he said they weren't talking about sanctions, then it was well maybe the topic came up. And when asked about it by the FBI, he lied.

So, WTF.

If anyone can show me the way to connect the dots from "the rule of law was bent to take down a political rival" to "Flynn called the Russian ambassador immediately after sanctions were imposed, lied about it to the FBI, and oh yeah he and his kid were running a snatch-n-grab for Turkey on the side", have at it.

Other than that, I have to conclude we are living in separate universes of fact.

I have no ill will toward bc or really much of anyone with extremely few exceptions. But I hardly know how to pursue conversations like this.

bc believes deeply in the rule of law.

To bad for all of us that's just Cleek's Law.

But I hardly know how to pursue conversations like this.

If you can call it a "conversation."

After your summary of the Flynn caper(s), cue some creative goalpost-moving, or some imaginative whataboutery, or some strawmanning, or some begging the question, or some of anything other than actually addressing the facts you've pointed out.

The whataboutery is probably the most wide-ranging option, but it isn't so much bc's kind of gambit as a certain Texas lawyer's, in conversation with whom, in order for a word about Flynn's transgressions to be allowed, you would first have to abase yourself and atone for any and all alleged transgressions of any of the "left"-leaning figments of said TX atty's imagination from the entire history of the universe.

[Ooops, it's Friday, maybe I should be more careful about whose name I invoke. References adjusted accordingly.]

have i told you all how much i love the Chinese government lately?

And Genghis Khan, don't forget about him!

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