Nothing really matters, anyone can see, Nothing really matters...

by Ugh

BREAKING:* In June 2019 President Trump pointed a loaded gun at a National Security staffer and attempted to pull the trigger, only to be thwarted by his substandard hand-size.  This according to a White House transcript released today in response to a whistle-blower complaint that, quote, "the President tried to murder someone."  The White House transcript reveals "POTUS then raised the weapon mere feet from XXXXXXX's head and attempted to fire (POTUS was heard grunting and seen sweating profusely), only POTUS' index finger was not long enough to provide the necessary leverage.  YYYYYY staff then calmly disarmed POTUS who was heard shouting 'I'll kill you you son of a b-----!'"

Responding to these revelations, GOP Congressman Jim Jordan stated "What's the problem here?  Did someone get murdered?  No. Even harmed?  Not at all.  And who is this staffer anyway?  He was likely a national security threat POTUS was trying to personally neutralize.  Also, I heard the whistle-blower once talked to a Democrat, so there's obvious bias.  And it's not like there is any evidence the President was shouting 'I'll kill you you son of a bitch' or something similar, is there?  This is all a scheme by Hunter Biden, and what about Hillary?"

.......

We're all gonna die.

*Not really

Comments

[Snarki, child of Loki]

Tomorrow's headlines, today!

[russell]

he's not the kind of guy to do his own killing. too messy.

[cleek]

careful, one of the Republican regulars might start clamoring for you to resign as a poster for such a flagrant misrepresentation of reality.

[wj]

What russell said.

Somebody who doesn't even have the courage to fire someone in person (outside a TV show) is hardly going to dare try to shoot someone.

Between Trump and the Republican members of Congress, a history of the Trump presidency should be titled Profiles in Cowardice.

[John D. Thullen]

It was further learned the weapon trump attempted to fire was an electrical solar-powered semi-automatic pistol featuring organic gunpowder and as the thing was wrestled from his grip, KellyAnne Conway, who was relaxing on the Oval Office couch with her legs curled up under her, was heard to gasp, but with a smile so inanely and maniacally sweet that diabetics in the vicinity pricked their fingers to test their glucose levels, "Our sovereignty, I say, our sovereignty has been take from us! The liberal Demon enemies have compromised our gun manufacturers too! Long live Carl Schmitt!!"

In a man on the street interview on the very street where Trump last shot a guy down in cold blood, a passing Trump supporter was asked if he thought it was "OK" that Trump pulled a gun on a guy in the Oval office and he blinked a few times and sputtered: "Well, tell me who the greatest President in history tried to shoot to kill and I'll tell YOU whether it was OK or not."

"It was Abraham Lincoln"

"Didn't we already shoot that traitor to the cause? I guess he could stand a second killing for what he pulled."

[John D. Thullen]

"Profiles in Cowardice."

See, there you go, what have we been told ..... both sides profile.

[Michael Cain]

he's not the kind of guy to do his own killing.

Always ask yourself, "How would the head of a crime family in a bad 1980s Mafia novel who has reached the point of trying to fit in with the rich and famous behave?"

[wj]

It occurs to me that all those Republicans complaining about the President's due process rights being trampled on may have half a point. Impeachment is a political process, not a legal one. So legal rights don't apply.

But what they are saying is that what he did IS criminal, too. Oh.

[John D. Thullen]

Actually it is true in these late days that nothing really matters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVo51UdH1_4

[John D. Thullen]

Earbuds on, kids. Volume low on that one.

[John D. Thullen]

The NRA peddles the weapons that will butcher and slaughter every NRA leader and acolyte in this fucked-up abattoir they created:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nra-turned-heads-with-this-tweet-even-as-the-saugus-high-school-shooting-was-unfolding-in-california-2019-11-14?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts

Gunfire inside the White House is likely improbable, but not implausible.

[John D. Thullen]

The NRA peddles the weapons that will butcher and slaughter every NRA leader and acolyte in this fucked-up abattoir they created:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nra-turned-heads-with-this-tweet-even-as-the-saugus-high-school-shooting-was-unfolding-in-california-2019-11-14?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts

Gunfire inside the White House is likely improbable, but not implausible.

[John D. Thullen]

He's out but still among the living to continue fucking my country from the "private sector":

https://www.balloon-juice.com/2019/11/14/turd-bevin-finally-concedes/

[John D. Thullen]

Review of a book by Fintan O'Toole regarding the roots of Brexit and the rise of nationalism.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/11/18/from-little-englanders-to-brexiteers

Have it on order from the library, but the review is worth it on the stand alone:

"O’Toole makes a startling comparison, late in his book, between Brexit and the Confederacy. Brexit won an initial victory in the form of the referendum, but is doomed to fail, he believes, because it was based on deception—the Europeans will never give the United Kingdom a favorable deal. And then: “The self-pity of Lost Causism will meld with the rage of betrayal. Without the EU as whipping boy and scapegoat, there will be no end of blame and no shortage of candidates to be saddled with it: anyone and everyone except the Brexiteers themselves. That most virulent of poisons, the ‘stab-in-the-back,’ is in the bloodstream now and it will work its harm for a long time.” If Powellite open racism partially gave way to anti-European sentiment, the political currents may change direction yet again, guiding anti-European sentiment toward a different target. It is not easy to decipher which country is following which in the latest transatlantic dance, but both America and the United Kingdom appear to be heading somewhere very dark indeed."

[John D. Thullen]

Hospital bills? Kneecap surgery, I expect:

https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2019/11/oh-rudy.html

Talk to the management ... right here!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv5kiDig2VY

[John D. Thullen]

Our pig shit media:

https://www.eschatonblog.com/2019/11/boring.html

'Bout right, I'd venture.

So many weapons, so many mass killings, and not a hair on these two bulletproof vermins' heads ever gets mussed:

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/dangerous-when-cornered

[John D. Thullen]

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/11/steven-menashi-second-circuit-senate-trump.html

The obvious solution to lifetime appointments for vermin, racist fascist republican filth is to shorten their lifetimes.

[JanieM]

Review of a book by Fintan O'Toole

I heard Fintan O'Toole talking about Brexit on NPR last spring. One of his assertions was that there was no more than "the thickness of a cigarette paper's" difference between the position of the EU and the position of the Republic on the subject of Brexit.

Only an Irishman.

I could listen to O'Toole talk for hours and never get tired of it.

(Translation: I miss Ireland.)

[Girl from the North Country]

This is not an unusual idiom here, Janie. Some people here still roll their own! But I too love the Irish....

[Girl from the North Country]

It is not easy to decipher which country is following which in the latest transatlantic dance, but both America and the United Kingdom appear to be heading somewhere very dark indeed.

I have to say, I have been sensing and fearing this very thing for a while now. I hope to God it's wrong.

[sapient]

I have to say, I have been sensing and fearing this very thing for a while now. I hope to God it's wrong.

Don't turn a one-note singer, GftNC.

[sapient]

Insert "into"

Not sure why that happens.

[Byomtov]

both America and the United Kingdom appear to be heading somewhere very dark indeed.

I don't know enough about the UK to say, but this is certainly true for the US.

If Trump wins reelection - especially if he does so while losing the popular vote - I think the country will split apart.

I myself, living in MA, would favor (peaceful) secession by the northeastern states - New England, NY, and down the east coast however far - maybe even through VA. I suspect many on the Pacific coast would feel the same.

[russell]

both America and the United Kingdom appear to be heading somewhere very dark indeed.

When I think of where we've been - both countries, really - today seems not so much dark as profoundly dysfunctional.

A lot of the really ugly stuff that we see now - Nazis, for example - is stuff that's always been there, the current climate just gives it an opportunity to come out and play. Again. We're shocked by people who are, for example, openly racist in positions of power, but that used to basically be the norm.

I think there is the opportunity for a lot of stuff to get broken, which could actually get very very bad indeed. But I can't imagine all of the people who have, finally, won a place in the world going back.

Whatever cannot continue, will stop. All systems seek equilibrium. I'm sure that seems glib but I don't mean it to be. Sometimes "equilibrium" is achieved by things like hurricanes, and tornados, and earthquake. But, sooner or later, one way of another, equilibrium is achieved.

To Bernie's point, I'd be open to secession, or simply dividing the nation on regional grounds, simply because I'm not sure I have that many interests in common with people in e.g. Texas or Arizona or Nebraska. It's a stretch for the US to function as a single nation, it may not make sense to continue that way. I don't know. I'm sort of agnostically in the Michael Cain camp on that one.

A lot of other things would probably have to shift for that to happen, for instance our position in the world would probably have to be different. But maybe that's on its way, given the antics of the current administration.

To me, the priority at the moment is getting the horse's ass that currently sits in the Oval Office the hell out. The man generates chaos faster than anybody can deal with it. No constructive progress of any kind will be made until he's out. Because he'll FUBAR it before it gets out of the gate, because that's his nature. If it's not absolutely and completely about him, and to his personal advantage, he will move heaven and earth to keep it from happening, or fnck it up if it does happen.

So we're probably just all gonna keep yelling at each other and getting nowhere in particular until he is the hell out of there.

That'll be somewhere between six months and five years from now, depending. The six months is unlikely.

So buckle up and don't freak out.

Members don't get weary.

[wj]

I myself, living in MA, would favor (peaceful) secession by the northeastern states - New England, NY, and down the east coast however far - maybe even through VA.

Not entirely clear why you're excluding North Carolina. Absent gerrymandering, they're probably in, too. For that matter, without vote suppression Georgia may be thete, too.

[Marty]

I'm thinking it would be a stretch for NC and Georgia to include themselves. Maybe Virginia, but south of that there is no affinity for the northeast.

[Hartmut]

I'd agree with Marty there (but as a non-USian that opinion of mine is not bolstered by first-hand experience and thus expertise).

[cleek]

I myself, living in MA, would favor (peaceful) secession by the northeastern states - New England, NY, and down the east coast however far - maybe even through VA.

don't forget for a second that Trump is a NYer, through and through.

there's no line of civility anywhere.

[russell]

south of that there is no affinity for the northeast.

Not a lot of love for e.g. NY in much of New England for that matter. Except maybe in CT, but they're sketchy, too.

Most of upstate NY hates NYC. Most of NYC hates Manhattan.

Philly's not so crazy about NYC for that matter. Everybody in PA other than Philly hates Philly.

Everybody hates somebody.

But yeah, pretty much everybody freaking hates the Northeast. It can be a little annoying.

[cleek]

But yeah, pretty much everybody freaking hates the Northeast. It can be a little annoying.

now having lived in NC for nearly as long as i lived in upstate NY, i can say that a lot of this comes from the amount of smug that NE generates, combined with its almost comical blindness to the fact that it has vast reserves of all of the evils it likes to lecture the south about.

people are people.

[russell]

Yes, it's true, we suck. And, of course, there is no other part of the country that thinks their particular regional sensibilty is the bee's knees.

Tiresome, isn't it?

Live where you want to live, live however you want to live, and maybe spend less time worrying about what other people think about it.

That's my motto.

Can't we all just get along? Actually, yes, wd can, if we can remove the freaking chips from shoulders.

FWIW, reading "evils" here as racism, you'll get no argument from me.

people are people.

Pretty much my point.

[Snarki, child of Loki]

Were there to be a "regional split" in the USA, the denizens of the ungovernable tribal regions of Outer Dumbfnckistan, deprived of their regular infusion of $$$ from The People's Sneering Republic of Libtardia, would soon initiate hostilities to get the "respect" that they are convinced that they "deserve".

See also, 1861.

Nuke 'em before they get started.

[Nigel]

Meanwhile, out in the real (?) world...
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/11/trumps-green-light-moment-in-syria-shook-the-world/601963/

[cleek]

all that said, i'd move back to the NE in a second, if Mrs wanted to.

i actually like a real hard cold winter - the feeling that the air outside could hurt you if you let it, the months of never seeing the dead grass because of the snow, the need for bulky heavy coats that become a burden when you get inside, slush boulders in your wheel wells, boots. winter in the south is like three months of NY mid-November. boring.

and i could do with fewer weeks of temps in the mid-90s.

[CharlesWT]

and i could do with fewer weeks of temps in the mid-90s.

And I could do with more. With a fan, I'm comfortable up to about 95 degrees. But I spend winters feeling cold about all the time. And that's in Texas. My metabolism is just too slow for cold weather.

[cleek]

Yes, it's true, we suck.

i don't think you suck.

the south has its prejudices too. so does the west and the north-west, and don't get me started on the "heartland".

[russell]

i don't think you suck.

dude, no worries.

I'm just looking forward to the day when we can all talk about real stuff again and stop worrying about who likes to hunt and who eats avocado toast.

[hairshirthedonist]

I look down my deli sandwich-eating nose at the heartland! (Yes, even my nose eats deli sandwiches.)

[russell]

If there is no pastrami in your revolution, I want nothing to do with it!

[Girl from the North Country]

Yovanovich testimony very damning. But in all probability, still not enough (partly because to a certain kind of person US diplomats are called "cookie pushers"). I can't believe I'm actually saying that, but it goes to show how far and how fast the disgrace/abuse bar has fallen.

[hairshirthedonist]

Nunes will continue repeating conspiracy theories. Jordan will keep screaming, "But it didn't happen! They got the aid! There was no investigation!"

[Michael Cain]

I'm thinking it would be a stretch for NC and Georgia to include themselves. Maybe Virginia, but south of that there is no affinity for the northeast.

Most of the people who do "megaregion" kinds of speculation put the urban parts of NC into a region with Atlanta rather than DC (eg, here).

This is complicated stuff. Relative to the question of NC or GA, what would happen to Washington, DC when the federal government located there is much smaller than it is today?

The only border I feel confident about predicting, and that's under some specific (but likely, IMO) future circumstances, is one drawn down the center of the Great Plains.

[russell]

Jordan will keep screaming, "But it didn't happen! They got the aid! There was no investigation!"

Say what you want about the man, he has his talking points and he is working them.

[cleek]

Jordan will keep screaming

it's really amazing how intellectually weak the House GOP is. true, the facts don't give them much to actually defend Trump with, but everything they've come up with so far has just been sheer nonsense.

i guess it's just theater for the GOP base at this point.

[wj]

I wasn't thinking so much about a region per se as about red states vs blue states. That is, not total fragmentation, just a simple two way split. Hence my comments about North Carolina and Georgia.

[hairshirthedonist]

it's really amazing how intellectually weak the House GOP is.

Especially in light of this:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/07/politics/volodymyr-zelensky-fareed-zakaria-ukraine-aid/index.html

The New York Times reported on Thursday that Zelensky had planned to announce an investigation into Trump's political rivals during a September interview on CNN, but those plans had been scrapped once Trump released promised security aid.

It's so fncking stupid.

[Marty]

Just so we are clear, no one has said they heard anyone actually tie the investigation to the aid. That would make it harder for them.

[russell]

I think it's the juxtaposition of "We're ready to buy Javelins" and "We need a favor" that is the source of the smell.

It's not a criminal proceeding, the rules are different than a criminal trial. Bribery, treason, or abuse of power and office is the bar.

It'll land where it lands.

[cleek]

the 'transcript' of the first Trump / Zelenskyy call is out.

other than several variations of "congratulations", the only thing Trump mentions is that Ukraine was always well represented at Trump's Miss Universe pageant. Trump never mentioned 'corruption' in Ukraine. he didn't give even the slightest hint that he was concerned about it. what's up with that? how could the intrepid corruption fighter not have been laser-focused on corruption?

[cleek]

Just so we are clear, no one has said they heard anyone actually tie the investigation to the aid.

Lt Col Vindman was in the room(s) when Amb Sondland repeatedly tied the investigations to the presidential visit.

start at p 27 of his testimony.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/08/us/politics/alexander-vindman-ukraine-transcript.html

[Girl from the North Country]

I'm very confused about that memorandum of the phone call, as also tweeted by Trump.

1. It doesn't seem to cover many of the issues in the previous release (no "do us a favour, though"). Is this supposed to be another conversation?

2. It specifically says it is a memorandum of telephone conversation, and should not be viewed as a verbatim transcript.

Also, what hsh said @11.24 above. That makes it awfully clear that Zelensky had understood the aid to be conditional upon an announcement of the investigation.

[wj]

it's really amazing how intellectually weak the House GOP is. true, the facts don't give them much to actually defend Trump with, but everything they've come up with so far has just been sheer nonsense.

It's not just that the facts are against them**. It's that by now they know that any reasoned argument they might contrive is subject to being overturned by tweet at any moment. Crazy conspiracy theories are about the only safe ground they've got.

** My uncle, an attorney, used to offer this summary:

• If the facts are against you, argue the law. (Not really useful in a situation which is not actually bound by anything except whatever rules the House might wish to apply. Although they are trying.)
• If the law is against you, argue the facts. (Not available, at least in the real world. The facts having been largely stipulated by the defendent -- although additional damning details keep appearing. And undercutting previous defenses.)
• If both are against you, pound on the table. (Which is, indeed, what we are seeing.)

[Girl from the North Country]

Oh I see, the newly released memorandum is for a call on the 21st, "do us a favour though" was in a call on the 25th.

[hairshirthedonist]

Just so we are clear, no one has said they heard anyone actually tie the investigation to the aid.

Circumstantial evidence of that is getting stronger all the time, and most of the people who would have heard such a thing, or might have said it, have been prohibited from or have refused to testify (so far...).

If we do get someone who heard someone say or who admits to saying to Ukrainian officials that the aid and/or meeting was tied to an investigation of or an announcement of an investigation (which is actually worse by being more political than substantive) of the Bidens, I assume you're going to reverse your judgement on the validity of the impeachment investigation, Marty.

Or is that not enough, because you think the Ukrainian's investigating the Bidens (and announcing it publicly on US television) is a high priority in the furtherance of US foreign policy?

[Girl from the North Country]

Meanwhile, according to USA Today, Roger Stone has just been found guilty of "lying to Congress and obstructing its investigation into Russia in order to protect Trump and his presidential campaign".

[russell]

Roger Stone has just been found guilty

My day is made.

[bobbyp]

Or is that not enough....

A rhetorical question, no doubt! Today's GOP and/or "the conservative movement" is the outcome of 50 years of pandering to the worst elements of our political culture...racists, misogynists, authoritarians, outright fascists, fundy religious fanatics, etc....all now soundly in its corner and constituting its base. Fed by a nonstop torrent of right wing hate propaganda, This rabid base must be satisfied and cannot be opposed by GOP officeholders. They are trapped.

Nothing will be "good enough".

This movement must be utterly destroyed, or you can kiss our democracy good-bye.

[cleek]

Just so we are clear, no one has said they heard anyone actually tie the investigation to the aid.

we already have a record of Trump doing exactly that.

1. we know Sondland and Guiliani and others had been tying the investigations to the Presidential visit (which Z clearly wants on the first call) for weeks. so the Ukranians know this is what Trump wants.

2. we know that the Ukranians had been wrestling with the dilemma of getting involved with US internal politics or not. we know they eventually agreed to do it.

3. in the second call, once the pleasantries are done, Zelensky has asked about the possibility of a visit, and Trump has complained about not receiving enough thanks, Zelensky asks about the Javelins.

4. Trump immediately responds with "do me a favor though". and talks about the investigations. again, Z already knows Trump wants this. Z knows what the investigations are. Z knows they were already used as leverage for the Presidential visit.

5. Z asks again for the visit.

6. Trump tells Z to talk to Rudy G, who has been laying the groundwork for the smear campaign against Biden.

tl;dr: the investigations were already the leverage for the visit. Trump, when asked about Javelins, makes another demand for investigations. there was the qpq for the presidential visit, first. then Trump attempted to use the aid as more pressure.

qpq

[nous]

Brief departure from the inquiry talk to note that we are all well and truly screwed by greed, overconsumption, and investors racing the climate train to the crossing:

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/15/778665357/the-u-s-natural-gas-boom-is-fueling-a-global-plastics-boom

Global plastics boom. SMH.

[bobbyp]

Good job, cleek. But the Marty's of the world will remain unconvinced. Even if the 'effing piece of puke broke down in public tears and confessed to his crimes they would still be all in and claim the "deep state" forced his hand.

There is nothing we can do or say to these people. They are lost to us. They have made us "the other". They are like the 1932 nazis.

They cannot be accommodated. They cannot be reasoned with. They can only be stopped.

[cleek]

Yovanovich testimony very damning.

when Schiff tells her about Trump's latest twitter-tantrum (in which Trump attacks Yovanovich) :

Y: It’s very intimidating. I can’t speak to what the president is trying to do. But I think the effect is to be intimidating.

Schiff: We take witness intimidation very seriously.

lock that bastard up.

[wj]

Roger Stone has just been found guilty.

So, does Trump wait until after the Senate hearing to pardon him? (The smarter move, on balance.) Or does he pardon him now, to help assure other potential witnesses not to flip on him?

[hairshirthedonist]

Because the Ukrainians took part in investigating Manafort, they were undermining the Trump campaign. Manafort, the guy who's now in jail, who Trump chose to run his campaign. So it's not Trump's fault for choosing a criminal to run his campaign. It's the fault of the people who looked into his criminality. It just shows that they were out to get Trump.

[cleek]

Wow. Fox News' Bret Baier says that Trump's tweets attacking Yovanovitch could be construed as witness intimidation and hence "adding essentially an article of impeachment in real time as this hearing is going on."

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1195371261456728064

[wj]

Trump's ability to shoot himself in the foot truly is awesome. One almost has to posit self-destructive intent (albeit, perhaps, not conscious).

[russell]

Roger Stone has just been found guilty.

What strikes me here is that Stone has been a rat-fncker living on the edge of the law for almost 50 years. And, the law has never touched him.

But he plays with Trump, and now he's going to jail. Just another frog offering the scorpion a lift across the river.

Ask Flynn or Manafort (or any of several others) about that pardon thing. Scooter got a pardon, Joe Arpaio got a pardon. Trump's associates, as of yet not so much.

Nothing in it for Trump, apparently.

[wj]

Nothing in it for Trump, apparently.

At some point (maybe not the impeachment hearings but the actual trial in the Senate) the Democrats are going to call as a witness someone with direct, first hand, knowledge of Trump's actions and the motivation that he stated for them.

If Trump wants them to refuse to testify, he'll have to give them something; or at least a reason to think they might not get punished for refusing. Which pretty much has to be a pardon. If nobody involved with him has gotten one, who would believe they'd be the first? To run a con, you have to give the marks something to expect . . . whether or not you have any intention of delivering.

[John D. Thullen]

"The Ohio House on Wednesday passed the "Student Religious Liberties Act." Under the law, students can't be penalized if their work is scientifically wrong as long as the reasoning is because of their religious beliefs. Instead, students are graded on substance and relevance."

In Ohio, one hopes this could be an acceptable passing grade answer on both a comparative religion exam AND a pop quiz in 10th Grade Biology class:

https://www.pinterest.com/babutanakia/khajuraho/

Somewhere, I have slides of those metaphorial reliefs from my visit to the Temple 40 years ago.

Will these sick-ass crypto-christian conservatives accept a reliquary of the Virgin Mary's intact hymen as proof in biology lab of God's super-duper penetrating money (the original prosperity gospel) shot, during which he yelled "Jesus Fucking Christ!", which is purportedly what Trump also exclaimed near the end of his many assaults on women, thus the depth of the support among his evangelical base.

Nothing matters.

[russell]

students can't be penalized if their work is scientifically wrong

Global warming is caused by the decline in the number of pirates since the 1800's.

Go ahead, teacher, give me an F.

[cleek]

M🍑

[Snarki, child of Loki]

I expect a certain number of students to suddenly find a profound religious belief the answer to all math questions is "God".

Because, really, where can you find "zero" or "pi" or a hypotenuse in the Bible?

[hairshirthedonist]

No one is forcing anyone to believe in science. But when studying science in school, you should be expected to understand what the current, prevailing science says. If you want to think the earth is 6000 years old, go ahead. Deny the science all you like. Just don't misquote it.

[cleek]

Q: π = sin(y/2). solve for y.

A:

In 1884, meridian time personnel met in Washington to change Earth time. First words said was that only 1 day could be used on Earth to not change the 1 day marshmallow. So they applied the 1 day and ignored the other 3 days. The marshmallow time was wrong then and it proved wrong today. This a major lie has so much boring feed from it's wrong. No man on Earth has no belly-button, it proves every believer on Earth a liar.

A+!

[russell]

There was the time the Indiana legislature wanted to redefine pi as 3. Just 3, no .14159 etc.

Some people like integers, what can I say.

[hairshirthedonist]

I'm somewhere in the agnostic-to-atheist part of the spectrum of religious belief, but if someone asks me what the Ten Commandments are, I don't list the first 10 elements on the periodic chart.

[wj]

if someone asks me what the Ten Commandments are, I don't list the first 10 elements on the periodic chart

Obviously the Ten Commandments = the 5th Amendment twice.

Duh!

[Pro Bono]

I myself, living in MA, would favor (peaceful) secession by the northeastern states...

Much blood has been shed to establish the principle that unilateral secession is not an option.

And, as Marty reminds us, the Constitution was framed to protect the right of Republicans in small states to vote themselves subsidies to be paid by Democrats in large states. Anything else would be frightening to devout believers in small government.

[Michael Cain]

There was the time the Indiana legislature wanted to redefine pi as 3. Just 3, no .14159 etc.

One year while I was on the staff of the Colorado legislature I got asked to research the details of this during the intersession. The bill -- bill #256 of the 1897 sitting of the Indiana legislature -- actually asserted a method for squaring the circle*. The bill provided that the State of Indiana could use the method without paying royalties if they adopted it into statute. The example given made π equal to 16/5, and the square root of two equal to 10/7. The bill passed in the house and died in the senate.

* Given a circle, and using only a straightedge and compass, construct a square with the same area as the circle in a finite number of steps.

[russell]

The example given made π equal to 16/5, and the square root of two equal to 10/7.

Hah, those are just rounding errors! We'll fix it with shims.

[Pro Bono]

The bill (#246 of 1897) asserts that "the ratio of the diameter and circumference is as five-fourths to four". That is, it claims that pi is 3.2

[JanieM]

You know, the Ohio House passing that bill is infuriating (maybe it won't ultimately become law...I don't know enough about Ohio dynamics to guess whether it will).

But then we get Michael's example, and Pro Bono's cite, and I'm forced to remember that religious fanaticism isn't the only explanation for gobsmacking stupidity.

[russell]

I apologize for my slander of the Indiana legislature of 1897, in which I falsely claimed they wanted to make pi equal to 3 by legislative fiat, rather than 3.2.

3.2 is, in fact, closer to the actual number than plain old 3 is.

Meanwhile, now that it has been established that Roger Stone lied to Congress and to investigators, is it time to take a second look at the whole Russian collusion thing?

[Hartmut]

π = sin(y/2). solve for y.

I thought the sinus function can only have values between -1 and 1, so this equation has no correct solution.
'π = arcsin(y/2). solve for y' on the other hand...

[cleek]

so this equation has no correct solution.

that's because you're using incorrect marshmallow thinking. educate yourself!

[JanieM]

Something cool can still happen.

ETA: fixed the link.

[Michael Cain]

3.2 is, in fact, closer to the actual number than plain old 3 is.

Of course, the ancient Egyptians circa 1600 BCE got to at least 256/81 (3.1604). Archimedes put it between 22/7 and 223/71 (3.1408 and 3.1428). Hindu mathematicians around 500 CE got to an estimate of 62832/20000 (3.1416), which was passed on to the Persians. Those have been reconstructed from archeological finds. Bless Gutenberg, who made it possible to create enough copies that a lot more things stayed in circulation.

[bobbyp]

Hey! Stephen Miller is a full out fascist and a racist SOB.

Can't wait for the excuses on this one....maybe crap like, "Well, nobody actually directly witnessed him saying this proto nazi tripe."

But no matter. Tax cuts for wealthy folks is more important.

[Pro Bono]

Zu Chongzhi calculated a range for pi between 3.1415926 and 3.1415927, around 480 CE.

[russell]

that's because you're using incorrect marshmallow thinking.

Timecube!!

The Dr. Bronner of nutjob physics.

[Michael Cain]

Zu Chongzhi calculated a range for pi between 3.1415926 and 3.1415927, around 480 CE.

More stuff that disappeared until it could be recovered hundreds of years later. I shouldn't give moderns too much credit, of course. I learned Kuhn-Tucker conditions. Sometimes after I finished that degree, it became Karush-Kuhn-Tucker because Karush beat them by a decade in his master's thesis.

Mathematicians can be so childish. At one point, for about six months, I held the world's record for computer code to solve large linear network optimization problems. I told my supervising prof that I wouldn't claim it because all I had done was take the previous record-holding code and remove the obvious inefficiencies.

[byomtov]

May I say, with reference to my comment about a NE secession and responses, that NC is a PITA.

For the past 50 years that damn state has been on the verge of becoming a sensible place. And for the past 50 years it has fallen short, some occasional glimmers of hope notwithstanding

So I'm tired of it. Let it join the neo-Confederacy if that's what it wants.

[cleek]

neo-confederacy? what you talkin bout byomtov?

in 2010, NC GOP won the state house and gerrymandered the fuck out of the state. the result being that even with essentially 50/50 statewide vote distribution, the GOP currently dominates the state house and Congressional representation.

the GOP current has a 10/3 advantage in Congressional representation in NC. the GOP got 50.3% of the total votes - including an entire district where the Republican ran unopposed. think about that: in 1/13th of the state, no Democrat ran, and the GOP still only got 50.3%.

gerrymandering is doing all of work for them.

but now, thanks to an NC Supreme Court ruling, the district maps are being redrawn!

and, it looks like the Trump-humping asshat who has been pretending to represent me, here in leafy suburban Pittsboro, just got his dumb self drawn out of the map. because there's NO FUCKING WAY NW Raleigh, Durham and Chapel Hill are going to elect that Trumpkin Wormtongue Mark Walker in 2020.

and Mark Walker (may he burn in a lake of fire forever) isn't the only one!

even so, the new maps aren't great. they give a 5/8 split (vs 3/10). but the NC dems are still fighting, so it could get better.

and it's been 15 years since the GOP last got more than 50.5% in a Presidential election in NC.

you want neo-confederate, look to MS or AL. NC isn't it. NC is changing.

[Jim Parish]

Hartmut: I thought the sinus function can only have values between -1 and 1, so this equation has no correct solution.

The extension of the function to the complex numbers does allow for values with absolute value greater than 1. For example, cos i = (e + 1/e)/2.

[cleek]

The Dr. Bronner of nutjob physics.

thankfully, Gene Ray used a font size that i can read. Bronner's wisdom remains hidden to my worn-out eyes.

[Girl from the North Country]

Sorry to lower the tone, but for anyone who hasn't seen it there is an excellent piece in the New Yorker headlined In Trump's Jaded Capital, Marie Yovanovich's Uncynical Outrage which I commend to you.

A couple of extracts (and sorry about the length, cannot post links using Chrome, Explorer or Firefox):

As with most truly memorable public moments, there was something raw and unexpected about Yovanovitch’s appearance on Friday; it cut through the rote posturing and partisanship to get at an essential fact. Yovanovitch reminded us that all of this is, in fact, amazing and shocking and outrageous. It is not normal. Trump is not on the brink of impeachment because of some arcane dispute over differing philosophies about anti-corruption policies in Ukraine. Yovanovitch, who spent her career fighting corruption in the former Soviet Union, was dumped because the President had allied himself with Ukrainians who wanted to stop America’s anti-corruption efforts. He personally ordered her fired. He spoke threateningly of her during a phone call with Ukraine’s new President and did it again, on Twitter, while she was testifying on Capitol Hill. No previous President—of either party—has ever acted in this way.

***
As Fiona Hill, Trump’s former senior Russia adviser at the National Security Council, told the committee in her deposition, Yovanovitch’s firing was “a real turning point,” the head-snapping moment when the handful of officials in charge of America’s Ukraine policy realized that something had gone terribly wrong and the President was going to war against the executors of his own Administration’s policy. Schiff identified its significance in his opening statement, pointing out that, while “the powers of the Presidency are immense, they are not absolute. And they cannot be used for corrupt purpose.” Those powers, he added, are meant to be used “in service of the nation, not to destroy others to advance his personal or political interests.”

***
“Partisan politics stops at the water’s edge,” Vandenberg was famous for saying, even if the two parties were never as bipartisan about foreign policy as his statement implied. At least the aspiration was there, even if the execution faltered. Yovanovitch still seemed to want to believe it. She insisted upon the idea that there remains an American national interest, as opposed to a Republican interest, a Democratic interest, or a Presidential interest. She was an Ambassador from our past, and maybe from our future. But not, sadly, from our present.

[wj]

GftNC, here's your link:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-trumps-washington/in-trumps-jaded-capital-marie-yovanovitchs-uncynical-outrage

[byomtov]

Cleek,

Maybe NC is changing, but I've been hearing that for a long time.

What is the outlook for Tillis' Senate seat?

[byomtov]

Zu Chongzhi calculated a range for pi between 3.1415926 and 3.1415927, around 480 CE.

How did he do that?

I suppose some of the early close estimates were obtained by measurement, but that doesn't seem likely here.

I'm also curious as to when it was discovered that pi is a constant. It seems utterly mundane that the ratio is the same for all circles, but is that just intuitively obvious?

[cleek]

What is the outlook for Tillis' Senate seat?

polling is still thin. but the last one i can find (from Sept) shows him losing to the Dem. he's got a sub-40 approval rating in the state right now. and he has a GOP primary challenger to deal with, first.

[CharlesWT]

Because, really, where can you find "zero" or "pi" or a hypotenuse in the Bible?

Zu Chongzhi calculated a range for pi between 3.1415926 and 3.1415927, around 480 CE.

How did he do that?

"Chinese mathematician Zhu Chongzhi (AD 429-500) used a similar method to approximate the value of pi, using a 12,288-sided polygon. His best approximation was 355/113.

The approximate ratio for pi also appears in the Bible in 1 Kings 7:23:

"And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."

(I should point out that the Biblical ratio for pi could be more accurate than one might think, since cubits changed depending on a person's forearm length. So, assuming the Bible isn't quoting cubits from the same person each time…)" A brief history of pi