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December 12, 2019

Comments

Byomtov

What I think is that Corbyn is a decent man who somehow rose to the top of Labour, I don’t think he was smart enough for the position. I don’t follow British politics closely enough to understand how he became the leader.

I already said what I find lacking in the African- American analogy. I said where I think Labour was weak. I haven’t said what I think about many of Labour’s critics— just hinted at it. But what I think is that many of them have double standards on human rights and that anti - Palestinian racism is ubiquitous in American and apparently British culture. I said this a year or two ago here— when criticism of Israel is involved, it is impossible to have a serious discussion of real or alleged antisemitism without looking at the anti- Palestinian double standards that most Westerners bring to this subject. Getting into that would lead to a repeat of our argument some time back and I’m not in the mood. Plus I’d have to go looking for more links.


My views are probably closest to Robert Cohen, whose blog I linked above.
But from what I can tell, the main reason Labour lost was that their supporters were split on Brexit. Corbyn tried to walk a tightrope and just ended up looking like a weasel. I am not sure that anyone could have won but clearly Corbyn wasn’t the right choice. My lefty sources claim his far left positions polled well, but he obviously did not.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/writingfromtheedge/

Several of the posts are about the Labour antisemitism controversy and the posts themselves contain numerous links.

Now I’m done. Sapient was getting upset.

Weird. DOB was a typo— I started to correct it and instead I posted it.

Weird. DOB was a typo— I started to correct it and instead I posted it.

About as far off topic as I can get... I have a piece of JavaScript that runs on almost every web page I download. It fixes fonts, sizes, and colors to some extent to make everything look consistent. One of the lesser things it does is find the name and email fields for comments here at ObiWi and fills them in for me.

The American President has lost his marbles.

The American President has lost his marbles.

And yet, he still has the support of so, so many.

Interesting article in NYRB here with insights (and not particularly laudatory ones) into the role of the hard left in the politics of the Labour Party over the last four decades, and the dim prospects for social democracy going forward.

Grim. Very grim.

Who knows when his carelessness about Jews and antisemitism might make him do something quite harmful?

As opposed to the deliberate cruelty of Conservative rule? The destructive barbarism of its public policies? Its racism? Its authoritarian bent? It's rabid Islamophobia? And yes, its anti-Semitism.

Nothing to see here folks...move along now.

Surely you jest.

About the only useful lesson to take from the UK election is that if the Democrats spend the next six months knocking lumps out of each other, they will lose to Trump again.

Someone needs to pull the left of centre coalition together. I understand the reason for the passionate policy arguments, but if they lead to a Trump second term, they are essentially futile.

Corbyn is gone, so let's move on.

I think Keir Starmer might be able to do that:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/17/keir-starmer-labour-leadership-pitch-radical-government

The British public seems to be appalled by antisemitism, which is great, but many don't mind a bit of casual racism, Islamophobia and classism, otherwise we wouldn't have ended up with Johnson - and most of the media are complicit or could care less.

Corbyn is gone, so let's move on.
I think Keir Starmer might be able to do that...

We will see - FWIW, I suspect Starmer might even fall at the nomination hurdle.
In any event, it’s a much more complicated problem in the UK given FPTP and our proliferation of parties - most of which are not on the right. (I’ve been a proponent of PR for a long time, but it’s hard to see a route to it.)

The US, with essentially only two parties, has no such excuse.

Congress is burning.


Profiles in courage...
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/12/mcconnell-trump-impeachment-trial-strategy.html

bobbyp,

It was not my intention to defend the Conservatives, or to argue that they should not be subject to more criticism than they have received. Boris Johnson would not have gotten my vote, though I don't know enough to say who would have - not Corbyn, certainly.

Corbyn's missteps have been more widely covered, no doubt, which is probably why I am more familiar with them.

2008 Trump seemed to think differently about Pelosi and impeachment:

https://twitter.com/wolfblitzer/status/1207375509698596867?s=20

Weeeeerd, right?

Lithwick tells it like it is:
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/12/senate-impeachment-trial-mitch-mcconnell-john-roberts-rules-norms.html

Corbyn's missteps have been more widely covered, no doubt, which is probably why I am more familiar with them.

That's the point.

Trump was right about one thing: he gets away with murder, and so does Johnson:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/boris-johnson-s-17-most-controversial-quotes-why-he-isn-t-saying-sorry-in-election-campaign-1-5060252

If a Labour candidate had said any of these things, he would be crucified.

Another window into his mindset - greed is good.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/27/boris-johnson-thatcher-greed-good

Bernard,
No problem. Thanks.

Close to home:

https://juanitajean.com/right-wing-talker-laments-boring-impeachment-proceedings-wishes-for-a-school-shooting/

Kill and butcher and slaughter all of them.

Kill and butcher and slaughter all of them.

Kill and butcher and slaughter all of them.

You can do it now or wait for them to murder all of us.

Kill and butcher and slaughter all of them.

haha
impeached

President two-stars is having a sad.

* Lost popular vote
* Impeached

* Lost popular vote
* Impeached

That's two (2!) things he's accomplished that Obama never managed to pull off!

And with a little luck he will make history by getting more Senate votes for removal than Clinton managed. (Removal may be wildly improbable, but a handful of GOP Senators deciding to actually live up their oaths could happen.)

Living the dream....

So a serious question- what, procedurally, prevents McConnell from ignoring the impeachment? Is there any recourse to force at least a sham trial, or can he, metaphorically or literally toss the articles in the ashcan? What mechanism exists to prevent that?

You might find this interesting, Priest.

But He the Donald gets it worse than Jesus H. Christ who, according to a GOP congressbeing last night, got a fairer trial from Pontius Pilate that He the Donald got from the Democrats.
But Louis Gohmert may have spoken truth for once when he said in the same 'debate' that he fears that this is the end of the republic and that he hopes not to live to see it.
By Jove, so do we.

That's a fascinating article, bobby. I wonder of a Senator announcing that he intends to ignore his oath, which he has to give at the start of an impeachment trial, is grounds for impeaching that senator. (Looking at you, Senator Graham.)

Pointless in the current Congress, of course. But in time, it might be a means to finish cleansing the Senate.

Interesting.

On the difficulty of financing even the cheapest fossil fuel power developments in Africa:
https://www.petroleum-economist.com/articles/politics-economics/africa/2019/lng-to-power-a-hard-nut-to-crack-in-africa
...There is a clear need and appetite for gas-fired power in Africa. Although renewable energy remains a small part of current installed capacity, the price revolution means it is now the cheapest technology to add and has other benefits for governments and utilities in terms of low construction risk, a more predictable impact on foreign exchange reserves, and some location flexibility.

On the basis of the current pipeline alone, estimates based on the projects recorded by Live Data show solar capacity doubling by end-2020; wind capacity is expected to have doubled by 2021, and if current projects are followed through geothermal capacity will double during 2020 and treble by 2023...

Wisher of murderous school shootings, Charles C. Bonniwell, the republican conservative trump- supporting subhuman vermin referenced above, publishes my neighborhood rag.

I just received the latest copy in my mailbox today:

http://glendalecherrycreek.com/

Should I alert Denver schools regarding his murderous conservative fascist radio talk-show musings?

Maybe the children of Colorado are fully equipped in pig fucker republican vermin America with bullet-proof backpacks .. a trending investment opportunity in entrepreneurial, exceptional asshole America .. to protect them from Bonniwell's bouts of impeachment boredom.

He's going to become my new friend.

So is his c"nt-Friday conservative vermin female radio co-host who attempted to shush his murderous pantsless rants.

He lives nearby. His rag is published blocks away from where I live.

Trump's whacked bullshit letter to Pelosi was referred to on FOX News as the contemporary equivalent of the Gettysburg Address.

One does wish for a million John Wilkes Booths to give up acting and act.

Too bad all of them are conservative republican racist, anti-Semite, liberal-murdering rat fucking subhumans with minimal to non-existent tax burdens, else they would come in handy in preserving the Republic.


https://finance.yahoo.com/video/economist-rosenberg-warns-spread-between-195337944.html

Where did those corporate tax cuts go?

They went right up conservative asses to visit Larry Kudlow's firmly inserted head.

Lurking. The thing I return to.

procedurally, prevents McConnell from ignoring the impeachment?

it has to perform some kind of trial. but what that trial consists of is up to the Senate to decide. and the Senate rules can be changed with a simple majority, if McConnell is willing to do another 'nuclear' option maneuver.

First, Pelosi has to send the articles to the Senate. Unclear if she will, given McConnell's public statements.

Yes, she knows how to troll the Republicans right back:
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/18/trump-impeachment-trial-steny-hoyer-087319

Should do wonders for the Trumpian blood pressure.

Should I alert Denver schools regarding his murderous conservative fascist radio talk-show musings?

In some (most? all?) jurisdictions, advocating the commission of a felony is illegal. See also 18 U.S. Code § 373

Of course the downside is how close some of your writings here come to the same statutes.... (You can claim "performance art," of course, but I suspect he could as well.)

First, Pelosi has to send the articles to the Senate. Unclear if she will, given McConnell's public statements.

I'm just not seeing the up-side of this. All a delay, especially a long delay, will do is open the Democrats up to charges that the whole thing was just political posturing. This time with something that is arguably evidence of said lack of seriousness.

Yes, McConnell is saying he will run the Senate trial as a farce. But I see no way a delay pressures him to do otherwise.

That 18 U.S. Code 373 is a needless and burdensome regulation which infringes on my personal freedom.

Again, with the flush toilets, only this time it's dishwashers.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-says-women-complain-to-him-about-ineffective-dishwashers?via=newsletter&source=CSAMedition

Apparently, every time a Presidential dump is deposited in the White House facilities by said President F*ckfingers, it is so malodorously HUUUGGGE that it listlessly and unflushably circles the bowl to the brim and Nixon's plumbers have to be called in.

They say to themselves, plumbers' helper at the ready (by the way, those things don't suck like they use to either on account of regs promulgated by previous low-suck busybody administrations) "My God, this is the fifth time today he's tweeted another bathroom battleship from his enormous hindquarters!"

Melania has taken to daintily removing the presidential product from the bowl with diamond-studded tongs and flinging them out the window into the White House shrubbery, where a lowly EPA regulator, faceless, unelected, but a guy needs something to do, carries them in a bucket down to the Potomac to share with the rest of America and the rising, low oxygen Atlantic Ocean.

"So much winning!" she coos.

Apparently, the woman who whispers sweet regulatory nothings into Trump's earholes regarding nipped in the bud "electric" and "water flow" socialism, is actually Stephen Miller in a house dress and a wig who, kneeling with rasPutinly intent under the President's desk to apply his hourly tongue-bathings, sez ya know, my liege .. my Judeo-Christian Godhead ... the liberal Jews and pickaninnies and libtards we are trying to kill are going to be APPALLED when they here my latest.

America .... frozen in steady-state, paralyzed appallment while it crosses the t's and dot the i's on a non-existent, thoroughly dead rule of law.

Graveyard up ahead. Everyone whistle in unison.

hear

Have a good holiday, all.

Yes, McConnell is saying he will run the Senate trial as a farce. But I see no way a delay pressures him to do otherwise.

McConnell points out today that the relevant precedent in Senate procedure, established during the Clinton impeachment, is to vote on a resolution that the initial procedure be a briefing, opening arguments, senators’ questions, and a vote on a motion to dismiss. The resolution passed unanimously in 1999 and the motion to dismiss failed.

You have no idea how much I hate that Congress has written procedural rules, then thousands and thousands of exceptions to the rules that only the Parliamentarians know.

Update:

The subhuman f*ck and his whore were fired!

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/radio-host-is-sick-of-the-impeachment-process-says-we-need-a-nice-school-shooting-as-a-distraction-2019-12-19?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts

And what a relief it is to learn that Russian asset and traitor Sebastian Gorka will replace the I-want-a-school-shooting-in-which-no-one-is-hurt (kids everywhere agree!) mouthshitter in the empty time slot.

Maybe we'll get to hear Gorka express his I-don't-worry-which-side-will-win-the-coming-Civil-War trash talk.

It'll be a step-up in the quality of the national monodialogue.

"Forget killing school children; that can wait until we murder all liberals!" --- the radio station's coming advert fluffing Gorka's show.

I'm sure Bonniwell frequents local restaurants where I dine, in fact, I've probably rubbed shoulders with him at least once over the past ten years.

I don't see how his digestion is going to hold up now that I'll recognize him next time I spot the fascist cuck shoveling protein into his murderous gob.

I suspect he carries in case the First Amendment disturbs his feeding time.

He's probably a sensitive, politically correct type with hurt fee-fees deep down in his quirky conservative, overactive colon.

I hope it's not a restaurant where I enjoy the food, so I that mind having the cops called to throw me out and have to wear a disguise to sneak back in later.

Can you imagine if Obama had suggested that a recently deceased Republican member of congress was in hell?

I remember when "double standard" was all about treating men and women differently. Now, it seems to be mostly about treating Democrats and Republicans differently.

Can you imagine if Obama had suggested that a recently deceased Republican member of congress was in hell?

Trump: “I like people who don't get captured”

GOP: "Oh yeah! That's the stuff!" /mass simultaneous O-face.

I'm just not seeing the up-side of this. All a delay, especially a long delay, will do is open the Democrats up to charges that the whole thing was just political posturing.

I dunno. They're doing it anyway and while it may give some weight to the notion, it also affords Pelosi the opportunity to spotlight the potential farce that McConnell & Graham have seemingly predetermined. The right to a speedy trial might have more traction, but maybe it's leverage to open up witness testimony?

The GOP grouses about "process" and "rush to judgment" only to have Pelosi get the articles passed and slam on the brakes. It's an interesting ploy I hadn't considered.

"Merrick Garland, mutherfnckers."

i'm so old that i remember when the GOP was really steamed about not being able to "call witnesses".

KNUS, Salem Nazi Media (annual murderous hate revenues of $250 nationally as a clearinghouse for threatening conservative republican vermin filth), listened to by republican trump cocksuckers all along the Colorado Front Range, employs this piece of pure republican shit:

https://cospringsantifa.noblogs.org/post/2019/12/04/kirk-widlund-nazi-executive-producer-at-710-knus-co/

Jew burner Widlund produced Craig Silverman's show on the station. Silverman was fired MID-SHOW (literally his mic cut and escorted from the building mid-show) a couple of months ago for daring to criticize vermin republican trump.

https://www.jta.org/quick-reads/denver-talk-radio-host-fired-mid-show-by-conservative-radio-station-after-criticizing-trump

Silverman is Jewish. His producer is a Nazi.

That's some kinda multicultural politically identity correct in pig fucking America.

I wonder where Widlund eats out.

Obviously not at Bagel shops or Jewish delis.

If it's Burger King, he'll be safe from me.

A profile in courage: Tulsi Gabbard voting "Present" on impeachment.

I remember this in 1984 when Nazi republican militia vermin murdered Jewish radio talker Alan Berg:

https://www.google.com/search?q=radio+shock+jock+murdered+in+denver&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS774US774&oq=radio+shock+jock+murdered+in+denver&aqs=chrome..69i57j33.14269j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Berg was this guy's best friend.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Boyles

In 2019, as we speak, Boyles has a lead slot on KNUS among the Nazis AND writes the lead column in the Cherry Creek Chronicle published by the friend of school shooters everywhere, Chuck Bonniwell.

Boyles is full-in trump and a massive subhuman deplorable hater of liberals.

He grew up in Pittsburgh PA, my hometown, and has managed to tailor himself as one of the biggest jagoffs, we breed them there, in the right wing talk radio universe in Denver.

Hate pays good.

Salem Media stock might be cheap down here.

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=SALM&insttype=Stock

I mean how often, at least since 1930s-1940s Nazi Germany, whose thinly-traded stock market soared for years after Hitler took over can I get paid with a 6.7% percent yield as I wait for republican Nazi vermin to murder me.

I'll even get invited to the planning meetings.

Tulsi proposed to censure Trump for these reasons—

https://gabbard.house.gov/news/press-releases/rep-tulsi-gabbard-calls-house-censure-president-putting-personal-political-gain

It includes the Yemen War ending the INF treaty, the Iranian nuclear treaty, abandoning the Kurds while stealing Syria oil and also Ukrainegate.

I kinda like this, actually.

As for the politics of it, I don’t know. It might win some more votes in the Democratic primaries, but not enough to matter.

Tulsi is apparently running for the coveted Even-The-Liberal- spot on Fox News. maybe she can cover a shift or two for Greenwald while he's busy not understanding how the world works.

censure would get exactly the same vote totals as impeachment. no Republican would vote for it because the GOP is a cult.

If her career goal is to be a regular guest on Fox where she gets to condemn Trump for his support for the genocidal war in Yemen and various other policies, then I am all for it.

censure would get exactly the same vote totals as impeachment

Not quite: it would get Tulsi's vote.

it would get Tulsi's vote.

a hypothetical she'll conveniently never have to prove.

A typically American, conservative, Friedmanesque sadist's cure for raising productivity among the schmucks who work for them:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/12/slanted-toilet-standardtoilet-productivity/603898/

Jeff Bezos will be the first to introduce the device company-wide, I'll wager, to go with the diapers his warehouse workers slosh around in getting my f*cking books to me in nanoseconds.

I think a better idea would be to introduce a heated toilet seat that would, say in two minutes, cause second and third degree burns to the undersides of thighs for toilet malingerers, or better an electrical current that would zap the sitter after a few minutes of thoughtful bowel movement.

My solution as a worker, should I have an asshole boss who invests in this capital improvement expenditure, would be to squat on his desk when he or she themselves are in the hurryupandsh*troom and take a magnificent dump in his inbox.

Now get back to work, you blogging malingerers.

Trump and conservative vermin are about to make homelessness a criminal offense, via Ben Carson, while keeping intact the perfectly legal practice of gummint NOT providing homes for the homeless.

I'm going to purchase firearms and hand them out to the homeless with a supply of ammo.

They can be libertarians too.

Oh yeah, lurking.

If her career goal is to be a regular guest on Fox where she gets to condemn Trump for his support for the genocidal war in Yemen and various other policies, then I am all for it.

If only. See Modi.

Living in delusion must be super comfortable. I'm trying to find my brand.

I've just watched a documentary about Woody Guthrie, and was interested to see that he wrote some insulting songs about Trump's father, who was his landlord, and whose racist policies he had discovered. I didn't know that WG had been brought up a racist, by a Klan-supporting father, but had seen the light in his adulthood (it's always impressive when people are converted despite their childhood indoctrination). There were scenes of Pete Seeger and Bruce Springsteen, and the whole crowd in front of the Lincoln Memorial singing all six verses of This Land is Your Land at Obama's inauguration, and tears came to my eyes when I thought about that inspiring day, and what we've come to now. I thought "How did we get from that to this?", and then (rather obviously) "Maybe that's partly why we got from that to this" (i.e. because of racist backlash after the Obama presidency). Nothing original, but it just depressed the hell out of me.

At long last, ITMFA can be used in the past tense.

"Speedy trial"? Sure, but the defendant needs to be, and be seen to be, McConnell, Graham & Co.

Members of the criminal bar can correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression is that many trials are not about "whodunit?" or even "what did he do?" but rather "what charge, and thus what sentence, fits?". In the present case, "whodunit" and "what did he do?" are not in question. The only question is: are the Senate Republicons shameless enough to call it "perfect"?

To try that question, Schumer needs to grow a pair. Or at least borrow one from Nancy.

--TP

oh, Mitch is gonna to put on the shammiest of sham trials that anyone's ever shammed. sham.

GftNC, your 6:20 is hugely moving. But don't be depressed. Be inspired. It's going to take awhile.

I often cite my dad (a WW2 vet, who became a lawyer, and who was a military officer for a career stent). He was a liberal d[D}emocrat. He faced this when he was a kid - he told me that we could very well have gone the way of
Germany (although, he said too - "oh no, trust the American people" - which was right if you look at the popular vote). The people in the 1940's beat it.
We have to do it too. It's going to take work, but we have to stay strong.

2010 was a disaster for American democracy. We [some of us] were asleep at the wheel. There was no excuse for that. There was certainly no excuse for us thereafter, for the Obamabashing, and such. It was cumulative, and we are responsible. We have to do better. The trick is: we have to be non-traitors, reasonably good citizens, reasonably good policy makers, BUT STAND IN LINE for reasonable Democrats.

That's always been my mantra. Please, people, get it! russell calls it ham sandwich. If [I hope] ham sandwich wins, write her/him strongly worded letters. Don't be speaking out giving fascist R's talking points.

Thanks.

oops - dog got in the way of my signature.

russell calls it ham sandwich.

I wish I could take credit, but it's an adaptation of the famous quote from judge Sol Wachtler about district attorneys and grand juries.

Any (D) running would be better than Trump. Vermin Supreme would be better than Trump. At least we'd all get a pony.

And yes, a ham sandwich would be better than Trump. At least we'd get lunch.

I'm just not seeing the up-side of this.

I can imagine it playing out to the advantage of either side. Or neither. All the usual people will say all of the predictable, usual things about it, whatever Pelosi or anyone else does.

There are a couple of basic facts in play, which are wrapped in 100 layers of political kabuki. One of those basic facts is that Mitch McConnell will take every opportunity to bring the impeachment effort to an ineffective conclusion, as quickly as possible. The one lever Pelosi has at the moment is the timing of naming managers and bringing the articles to the Senate. So, she appears to be trying to use that one lever to gain whatever advantage she can.

Godspeed, Madame Speaker.

We're in a weird place, with some very weird players involved. I don't think anybody can really predict how any of this is going to turn out.

I sure don't.

Cross your fingers, roll the dice, and hope for the best. That's where we are right now.

Best of luck to all.

wrs

We have to do better.

Well, OK. MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Same goes to the rest of you.

The evil laughter of the Moss Cow Midge from his recent interview with Hannity needs to get into as many political ads as possible.

So criticism of Democrats is treason - thanks for spelling it out so clearly.

Of course criticism BY Democrats is treason. Criticism OF Democrats is obligatory.
The sole exception of the former is of course Democrats criticizing other Democrats to the left of them.

I guess 'to the former' would be the actually correct grammatical form.

The sole exception of the former is of course Democrats criticizing other Democrats to the left of them.

Democrats (and "the left" whoever that is) criticizing Democratic candidates and elected officials hasn't been working out too well. Or maybe from novakant's perspective it has accomplished a lot.

“Putin told me.”

I see that the LGM folks are already on this.

When will this nightmare be over?

So criticism of Democrats is treason - thanks for spelling it out so clearly.

I must have missed that.

I think the point is rather that internecine struggles on the left ahead of elections are utterly self defeating.

I think the point is rather that internecine struggles on the left ahead of elections are utterly self defeating.

can we make that the ObWi sub-head for the next 7 months?

Maybe we could arrange that the GOPsters get into the crossfire. "Sorry, officer! I was aiming for that commie over there but the newt and the midge turtle walked into my line of fire. They aren't a proteced species, are they?"

For the record: don't shoot them, rather lower them slowly into bubbling BS (with a radish up their behind for measure).

For the record: don't shoot them, rather lower them slowly into bubbling BS (with a radish up their behind for measure).

"Some people say..." that fate awaits Trump in the afterlife.

Go long radish futures to profit from the coming shortages.

Who goes there? Excellent question in 1941.

How bout 2019?

https://harpers.org/blog/2015/12/who-goes-nazi/

China's miscalculation won't do them any harm in the long run - but could benefit Trump next year:
https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/China-up-close/Did-Xi-surrender-to-Trump-China-struggles-to-silence-chatter

Forget radishes. Go for something more like a turnip.

Rutabaga?

“ If only. See Modi.

Living in delusion must be super comfortable. I'm trying to find my brand.”

You succeeded a long time ago.

As for Tulsi, I have no stake in her or whatever really drives her. She sometimes says things antiwar leftists like, but there are also reasons to be suspicious of her. She isn’t going to be President so I don’t worry about it.

But I did like her censure resolution. It pretty much said what I would say about Trump. There are some rightwingers who are antiwar or can be swayed that way. I wouldn’t vote for their candidates or expect them to vote for lefties, but if there are more antiwar types in both parties that is a good thing. If Tulsi has admirers on the right, as she does, and they accept that it is a bad idea to give a blank check to the Saudis, that is progress.

wj, radish is the traditional choice for that purpose (iirc it already was in classical Rome).

Republican lawmaker is literally a domestic terrorist:

An independent investigation has concluded that Washington state Rep. Matt Shea “participated in an act of domestic terrorism against the United States” by helping plan the armed takeover of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge in Oregon three years ago.

The investigation found that Shea similarly played a key role in two other armed conflicts against the U.S. government — not only by showing up and participating in the standoffs, but by helping plan them, which involved recruiting armed militia members to oppose federal law enforcement agents.

the world is catching up to you, JDT.

wj, radish is the traditional choice for that purpose (iirc it already was in classical Rome).

ObWi is a constant source of educational tidbits.

This from the party of "values voters":

Asked Thursday by talk-radio host Terry Meiners of WHAS how he could stomach pardoning a child rapist, [outgoing Kentucky governor, Republican Matt] Bevin responded, ‘Which one?’
Good to know, I guess, that he thinks he pardoned more than one....

I think the point is rather that internecine struggles on the left ahead of elections are utterly self defeating.

This is completely ridiculous: we shouldn't criticise Democratic candidates before the elections and should they get elected we shouldn't criticise them either (Obama) and even if they failed to get elected we shouldn't criticise them (Clinton)and even if they are long-gone ex-presidents we shouldn't criticise them (Clinton.)

That's the world according to sapient and cleek.


You can say whatever you want as long as vote for the ham sandwich.

Bonus points if, in the course of saying whatever you want, you avoid persuading other people to NOT vote for the ham sandwich.

You're probably pretty safe saying anything you like, at all, here on ObWi.

Ham Sandwich 2020 - Do It For The Children

I would vote for a ham sandwich if it was an actual ham sandwich.

"Somehow we've decided that the one job in America that gets the most job protection is the one where you actually get nuclear weapons." —Gene Healy, Cato Institute.

Good to know, I guess, that he thinks he pardoned more than one....

The Trump era has basically given the most egregious belligerent misanthropic weirdos license to let their freak flags fly. At some point (one hopes) it will start undermining support for him (Trump) and - who knows, a guy can dream - the (R) party in general.

There is, for most people, a limit to their tolerance for actual violent insurrection and school shooting jokes.

I figure it's another few years before the fever breaks. The timeline depends a bit on how 2020 plays out, but sooner or later most people get sick of being associated with such obvious creeps.

We'll see how it goes.

You can say whatever you want as long as vote for the ham sandwich.

It's my understanding that novakant isn't a US citizen, so he won't be voting. He just wants us all to know that both sides do it, but Democrats are worse.

Please provide links to your allegations, otherwise we will have to regard it as slander.

Sapient wants Democrats to be disciplined, so that none ever criticize each other. Tell that to Buttigieg, Warren, Klobucher, Biden, and Sanders. It won’t happen. It shouldn’t happen. It seems to work that way with the Trumpian Republican Party, but for that very reason they discredit themselves with anyone who isn’t an idiot.. They don’t win supporters with their Trumpian idol worship. They just hold onto what they hope is enough in the landscape set by the Electoral College. If the economy crumbles, much of Trump’s support crumbles.

But on the subject of daydreaming, I’d like to see us have extremely short campaign seasons— say Labor Day to November. I’d abide by sapient’s rule for a couple of months, where we would only focus on which of the candidates is best ( or least bad). Even here we admit the flaws in our preferred candidate but point out why the other candidates are worse ( or have no chance of winning if it is a third party candidate). Treat people like adults rather than children who should only be fed the proper slogans.

The other 46 months of the four year Presidential cycle we talk about issues and what we think about them, without regard to how it effects parties. People argue about policies and the evidence for or against them.

What we have instead is a campaign season which never ends and one of the consequences is that nobody believes what most politicians or pundits say, because we assume they are saying it to score points for the team. That is the problem with party discipline. Even when talking about candidates I like, I’d rather read someone who admits his or her flaws than someone who won’t.

I said it was a daydream. But it doesn’t have to be completely ridiculous daydream. Or we could continue to live in a political culture where we are supposed to believe that incredibly crude mind numbingly stupid Russian social media ads were a serious threat to our democracy. If that’s true, we need to hire some Russian trolls to trick the idiot voters into supporting our candidates.

But to be clear, I will vote for a ham sandwich or even Joe Biden over Trump. Unless some Russian sends me a picture of Jesus armwrestling Satan. Then all bets are off.

nobody believes what most politicians or pundits say, because we assume they are saying it to score points for the team. That is the problem with party discipline.

Actually, that is the problem with lack of party discipline. At least, lack of the right kind of party discipline.

With proper party discipline, politicians could score points based on what they actually believe. Rather than what (true or not) will make their opponents look bad. If politicians were disciplined that way, primaries could be focused on substance, rather than on what opposition research has turned up that can be spun to make each other look bad.

Might do marvels for how politicians are viewed.

Barely one week after the election the sell off is accelerating already:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/dec/21/andrea-leadsom-approves-takeover-of-cobham-defence-firm-by-us-company?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1576915448

In the big picture this is of course nothing new:

https://twitter.com/evolvepolitics/status/1202663163021447168

God help the NHS.

Of course "New Labour" also did its bit...

That's the world according to sapient and cleek.

no, it isn't.

but, i doubt you're interested in being corrected.

I don’t expect people who work under these conditions to have the time to worry about Yemen or the Ukraine or how Trump violates norms. Anyway, maybe Trump is the norm with the mask ripped off.

https://newrepublic.com/article/155666/life-algorithm

Wj, you can define party discipline however you want, so long as people argue about the substance of issues without slanting what they say for the sake of the party.

without slanting what they say for the sake of the party.

we have party-based governments in the US and UK.

if their party isn't in control, the ideology of an individual representatives almost doesn't matter, since they will have almost no way to positively express that ideology. they will have limited opportunities to say 'no', and endless opportunities to complain to sympathetic supporters.

narrowly focusing on the ideology of the individual candidates and to pretend party should not matter is to ignore the fundamental nature of the system.

This is completely ridiculous: we shouldn't criticise Democratic candidates before the elections and should they get elected we shouldn't criticise them either (Obama) and even if they failed to get elected we shouldn't criticise them (Clinton)and even if they are long-gone ex-presidents we shouldn't criticise them (Clinton.)

That seems a rather strained reading of refrain from an internecine struggle in the run up to an election.....

(Which if you think about it is precisely a criticism of the Democratic contenders at the moment.)

God help the NHS.

Gosh, the Tories privatized Rolls Royce. And British Leyland. So of course that means the NHS is next.

Not saying they won't -- I'm too far away from UK politics to know. But that twitter list seems more like hysteria than anything else.

This
https://mobile.twitter.com/AP/status/1207609959241932800

Which Trump, naturally, retweeted.

The man trolls himself

This is a fine essay by the New Yorker’s Peter Schjeldahl as he contemplates his lung cancer:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/12/23/the-art-of-dying

Thanks, Nigel. Very worth the time.

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