We Are Here to Witness

Joyce Fienberg, 75, of Oakland

Richard Gottfried, 65, of Ross Township

Rose Mallinger, 97, of Squirrel Hill

Jerry Rabinowitz, 66, of Edgewood

Cecil Rosenthal, 59, of Squirrel Hill

David Rosenthal, 54, of Squirrel Hill (Cecil and David Rosenthal are brothers)

Bernice Simon, 84, of Wilkinsburg

Sylvan Simon, 87, of Wilkinsburg​​​​​​​ (Bernice and Sylvan are husband and wife)

Daniel Stein, 71, of Squirrel Hill

Melvin Wax, 88, of Squirrel Hill

Irving Younger, 69, of Mt. Washington

*****

Added later, and thanks to sapient for providing the details:

Maurice Stallard, 69

Vickie Lee Jones, 67

who died in the Kroger shooting.

Comments

[Countme-a-Demon]

Rose Mallinger was a Holocaust survivor.

There are those who would differ with her claim.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/26/hes-so-openly-racist-why-does-iowa-keep-electing-steve-king-to-congress

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/republican-holocaust-deniers-697379/

Starting tomorrow, there will those who deny she was murdered by the Jew-hating conservative who killed her, or that she was murdered at all.

They will state, among other things, that a false-flag Jewish man from Hungary murdered Rose Mallinger and her ten fellows at the synagogue.

When others who criticize the enablers of this hate crime or so tiresomely bring up the issue of gun control, a ghoul will tell US to practice ...

Peace, Live, and Harmony.

This is my fifth draft of this comment. In honor of Rose and the other dead and wounded, I left out colorful language and gunfire.

[Countme-a-Demon]

That would be "Love", among other editing screw-ups.

[Countme-a-Demon]

Some background on the Squirrel Hill neighborhood via Hullabaloo:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/27/us/squirrel-hill-neighborhoods-jewish-households-trnd/index.html

It matters not, but Mister Rogers also lived for a time about half a mile from the house in which I grew up in a suburb just north of the city.

When I was 20 years old, he gave me a lift while I was hitchhiking.

He was exactly as he was on his kids show, right down to the sweater.

[Countme-a-Demon]

Some background on the Squirrel Hill neighborhood via Hullabaloo:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/27/us/squirrel-hill-neighborhoods-jewish-households-trnd/index.html

It matters not, but Mister Rogers also lived for a time about half a mile from the house in which I grew up in a suburb just north of the city.

When I was 20 years old, he gave me a lift while I was hitchhiking.

He was exactly as he was on his kids show, right down to the sweater.

[russell]

thank you for posting this, people deserve to be remembered.

[Countme-a-Demon]

https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/10/soros-occupied-state-department

Tomorrow, the Jewish Deep State will be indicted by Christian Republicans for this yet further holocaust in Squirrel Hill.

[russell]

Even better than remembered would be to not be murdered at a bris. Or anywhere.

America dances with the devil, yet again.

[Countme-a-Demon]

Hey, it was a bad hair for America is all it was:

https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2018/10/more-leadership.html

[Countme-a-Demon]

Hey, it was a bad hair for America is all it was:

https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2018/10/more-leadership.html

[Countme-a-Demon]

America, the longest running and exceptional comb over in human history.

[Countme-a-Demon]

So, double posting without lifting a finger.

[Countme-a-Demon]

Important question from Eschaton:

"What bad things are Both Sides doing today?"

[liberal japonicus]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/10/28/pittsburgh-shooting-victims-mostly-were-elderly-worshippers/1791727002/

[wj]

Those who engage in these shooting sprees are, among other things, bullies. They could probably find plenty of members of whatever group they are worked up about in the nearest police station or military base. But somehow, they never go there. (Even the ones bent on "suicide by cop" go for the easy targets.) And shooting the elderly, whether in a synagogue or the local strip mall, further reduces the chances of anyone fighting back.

Note that this is NOT an endorsement of the "we need more guns to stop this" nonsense. Just a comment on the scum involved.

[russell]

dancing with the devil

[Countme-a-Demon]

Thanks for that link, lj.

I've driven past that synagogue probably 50 times since I was kid.

That general area of Pittsburgh ... Squirrel Hill and contiguous Oakland and Shadyside ... are home to great universities, some of the world's best hospitals, and many of the great Pittsburgh museums and other cultural landmarks.

The elites congregate there.

Many of the main thoroughfares remain cobblestoned.

Where there are elites in America is where armed conservative gunman (codenamed "the mentally ill") prowl in these days of right-wing rhetorical puke.

When I was kid, my Mom drove me (the cobblestoned streets made me car sick) every two weeks for years to my Jewish ophthalmologist, the wonderfully kind doctor who saved my left eye after a freak accident involving a baseball and way too often, as I far as I was concerned, to my two Jewish orthodonists, who straightened my teeth without a lot of cooperation from me.

My sister's Jewish diabetes doctor, who cared for her during most of her misery-shortened life was resident at one of the hospitals in the area.

Our family's Jewish attorney and my mother's estate attorney had offices in that part of town at one time. Both were raised in Squirrel Hill and the extended families still reside there.

My four siblings', one and all, lives were enriched, as was mine via employment, legal (much of it free) and medical assistance, and genuine friendship by these good people.

Some of their best friends were Presbyterians ... my family.

[Countme-a-Demon]

"Note that this is NOT an endorsement of the "we need more guns to stop this" nonsense. Just a comment on the scum involved.:

Of course. Taken as such.

But a finer point: Four cops, two of them armed and armored SWAT team, basically trained killers, were injured by the gunman.

And even they failed to kill the gunman.

If Ted Nugent wants to die on the hill of opposition to further gun control, I'd be happy to make that hill his fucking grave.

[Countme-a-Demon]

And I don't how many SWAT team and other law enforcement it took to finally subdue this guy.

At least a platoon, if we're talking military squads, upwards of 60 individuals.

I suppose a ten-year old could have charged the guy and made quick work of him, don't ya think, President Fuckwad?

[sapient]

We should be adding to that list 69-year-old Maurice Stallard, and 67-year-old Vickie Lee Jones, who died in the Kroger shooting. They were killed because they were black, and would have killed a lot more people if he'd been able to get into the nearby church.

[sapient]

Sorry for the broken grammar. You all know what I was saying, I hope.

[JanieM]

Thanks, sapient. I added those names to the OP.

[sapient]

Thanks, JanieM.

[Nigel]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/pittsburgh-hias/574198/
The worst of humanity is cruelty to the weak, and the other. The best is compassion for just those groups. This theme runs through all of the world’s faiths — the Torah and the Talmud, the Bible, the Koran, their Asian counterparts, and many others all emphasize the obligation of kindness to the stranger. In practice, America has fallen grossly short of that ideal. But in concept, an openhearted inclusiveness is the idea of America...

[Countme-a-Demon]

"an openhearted inclusiveness is the idea of America..."

Unfortunately, the thick and the ordinary now rule.

A well-known Brit, one head in the four-headed love monster, said that.

[Countme-a-Demon]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/gabcom-founder-defiant-after-pittsburgh-synagogue-slayings-2018-10-28?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts

When bullets in flight become First Amendment protected speech, as I fully expect a packed conservative Supreme Court to rule in a few years, as well as a Second Amendment right, Torba will be made to shut his fucking republican mouth.

[Tony P.]

"Witness" is quite literally the very least we can do.

The next-least thing we can do is speak out. But I'm at a loss to know who to speak out to, in a way that makes any difference.

Voting is something, I suppose. Contributing money and volunteering time to Democratic election campaigns begins to approach non-impotence, in some races.

But I fear we need to do more, at this point. We're too old (most of us) and too lazy and cowardly (speaking only for myself) to man the barricades. We're too decent to build bombs or shoot people. And we're too goddam polite to tell off friends and relatives who, given the chance, would enthusiastically serve as human props in the standard mob that forms the backdrop at every He, Trump rally.

I don't know how to make America decent again. Maybe The Kidz will save us, or at least themselves.

BTW: in the spirit of free inquiry in the face of political correctness, I need to ask:

1) If "all of the world's faiths ... emphasize the obligation of kindness to the stranger", what else do they each emphasize? To differentiate themselves from the other "faiths", I mean. And why is "faith" necessary in order for decent human beings to be kind to strangers?

2) Since when, and how, did "an openhearted inclusiveness" become "the idea of America"? Assume, for purposes of this question, that we're talking about the actual, historical, USA and not some Frank Capra movie.

--TP

[Countme-a-Demon]

https://ok-cleek.com/blogs/?p=28563

[Nigel]

And why is "faith" necessary in order for decent human beings to be kind to strangers?

It's not, of course.
But the major religions are belief systems which have persisted for many centuries, so the things which they have in common - which do not include belief in a deity - are worthy of consideration.

Since when, and how, did "an openhearted inclusiveness" become "the idea of America"?

Well the preamble to your Declaration of Independence pretty well implies as much.

[Countme-a-Demon]

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/a-country-awash-in-foxs-dark-toxins

[Countme-a-Demon]

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/we-were-made-for-civil-war/

[Countme-a-Demon]

Let us never forget the diabolical grifting deeds of this individual and his ratfucking redstate lieutenants over the years.

That he is now afforded a seat on Meet The Press has got to be a national hallucination.

Change the title of that program to Meet The Fucking Asshole Enemy

https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/2018/10/28/chuck-todd-and-meet-press-sanitize-erick-ericksons-garbage/221889

As the Civil War ripens, he is confederate territory that needs to be shermaned in the opening fusillades.

[Countme-a-Demon]

In the interest of coolheadedness, some decent words from a reasonable guy:

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/10/make-democrats-great-again-without-pandering-to-trumps-angry-base/

If course, it's still too early to know whether or not there is a mpian pipe bomb headed Drum's way.

Snail mail and all.

[Countme-a-Demon]

https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2018/10/soros-occupied-state-department.html

[Countme-a-Demon]

The right wing hate movement may colonize and infest interplanetary space next if it is not halted immediately.

https://theintercept.com/2018/10/28/jair-bolsonaro-elected-president-brazil/

Bolsonaro has promised to make physical hate of the Other a tax-deductible expense in Brazil, causing a light bulb, a dim incandescent one, to flicker in the fascist darkness of mp's reptilian brain stem.

"Hitler was a great strategist"

Also a dessert topping.

I have one of mp's founding texts, the Fuhrer's "My New Order", which he has been known to keep close by on his nightstand for when there is nothing doing on FOX, on my bookshelf.

Dust won't even land on it.

[Countme-a-Demon]

It's Monday 9:18am and I've already reached my character limit for the week.

Someone else talk.

[Countme-a-Demon]

One more:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-tone-deaf-israeli-reactions-to-the-pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting?via=newsletter&source=DDMorning

Liberal, moderate, and secular Israelis must overthrow the current right wing Likud government.

[Countme-a-Demon]

Kinda makes ya think about the term "soup kitchens".

Also, what the letters spell in their tomato alphabet soup selection:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/campbell-soup-executive-steps-down-after-false-tweets-stating-george-soros-planned-migrant-caravans-2018-10-29?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts

[wj]

https://malinowskifornj.com/press/2018/10/27/malinowski-statement-on-pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting

[wj]

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/413545-steelers-hold-moment-of-silence-for-shooting-victims

I wonder how long before this moment of silence gets equated to kneeling during the national anthem.

[russell]

Someone else talk.

what is there to say?

[JanieM]

More about the Pittsburgh victims.

And Maurice Stallard.

And Vickie Lee Jones.

[I thought I posted this earlier but I don't see it, so here it is again.]

[Tony P.]

Nigel: But the major religions are belief systems which have persisted for many centuries, so the things which they have in common - which do not include belief in a deity - are worthy of consideration.

One consideration is this: despite their persistence, or maybe because of it, the major religions have not noticeably reduced hatred of "other" major religions -- not among their most devoted followers, anyhow. What makes one major religion The Other to a different major religion is not their mutual injunction to be kind to strangers, which is a "belief" that any atheist can endorse.

I'm not inclined to launch a crusade (if you'll pardon the expression) against "religion" at a time like this. For one thing, it would only embolden the Broderists whose only credo is that there's always blame on "all sides". I merely suggest that the Pope is not about to convert to Judaism, or the Ayatollah to Hinduism, because "Hey, we all believe in kindness to strangers, amirite?"

Nigel: Well the preamble to your Declaration of Independence pretty well implies as much.

The Declaration has no preamble. The preamble to the Constitution, in its entirety, says:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I suppose a hopeful interpretation of those words could amount to the same thing as "in concept, an openhearted inclusiveness is the idea of America", but you'll have to ask an Originalist who "We the People" was meant to include -- or exclude.

--TP

[cleek]

clearly that means that the US is a Christian nation, that its doors should close for good in 2018 and TrumpRoolzSuckItLibz!

[Countme-a-Demon]

Sessions laying the Biblical versifying on thick during numerous occasions. Roman centurions do not remove him:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sessions+interrupted+by+christian+verse

This morning while out and about, I spotted a bumper sticker: "Reject Religion, Embrace Christ"

Then Sessions spoke again:

Two Christians "accost" him with Biblical verses. Both are removed by centurions. See video near bottom of post:

https://www.balloon-juice.com/2018/10/29/heroes/

There is lowing, as if by bovine livestock objecting to the interjection of Christ's words during a speech on religious liberty.

Session has straw thrown down on the floor of the conference room for those conservatives to satisfy their cuds.

Christ himself rises later near the back of the room later in the speech and throws a sandal which nearly misses Sessions head.

Centurions remove Christ and escort him to Golgotha for the measuring of his cross.

Tommorrow, mp will fire Sessions, accusing him of, among many crimes, being a thief. mp orders Sessions crucified by the vermin republican press to the right hand of Christ.

[Tony P.]

An open-hearted inclusiveness that tolerates the likes of Jeff Sessions is probably not America's worst idea. But it's close.

Still, we must remember that the Americans heard booing in that Jeff Sessions video (and not booing Sessions AFAICT) are part of We The People, too. We must remember it because it would be hard to deduce it from first principles.

--TP

[Tony P.]

Holy crap! I had not realized that Sessions was speechifying to the Boston Lawyers Chapter of The Federalist Society in that clip. God Save the Commonwealth.

--TP

[Countme-a-Demon]

I stated up thread that Rose Mallinger at the synagogue. the oldest of the murdered, was a refugee and survivor of Hitler's camps.

That apparently was inaccurate reporting, though corrected later which I repeated.

She was born in America, though she didn't live long enough to have her papers checked by the mp administration.

I apologize.

Like John Lennon and many others, her family originated in a foreign land, and her life was stolen from her by the inchoate, non-uniformed, unorganized fascism of individual gun violence initiative peculiar to America and pointed to by some as one price we pay our freedoms.

I apologize for that too.

[byomtov]

May I say that these people are my cousins?

Ashkenazi Jews are all descended from a very small number of individuals, possibly as few as 3-400, as recently as 800 years ago.

Just reading the names makes me sad. I have known many people with these names - Rabinowitz, Rosenthal, Simon. They are part of not just my community, but of every Jewish community.

I would like to say that this is an inconceivable tragedy. But it is not, of course, inconceivable. Historically, it is all too common. And now, thanks to Donald Trump, it has happened here, in the USA, historically the second country in the modern era, after, I think, Denmark, where Jews enjoy full political, religious, and economic rights.

We are in a dark age, not just, or even primarily, for Jews, but for all "unpopular" minorities.

[sapient]

We are in a dark age, not just, or even primarily, for Jews, but for all "unpopular" minorities.

For us all. Anyone who wants to live in a diverse society, anyone who is proud of welcoming refugees, anyone who believes in loving our neighbor. We are all in a dark age, and we have to fight hard to end it.

[wj]

Anyone who wants to live in a diverse society

With the caveat that "diverse" doesn't just mean multiple races or major religions. The xenophobic mindset can, and has, focused on far small differences than that. See, for example, the times that it hit Germans or Irish immigrants. Or Catholics. The only way those folks are satisfied is with identity -- as in a society which extends no further than their cousins. (Inbreeding required.)

[Countme-a-Demon]

byomtov:

"Historically, it is all too common."

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/11/12/reigns-of-terror-in-america