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June 15, 2019

Comments

Never wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and the pig likes it.

Have just posted 2 identical posts to give Tony P some civil invective, with a link to an article in the Spectator. One was sent incognito (which I did to get the link), the second wasn't. Both seem to have gone into the spam trap, like before when I posted a link. Help (again!) and sorry...

wj -- fixed. I live to serve....
Also fixed a couple under Echoes from 5 days ago. Sorry, I should review the Spam file more often.

Thanks wj. It's so weird, even clicking on my newly reinstated comment in the right sidebar (is that the correct name?) doesn't get to it - you have to click on cleek's immediately above. Obviously there is something secretly and deeply wrong with my post, and the blog is trying to protect people from it!

Become a pig.

When finally the Pig you became a pig to destroy in his very own swinish, muck element is dead, while liking his own destruction on account of the fact that his vermin name is in the headline reporting his total pig destruction, you can shower afterwards and maybe enjoy a little pulled pork at the barbecue celebrating the saving of America and the now dead carcasses of all of the swine in the conservative, republican slaughtered hog movement.

Why split hogs when they are evil in their entirety. Half measures will not suffice. Go whole hog on their trip to fucking oblivion.

p and the vermin he leads in the republican party will only be destroyed by their own methods applied to them exponentially, ruthlessly and without exception.

cleek: i'm not up for following Trump's lead

Nor am I. And yet here we are. So are the Joint Chiefs.

hairshirt: Never wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and the pig likes it

I'm glad to stipulate that He, Trump merits the analogy. With apologies to actual swine, of course.

On a serious note, I ask you, cleek:
What's your judgement on Joe Biden's rhetorical faux pas? Was it even one?

--TP

What's your judgement on Joe Biden's rhetorical faux pas?

which one? the guy's a gaffe factory, and really not in sync with the Dem base.

i'm eager to see how his numbers look after a debate or two.

It's so weird, even clicking on my newly reinstated comment in the right sidebar (is that the correct name?) doesn't get to it - you have to click on cleek's immediately above.

I'm seeing the same thing. Weird indeed.

cleek,

I was referring to Biden saying he can work "across the aisle" and offering as proof his ability to work (long ago) with the likes of Eastland and Talmadge.

--TP

it was cringe-inducing.

if he wanted to talk about reaching across the aisle to vile people all he had to say was "you don't get to pick your fellow Senators, so sometimes you have to hold your nose and do what's best for the people you represent." or, he could have picked someone who was less vile as a example, and avoided the racial stuff altogether.

and that "boy" / "son" stuff? WTF was he thinking?

i don't think he has much sense of where the country, especially the Dem base, is these days.

i'll vote for him if it comes to that. but i don't want it to come to that.

i'll vote for him if it comes to that. but i don't want it to come to that.

I'd apply that to several of the other possible Democratic candidates as well. ;-)

I'll vote for Biden too if it comes to that.

I'd like to know however what it is that Biden convinced Talmadge (the man threatened a second Civil War if racial integration was enacted and he should have been presented with one then, but it's not too fucking late to get a civil war started right this minute against his racist subhuman heirs) to compromise on in either the latter's vile thinking or his legislative voting record.

There seem now to be mean, racist sons and daughters of bastards Talmadges coming out of the woodwork across the "aisle" in 2019, and if it persists, today, in 2019, and for example so much as a hair on the head of Brown vrs Board of Education is mussed by these filth, the aisle should become not something to reach across, but something to set afire and shoot across with nuclear weaponry.

By the way, the new nuclear war "posture" of our military is an ass-kissing gift to p, he of the 90-minute crash course in everything there is to know about nuclear weapons and his campaign trail question: "Why CAN'T we use them?"

One single nuclear weapon is launched by these murderers and every republican/conservative in this country will be butchered and slaughtered.

They need a 30-minute refresher course of total incineration and annihilation and I hope the rest of the word is gunning up to give to us. I'll be happy to die in that conflagration if I take every conservative in this country with me.

I'll goddamned slap the side of that nuclear weapon like Slim Pickens riding that baby down on any fucking red p state.

These things will not be permitted to happen without a savage retributional justice coming down on the severed heads of the entire malign conservative movement and their vermin children.

OINK!

The Trump administration is pushing a narrative to Congress that Iran is tied to al-Qaeda
Good God! These people simply have no clue (and apparently think nobody else does either) about the conflicts between Shia and Sunni Muslims. The chances of al-Qaeda, an extremely partisan Sunni group, having anything to do with Shia Iran are zero. Except over a gun.

John D. Thullen,

The new US nuclear doctrine is clearly more aggressive than the previous one, but it is nothing quite spectacular. There are some quite important points;
1) It makes eminently clear that the US President always authorises any use of nuclear weapons.
2) It brings up the possibility of the tactical use of nuclear weapons, but in thearer-wide, semi-srraregic context. Essentially, it allows tactical use of nuclear weapons mainly if you are losing badly:

A nuclear weapon could be brought into the campaign as a result of perceived failure in a conventional campaign, potential loss of control or regime, or to escalate the conflict to sue for peace on more-favorable terms.

This semi-strategic nature of battlefield use is underlined by the note that at least some combatant commands lack the targeting ability, and that no lower echelon has nuclear targeting capacity. It even notes that delegating such resources would be a huge administrative mess. Thus, there are no mechanisms to use nuclear weapons as battlefield support like the old Warzaw Pact doctrine did: delegating launch authority down to corps or divisional level to target battalion or company level formations. Similarly, there are no calls for nuclear torpedoes, cruise missiles or artillery. In essence, this document is closely mirroring the Russian "de-escalation" discussion. As a Finn, who might be on the receiving end of such a "de-escalation" strike, I don't find this superpower unanimity on the acceptability of such limited nuclear warfare very reassuring. Essentially, this document can be interpreted to say: "We understand that you might nuke Warzaw if we conquer Kaliningrad, and we will surely nuke Lvov if you take Warzaw, but after that, we can still make a peace instead of MAD."

Yet, while this is a step towards danger, it is a sane action compared to the overall style of American policy-making.

Essentially, it allows tactical use of nuclear weapons mainly if you are losing badly:

Of course, under a President who sees everything as strictly win-lose, any time you aren't definitively winning you are (by definition) losing. And losing badly.

Speaking of signs of the apocalypse....

I always knew smart phones were the Devil's tools.

One might say the same about books. As a lifelong reader, I have a similar postural tendency.

I want to know just what it was the young Trump was doing to come up with those bone spurs...

I know it's very petty, but Justin Trudeau coughing in the Oval Office while Trump is talking is making me laugh....

It was Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney, whose widow will be collecting his remains from an ad hoc Civil War battlefield morgue in the not to distant future, who coughed his shushing warning to p to shut his mouth about his fucking tax returns in the Oval Office.

Justin Trudeau, for his part, was in HIS office in Ottawa retching into a waste basket after his staff informed him he is scheduled to meet with our very special asshole in a few months to discuss high altitude Canadian cold air incursions into the dispensable (and the sooner the better) nation, America along our northern border.

Meanwhile:

https://www.balloon-juice.com/2019/06/20/tonight-we-almost-started-a-war-with-iran/

Incidentally, Biden confirmed, authenticated, and double-downed on his remarks, thus the terms faux pas and gaffe no longer apply.

In fact, let's expunge those terms from our vocabulary, shall we, given their irrelevance in 2019.

When a cute girl on a reality show eats live, poisonous spiders from a bidet, may we please assume she enjoys and means to eat live poisonous spiders from a bidet as a signal of her authenticity.

Lurker, thank you for the clarification on the new nuclear stance.

Your post is rational, well-considered, informed, and exquisitely restrained and sober in its respectful delineation of normative policy-making.

But given that the new stance will be filtered and interpreted through the mind of a beshatted cretin and the coughing, eagerly murderous monsters the cretin has surrounded himself with, I'll stick with my interpretation until such time that we return, after a cleansing period of savage retributional mayhem in every street in America, to a rational, well-considered, sober, informed, respectful, restrained, normative world.

OK, so it seems like I'm not able to post links anymore for some reason. However, I just posted a link to a tweet by someone called Scott Dworkin showing it happening, with the line: Justin Trudeau coughing in front of Trump in the Oval Office is all you need to see today. (It may of course be from an earlier meeting). It must have gone into the spam trap again. (Any IT bod - capable of talking to tech-idiots - who can tell me how to correct this from my end is very welcome to try!)

"Any IT bod - capable of talking to tech-idiots - who can tell me how to correct this from my end is very welcome to try!"

Not an IT bod, but:
10kt thermonuclear airburst over Facebook HQ

It's the tech-support equivalent of "turn it off and then on NEVER". Worth a try.

s/kt/Mt/;

grrr.

Snarki: loved your 08.22 suggestion.

Absolute incomprehension of your 08.23, thus neatly demonstrating my tech-idiocy!

Here the link confirming I was half-wrong and you were 100% correct, GFTNC:

https://www.indy100.com/article/justin-trudeau-trump-cough-oval-office-video-watch-8968491

Let's hope this becomes a thing among all foreign leaders meeting with he who shall be coughed at.

Would that they would be infected with the Ebola Virus and give out a throaty, mucusy, non-deflected croupy catarrh spray right in his florid, arrogant face.

I foresee a new way of demonstrating peacefully, while that is still possible, against this mal-administration.

Five million surrounding the White House for a massive cough-in.

Alternate with hankie-less sneezing fits.

Cough:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEpIycEqzuU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8F51Qd63_w

It's the tech-support equivalent of "turn it off and then on NEVER".

what you need to do is: turn it off for five seconds, then on for two, then off for 8, then on for 5, then off for 8, repeat 4x.

https://youtu.be/1BB6wj6RyKo?t=20

a light bulb with firmware? that needs to be reset?

HOW F*#$KING COMPLICATED CAN EMIT LIGHT / DON'T EMIT LIGHT BE?!?

somewhere around the third or fourth 8 seconds off / 2 seconds on business is when I get the hammer out.

our devices are just trolling us all at this point.

Meanwhile:

www.balloon-juice.com/2019/06/20/tonight-we-almost-started-a-war-with-iran/

So, Bolton almost got the war with Iran that he's been trying for for ages. But didn't because, at the last minute, Trump acted as the adult in the room??? I can't believe I'm writing that, but it looks like what happened.

Of course, it was pretty infantile to let things get to that point. But still, let us be thankful for small favors.

must be that the company that makes those little paper-clip-sized reset buttons that you used to find on consumer electronics has gone out of business. otherwise, GE could have avoided the whole on/off/on/off/on/off/on/off/on/off thing.

Trump acted as the adult in the room???

Apparently he asked, while the planes were in the air, what the casualties would be. Who knows if that's what happened, that's just what's being reported, take it with a grain of salt.

My question is : he asks what the casualties will be *when the strike is underway*? Not my wheelhouse, really, but I guess my expectation would be that the POTUS would be briefed on possible options and downsides, and then make decisions based on that information.

This is all just a freaking incoherent mess.

and yesterday Trump was saying that the drone thing just a mistake some Iranian guy made. but then airstrikes?

if the goal is to keep everybody guessing, it's working.

What russell said.

Of course, "freaking incoherent mess" describes most of this administration and its works....

Speaking of incoherent messes, consider this:
https://www.texastribune.org/2019/06/21/detained-migrant-children-no-toothbrush-no-soap/

So, things like soap and toothbrushes are not, according to the Trump administration, a necessary part of the “safe and sanitary” conditions for detained children that are required by law. And this from a gang led by a notorious germaphobe. The mind boggles.

Trump acted as the adult in the room???

Or maybe it was just Fox News. :)

"'Look, I said I want to get out of these endless wars, I campaigned on that, I want to get out,' he told reporters in the Oval Office on Thursday, according to Politico. 'We didn't have a man or woman in the drone. It would have made a big, big difference.' The president has reportedly sought counsel from others who are skeptical of additional foreign conflicts, such as Sen. Rand Paul (R–Ky.) and Fox News host Tucker Carlson, even as other Trump allies like Bolton, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R–S.C.) and Sen. Tom Cotton (R–Ark.) have been beating the drums of war."
Trump Is Right: Killing Innocent Iranians Would Be a 'Not Proportionate' Response to Downed Drone: Trump says he called off a planned airstrike against Iran on Thursday night, just minutes before the bombs were to be let loose.

All the way back to cleek @8:46 on 6/20:

"concentration camps"

if you have to write pages of text that amount to "close enough!" to defend your description, then the description is not working.

and

if your description of something is controversial enough to become a popular topic of discussion, then it is distracting attention from the argument you're trying to make.

but sure, go ahead, call me a "moderate" - as if that means anything anymore, either.

Maybe that's meant to be 11-dimensional snark, but I'm not getting it.

cleek -- it sounds like you're saying, in two different ways, that people shouldn't be calling these places "concentration camps." But surely the right wing noise and outrage machine is going to screech bloody murder regardless of what you call the camps. People shouldn't police their language in case the loons at Fox and in the White House pounce; they're going to pounce regardless. Self-censorship sooner because these evil sh!theads might try to shout you down later will mean nothing but shutting up entirely.

I think the mistake (if there was one) was in defending and explaining the label at all. Just keep repeating the truth, it needs no defending. Clickbait's government is in court (google it) arguing that they don't have to give the children they have in these places soap, toothbrushes, beds, or warm places to sleep.

Adam Silverman at BJ, who is Jewish, has been particularly pointed on this topic.

Earlier from Adam: Attention White Christians Who Feel the Need to Tell Everyone What Is Or Is Not Anti-Semitism or Is Or Is Not Like the Holocaust:

Shut your pudgy pie holes and sit your flabby asses down!

This includes, but is not limited to:

Megan “I know Hadassah Lieberman” McCain

Liz “Daddy’s Little Deferment” Cheney

And Erick “I’ve Got So Many Chins, They Cannot Be Fully Counted” Erickson.

Also, if you’re a Jew without Mercy, like Ben Shapiro, keep your Lashon HaRa in your mouth and sit your tuchas down with the others! And I’m not interested in debating you.

That is all.

Signed, one very pissed off Jewish American who knows damn well that they’re concentration camps.

Crossposted with wj's 12:44.

It seems that the term "concentration camps" has been redefined to refer to extermination camps like Auschwitz et al. Actually, the British invented concentration camps in South Africa in the Boer War (probably why my grandfather, who fought on the Boer side, always referred to "England the whore"), so it seems the camps AOC was referring to are concentration camps in the actually correct usage. I would post a link to Wikipedia on "British Concentration Camps", but as I have said I cannot currently post links and don't want to be bothered posting again with a complaint!

Should have said "to refer ONLY to extermination camps"

"freaking incoherent mess"

Have any of you ever sat and observed the reptile, raptor, and big man-eating cat enclosures at the zoo?

They move in deceptively slow fashion as they approach their prey and their enemies, who they plan to kill and eat.

It only looks like an incoherent mess, but everything is very rationally organized around feeding time for the subhuman brain stems of the inhabitants.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a28134428/clarence-thomas-cross-establishment-of-religion-first-amendment/

https://thinkprogress.org/gorsuch-environmental-regulation-epa-892f82ff3bc3/

The personnel infrastructure is being put in place for the completion of the fascist coup that began November 2016.

Her voice will be one of the those we hear mispronouncing our names as we are disappeared.

https://www.newsweek.com/dhs-press-secretary-katharine-gorka-breitbart-1444651

Only those personally loyal to ONE fucking vermin subhuman corrupt murderer will be permitted to serve in government.

https://www.stripes.com/news/us/white-house-considering-dismantling-the-office-of-personnel-management-1.576421

"The mind boggles"

Keeping ours minds predictably a-boggle, wj, is why, unlike conservative republican vermin, we haven't been stockpiling military grade weaponry and lethal ammo to bring justice to the reptilian perpetrators of these brutalities.

Yes, I know, there are seemingly reasonable, but isolated nominal republicans who have managed to secure an election here and there who might serve as resistance to these filth, but they seem awfully quiet, like grocery clerks stoically ignoring the rotting, poisonous food they are bagging for us to take home.

What good are they? No good at all.

We note each deplorable instance, we explain our endless ability to be appalled, like the neighbors when the first Jews in the neighborhood were carted off in the wee hours in Germany in the 1930s, and figure these singular events CAN'T possibly be related to a big picture of the future slowly revealing itself in our peripheral vision.

Elections. They will be stolen and if not successfully stolen, ignored.

And even if p loses, there are still 80 million or so of him among the living to fuck us.

But we will note the mind-boggling features of those predations

"required by law"

There is no rule of law. There is no law in these vermin minds, only laws that need to be gotten rid of in their malign self-interest.

All methods are permitted to destroy the monstrosity of the Republican Party.

They are giving us permission.

They want to be victims, like so many self-appointed small-town aryan reichsfuhrers resentful of the OTHER who move among them, but in the former's ingrown stunted brain stems, it will only be a matter of time before these uppity OTHER get what's coming to them.

Let's make their dreams come true.

Things are NOT going to get better.

"notorious germaphobe."

Hitler loved his pet dogs, but the only dogs he permitted among the Other he was murdering were to the keep the latter moving along to their fated destinations.

Sadists often subject their victims to the very horrors they themselves fear.

The precise moment of Trudeau's cough and the germaphobe's disgust:

https://twitter.com/MissFuhrerious/status/1141748608867479552

His gorge rises when any decent example of humanity is in his presence, but he manages to choke the bolus down in his throat if his specific personal self-interest is about to be cashed in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98vHt8hKMdk

He is the perfect embodiment of the subhuman vermin who voted for him and those who enabled his election by not voting for the trivially corrupt but serviceable Hillary Clinton.

You see, positive change might occur via normal channels using peaceful but effective thumbscrews to save what's left:

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3473007-big-u-k-investor-dumps-exxon-climate-change

But the constipated conservative/republican movement sitting athwart our government is immune to anything short of the bloody catastrophe coming down around their heads which they seek to prove and guarantee their authenticity.

Actually, the British invented concentration camps in South Africa in the Boer War

AFAIK, it was actually the Spanish in Cuba.

The precise moment of Trudeau's cough and the germaphobe's disgust

Does it seem a pity to you, JDT, that his horror of germs doesn't turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy? I mean, suppose he ended up seriously ill from one of those coughs....

...and yesterday Trump was saying that the drone thing just a mistake some Iranian guy made. but then airstrikes?

First it was a mistake, then Pompeo and Bolton got to him by themselves for a while. Then the Joint Chiefs showed up and read them the riot act: "Are you guys insane? We picked a spot very carefully and poked at Iran's airspace limit with a drone. We got a really good look at their S-300 radar and missiles in action. Their generals are all kicking themselves that they got tricked. But we've got to be sneaky about how we call off the strikes."

And the well-prepped colonel in the background muses, "We could tell them that we're saving civilian lives. The press always eats that one up."

https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/2019/06/21/nra-rallies-support-oregon-state-senator-who-threatened-shoot-law-enforcement/224006

Whatever happened to those law and order republicans who mourn like sniveling little twats (speaking republicanese here so they don't require a translator) when law enforcement officers are scragged by swarthy kids?

The NRA encourages the republican chimp to shoot and kill the police.

Find the entire NRA leadership, arrest them, try them in a court of law, since filthy conservatives like to waste my tax money that way, and then execute the NRA fucks with their own weapons.

Being an asshole, like p, despite being a full-time preoccupation among conservatives, work, work, work, seems to leave a few spare moments for rape and assault:

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2019/06/21/boris-johnson-and-donald-trump-have-a-bad-day/

Bad day lying about Brexit gotcha down?

Might as well head home and beat the shit out of the wives, girlfriends, daughters, mothers, and the cleaning lady.

How does Thomas define “demonstrably” ?

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/clarence-thomass-astonishing-opinion-on-a-racist-mississippi-prosecutor

Thomas demonstrably contradicts himself within a single opinion:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/brett-kavanaugh-clarence-thomas-racist-juries-mississippi.html
Black defendants tried by all-white jurors created by racist prosecutors, Thomas wrote, suffer “no legally cognizable injury.” The accused suffer no equal protection violation when they are tried by a jury selected on the basis of race. Moreover, prosecutors should be permitted to make “generalizations” about black jurors, because “race matters in the courtroom.” ...

AFAIK, it was actually the Spanish in Cuba.

Nigel, thanks for this, I didn't know about it (it seems it is a much less famous example, but since they also seem to have coined the term, they deserve the "credit").

cleek -- it sounds like you're saying, in two different ways, that people shouldn't be calling these places "concentration camps."

in many places, here for example, the use of the term has generated as much discussion what it's being used to describe.

that's a problem.

more heat than light.

but maybe that's the goal.

GFtNC:
It seems that the term "concentration camps" has been redefined to refer to extermination camps like Auschwitz et al.

right.

but a semantic argument isn't going to help stop Trump.

Race won't matter in the courtroom Thomas and company are tried in.

if only Trudeau had barfed on Trump's lapels.

put me in the same room as Trump, i might be able to do it.

but a semantic argument isn't going to help stop Trump.

I absolutely agree, cleek. I was just trying to make the point that AOC was being accurate in calling them concentration camps, not whether it was tactically advisable to do so. As to the latter, I rather think that the discussion helps keep the issue alive, so may be a help after all. I hope so, anyway. (As you know, I do not agree to call Trump et al Nazis, for what I think are similar reasons to yours, as well as for reasons of accuracy.)

but a semantic argument isn't going to help stop Trump.

What is going to help stop Trump? And what is going to stop the camps?

If only p, et al observed the proprieties ..... at all.

What is going to help stop Trump?

other than voting him out next November, i don't know.

And what is going to stop the camps?

stopping Trump.

Nothing will stop him:

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-4-eva-tweet

Better to call them Nazis loud and clear now than wait until 2048 for the necessary D-Day and the fire-bombing of Dresden.

There's a double bind. Any discussion that tells the truth about the camps, under whatever label, will draw the kind of deflecting BS that the Rs want to keep going in order to keep people busy with anything but getting the camps closed. To me the finger-wagging and faux outrage (Megan McCain? spare me) about the use of a particular label is just another way to muzzle people.

There are no ordinary "tactics" that work with these people, that's why they're running the country now. But I do think we could all use a dose of GBS, citing, IIRC, William Morris: "Don't argue, repeat your assertion."

Vigils being organized for 7/12 at and against the camps. HT BJ, as usual.

As to the latter, I rather think that the discussion helps keep the issue alive, so may be a help after all. I hope so, anyway.

i hope you're right.

But I do think we could all use a dose of GBS, citing, IIRC, William Morris: "Don't argue, repeat your assertion."

I think this is excellent advice. From Janie's lips to all the Dems' ears.

There is no redefinition; concentration camp is a synonym (albeit now a heavily charged one) for internment camp.
The essence of the definition is place of mass confinement, and those confined not having faced criminal charges.

Extermination camps were a quite different thing, even as defined by Nazis - perhaps seventy out of seven hundred thousand survived the extermination camp Treblinka, and that only because they broke out in a prisoner uprising.

Well, GBS repeated his assertion in the 1930s, in front of a Soviet audience, in the Soviet Union, that there was nothing to see in the Ukraine, except a few malcontents complaining about stomach pangs because they missed breakfast.

He then told the audience that he was so convinced of his assertion that on his way to the Soviet Union, he threw tins of food out the train window to demonstrate his disbelieve in the scandalous rumors of mass starvation and murder, at which point even some Soviets in the audience, despite their fear, groaned and gasped at the thought of that food wasted and prevented from reaching their tables.

Reading Annie Applebaum's "Fred Famine" at the moment, from whence that anecdote is lifted.

She's a conservative, rabidly anti-p, and aghast at the anti-Semitism and right wing filth now ascendant in Poland, which she witnessed arising when she lived there for several recent years.

Here's my takeaway from the book, however.

p and company's fake news language framing of current events in these last five years is so like Stalin's murderous bullshit propaganda regarding the Ukraine in the 1930's that you might conclude p graduated from the Joe Stalin Seminary for Wayward Despotic Assholes.

He's Russian by another mother, and fuck his mother.

Nazi, Stalinist, Pol Pot, let it all hang out.

Polite coughing ain't gonna do it, IMAO.

JDT: yes, GBS went off the rails pretty badly as the 20th century progressed.

Having reread the four fat volumes of his collected letters within the last 2-3 years, I see more clearly than I did as a young adult that he was far too full of his own infallibility for his own and everyone else's good. I -- we all, I'm sure -- have known people like that in real life, although none of the infallible self-styled geniuses I know have balanced their delusions of grandeur with the actual grandeur and genius of GBS's positive accomplishments.

The quote still applies. Another quote, unattributed, that applies to the first quote: "An idea isn't responsible for the people who espouse it."

And yes, by whatever labels, we have seen this movie before. I don't know how to stop Clickbait either, all the more since he is just the distillation of a psychic and political strand that is always with us. "Never again" -- we don't know how to do that.

There is no redefinition...Extermination camps were a quite different thing

what do you get if you Google "concentration camp"?

for me, Google gives a definition right at the top of the results:

con·cen·tra·tion camp /ˌkänsənˈtrāSHən ˈˌkamp/ noun noun: concentration camp; plural noun: concentration camps

a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution. The term is most strongly associated with the several hundred camps established by the Nazis in Germany and occupied Europe in 1933–45, among the most infamous being Dachau, Belsen, and Auschwitz.

that reflects the typical usage in America.

the terms have merged.

There are no fucking conservatives/republicans who give a shit what hairs we split claiming naming rights for these criminal travesties.

In fact, the worse the name is, the more they delight is rolling around in their own feces, and the more they like the fact that liberals are once again wasting time defining terms, when overthrowing this regime violently is the only deserved justice.

But I'm open to spending the week deciding what to call this revolution.

We can decide franchising, residuals, and royalties later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_6tzJmEExw

Sometimes a single gun shot can galvanize the attention and move business along.

"Red Famine"

Fred Rogers, Fred Flintstone, Freddie Mercury, nut not Fred Famine.

But I do think we could all use a dose of GBS, citing, IIRC, William Morris: "Don't argue, repeat your assertion."

A biography of GBS reports his describing William Morris as "fond of quoting Robert Owen's rule: 'Don't argue: repeat your assertion'".

However, Wikiquote has relegated the quotation to its Robert Owen discussion page as unsourced.

I'm the nut.

Calling things by their right names is a blow against the forces of chaos and falsehood. I think it is an important weapon in its own right, albeit possibly one with a long fuse.

he is just the distillation of a psychic and political strand that is always with us.

Yes.

"Never again" -- we don't know how to do that.

No so much "never again" as "not this shit again!".

But, unfortunately, yes. This same sorry shit, again.

These are my thoughts concerning now, through probably the next 50 or maybe 100 years.

We're going to grow from 7 billion to at least 10 billion people on the planet. Climate change is going to disrupt established patterns of human settlement and activity. The difference between people who have stuff and live a reasonably secure and comfortable life, and people who do not, is going to be increasingly acute.

People are not going to sit around at home an starve to death, or die of thirst or disease, or live under oppressive exploitative regimes, in order not to disturb people who live comfortably. You wouldn't, and I wouldn't, and they won't either.

We - people who live lives of relative security and comfort - are going to have to figure out how to help all of the people who do not live with those blessings. Either that, or their suffering will become ours, in one way or another.

If we can't find a way to make that happen out of the goodness of our hearts, we should at least figure it out from pure self-interest.

There are Africans among the Central Americans trying to get across the border to claim asylum. That means they got themselves from Africa to South America, then somehow to Central America, then somehow across Mexico. To show up on our doorstep in TX or AZ.

A fucking wall is not going to make those people stay away. Putting them in an enclosed camp to sleep on a concrete floor is not going to make them stay away.

If we can't find a way to share our good fortune with the rest of the world, the rest of the world will find a way to change our minds. Or, our refusal to change our minds will turn us into beasts.

The Central American wave is the tip of the iceberg.

That's what I think.

There are Africans among the Central Americans trying to get across the border to claim asylum. That means they got themselves from Africa to South America, then somehow to Central America, then somehow across Mexico. To show up on our doorstep in TX or AZ.

The story of one such family. And another.

Cannot disagree with a word of Russell's 11.50.

Neither can I.

But I don't have the audience share of this fascist carrier of conservative rabies.

https://www.mediamatters.org/video/2019/06/21/laura-ingraham-most-migrants-entering-us-could-be-carrying-diseases-which-may-lead-nationwide/224008

She'll win the hate argument every time given the present political composition of the country.

Quarantine her. At the very least.

A fucking wall is not going to make those people stay away. Putting them in an enclosed camp to sleep on a concrete floor is not going to make them stay away.

If we can't find a way to share our good fortune with the rest of the world, the rest of the world will find a way to change our minds.

But, but . . . I mean, it worked so well for King Canute!**

** Yes, I do know that Canute was making a point to the syncophants around him -- he knew damn well it wouldn't work. Not something Trump would ever consider. But the point remains.

Regarding concentration camps, Timothy Snyder is worth reading (I can also recommend his books "Bloodlands" and "Black Earth"):

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/19/opinions/liz-cheney-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-concentration-camps-snyder/index.html

Just to round out the stories of those particular families up to the moment: as russell says, they got themselves from Africa to South America, then somehow to Central America, then somehow across Mexico. To show up on our doorstep in TX or AZ...

...and then through the bureaucracy, and finally somehow to Maine, a journey of the FSM only knows how many bus changes, and how many ICE challenges on buses along the way.

With kids in tow.

Donations to help them accepted here and here. Not an exhaustive list, I'm sure.

I am still giving money to RAICES and the Texas Civil Rights Project, and will continue to do so. But these people who have come to Portland -- many of them will be in effect my neighbors, Maine being one big small town. I don't know what's the right balance between trying to affect the big picture, and helping to feed the hungry (so to speak) right on my doorstep. There probably is no "right" balance; we do what we can.

something is more than nothing. always.

and may I also say, bugger this noise.

violence and threats of violence to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion constitute terrorism under the US Code.

who the hell do these guys think they are? how long are the rest of us supposed to put up with this BS?

If you don't like the laws where you live, work to change the law. If you can't change the law, suck it up and try harder next time. God knows the rest of us do.

If none of that works, move. If you can't find anyplace to move to that is congenial to your particular point of view, maybe a look in the mirror is warranted.

Children with guns. Full-grown children, but children. Who never learned the part about getting along with others. With guns.

Not a good combination.

who the hell do these guys think they are?

Trump's base.

it's a shame domestic terrorism isn't a crime on its own.

who the hell do these guys think they are? how long are the rest of us supposed to put up with this BS?

The states are laboratories, where new ideas can be tried out. Not just for possible future Federal implementation, but for implementation in other states as well. It appears the Oregon's Republican state senators are following the example of Wisconsin's Democratic legislators a couple of years ago.

In a similar vein (If you do it today, your opponents may do similarly tomorrow) I wonder if the Supreme Court's conservatives will rue their new habit of throwing stare decisis to the winds. Actually, I don't doubt it will come back to haunt them, the only question is, How soon?

Do we remember when Wisconsin Democratic legislators fled their state in 2011, was it, and then armed liberal militia shot up the State Capitol, killing every republican and conservative in the area when their runt republican governor threatened to haul the Dem legislators back against their will.

I don't either, but I have a feeling p and conservative putin vomit radio will.

For Janie:

https://www.pressherald.com/2019/06/16/paul-lepage-has-a-new-job-tending-bar-in-maine/

I'm pretty sure he's not responsible enough for that job either.

I agree with the Snyder recommendation.

He’s a fine historian - though, as he has a conscience, a controversial one.

that reflects the typical usage in America.
the terms have merged.

Fair enough.
I’m not enough of a pedant to insist on the original meaning, but Snyder is much closer to the essential point - they are effectively lawless places for those interned.
The consequences for internees depend on the regime in charge, not the precise definition.

it appears the Oregon's Republican state senators are following the example of Wisconsin's Democratic legislators a couple of years ago.

I don't have a big problem with the (R) senators hiding to avoid the vote. Nor with the state trying to round them up.

I have a problem with self-appointed "patriots" threatening violence to make sure things go the way they want.

they are effectively lawless places for those interned.

no question.

The consequences for internees depend on the regime in charge, not the precise definition.

indeed

just for clarification: the above was not a "both sides". things really did turn out differently for immigrants when Obama put them in Ft Sill.

The paper tiger backs off at home as well.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/2019/06/22/trump-says-some-cities-are-going-fight-planned-ice-raids-major-cities-vow-resist/

Suddenly, a 2 week delay in the raids. By then, he may have totally forgotten about the whole idea....

China and the US and world trade, the big picture from a very smart person:

https://www.barrons.com/articles/the-new-world-order-will-have-china-on-top-51560513601

Regarding the 2-week delay in immigration fascism, this is p's MO. Stop, start, feint, duck, lie, cheat, bullshit, bully .... all in a house of mirrors and cross echos.

It's how he manipulates and fakes control over his environment.

It keeps all of the flaming torches, axes, and bowling balls in the air and all eyes on HE, who fakes juggling them while lighting the fuse on the sticks of dynamite he himself sticks in the world's mouth with a canister of nitro glycerin while he rides a unicycle with no brakes and a bent wheel.

No one can move because no one can guess where everything else in their world is going to move next. He's got everyone coming and going with a smirk and a scowl, dead turtle doves secreted in his waistcoat.

It's mere entertainment for him.

He likes fucking with, jagging off, everyone.

He's like this guy, always the first at the scene of the mayhem, setting the fires and rigging the exlposions and then reneging on the insurance payment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gucpp2X5lwo

That his comely lady assistant actually does get sawed in half when the the halves of the box are separated is beside the point.

He's the most dangerous individual world in the world.

This ends with him dead, or us, or the entire country.

It's up to his admirers whether they follow him into savage Hell.

What America sounds like when it reaches peak greatness:

https://www.balloon-juice.com/2019/06/22/open-thread-whatever-makes-it-better/

Except for Ben Franklin, I don't think any of the other Founders had the wits to foresee this particular apex of what they wrought.

Lotta stuff on climate change:

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/6/22/1788032/-Spotlight-on-green-news-amp-views-Permafrost-melting-sooner-than-thought-gray-whale-toll

We mustn't do anything.

Rest easy in the fact that if the worst happens, conservatives and republicans the world over will die off like the dodo bird.

"paper tiger"

It's so suspenseful waiting for the explosions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyepdtx_UI4

Wait, does this thing work?

For ongoing reasons of health (mine and my wife's) I have not participated much in, or even followed, Obsidian Wings lately. My loss.

I've just skimmed through this thread, and have nothing germane to add except perhaps to correct the attribution of "Anything worth doing is worth doing badly" to George Will.

I don't know when GW is supposed to have said this, but the phrase was quoted in a review in The Times London in 1965, and attributed there to Gustav Holst, so I suspect it predates Will by some time.

Oh yes - the review was of a production (of Offenbach's La Perichole in which I was in the chorus. Which is why I remember it.

Our loss, too, dr n.
I hope circumstances improve, and allow you to visit more frequently.

Seconded, dr ngo.

Can someone explain the 7-2 vote in Flowers v Mississippi?

Thomas makes quite a good case that the prosecutor had legally acceptable reasons for his peremptory challenges. The rest of the Federalist Society Justices could have gone along with that without its being another plainly wrong ruling. But they didn't.

Of course I or you would rule that the prosecutor in this case has amply demonstrated his intention to make any trial as unfair as possible, and not concern ourselves much with how procedurally he managed to arrive at a nearly all-white jury. But we are not the ones who got Dunn v Ray wrong.

Another question: the part of Thomas's dissent which Gorsuch didn't join was his rant against the whole principle of Batson. He's got history for that. His argument is based on the bizarre claim that Batson is intended to protect the rights of jurors, rather than the Supreme Court's stated intention that prosecutors should not be able to use peremptory challenges in order to empanel an all-white jury. He makes that ridiculous claim that by reversing Batson he "would return the Court’s focus to the fairness of trials for the defendant whose liberty is at stake". Why is Thomas so wilfully obtuse about this?

Thomas makes quite a good case that the prosecutor had legally acceptable reasons for his peremptory challenges.

Can you clarify that ?
(Not saying it’s untrue - just seems odd.)

Here's the opinion and dissent.

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