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August 03, 2019


“My larger point is my sense is that a number of subsets across the political spectrum are driven by a view of history. My sense of the progressive left--and other lefty subsets--is that they have a particular issue with the white, western, Christian, capitalist world. My point is that, in context, (1) Christianity is a piker in terms of spreading misery compared to socialism--which some number of Progs are willing to flirt with if not entertain in some watered down form and (2), if you want historical perspective, both Islam and the Chinese and/or Mongols were much farther out there on the warlike spectrum than the white, Christian, capitalist west”

I agree that some on the left are overly sweeping in their criticisms. I occasionally find my teeth grinding when a secular liberal friend of mine in real life says something like “ religion is responsible for nearly all wars”. It’s bumper sticker analysis.

But I doubt your sense of the relative death tolls is correct. Western imperialism has a gigantic death toll. Leopold II in the Congo might have killed as many as Stalin and with a smaller population. One could go down a list, which is pointless. And Christianity was used to justify Western colonialism, as well as antisemitism. I don’t reduce Christianity to all the evils committed in its name, but try not to deny or minimize them.

But obviously the left tried to make up for lost time in the atrocity department, starting with the atrocities of the French Revolution. Some lefties take a no true Scotsman approach to leftist atrocities, but I think they are part of our history, just like Luther is a central figure for Protestants as well as a vicious antisemite. ( I think God takes a no true Christian approach, but have no idea how that actually works out when applied to people and vague abstractions like “Islam” or “ the West” as opposed to deeds. It is easy to judge deeds.)

Liberals distance themselves from the far left, but some liberals support “ humanitarian” wars. Give them time— they can rack up a respectable body count.

I also have a friend ( mentioned earlier in this or a recent thread) who is an Islamophobe. He sees Islam as pure evil. I don’t see a huge difference in the historical record when it comes to aggression between the Christian West and Islam.

On socialism, in the watered down social democracy form that Sanders supports ( and to some degree Warren while avoiding the socialism label), I think it is entirely consistent with what the Old Testament prophets and Jesus teach. The Bible teaches people to have great suspicion of people who worship Mammon and to have institutions to make provision for the poor. It takes for granted that the rich will trample the poor unless kept in check.

I'm pretty sure that quite a few someones have been made Nazis, or close enough, in recent years and liberals didn't do it.

As I usually do in the morning, I rose and took a piss and fired up the coffee pot. Then I lit the ceremonial incense to Kim Il Sung (Juchi!) and read several passages from the Great Helmsman's little Red Book.

Before firing up the computer to drive on the internets, I chanted three times (and clicked my heels), "You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs". Uncle Joe sure had a way with words, didn't he?

And then the question of the ages came upon me like the malevolent morning calm just before the Great Kahn's calvary mounted for another murderous charge:

Just what the fuck do we do about the good Germans? I shall let history be my guide.

FWIW, I think it's more likely that people like you--right or left-- scare the shit out of people like me, who think you've lost most if not all since of proportion.

eek! there's a liberal out there who is done with being called an-American-hating enemy of the state by a party that can't stop celebrating the most grotesque failure of a human being to ever set foot in the WH!

with all due respect, you don't know much at all about me.

From the same review of the mosquito book:

"The most dramatic conquest by mosquitoes came when old diseases encountered a new continent. When Columbus arrived in the New World, the mosquitoes there were pesky but carried no diseases. (Winegard chalks this up to different farming practices here: far less cultivation and disruption of natural ecosystems, and less direct contact with animals through husbandry. Syphilis was perhaps the only disease to ride the Columbian Exchange eastward.) But the blood of the new arrivals, and the mosquitoes that crossed with their ships, changed everything. Just twenty-two years after Columbus stepped onto Hispaniola, a census revealed that the local Taino population had dropped from between five and eight million people to just twenty-six thousand. Along with smallpox and influenza, mosquito-borne diseases led, by Winegard’s estimate, to the deaths of ninety-five million indigenous inhabitants of the Americas, from a pre-contact population of about a hundred million."

Mosquitoes are opportunists, like communists, religions, and capitalists whose policies kill humans.

We may be related to mosquitoes in our DNA.

As with Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Duarte of the Philippines, Bolsonaro of Brazil, and Steven Miller, for Robespierre the cruelty was the point.

anyone know the death toll for racism and nationalism ?

because that's something we have a lot of right now, unlike the faint shadow of modern European-style social democracy that has the right so afraid (it's this year's ebola).

with all due respect, you don't know much at all about me.

I don't think McKinney's really scared of people like you, either. Maybe he is. I'm no mind-reader. But I don't buy it. It's really just a rhetorical flourish AFAICT.

Commenting on a blog, short of believable threats of violence, isn't all that scary. (Well, unless you've lost all sense of proportion.)

Tried to read that this am, but not savvy enough to get past the NYT paywall.

Neither a Julian or a Joaquin does a Fidel make.

nor (iega)


My sister and her family (husband, two daughters, three grands) live in Phoenix AZ. Sis and hubby moved there over 40 years ago. They didn't start out as right-wingers, but now they are, and have been. As was my mother, who also retired to AZ with my step-dad, before she passed back in '03.

My sister taught me to read, and to drive. I was the officiant at my niece's wedding ceremony. I've known my brother-in-law for 50 years at this point.

They are all Trumpies. Sister maybe less so, because she's a strong evangelical and Trump is such an offensive beast, but basically all Trumpies. Niece and her husband are deep into the Breitbart / Milo thing.

I do not, and am not going to, hate them. There are simply enormous areas in which we do not share values. I think they are, not so much wrong, as wrong-headed. Mistaken. They think a lot of things are true that are not true, and unfortunately don't appear to be interested in examining any of it.

I'm sure they either think the same of me, or else don't really care all that much why I think what I think, and are just happy to go on their own way.

We don't talk about politics. Full stop. There are lots of other things to talk about.

If I talk about a "reckoning" that is coming due to Trump and the conditions that made him possible, I'm not talking about revenge. I'm talking about the lasting damage that is being done, and the time - not 10 years, more like maybe 50 - and difficult effort it is going to take to unwind it all.

And it won't all be able to be unwound. Some people - a lot of people - have been, are now, and will continue to be irrevocably harmed by the policies and attitudes that have taken over the (R) party and American conservatism in general.

That asshole in the "Fuck Your Feelings" shirt is probably going to pay, and nobody like me is going to make that happen. It's going to happen when he loses whatever job he has, or reaches the end of his working life and has nothing to show for it, or needs to go to the doctor, or his kids end up dead from an Oxy overdose.

That is what I'm talking about. And you can extend that to all of the international relationships that are being broken by Trump's belligerence and general rudeness, all of the environmental damage that is going to flow from his mania for deregulation, all of the animus he is creating toward and with minority communities, and on and on and on and on and on.

He is a bully, a bigot, and in general a fucking ignoramus. That is Kryptonite to leadership.

I'd love to help all of the angry folks who have been left behind by whatever it is that's happened to this damned country over the last 40 or 50 years. They don't want my help. They resent it.

So I got nothing. I'm just waiting for the fever to pass.

Also FWIW, I am probably one of a very very small handful of people here - maybe me and bobbyp? - who are actually not essentially capitalist in their view of political economy. Nor am I socialist. I'm not any kind of ist.

What I think about capitalism is that people conflate it with market economies, and with American political liberty and self-governance. I enthusiastically support both of those things, and neither of those things are capitalism.

Capitalism asserts that the value created by productive effort belongs to the capital investor. Labor is seen as, and is to be treated as, a necessary expense, and otherwise not deserving of a share in the value created.

I say that's wrong, so I'm not a capitalist.

In general most folks, including myself, have made peace with the fact of capitalism as the prevailing regime, here and in most places. We're just trying to keep it between the lines.

'Socialism' has almost no meaning in the United States, other than to refer to things the government does that some particular person doesn't like.

Dreher frequently makes me angry and other times I like him, often on the same day and sometimes within the same column.

Anyway, this is a piece about how the Trump Administration deported a mentally ill diabetic Christian back to Iraq where he doesn’t speak the language and couldn’t get insulin. Of course he died.


Regarding donor lists:


Right wing commentators cite George Soros' name on left campaign donor lists all of the time, here and in Europe, being sure to remind us that he is both a Jew and a self-hating fake Jew just in case cosmopolitan liberal is too coy for red meat-eaters.

In a world of total, malignant hateful bullshit, The Castro boys are a spot of desultory deserved pigeon crap on Robert E. Lee's statue.

The Iraqi Christian could have stayed in the United States for lots of humanitarian reasons, but affordable insulin, unless sherpaed in from Canada, was not one of them.

Flirtation with socialism being what it is.

"and difficult effort it is going to take to unwind it all."

The most immediate effect, and possibly the most dangerous, of p being gone, and I mean gone, will be the debilitating boredom that sets in when we as a country are no longer subjected daily, upon awakening in the morning, to President PT Jazzhands Barnum sending repeated electrical shockwaves through the body politic over otherwise pedestrian policy questions, formerly dealt with some degree of solemnity by people whose job it is to govern, that have been ginned up into a three-ring circus edited with quickcutaways like a reality show.

I fear the amount of dopamine and serotonin that is going to be required to keep America's frontal lobes functioning, but I fear what fresh Hell will be concocted by the next bigger monster so we don't miss the current show of our testicles being hooked up to car batteries for a group of right wing deplorable assholes' amusement.

Still, mosquitoes.

Some ponderables with regard to the ICE raids:


Gotta love it when they open fire on human rights and do structural damage to workers rights in the process.

They refuse to say whether they will go after anyone in management who was involved in the hiring practices.

Wonder what those donor lists would look like?

"The most immediate effect, and possibly the most dangerous, of p being gone, and I mean gone, will be the debilitating boredom that sets in when we as a country are no longer subjected daily, upon awakening in the morning, to President PT Jazzhands Barnum sending repeated electrical shockwaves through the body politic over otherwise pedestrian policy questions"

I blame Reality Television.

More destructive of human civilization than hydrogen bombs? Sounds plausible.

Use one to cure the other.

Donald, I grow increasingly fearful of Rod Dreher.

I asked the other week on one of his threads (no response from him) what sort of measures, surveillance and otherwise, will be in place in his Orthodox Benedict Option communities he wants to embed across the country to make sure the hated LGBT individuals who might want to share his faith are first segregated, and then discriminated against and removed, maybe by train.

This, after yet another prattling column about the vast majority number of Christians being the real discriminated-against victims in this country.

I believe he is dangerous. I think he is working up a bolus of orthodox resentment and hatred against the LGBT community among his readers and faithful that can have no good end.

That he cloaks it in his Christian sentimentality makes the hairs stand up on my back even more.

Regarding the murder of Jimmy-al-daoud by American policy via its instrument, p, this is how Dreher thinks: "The Left needs to back off on LGBT rights completely, (oh, and socialism, the meme) because it offends my rights as an Orthodox Catholic, or they need to explain to me why I shouldn't vote for Trump in 2020, no matter how many Jimmy-al-daouds are murdered by Trump's policies."

Dreher is a hostage taker. But he gets to play the hostage too.

He goes on and on about Weimar America. Well, we know what followed as punishment for those petty sins.

I plan to fight him physically one day.

He once answered one of my smart-ass comments by writing "You seem nice."

I should have said: "You don't."

He's the Jim Cramer of Christian identity victimization as he cites every maladjusted freak, a small percentage of the LGBT community, he can dig up on YouTube as evidence for his revulsion ... he's prolific to the point of chronic typist diarrhea like Cramer.

Well, and me.

Actually, he sounds hauntingly at times like Carl Schmitt, mentioned way upthread and about which more later, maybe tomorrow.

Dreher likes a strong sovereign to force his issues ... Bolsonaro in Brazil, the right wing freaks in Hungary and Poland.

No, we aren't going to do history again like that.

Dreher is so bad.

someone suggested that maybe white people shouldn't run everything! panic!

Both sides, blah, fucking heil:



Dreher is petrified because his side lost the culture wars on gender issues. I don’t think he is sadistic or cruel, but he is driven by fear and he makes his living being hysterical and playing Cassandra for Christians. I might have been banned. I have gotten a little sarcastic there lately.

The scary people over there are mostly in the comments. Not all of them, but some fraction are pretty much white nationalists . Dreher isnt that, whatever else he is. Violence scares him even if he does his best to claim that both sides are equally responsible.

The Left needs to back off on LGBT rights completely, (oh, and socialism, the meme) because it offends my rights as an Orthodox Catholic

I realize that this is a parody of Dreher's position, but it nonetheless is close enough to literal reality - for him and others - that the following question applies:

How does *somebody else being gay* interfere with your beliefs or your practice of your beliefs?


It's not enough for folks like this to affirm and practice their beliefs. No-one who does not affirm and practice their beliefs can be allowed to exist.

That is what is dangerous.

they think that the presence of and acceptance of anyone who isn't at least as Christian as they loudly claim to be is going to erode society. not just 'going to' - already is. that's why they want to wall themselves off from the wicked world and create places where they won't melt.

Maybe the solution can be found in these cheesy lyrics from an old metal tune:

He'd had enough
He couldn't take anymore
He found a place in his mind and slammed the door
No matter how they tried they couldn't understand
They washed and dressed him fed him by hand

Yeah I've left the world behind
I am safe here in my mind
I'm free to speak with my own kind
This is my life
This is my life
I'll decide not you

Withdrawn he'd sit there staring into space
No sign of life would flicker on his face
Until one day he smiled it seemed as though with pride
The wind kissed him goodbye and then he died

Keep the world with all its sin
It's not fit for living in
Yeah I will start again it can take forever and ever and ever
But I shall win

How many like him are there still
Who to us all seem to have lost the will
They lie in thousands blank and lost
Is knowledge worth this bitter cost

Beyond the realms of death

How does *somebody else being gay* interfere with your beliefs or your practice of your beliefs?

At a guess, merely being forced to acknowledge that gays exist interferes with his beliefs. Because, after all, that would suggest that God doesn't view the universe the same way Dreher does. That is, quite simply, an attack which must be countered at all costs. Lest he have to change any fragment of his worldview.

It IS the cruelty.

The hand of vigilante justice will one day lay on the neck of William Barr.


Emmett Till still has not been avenged to my satisfaction.

We will take a moment to bring justice to Mr. Barr only after citing the correct link:


Vigilantes on the Left like to observe the proprieties.


If you don’t like gay marriage, don’t have one. But don’t stop me.

If you don’t like abortion, don’t have one. But don’t stop me.

If you don’t want a gun, don’t get one. But don’t stop me.

It’s that last one, tho, that ain’t like the others, even as it purports to be. Because that’s the one I fear in Walmart (or wherever). The second one is self-explanatory. The first one... well, I’m just picturing a John Waters-ey thing, and that sounds like a serendipitous thing I would have a blast being caught up in.

On a sobering note, “blast” seems like a word that shouldn’t be used there.

I’m leaving it. You’ve taken enough already. You don’t get to take my words. You know who you are.

I don't think it's the mere existence of gays, it's that we've hit a tipping point in society where power is acknowledging the right of gays to be publicly gay. They don't want gayness to be mainstreamed or to have to be polite and acquiescent when someone gay wants to live and love in full view of their society the same as any het couple might.

it's against their religion for gays to be mainstreamed. Gays can exist, but only if power sides with the rights of ordinary people to cluck their disapproval and refuse them service.

Regarding Dreher:

His criticisms of classical liberalism, materialism, and consumer capitalism, which sound like Marxist criticism regurgitated would be valid to some extent, but not to free market conservatives, if the roots of his criticism didn't originate in his visceral revulsion toward gay sex acts and their increasing validation by mainstream churches.

Meanwhile, Peter Thiel, no CLASSICAL liberal.


I fear Peter Thiel.

I'm going to fight him too.

We will not relive that fascist history again.

This time, we kill them first, which sounds alarming.

But so did "Lock and Load" and "Give me Liberty Or Give Me Death", and "I'd like to borrow that Army for a Time."

Thiel is gay and proudly so.

So was Herman Goering, but it has nothing to do with defeating him thru force.

It’s just more of “the other” crap that I had really hoped we were getting past. The hypocrisy of “freedom” & “live & let live” is a blast furnace in the face sometimes.

I’m just venting. Apologies.

Vent away.

Requiring people to stand up in public for their political acts fosters civic courage, without which democracy is doomed. For my part, I do not look forward to a society which, thanks to the Supreme Court, campaigns anonymously . . . hidden from public scrutiny and protected from the accountability of criticism. This does not resemble the Home of the Brave.


It's true.

Gay pastors are not cruising Walmarts and forcibly hitching up straight men and other men with marriage vows.

Abortion choice advocates are not cruising Walmarts and forcibly removing fetuses from pregnant mothers' wombs.

I'm tired.


At a Smashing Pumpkins concert, and the opening act is whatever Noel Gallagher's band is. They dedicated their last song to our president. "All You Need is Love" by some obscure band.

I think there's a man-made floating island somewhere in the Pacific with Peter Thiel's name on it.

Bon voyage.

Probably too much to hope that the floating island would spend its time policing up some of the plastic (and other) trash floating around in mid-Pacific. Pity, that might have actually done the world some good.

Also FWIW, I am probably one of a very very small handful of people here - maybe me and bobbyp? - who are actually not essentially capitalist in their view of political economy. Nor am I socialist. I'm not any kind of ist.

"me and bobbyp" -- isn't that a song......?

I'm with you and bobbyp on this, though. I'm just inarticulate about it.

I have a hard time seeing how both we and capitalism will survive the ongoing ecological collapse together.

The lack of urgency in addressing the coming ecological crisis is depressing indeed.
Good article on the latest IPCC report:

One quibble with the article, this statement isn't absolutely true:
The biggest of these issues: Land can’t really multitask...

We've already demonstrated, to a limited extent, that land can multitask - for example, growing crops in semi-arid zones underneath solar panel arrays increases yields:

The AG has some rather unlawyerly ideas about 'justice'...

In response to the next question, about his love of the TV show Banshee, Barr said that he enjoyed the show in part because it delves into a “basic tension between justice in the sense of the ultimate outcome versus justice as a process.”

“Americans have tended recently to view [justice] more as a process, as if the criminal justice process is justice, and it isn’t,” Barr said. “It’s a process that’s supposed to achieve justice, but very frequently doesn’t.”

“That’s the theme in the Dirty Harry movies,” he added, before also referencing Death Wish...

And is apparently deeply confused about the difference between fiction and reality.

a man's got to know his limitations, Barr.

Christian homophobes also tend to subscribe to the OT idea that G#d will punish the collective for the misdeeds or wrongness of the individual. From that POV tolerating gays to live among us (even closeted ones) is a violation of faith/religious duties. Tolerance is an abomination in the eyes of the(ir) Lord.

I have a hard time seeing how both we and capitalism will survive the ongoing ecological collapse together.

Standing athwart history is one thing. Standing athwart physics is another thing altogether.

I'm not going to get hung up on 'capitalism', when Warren proclaims herself a capitalist. About as silly as the 'socialism' label in US politics.

But climate change need immediate and concerted government leadership - and around 2-3% of GDP worldwide spending every year for the next couple of decades on re-making our energy system.

Waiting until next November might not be disastrous, though it's not going to help at all; waiting another five years after that very probably would be.

I recognise that a global effort is required, but that is just not going to happen anywhere quickly enough without the US.

I have a hard time seeing how both we and capitalism will survive the ongoing ecological collapse together.

How about we seal Thiel and Shkreli in a pit filled with cockroaches? They can teach the cockroaches 'capitalism', so that it can survive the extinction of humanity.

Dibs on the pay-per-view rights.

Keep asking proud capitalists this question:

Will the Dow be higher in 2050 if we IGNORE climate change, or if we DO SOMETHING about it?

Don't hold your breath for a straight answer. I have never heard one yet.



Hard to answer a hypothetical question that assumes an option is available that isnt. Climate change is not being ignored already, so that option doesnt exisr.

There are significant steps being taken to reduce fossil fuel usage in industries across the board. These are already having a positive impact on the economy, in fact, the recognition of the potential impact of climate change has been a key driver in Anericsn capitalism for some time.

There is no shortage of funding for green companies, several VC funds focus on just ecofriendly solutions. Capital access is at the heart of solving the problem.

So, that the government isnt adequately focused on it says nothing about capitalism.

Will the Dow be higher in 2050 if we IGNORE climate change, or if we DO SOMETHING about it?

There might still be a Dow if we do something.

I recognise that a global effort is required, but that is just not going to happen anywhere quickly enough without the US.

don't wait for the US, because we're not going to help. our political system forbids the kind of changes that are needed.

I think that’s wrong.
Two thirds of voters back something along the lines of the ‘Green Deal’. This is a winning issue for Democrats.

And as Warren showed with her farming proposals a couple of days back (which she notably came out with in advance of the latest IPCC report), it can be presented to appeal to the ‘heartland’, too.

I think this is an election too far for Biden, though.

This is not the first such gaffe in recent days:

Two thirds of voters back something along the lines of the ‘Green Deal’.

voters are irrelevant.

members of Congress are what matter, and House gerrymandering + the ridiculousness of the Senate guarantee small, Republican, fossil-fuel-producing / regulation-hating states have an outsized influence.

if the Dems were to pick up 20 Senate seats 50 more House seats (all AOC clones), plus the Presidency, something like the GND might stand a chance. otherwise, there are going to be too many conservative and/or business-enthralled Congresspeople to allow anything like the GND through.

don't count on the US. we are not going to lead.

This is not the first such gaffe in recent days:

While that is an embarrassing choice of words, it's got a certain truth to it considering the racial wealth gap in this country.

It's a crazy world. Someone oughta sell tickets.

There's that.
In front of a banner saying "Asian Latino Coalition", though ?

And "we choose truth over facts" was odd coming from Biden.
It would almost make sense from Trump...

So, that the government isnt adequately focused on it says nothing about capitalism.

A significant portion of the book value of some of the largest corporations in the world are represented by oil and gas that is currently in the ground.

If we extract and burn it, things will get worse. If we don't, the nominal value of those companies goes down, significantly.

So, there is a tension there.

The folks who run those companies are doing their damndest to influence public policy such that we pull that stuff out of the ground and burn it. So, 'government' is not really operating in a vacuum.

In terms of their fiduciary responsibilities, it's the only rational move, even if disastrous.

Biden has made a lot of 'gaffes' like that: so many that i can't help but think they're moments when he accidentally tells the truth (as he sees it).

want a gun? plant ten trees.

i'd up it to 50, and require at least 75% of them to be alive (or replaced) every year in order to keep the gun.

If we extract and burn it, things will get worse. If we don't, the nominal value of those companies goes down, significantly.

So, there is a tension there

There is - though even that is changing.
You can fight economics for only so long, and the major financial firms are all recognising that oil just isn't going to be worth as much in a decade or so.... Japanese banks will no longer finance new call fired power station projects, etc.

It's not happening anywhere near fast enough, though. The timetables of climate change and long term investment are not the same.

Which is why government has to apply a very large thumb to the scale. ASAP.

"So, that the government isn't adequately focused on it says nothing about capitalism."

So, the tidal wave of campaign contributions from capitalist corporations and capitalist individual donors, much of which in the prior case is shareholder money accumulated via capitalism, to bribe the p Administration ... avowed Christian capitalists, though corrupt to the core .... its Cabinet Secretaries, and the entire Republican Party Congress to utterly halt the government's focus on global warming science across the board by defunding, firing, and gagging many of the best American government global climate scientists in the world is the fault of ..... socialism?

Bull fucking shit.


Bull fucking shit!

Dupes carry water.

Start bailing.

They are all fucking murderers:


Isolated incidents bleed together to form motherfucking conservative America:


In the follow-up to JDT's TPM link (most if it is also in the original link):


Hundreds of government economists and researchers based in Washington, D.C., the secretary said in June, were being given a choice: Move to Kansas City, or get out. They had 33 days to decide.

“Guess what happened?” Mulvaney asked his audience. “More than half the people quit.”


“Now, it’s nearly impossible to fire a federal worker,” he continued Friday, citing his own experiences. But by simply saying to workers that they would have to move “out into the real part of the country,” the agency had achieved its goal.

“What a wonderful way to streamline government, and do what we haven’t been able to do for a long time,” Mulvaney said. Applause rolled across the Silver Elephant fundraising gala.

What absolute f**king a**holes these "people" are.

Somehow, I don't think most people ever thought "drain the swamp" had anything to do with USDA scientists and economists. Jesus effing Christ.

No entities on earth are more focused on climate change than the oil companies. Yes, they want to extract their reserves and sell them, in the meantime energy is really their forte. So they are investing billions in figuring out how to transition to an ecofriendly model.

The government can make the cost tradeoff between the two models happen sooner, but the energy companies know it isnt firever.

NC DMV did the same thing: moved HQ from Raleigh to Rocky Mount, and more than half the staff quit.

oddly, Dem Gov was OK with it.

“out into the real part of the country”

Fuck these people.

Yes, they want to extract their reserves and sell them

Yes, and if they do that, we are well and truly fucked. For, like, hundreds of years if not millenia. And not just us.

So maybe their is a profound and compelling public interest in not letting them do that.

Start with that, and then figure the rest out from there.

“out into the real part of the country”

Fuck these people.

Pretty much.

No entities on earth are more focused on climate change than the oil companies.

They are focused on diversifying out of a depleting resource, and also responding to political and social pressure, nothing more. In sum, they are bullshitting us. The spin you put on this pathetic effort is telling.

In other news, the energy sector continues to spend big bucks to defeat measures that would actually begin to capture the costs of the existential threat posed by the externalities continuing to burn carbon (i.e., the fucking so called "free market" is under-pricing the real costs of carbon based energy).

If we were really serious about taking on climate change we would mobilize our effort similar to that undertaken during WWII, and we would expropriate the oil, gas, and coal sector.

We are simply running out of time.

So they are investing billions in figuring out how to transition to an ecofriendly model.

for example, Aramco is talking about a $5B investment in solar.

they made $111.8B last year alone. they are the world's most profitable company.

drop in the barrel.

($111B is their profit)

The Socialist Chinese global climate change hoaxers have opened vast capitalist opportunities for the world's oil and gas companies.

Corporate budgets in America and Russia are exploding for exploration in the Arctic while the only budget line item both corrupt fascist governments increase to subsidize the exploration .... socialism ... is the one dedicated to building dozens of military ice breakers in the race to shove the remaining melting ice out of the way to encourage and facilitate that exploration:


It's a hoax, sez Pompeo, but as hoaxes go this one beats P.T. Barnum's hoaxes by leaps and bounds in the profit margins.

As long as I got ice in my drink, sez Pompeo, what's the point of all dat ice in the way, anyway.

I'll take my Arctic neat, sez he, but don't tell the rubes and the dupes. Then we might have to pay them to lie for us.

"transition to the eco-friendly model"

Yes, yes, a "business decision".

The Mafia transitioned to the waste management-friendly model too.

It's our new business model ovah heah. How do like the tits on nat model, hanh? Not as laundry friendly as casinos, but you know, landfills are a good way to hide the bodies while we wait (meaning doubling down on the bribes) this thing out.

Me, the idea that garbage should be collected at all and not just thrown into the alley is a hoax, but we gotta do what we gotta do.

The IRA is transitioning to the knife, SUV, and slingshot-friendly model too as a hedge against nothing being done about their semi-automatic weapon-friendly business model.

We are long Bowie knives, while fading the cop-killing bullets. It hadda be done, business being what it is dese here days. We're having a little, whaddaya call it, a public relations problem at the moment.

Meanwhile, Rocco, take dis heah brief case ovah to da State Department and make a little Pompeo-friendly contribution to our associate's favorite charity.

Meanwhile let's get as many semi-automatic weapons out the door into the hands of Walmart shoppers as quickly as possible so dumbass conservatives can keep shootin all the wrong people.

I guess we'd better start .. ahh, ya know ... re-allocating our portfolios, Seymour:


Hold on, while I get my sea legs.

Come to think of it, maybe we ought to be concerned about the ice pack, because it's white and it's disappearing.

Like us.

It's a victim.

Ya know, ya might have something there.

Could be a trick of the light, however

But tell us more, so we can mesmerize our shareholders with some accounting jazz hands.


This guy is transitioning to the "Someone please shoot me in the head" business model:


There's more transitioning going on in America than in a Rod Dreher apocalyptic wet dream.

No matter how many of its dicks and the hair on its back Exxon has surgically removed, it's never going to be an eco-friendly runway model.

Alex Jones has a brand of nutritional supplements?

Who looks at Alex Jones and says "I wanna eat what that guy is eating"?

He eating their lunch on their tab.

He converts their money into steak and lobster.

It's a step by step dietary program.

Beyond Stupid.

Who looks at Alex Jones and says "I wanna eat what that guy is eating"?

The same bright bulbs who looked at Trump and said "I want to buy his steaks."

For a con man, what he's nominally selling is irrelevant. It's all about taking the rubes for all they have.

McKinney: Thank you for both your answer, and your kind remarks. I think your answer to my question is very interesting, for reasons that I do not currently have time to outline, but will hope to come back to.

OK, I made a numbered list of things McKinney told us, and the conclusions that can be drawn from them taken together with his various contributions here on ObWi. I am hereby withdrawing my intention to come back to it - he gave an honest answer to my question and everybody is as entitled as I to draw whatever conclusions they can from it.

for example, Aramco is talking about a $5B investment in solar.

they made $111.8B last year alone. they are the world's most profitable company.

drop in the barrel.

And the influence the US government has to stop them pumping is... very limited.

Unless they make it not worth pumping - which is where mass renewables come in.
(Note that Saudi Arabia itself now generates the cheapest electricity in the world from solar.)

I keep running into Genghis Khan everywhere, all of a sudden:


Craptacular Cultist Creeps run the world without my permission.

Let us prey:


If the El Paso and Dayton gunmen had murdered Tucker Carlson and Mick Mulvaney past week instead of innocents, America might have looked a little better going into next week.

America's aim sucks.

Meanwhile, p's thumb momentarily transitions away from his butt-hole to ruin it for thumbs everywhere.


I hope that little kid grows up to wreak savage vengeance on the filth who murdered his parents.

I hope he leads armies into apocalyptic war against conservative America.

That the blood-soaked thumb-up hands of those two perverted conservative ghouls were permitted to touch that child.

Who made that fucking decision?

We are sick fucking shit.

Oh, Lord:



Well, I'm about to start reading "Surveillance Capitalism", but I'd like to remind Dreher that I purchased and paid for his book "The Benedict Option" on Amazon, and I found and return to "The American Conservative" (like a spy sniffing out the enemy behind lines) via Google Chrome.

But, sure, carry on.

JDT, that's a very creepy Harpers piece.

There were already enough men ministering to the down-and-out, Vereide had decided; his mission field would be men with the means to seize the world for God. Vereide called his potential flock of the rich and powerful, those in need only of the “real” Jesus, the “up-and-out.”

Upon further reflection, McKinney's objection to Republican donors whose public contributions were highlighted by Joaquin Castro is even more infuriating than it was when I first considered it.

Even the vile Citizens United opinion recognized the validity of disclosure. This is a fundamental electoral issue about whether we're going to let dark money (of any kind) control elections.

Obviously, what nous said about the issue is extremely compelling, but just think about it. The NRA laundered Russian money to support Republicans. So many other examples exist. The person who has most abused the public disclosure of campaign contributions is Donald Trump, and thank goodness that Peter Strzok and Andrew McCabe are suing.

I don't talk about politics at work either, for what it's worth. Haranguing a captive audience is not appropriate. This has nothing to do with getting along at work. It's a matter of people knowing whether you support a white supremacist, authoritarian, regime (NAZI for short). If you're embarrassed to give them money, don't do it.

Please don't buy into McKinney's bullshit. He couldn't even be bothered to look up someone's nym.

Maybe little Paul's relatives, after his parents were murdered in that ordered hit in El Paso can appoint p and Melania as the kid's Godparents and have them stand in at his christening and other life milestones:


Just for clarity, there is a difference between being embarrased and fearing that a bunch of crackpots will interrupt your dinner with your wife and kids at the local eatery.

Or stake out your house with hateful signs.

For what is supposed to be a basic right to support the candidate of your choice.

Well, be brave, Marty. A lot of children are in cages, or went to their first day of school to find that their parents had been disappeared.

Cry me a river about your dinner engagement.

And, by the way, this. Not about who they voted for.

Do you have a link, Marty, about your persecuted people? No?

Didn't think so.

An article which says that authoritarian personality traits are at the root of our problems these days. Yes, this is obvious, but there are some interesting tidbits and nuances in here. Not sure I agree with all of them.

Plus, given the replication crisis in the social sciences I wonder if the study on which this is based holds up.


I don't know how Hillary Clinton does it:


They've got the guns in Alaska. Goddamned use them:


Maybe the Governor of Alaska will hang himself.

It doesn’t require much of a conspiracy theory to think it possible that one of the many rich and powerful connected with Epstein might have found it very convenient for him to commit suicide.

I think Hillary is out of the frame, though.
And the British Royal family don’t have that kind of reach anymore.

According to a comment on the digby post someone official from the WH already tried to pin it on Hillary (Vince Foster part 2).

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