Spinning

by wj

It's well after midnight in Iowa (and getting late here on the West Coast) and the results, even preliminary results, still aren't in from the Iowa caucuses**. In fact, they're saying it may be "late Tuesday" before we know anything. Not only after the Tuesday morning papers have got to press, but probably too late for the afternoon papers as well. The only thing we seem to know for sure is that the app for reporting results had issues.

But we've had victory speeches from most of the candidates -- which got played on the networks because, simply put, there was no real news to play. Once the results do come out, it seems likely that all the campaigns will be spinning the results like mad. From what I can see at the moment, the Biden campaign is acting like they think they under-performed. Not that this will stop them spinning, even if (or especially if) they did. And even those who did well are likely to be over-hyping their success in the hopes of getting some kind of "bounce" going forward.

So, what to make of the results, once they appear? In short, Open Thread

** That's the Democratic caucuses. To nobody's surprise, Trump won the Republican caucuses. With maybe 3% of Republicans having the courage to vote for someone else in public.

Comments

[grumbles]

A soviet turnout for a sociopathic con man. Incompetence and nearly literally a circle jerk from the opposition.

This is starting to look like a good year to develop a drinking problem.

[Nigel]

Unbelievable clusterfnck.

Why ???

[Pro Bono]

Does it matter if these results are a day late?

Meanwhile, bookies' favourites to win the presidential election are Trump (who's odds on), Sanders, Biden, and Bloomberg.

Ages 73, 78, 77, 77.

Political platforms aside, this is madness.

[John D Thullen]

Paper ballots. Fuck technology.

It's too late anyway.

"A middle-class liberal party strong enough to block the Nazis did not exist – the People's Party and the Democrats suffered severe losses to the Nazis at the polls. The Social Democrats were essentially a conservative trade union party, with ineffectual leadership. The Catholic Centre Party maintained its voting block, but was preoccupied with defending its own particular interests and, wrote Bullock: "through 1932-3 ... was so far from recognizing the danger of a Nazi dictatorship that it continued to negotiate with the Nazis". The Communists meanwhile were engaging in violent clashes with Nazis on the streets, but Moscow had directed the Communist Party to prioritise destruction of the Social Democrats, seeing more danger in them as a rival for the loyalty of the working class. Nevertheless, wrote Bullock, the heaviest responsibility lay with the German right wing, who "forsook a true conservatism" and made Hitler their partner in a coalition government."

"Both within Germany and abroad initially there were few fears that Hitler could use his position to establish his later dictatorial single-party regime. Rather, the conservatives that helped to make him chancellor were convinced that they could control Hitler and "tame" the Nazi Party while setting the relevant impulses in the government themselves; foreign ambassadors played down worries by emphasizing that Hitler was "mediocre" if not a bad copy of Mussolini; even SPD politician Kurt Schumacher trivialized Hitler as a "Dekorationsstück" ("piece of scenery/decoration") of the new government. German newspapers wrote that, without doubt, the Hitler-led government would try to fight its political enemies (the left-wing parties), but that it would be impossible to establish a dictatorship in Germany because there was "a barrier, over which violence cannot proceed" and because of the German nation being proud of "the freedom of speech and thought".

"With Germans who opposed Nazism failing to unite against it, Hitler soon moved to consolidate absolute power."

Hitler tweeted:

"At the risk of appearing to talk nonsense I tell you that the National Socialist movement will go on for 1,000 years! ... Don't forget how people laughed at me 15 years ago when I declared that one day I would govern Germany. They laugh now, just as foolishly, when I declare that I shall remain in power!"

Trump's, like Hitler, a connoissuer of the last laugh, tweets this morning will leave out the qualification of "at the risk of appearing to be talking nonsense,".

Hitler, in a way, had a just a bit more self-reflectiveness than the current monster.

No doubt there were technological glitches along the way to go in 1932-33 to go with the general malfeasance among those who could have stopped the Will of Hitler.

Dreher and the right wing crew at The American Conservative refer to America and the West now as Weimar. They see little choice but to vote for Hitler as the gaseous antidote to Weimar America, which they hate.

Buchanan, the elite elite-hater, is getting his fascist jones on. He's lived for this time.

They know exactly what they are doing. They know precisely the meaning of their words.

Janie is correct. The Nazis were not vermin. They were the all too human variety of murderers. Vermin lack agency. They are innocent.

The Nazi Party had agency and were permitted to Will the murder of millions.

Vermin minded their own business.

I'll never insult vermin again by comparing them to Nazis or Republicans.

Anne Frank, a beautiful human soul, was murdered by human beings, not by vermin. In fact, the vermin, morally neutral mice, cockroaches, and creepy-crawlies, who happened to find shelter in the walls and under the floorboards at Prinsengracht 263 in Amsterdam, had this one and only thing in common with their human tenants:

Both were hiding from their doom at the hands of the Nazis and Hitler.

I now go dark, and I don't mean the app for darkness.

I'm going to go darker than the descending darkness.

Also, what Pro Bono said.

And Pro Cher and Pro The Edge.

[John D Thullen]

Except for this:

"Does it matter if these results are a day late?":

Yes, it does.

I can write the White House and RNC ad copy.

"Do you want these people to write the app for Medicare-For-All?"

[russell]

Paper ballots. Fuck technology

This.

Caucuses are some weird mash-up of PTA meeting and Yankee Swap. And now they have an app, because god forbid we do anything without an app.

Iowa has to go first, because reasons. Then New Hampshire, also because reasons, and they are really first if you ask them, because that's a primary not a caucus.

We love this quaint small town Norman Rockwell kitsch.

We have a 2 year horse race, complete with bookies, for a 4 year position. We spend over a billion dollars on it. The final result is determined by a process where votes are basically rounded up at the state level, with a little two-vote bump for each state so WY and RI don't feel left out.

Dysfunction is baked in.

As far as outcomes, the difference between any two (D) candidates pales in comparison to any one of them and Trump.

Ham sandwich.

[russell]

I'm going to go darker than the descending darkness.

"Oh, and one more thing. You aren't going to like what comes next after America.”

Leonard Cohen

I don't see it as "what comes next after America", I see it as "what America looks like after it turns rancid".

Same place, same people. Just gone bad.

[John D Thullen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0nmHymgM7Y

[wj]

As far as outcomes, the difference between any two (D) candidates pales in comparison to any one of them and Trump.

Let's hope this time we don't have sore losers staying home and letting Trump win again.

[cleek]

in 2012, it took almost three weeks for the Iowa GOP to announce the winner of the caucus.

[Nigel]

Do you want these people to write the app for Medicare-For-All

Indeed... but the Iowa Democratic party is not running for president.

[hairshirthedonist]

And now they have an app, because god forbid we do anything without an app.

FiveThirtyEight agrees with the position I inferred from your appropriately sarcastic sentence above.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/iowa-democrats-should-have-known-better-than-to-use-an-app/

[John D Thullen]

"Indeed... but the Iowa Democratic party is not running for president."

They are now.

[wj]

Do you want these people to write the app for Medicare-For-All

Look for this to be embroidered with references to the messy rollout of Obamacare. Perhaps you folks who have actual IT experience should be offering your services to the candidate of your choice. Not for designing actual applications. But for designing the testing processes.

(Lucky me. I don't face that "opportunity", since the chances of a Republican sponsored technology creation look nil. Certainly not one that gets far enough along to test.)

[wonkie]

When I read that they had gone with an app, I thought that serves you right. OF COURSE and app will fuck everything up!

[wonkie]

I made the mistake of reading some Bernie supporter posts on Facebook. All oout conspiracy theories. Did you know that the app was made by a secret network of HRC supporters to rig the caucus against Bernie? god those people are as stupid and Trumper. And Bernie is the likely winner but that won'tslow them down a bit in their paranoia.

[wj]

What appears to happen with true believers is that they have trouble (actually, totally cannot manage) wrapping their heads around the fact that most people don't believe the same as they do. The only way to fit that to the reality that things are not running in accord with their beliefs is to assume that someone is rigging the world. Since one person obviously isn't enough to be doing so (well, maybe George Soros, for some), it must be a conspiracy of some kind. And, since there isn't much (any?) real evidence, it must be a secret conspiracy.

Of course, to those who are not in their particular belief bubble, their conspiracies look totally daft. Because, necessarily, they are.

Not to say that there are not attempts to conspire to rig things. Just that mostly they, too, fail. Occasionally, someone will manage to pull off a secret conspiracy -- at least temporarily. But it is very much the exception.

[CharlesWT]

Conspiracy theories are as American as apple pie.

[wj]

But are they uniquely American? (I tend to be wary of claims of American exceptionalism without evidence from elsewhere.)

[John D Thullen]

Conspiracy theories are as American as ... app pie.

[wonkie]

Yes wj, that's exactly the problem. And they cannot grasp the concept that any one else might have a legitimate point of view, so they are routinely rude. and if anyone shoots back at them they ar immediately martyred victims. I caucused for Bernie last time around ang got really tired of the other Berners. But I never was a true believe. I just thought it wa not smart to choose the candidate with the fifty percent disapproval rating.

[John D Thullen]

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3538280-fda-oks-emergency-use-of-coronavirus-test

The most terrifying words in the English language:

"Government develops emergency coronavirus test to help you."

Conservative asshole: "No thanks, the coronavirus goes good with my measles."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-had-goddamn-fucking-meltdown-over-staff-refusing-to-release-his-two-page-pro-birther-screed?via=newsletter&source=CSAMedition

Think if Barack Obama was a violent man, like John Brown, how much better off we would be today.

I wonder how many times the word "nigger" has been uttered in the White House since January 2017, when the racists started using the slipcovers as toilet paper?

"Shh, keep it down, here comes Ben Carson."

[Nigel]

No shit, Suzy...
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/481486-collins-trump-has-learned-a-pretty-big-lesson-from-impeachment

He’s learned his enablers in the Senate, you included, will have his back whatever the fnck he does.

[wj]

they cannot grasp the concept that any one else might have a legitimate point of view

Actually, wonkie, I don't think that's quite it. I think they can't grasp that anyone could honestly hold beliefs that are different from their own. Because their own are so obviously (to them) true and correct. It's not that they don't think other views are legitimate, so much. It's that they can't conceive of someone seeing the world differently.

In short, it's ethnocentricism (which I suspect you've heard of) taken to an extreme. Generally without the ethnic part -- except as a secondary feature.

[bc]

Nate Silver seems to think a day late will have an impact in favor of Biden and against Sanders. That will make the conspiracy theories go away.

[wj]

Results!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/iowa-caucuses-2020-live-updates/2020/02/04/23561bd6-4707-11ea-bc78-8a18f7afcee7_story.html

The headline: "With 62 percent of votes counted, Sanders held a lead in overall votes [26% of the votes] while Buttigieg [with 25% of the votes] led among a measure of state delegates." And Biden down around 13%.

Now that's going to upend a lot of calculations about the race. If it holds up, of course. Maybe Buttigieg, rather than Biden, is going to end up with the "electability" voters.

[CharlesWT]

"Jesse Walker’s The United States of Paranoia presents a comprehensive history of conspiracy theories in American culture and politics, from the colonial era to the War on Terror.

The fear of intrigue and subversion doesn’t exist only on the fringes of society but has always been part of our national identity. When such tales take hold, Walker argues, they reflect the anxieties and experiences of the people who believe them, even if they say nothing true about the objects of the theories themselves."
The United States of Paranoia: A Conspiracy Theory

[Nigel]

Maybe Buttigieg, rather than Biden, is going to end up with the "electability" voters.
Biden got around 13% of the popular vote.
I think that fatally wounds his inevitability argument.

It wouldn’t be so bad had he not been favourite to win Iowa for a long while - and when even the BBC are commenting on his wooden stump performances, there’s a real problem.
He missed (or was talked out of) his chance four years ago.

[CharlesWT]

Ages 73, 78, 77, 77.

Political platforms aside, this is madness.

Are the candidates getting donations from Kimberly-Clark(Depend®)?...

[wj]

Maybe that's why the guy who's 38 is doing so well...?

[wonkie]

about electability voters. electable means more likely to win the nation election not the primary. the national has a wider draw. biden may be the most electable nationally even if not in the [rimaries

I actally think trump is gpomg to win

[cleek]

Maybe that's why the guy who's 38 is doing so well...?

it's really pretty amazing how much the online left hates Pete. like, they really despise him.

[wj]

Closet homophobia?
/snark

[bobbyp]

Closet homophobia?
/snark

I shall ask just once, and very politely, that you take that back, sir. OK?

Thanks.

[wj]

bobbyp, I get that you are massively offended. But not entirely clear why. It was a snarky comment, nothing more. Not intended to be any more offensive than any other snark.

[sapient]

it's really pretty amazing how much the online left hates Pete. like, they really despise him.

I think people might be able to circle the wagons around him though in the end. He's not my favorite candidate, and I probably won't be voting for him in my March primary, but I could love a young, brilliant Democrat, who has served in the military (yes, that requires a bit of wherewithal, especially for someone who has so many other talents up his sleeve), who has been an out gay mayor in a red state.

Why not? Is he going to support land mines? Is he going to be building a wall? Is he going to be pardoning war criminals? On the positive side, is he going to be supporting human rights? Universal health care to the extent possible? Any attempt at all to be humane and democratic?

I'm for him if he gets nominated.

[russell]

I'm for him if he gets nominated.

Likewise.

[bobbyp]

bobbyp, I get that you are massively offended. But not entirely clear why.

Well, as I read your "snark" you seem to be implying that the progressive left, however defined, despite its long history of supporting LBGT rights well ahead of "the consensus" (I'm looking at you, BHObama) is actually homophobic (closet or otherwise).

But I may have misread here...so please do flesh this out.

With all due respect.

[bobbyp]

I'm for him if he gets nominated.

OK. I'm in. I'd even hold my diapers and vote for Bloomberg or Styer if they buy the nomination. This is a strategic calculation that is fairly obvious.

I only ask for the same commitment from you if Sanders is the nominee, OK? So, let's hear it. Now.

Thanks.

[wj]

But I may have misread here...so please do flesh this out.

My sense (which may be wrong, of course) is that any time someone outside the progressive left makes a negative comment about someone who happens to be gay, the "progressive left" immediately diagnoses homophobia as the one and only reason. Even if the person making the comment has personally been supportive of gay rights.

Feels different when the same shoe's on the other foot, doesn't it? (And the "/snark" attempts to make clear that I don't think it's any more accurate in this case.)

Does that help?

[wj]

I only ask for the same commitment from you if Sanders is the nominee, OK? So, let's hear it.

For my part, any of the 20 or so folks who made any pretense of running (yes, even Gabbard, if a brokered convention went that way) is preferable to Trump. Heck, even Pence would be better than Trump, and that's going really low -- not that he's an option, of course.

[Nigel]

Good for Pelosi.
The spectacle of this president’s supporters and enablers going on about decorum is not edifying.

[bobbyp]

My sense (which may be wrong, of course) is that any time someone outside the progressive left makes a negative comment about someone who happens to be gay, the "progressive left" immediately diagnoses homophobia as the one and only reason."

Well, as a commie pinko SDS'er Wobbly going on 50 years I can only assert, yes, that is wrong. This is broad brushing, so I would request you provide, you know, actual examples of this egregious behavior. Then we can judge instances as they arise.

Not to say that broad brushing is never the right thing to do, but I ask only for fair and reasonable balance. So when you broad brush all Republicans as socialist hating fascist thugs, well, I'll let this go.

(aside: I shall give you some help here: My biggest problem with radical pinko commies is not communism per se, but self identified communists. If you had ever met a real dyed in the wool Trotskyite you would know what I am saying, but I'm sure you know "real" Republicans, so there you go.)

I opine this is a fair and reasonable balance, and exemplifies "both siderism" at its finest, aka, "youfirstism".

Thanks.

[Hartmut]

Well, at least with Pence we could expect the catastrophic results to be intentional (not collateral). Unlike Jabbabonk he's a true believer and seems to possess basic competence in governing (the technical aspects).

[bobbyp]

For my part....

Would you go into the voting both and pull the lever for any of them if that was your choice? Trump or "Dem X"?

That is where the rubber meets the road.

[bobbyp]

Good for Pelosi.

She should have spit in his general direction and stalked off. Her restraint was admirable.

Trump is a fucking pig.

[wj]

If you had ever met a real dyed in the wool Trotskyite you would know what I am saying

As it happens, I have known a real dyed-in-the-wool Trotskyite. More than one, actually. I was at Berkeley in the late 1960s, so I had that rare opportunity. Not that it was a connection that I cultivated.

As for your proposed "balance", I would note that I didn't accuse (even in jest) all members of the progressive left. And I likewise cannot say all Republicans are "socialist hating fascist thugs" -- though certainly a depressingly large number are. (Not that most of those have a clue what a socialist really believes.)

[wj]

Would you go into the voting both and pull the lever for any of them if that was your choice? Trump or "Dem X"?

In a heartbeat.

Granted, being in California it won't impact the results in November. But still, for anyone who honestly cares about this country it's the right thing to do.

[sapient]

I only ask for the same commitment from you if Sanders is the nominee, OK? So, let's hear it. Now.

Commitment provided. I'm in for Sanders if he wins the nomination. For the most part, I don't disagree with Sanders's rhetoric. I question his policy chops, am suspicious of his supporters, think that he was given a pass where he didn't deserve it, and believe that he hasn't helped Democrats win, which means that he has helped them lose. But since I don't demand perfection, I'll vote for him if he's nominated.

[russell]

I only ask for the same commitment from you if Sanders is the nominee, OK?

I'm in.

I for one welcome our Dem X overlord.

[russell]

this seems about right.

I'm sure it's a sign of me getting old, but it seems like nobody has any freaking basic common sense anymore.

[CaseyL]

"I'm sure it's a sign of me getting old, but it seems like nobody has any freaking basic common sense anymore. "

The phenomenon strikes me as a sign of fin de siecle: when an economy manufactures nothing of actual value, and the people who make out like bandits are the ones who degrade value for their own (enormous) profit.

The US has spent a good few decades eating its seed corn: cannibalizing companies, destroying economic mobility and financial security for everyone but the top 10%, letting infrastructure rot, monetizing things which should not be monetized.

Now we're out of seed corn.

[sapient]

bobbyp: This is why people resent Bernie. Also see the supportive comments to this tweet.

No doubt all of the candidates have a certain number of annoying supporters, but the intensity of the stupid among certain facets of Bernie's fan base reflects on the candidate himself. Maybe it shouldn't.

This doesn't change the fact that I'll support him if he's nominated, but it certainly doesn't encourage me to support him in advance of that.

[cleek]

what sapient said.

if he's fine with the poisonous idiocy of so many of his most-vocal supporters (including those in his direct employ) he'll be a terrible candidate and a worse President.

if he's so clueless that he doesn't see it he'll be a terrible candidate and a worse President.

i'll vote for him if i have to, but it will require me to ignore the shrieking awfulness of the people who put him in that spot.

[bobbyp]

sapient,

that cuts both ways. not sure why you obsess about it so.

Now we're out of seed corn.

you may well be correct, CaseyL. All empires fall eventually.

As it happens, I have known a real dyed-in-the-wool Trotskyite.

LOL...i forgot about your experiences at berkeley. everybody should have at least one encounter with the phenomenon of the ideologically obsessed left wing hair splitter. I think it's something marxists picked up from the protestants.

[sapient]

not sure why you obsess about it so.

Well, I found the tweet through Hilzoy's twitter feed. Perhaps she can explain it better. I would suggest following.

[hairshirthedonist]

Medull of Freedumb. That's all I got today.

[cleek]

“Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?”

Medull of Freedumb

fuck. the. G.O.P..

[cleek]

“You just gotta be who you are, and I think it’s time to get rid of this whole National Basketball Association. Call it the TBA, the Thug Basketball Association, and stop calling them teams. Call ’em gangs.”

Medull of Freedumb

fuck. the. G.O.P..

[cleek]

“Citizen service is a repudiation of the principles upon which our country was based. We are all here for ourselves.”

Medull of Freedumb

fuck. the. G.O.P..

[cleek]

“When a gay person turns his back on you, it is anything but an insult; it’s an invitation.”

Medull of Freedumb

fuck. the. G.O.P..

[cleek]

am i saying 'fuck' too much?

fuck you. i'm an entertainer. i can say what i want without consequences.

[Donald]

I didn't like the Menaker thread because it is frivolous. Facts are more interesting than the usual blather about who you will vote for. I will vote for the lesser evil (which is the Democrat no matter who it is), but if someone wants to argue that Democrats are so terrible they don't deserve a vote, then at least make the argument as to why. But better yet, stop talking about yourself and your vote and talk about issues, corruption, etc...

So here are the sorts of leftist twitter threads and comments I do find interesting. First, why Tom Perez sucks.

More later.

https://twitter.com/kgosztola/status/1221167638254161920

[wj]

Medull of Freedumb

I was taken with Chait's comment: "Trump himself has a record of racism so long and flagrant . . . that he makes Limbaugh look like Martin Luther King Jr."

The wonder to me is that it took Trump so long to get around to this.

[John D Thullen]

"Sandra Fluke is a slut and a prostitute."

Medull of Freedumb

fuck. the. G.O.P.

Mr Guttenberg apologized to the murderers of his daughter in the midst of their orgasms over guns, while the Medal of Freedom was awarded to a steaming pile of dog shit.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fred-guttenberg-father-parkland-shooting-victim-escorted-gallery/story?id=68765919

fuck. the. G.O.P.

This guy no longer protects us:

https://juanitajean.com/because-he-snorkeled-once/

...while cold-blooded murderers are pardoned and await their next orders from the GOP to murder again, next time right here in America.

fuck. the. G.O.P.

Republicans and conservatives are the enemies of America and the human race, while vermin continue to climb in the esteem of decent human beings.

[Hartmut]

Maybe because Limbaugh now cannot draw the spotlight away from Jabbabonk anymore.

What's the bet that that murderous, sadist digestive rear exit of a SEAL Jabbabonk prevented the military to get rid off will get his MoF before this year is over?

The next Dem POTUS should seriously consider to discontinue the medal together with a very public announcement that in his/her opinion the award practices of certain of his/her predecessors have stained and besmirched its reputation to a degree beyond redemption and turned the award into a mockery.
Awarding one to the pardoned thanksgiving turkeys to make a point may be a step too far though.

[wj]

Also taken with Jennifer Rubin's column title: What's next -- giving the Presidential Medal of Freedom to David Duke?

[John D Thullen]

The steaming pile of dog shit (the new host of killer metastasizing cancer cells) hates all forms of birth control, including condoms, while the steaming pile of dog shit's mother regrets daily that the steaming pile of dog shit's father didn't pull out on time.

Dog Shit Senior must have been a liar too.

[CharlesWT]

...have stained and besmirched its reputation to a degree beyond redemption and turned the award into a mockery.

Sort of like the Nobel Peace Price.

[russell]

Just want to say that CaseyL at 9:09 makes a great deal of sense to me.

My impression of "Bernie or die" folks is that they are people who think the whole enchilada is broken, so if it's not Bernie they're not interested. TBH, no small number of them will vote for Trump if Bernie does not get the nod, so I don't necessarily mind if they just stay home instead.

As far as Rush and the medal of freedom, it's not worth my while to get angry or upset. Trump is going to disgrace everything he touches. I accept that as a reality. It makes him happy to piss off People Like Me, and that's a game I refuse to play.

Give the man as little room in your head as you can. That's my advice, and it's worth every penny you paid for it. :)

CaseyL at 9:09, y'all.

[hairshirthedonist]

Romney is reportedly going to vote to convict/remove FWIW.

[cleek]

Romney...

my brain ... is twisting.... can't... deal.

*splat*

[Hartmut]

CharlesWT, I actually expected that answer from someone (not necessarily you) and it is imo not fully unjustified (although we may differ on the specific misjudgements and their gravity).
Imo there were cases of both 'not fully worthy of it' and 'should rather rot in jail instead'.
An interesting case is Churchill getting the Nobel for literature (his political deeds cover the whole span from praiseworthy to despicable).

[John D Thullen]

They will expunge trump's impeachment from the books:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/republicans-mull-response-to-pelosis-impeachment-is-forever-barb-expungement-of-trump-record-2020-02-05?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts

I'm feeling very Iranian at the moment.

[russell]

They will expunge trump's impeachment from the books

Since the whole process is part of the public record at this point, this seems like an exercise in futile wankery.

[cleek]

GOP 2020: an exercise in futile wankery

[Nigel]

‘Cos airbrushing history has such admirable antecedents....

Goes beyond wankery.

[Nigel]

cleek, 2:45....

I’ll say it, then.

Deep breath.

Good for Romney !

[Nigel]

This is a splendid piece:
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/02/susan-collins-murkowski-donald-trump-learned-his-lesson.html

[wj]

They will expunge trump's impeachment from the books

My distinct impression is that you only expunge records of people who have been convicted of something.** And it only clears the legal record (i.e. they are no longer officially a "convicted felon").

But there is no way to "expunge" anything from the historical record. Of course, not sure why people who deny facts day-to-day would care about a historical record anyway....

** But maybe McCarthy knows something we don't...?

[wj]

Good for Romney.

Now if only Collins et al. would decide that Trump saying that he was not chastened at all means that they should vote to convict after all. Pity they won't. It would be so nice if a majority voted to convict. Even if it wouldn't be enough to get him booted out of office, as he so richly deserves.

[hairshirthedonist]

On the first charge, votes for guilty representing both major parties and independents. Votes for not guilty from Republicans only.

[hairshirthedonist]

Romney votes not guilty on the obstruction charge.

[John D Thullen]

wank
/waNGk/
Learn to pronounce
VULGAR SLANG•BRITISH
verb
gerund or present participle: wanking
(typically used of a man) masturbate.
masturbate oneself or SOMEONE ELSE.

From Nigel's link, Murkowski wanking SOMEONE ELSE, but sadly:

"It is important not to “disenfranchise nearly 63 million Americans and remove him from the ballot”

That's one hell of a circle jerk bukkake the ladies ... Murkowski and Collins ... have going for themselves.

[Donald]

I might come back with some other tweets as promised that would be a bit controversial in these parts, but this one won’t be. It’s funny

.
https://twitter.com/MrGeorgeWallace/status/1225136558103121920

[russell]

‘Cos airbrushing history has such admirable antecedents....

They can try it on, but I don't think their airbrush is big enough to cover this much stink.

Good for Romney.

Not least because he just put himself on the sh*t list of a world-historical petty and vindictive SOB. He and probably his family are going to go through some things. And, he knows that and understands what that is probably going to look like in Trump world.

An honest to god principled stand. And god knows we don't see many of them. Make a note of it, if you have kids tell them about it so they understand what it is.

[John D Thullen]

Trump signals to his fascist loyalists that Adan Schiff must be murdered:

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/2/5/1916941/-New-White-House-statement-threatens-Rep-Schiff-Will-there-be-no-retribution

Mitt Romney needs armed bodyguards 24 hours a day.

His RNC-sucking niece keeps her distance from him in case of assassination attempts.

[byomtov]

What disturbs me most about the Iowa app mess is that apparently the contract to develop the app was awarded on some kind of crony basis.

I may be overgeneralizing, but if that's the way the Democratic Party does things then there are going to be serious problems in the campaign.

Could we get some people who know what they're doing, please.

[sapient]

What disturbs me most about the Iowa app mess is that apparently the contract to develop the app was awarded on some kind of crony basis.

Maybe you could elaborate on that? Crony basis?

I worked for a not-for-profit at one time, and we had a volunteer (crony) develop an app for us. It was a great app, and it was widely used - worked very well. The volunteer updated it once. Again, it was beloved. It fell out of use because the volunteer couldn't devote their life to updating the app, and iPhone moved on. It was all good, but then the not-for-profit couldn't turn hair into gold.

What did the crony get paid? Was the crony an enthusiastic amateur?

I may be overgeneralizing, but if that's the way the Democratic Party does things then there are going to be serious problems in the campaign.

I think the Iowa Democratic Party is different than the DNC. Maybe I'm wrong.

Our country is, unfortunately, very complicated. And in the world of generalizing, it's all about blaming Democrats.

[sapient]

Also, just to add on to my comment about the Iowa debacle, what's with caucuses, anyway?

My district in Virginia had a caucus in 2018 for the House nominee, and it was a shitshow. People who wanted to come couldn't find a place to park. Etc.

Let's make caucuses a great town meeting situation to decide municipal crap, not federal elections.

I don't know what the DNC has to do with whether Iowa has a caucus or not, but Bernie LOVES caucuses. So we ban them and he's screwed and "rigged" out.

Caucuses are a problem. Iowa is a problem.

[sapient]

Oh, and Bernie is a problem. I'lll vote for him if he wins though!

[wonkie]

My facebook feed is full of Berners who claim that the app used in iowas comes from a company with ties to hrc thus proving THAT IT WAS A PLOT BY THE DNC!!!!! and Bernie coming in a close second hasn't lessened their paranoia a bit.

[sapient]

bobbyp: What's your view on caucuses and Bernie? Please explain why it's all good.

My guess is that you will do another whataboutism ploy.

I like you a lot, because in the end you do the right thing. But maybe try doing it now?

[sapient]

My comment was posted before I saw Wonkie's. I would ask bobbyp to respond in good faith to both of us.

[wj]

apparently the contract to develop the app was awarded on some kind of crony basis.

Networking can be a great way to find potential employees, vendors, etc. That is, it can help you find people (or companies) that otherwise might not get considered. Where it becomes a problem is if a) it becomes the only way to get consideted, and b) if it influences to decision on who to actually hire/buy from.

Politics, of course, is all about networking. So it's hardly surprising that someone got hired who had previous contacts with those doing the hiring. And I'm sure politics sees the same "small world" phenomena that I see all the time in IT. So it's also hardly surprising that someone got hired who previously worked with/for anybody else in the business.

In short, going instantly to "It's a plot!" reflects paranoia, not reality. (As a side note, any halfway competent conspirator would be careful to hire someone with NO prior contacts with anybody.)

[CaseyL]

"My facebook feed is full of Berners who claim that the app used in iowas comes from a company with ties to hrc thus proving THAT IT WAS A PLOT BY THE DNC!!!!! and Bernie coming in a close second hasn't lessened their paranoia a bit. "

Whining petulant children. Truly, a Left version of Trumpettes. Actually, I'm not sure they're really leftists; it's hard to tell with personality cults. They're for whatever glorifies their idol and enraged at whatever doesn't.

[bobbyp]

bobbyp: What's your view on caucuses and Bernie? Please explain why it's all good.

Funny you should bring that up. Our state Democratic Party has used the caucus system for a good long time. This year we finally ditched it to go with a primary. Nearly all of the lefties of my acquaintance supported this move wholeheartedly, myself included.

My guess is that you will do another whataboutism ploy.

Sorry to disappoint.

As to my views on Bernie...well, he's the leftmost Dem candidate, so there's that. I also like Warren. Neither of them call for the expropriation of the expropriators, but you can't have everything.

As to how this will all work out? Anybody's guess. But I would opine this, if militant moderates like yourself really want to stop Bernie, you should be pressing hard to get people like you to rally around just one candidate to oppose him. A split field allowed Trump to walk thru to the nomination. Instead of spending your time and energy berating berniebros, it might be better spent imploring people like Senator Amy and Joey B. to drop out quick.

And if a Bernie nomination comes to pass? Well, I would agree with this.

Have a good day. Thanks.

[bobbyp]

some other thoughts on Bernie that I found interesting:

Here.

and here.

Never let your bile overcome your intellectual curiosity. As a murderous wag once said, "Let a thousand flowers bloom."

[byomtov]

In short, going instantly to "It's a plot!" reflects paranoia, not reality.

I'm not going there. Apparently the app was designed by company called Shadow, which is controlled by/connected with/something else an outfit called ACRONYM, which does a lot of work for Democrats. All well and good and reasonable.

But I do wonder whether anyone did a good job of checking out Shadow before hiring them for this. I'm not alleging some sort of plot, just a careless award of a contract to your buddy.

[cleek]

My facebook feed is full of Berners who claim ...

AFAICT, all they do, 24/7, is invent conspiracies in which they are the victims. they are poison, actively working to sicken people and keep them from voting for the only alternative we have to the GOP.