Interstellar -- Weekend Open Thread

by wj

However much our political concerns dominate our focus, it is well to remember that the universe is bigger than our day to day concerns.  So we shouldn't miss this one:

For the first time ever, an asteroid or comet from another star has been caught hurtling through our solar system, astronomers announced late Thursday. Provisionally designated A/2017 U1, the object appears to be less than a half-kilometer in diameter and is traveling at just over 40 kilometers per second—faster than humanity’s speediest outbound space probes. [emphasis added]

I was particularly taken by this.

A/2017 U1 was first discovered on Oct. 19 by Rob Weryk, a postdoctoral researcher at the University of Hawaii. He found it—a faint, pale dot streaking across the sky—while reviewing images from the university’s Pan-STARRS telescope, which searches for near-Earth objects (NEOs) from the mountain Haleakala. “When I first saw the object in question, I immediately thought it was an NEO that had not been seen before, being quite close to the Earth,” Weryk says. “But then I started to look for additional detections from other nights—and when I found it [in images from] the night before, the data didn’t make sense.”

At first look, he thought it was a near-Earth object???  It got that close, before anybody noticed.

It's going to be really fascinating to see how much we can learn about this thing before it recedes out of sight.  Even if it's too much to hope that the measurements trying to determine its dimensions and make-up will give back numbers that say "artificial construct".

Comments

[wj]

Otherwise this morning (yes, it is still morning in California), I amused myself with the Pew Political Typology quiz. You all might be interested in trying it.

The results put me in mind of Robert Burn's words:

O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!

It seems I qualify (barely) as a "New Era Republican". But probably only because I picked "Republican" on the final question. According to Pew's numbers, I'm not only not the moderate conservative I think I am, I'm way further left than even most moderates. "As others see us...." Well, I suppose that accounts for some of the feedback that various folks here have offered.

I'm tempted to try again, clicking "Independent", just to see what happens. Maybe when I'm not trying to get packed and out the door.

The other fun exercise was trying their party quiz, which also offers comparisons by various demographics (not just by party). I seem to be far closer to the opinions of 18-24 year olds than those of my actual 65+ demographic. Second childhood...?

[cleek]

Solid Liberal, and yet a Moderate Democrat.

i am also an 18-24 year old black protestant woman.

it will be an awkward conversation when i tell my wife. maybe i should just keep it a secret.

[Michael Cain]

The Catalonian parliament declared independence, and the Spanish Senate voted to govern Catalonia directly from Madrid. I take a professional interest in secession attempts in developed countries since I'm planning my own.

[Priest]

A little math shows "Interstellar" heading towards Pegasus at .015% of the speed of light. If it's going in the direction of Biham, one of the closer stars in the constellation, it will pass by in "only" about 613,333 years and 4 months.

[Pollo de muerte]

I came out more liberal than I think that I am on the quiz ... I'm not sure what an Opportunity Democrat is, but I was pegged pretty far to the left on the bell curve.

[russell]

Solid liberal. Now there is a shocker.

I would be remiss if I failed to point out that the average (R) of 40 years ago would probably end up left of center in that poll.

The Catalonian parliament declared independence, and the Spanish Senate voted to govern Catalonia directly from Madrid.

Uh oh.

It got that close, before anybody noticed.

A million years from now, the cockroaches will be driving around in tiny cars that run on gasoline refined from our gooey remains.

Maybe less than a million.

[Priest]

Left edge of the chart for me, which I guess shows how narrow "acceptable" opinions are. No questions to tease out differences between Liberals and Leftists (or choose your preferred term), for instance nationalizing industries pro or con, government run health system vs. government subsidies for health care, etc.

[Marty]

Core Conservative

[novakant]

OK, open thread, so here goes:

Why is everybody talking about how Trump insulted the soldier's widow, but nobody asking what on earth the US is doing in Niger in the first place?

Why is everybody talking about Weinstein while everybody is ignoring the elephant in the room that the current POTUS himself has engaged in very similar behaviour over decades?

I just watched Kore-eda's (spelling? lj?) latest film "After the Storm" and can recommend it to everyone (just like "Still Walking") - he's a true humanist.

[Girl from the North Country]

Solid liberal.

Why is everybody talking about Weinstein while everybody is ignoring the elephant in the room that the current POTUS himself has engaged in very similar behaviour over decades?

Who are these everybodies to whom you refer? Apart from Fox News and the GOP, it seems to me that everybody is pointing out that Trump is pretty directly comparable, if not (probably) in the actual numbers of women affected.

[wonkie]

Trump is going to "trim" Grand Stairczse Escalente National Monument.

There's a canyon there with petroglyphs, haunting images that must have had religious meaning long ago

I can't even writ about this I am so upset. I hate Trump and I hate every Republican elected offical and I ma having trouble not hating every republican voter

[Tony P.]

I wonder how Core Conservative Marty answered this question:

Hard work and determination are no guarantee of success for most people

which seems to me to require careful parsing.

Solid Liberals like me want to know.
--TP

[Marty]

I answered most of them thinking there is a third answer, but if I only have these two to choose from it's this. That one certainly both answers were true.

[Bobbyp]

Solid liberal. No big surprise! No choices for "really? Are you kidding me? Not applicable, responses artificially delimited, did cizzilla write this? And worst of all, no option to smash the system of private property."

[hairshirthedonist]

What bobbyp said.

[Snarki, child of Loki]

"And worst of all, no option to smash the system of private property."

You're supposed to hack'n'crash their website, clearly. Clearly you need to work harder to stand up to THE MAN

[Snarki, child of Loki]

On the OT, the guy that first sighted the comet probably thought it would be a NEO because of how fast it was moving across the sky, because the vast majority of objects that show that kind of motion are nearby.

Most comets only show less than a degree of motion per day; there are exceptions; IIRC Comet Hyakutake (sp?) in 1987 you could see it moving, but it did pass quite close to Earth.

[Fair Economist]

It wasn't that near a NEO; the closest approach was 25 million kilometers. That's quite a hike.

I remember being able to see Hyakutake move with my naked eye. That was something. Quite a comet.

[Tony P.]

Marty,

I'm trying to parse your response into an actual answer to my question, but having a hard time of it.

FWIW, the particular question in question (if you'll pardon the expression) is NOT one of those "you gots to be kidding" ones -- if you read it literally, I mean. "X is no guarantee of Y" seems a dead certainty to me for practically any value of X or Y.

What I specifically wondered is whether one could earn the Core Conservative label despite clicking on "Hard work and determination are no guarantee of success for most people".

--TP

[Marty]

To, I thought it was, I think both of these statements are true and not particularly conflicting.

Most people who want to get ahead can make it if they're willing to work hard

Hard work and determination are no guarantee of success for most people

[novakant]

GftNC, that wasn't my impression, but I grant my phrasing was a bit hyperbolic. Nevertheless, the fact remains that Weinstein was finished almost immediately after the accusations gained momentum, while Trump got elected president and seems to face no consequences at all - at least so far.

[Nigel]

A couple of things, perhaps ?
One is the sheer number of women who have come forward in the Weinstein case; the other is that the power disparity in Trump's case seems to be so much greater.

It's a mark of just how fncked up things are that only the most overwhelming evidence makes a difference - and don't forget there were voices doubting the Weinstein allegations at the beginning, and others saying is this really news....

Even now, the treatment of the victims is deeply disturbing, as described towards the end of New Yorker piece (as with all the Weinstein stuff, trigger warnings apply):
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/weighing-the-costs-of-speaking-out-about-harvey-weinstein

[Ugh]

Why is everybody talking about how Trump insulted the soldier's widow, but nobody asking what on earth the US is doing in Niger in the first place?

Was wondering this myself. Apparently we're going to chase terrorists to, literally, the ends of the earth. ISIS-Antarctica? Watch out!

[liberal japonicus]

I just watched Kore-eda's (spelling? lj?)

Yes, I think that's how he styles it. The traditional way to mark that kind of pronunciation would be Kore'eda, or you'll read the two e's as a long vowel.

That marking is a lot more common with a nasal final, because a word like 'credit' would be written tan'i, or else it would be pronounce with the /n/ as the onset of the second sylable.

[Countme-a-Demon]

Congress didn't know there were 1000 American troops in Niger as conservative principles like transparency spread throughout our government like mold through drywall in Houston.

I'll take luck over hard and determination any day, but then I'm determined never to work hard again.

[Countme-a-Demon]

Weinstein belongs in jail. Probably supermax security in Florence, Colorado.

Renaldo Farina, the Italian right wing journalist who doled out some of the punishment to the actress Annabella Sciorra in Nigel's New Yorker link:

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renato_Farina&prev=search">https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renato_Farina&prev=search">https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renato_Farina&prev=search

He's a fake news expert, as much of right wing "journalism" is around the world.

I've been thinking about the ladies at FOX News, and while sexual assault and harassment are abuse of power and entitlement, of course, regardless of political persuasion (think Ted Kennedy and many other powerful Democrats and their flagrant abuse of women, even on Capitol elevators, and not leaving aside the fact women have been sexually abused, and blamed for bringing it on since Eden), it occurs to me that the entire talent search and job interview process for females at FOX was/is an elaborate sexual stalking scheme by type (leggy ... from Ailes' point of view slouched down in his chair during the twirl ...., mostly blonde women) by powerful, ugly men, and had little to do with professional qualifications, beyond a willingness of the victims to want massive tax cuts and to hang that liberal c*nt/b*tch**, Hillary Clinton and put Obama in chains.

**Ailes/O'Reilly's female victims hosted conservative male "personalities" for years who sexually harassed liberal (and RINO women) in power from their perches as spokespeople for the "conservative movement" and said little or nothing about the verbal abuse heaped on Clinton by rump's rapist supporters.

https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/2016/06/16/it-s-not-just-trump-fans-his-media-supporters-also-call-clinton-bitch/210998

One wonders about Sean Hannity, Neil Cavuto, Steve Doocy, Greg Gutfeld (a comedian who never got a laugh) and scores of other male personalities at FOX who emerged from barely competent prior careers to become star talking heads.

Hard work and determination? Or casting couch?

That Chris Wallace, as far as I can tell a professional journalist, stays at FOX, is very disappointing.

[Countme-a-Demon]

'Congress didn't know there were 1000 American troops in Niger"

Which is kind of unbelievable since they've been there in one capacity or another since 2001:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/10/27/the-real-reason-u-s-troops-are-in-niger/

What exactly does Congress do?

[formerly known as cleek]

What exactly does Congress do?

it campaigns for re-election

[bob mcmanus]

novakant: but nobody asking what on earth the US is doing in Niger in the first place?

I've read at least ten articles about Niger and Empire over at Counterpunch. Some at Jacobin Here is the Most Recent. The better question is why aren't Democrats and liberals talking about Empire. Another time, maybe.

I don't know, not giving Trump any credit, but if there was actionable harassment, surely women would have come forward already, other than those that have? I honestly don't imagine him very sexually active or aggressive. Too insecure or narcissistic or something. That he has never taken a drink or smoked tells me something. Too busy preening.

Weinstein probably belongs in jail, but we are in some kind of social party or feeding frenzy when the 90 yr old Parkinson's sufferer in a wheelchair gets outed for patting women's butts. I'm sure Bush's victims were devastated with lives ruined.

Kore-eda is good, though I haven't watched much of his recent stuff. Humanist is an understatement, his earliest work was tv documentaries about the sick and subaltern. There's a classic work about the first openly gay aids victim. Recently I think he has gone a little too far toward family fare for my tastes, even farther than Ozu.

[Countme-a-Demon]

Braden Matejka*

*I am temporarily interrupting the list of the murdered in Las Vegas to include a survivor's name. Happily, he is not dead, but he is being stalked by rump republican NRA conservative supporters/voters/assassins for the crime of surviving and speaking about it and they are dispatched for that mission imbelicec by a murderous piece of shit, Alex Jones, who sports a First Amendment license to destroy America via the Second Amendment. ... so it's all OK.

Because the Constitution say's it's OK.

All of the rumpian filth who are going after Matejka, including Jones, should be named co-conspirators with Stephen Craig Paddock in the Las Vegas murders.

They can be sentenced to conjugal visits with Harvey Weinstein at the Supermax, when they aren't cleaning out pit latrines in National Parks with their tongues.

https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2017/10/yes-these-people-are-utterly-deplorable.html

I don't want to allow conservatives to be the sole source ruiners and killers of America.

Why should have all the fun?

I want to help.

[Michael Cain]

I enjoy a good rant as much as anyone, Count, but you're going to work yourself into a stroke or heart attack here.

[bob mcmanus]

I fully expect to see what I call "the move," from a specific case to the general as in:

Was the butt patting by the 90 yr old in the wheelchair important news?

to

You don't care about harassment, abuse and rape at all, do you Bob?

There was a comment over at LGM that I can't find to the effect that Japan has workplace harassment under control, mostly for effficiency reasons, which I don't necessarily believe. But I have noticed some interesting stuff, that the kids are taught very early to sweat and call-out the smallest stuff, but in a more joking and lighthearted manner, without malice or with pretend outrage.

"Cute" is the operative word for a reason, it is opposed to pretty or beautiful. "It suits you" is said rather than "you look good in that dress" "Too close" is fairly common, but without hostility.

There is also the interesting pattern of actresses forming teams with important directors, sometimes also romantic, sometimes not. Hara-Ozu, Takamine-Naruse, Wakao-Masumura, Kikuyo Tanaka-Mizoguchi. Also some actors, Nakadai and Kobayashi. I have wondered if it was for a powerful protector.

[Countme-a-Demon]

I also misspelled my made up word "imbecilec", which could cause me a burst aneurysm, not that I have one.

I cardio train for these rants.

[novakant]

Thanks, lj. I'll check out the docs, Bob.

[Tony P.]

Marty,

I still don't know how you answered that particular question on that particular Pew survey. After two go-rounds, this proves either: I can't read; or, you can't write. Those are "not particularly conflicting" alternatives, I grant you.

It's a trivial point in the grand scheme of things but, like the depth to which the parsley had sunk into the butter on the day of the murder, it may be a clue to a larger mystery.

--TP

[Girl from the North Country]

the other is that the power disparity in Trump's case seems to be so much greater.

I've only just caught up with recent comments, but if I have understood this correctly, in my opinion this is the exact opposite of the truth. I believe this because, before Trump became president (which is when most if not all of the allegations date from) he was just a gross, rich guy. OK his wealth constituted a power disparity in the case of young, attractive women who were pitching for decorating or other jobs, or in other than purely social contact with him, but there was no reason to think that if they resisted him their careers would be ruined. In the case of Weinstein, by contrast, the young women were all seeking to make their way in an industry which he dominated, and in which he held, to a large extent, the power of career life or death. In my understanding of power disparity, Weinstein's case is considerably worse. On the other hand, however, in terms of repulsiveness, at least Weinstein is intelligent, talented and can be charming, so it is not impossible to imagine him having consensual relationships in the absence of any coercive element, whereas in Trump's case, for many years now his wealth has seemed like his only possible advantage to any woman not actually dead, or dead between the ears.

[Countme-a-Demon]

I don't know about strokes or heart attacks, but why lightning doesn't strike Ben Stein is a mystery.

Maybe he has a brain tumor in the cerebrum.

https://www.mediamatters.org/video/2017/10/27/ben-stein-nixon-did-basically-nothing-wrong-during-watergate/218370

[formerly known as cleek]

if there was actionable harassment, surely women would have come forward already, other than those that have?

?

do those who have come forward not count ?

Trump is currently fighting a lawsuit for sexual harassment.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/yw38xk/the-forgotten-sexual-assault-allegation-that-could-bring-down-trump

[Nigel]

.... we are in some kind of social party or feeding frenzy when the 90 yr old Parkinson's sufferer in a wheelchair gets outed for patting women's butts...

Are we ?
Or is it rather that it's unacceptable that this (repeated) behaviour be passed off as some fairly innocent foible - for which his entourage have been knowing enablers - and the targets expected to keep quiet ?

[Nigel]

GFNC, I have no reason to vehemently press the point you argue against, but it does seem possible to me that the Weinstein victims are perhaps in a position where they are more likely to be listened to than Trump's ?

[Girl from the North Country]

What cleek and Nigel said of course.

[Girl from the North Country]

Nigel @ 01.49: you are right in this specific sense, when they finally are confident enough to break their silence, they are famous so they have a voice. But the decades-long hesitation, when they thought he could end their careers, seemed a very graphic and particular representation of unequal power relations.

[bob mcmanus]

Are we ?
Or is it rather that it's unacceptable that this (repeated) behaviour be passed off as some fairly innocent foible

Are you talking about Bush or Weinstein?

Was it acceptable 5 years ago? Why all at once?
It might have been very hard ten years ago for McGowan and Kirshner, but it looks very very easy to come down on Weinstein right now.

Might have been. Marilyn Monroe famously once said: "Finally, no more blowjobs." My guess is that the casting couch (there is a reason we have that phrase) has always been totally ubiquitous, and one hundred more men could get outed tomorrow by a thousand actresses. But won't be.

Like the pointlessly cute pink pussyhat march or Russophobia, there is a social aspect, a need to go along with the group and otherwise hesitate, that bothers me here.

[formerly known as cleek]

Why all at once?

Trump.

many people, women especially, don't like that he not only got away with it, but was pretty much rewarded for his behavior (by the morally-bankrupt Republican base). now, they're fighting back.

there is a social aspect, a need to go along with the group and otherwise hesitate, that bothers me here.

you are bothered by people standing up against sexual harassment ?

[bob mcmanus]

There is also, I suspect, a lot of group pressure in the "Hmmm, you got that nice part in the Weinstein movie and I didn't. Why aren't you making a complaint now." An actress almost has to claim Weinstein tried and failed.

But of course Weinstein repeated behavior shows to me that he was expecting success because he had more than a few.

I doubt we will hear those voices.

[formerly known as cleek]

speaking of moral bankruptcy.

[Snarki, child of Loki]

Hey ALL those sexual abusers should be:

punched in the throat,
slammed to the ground,
have their nuts sliced off

bipartisan, it is.

And as for why people haven't been struck by lightning? Gotta take that up with Thor. Maybe you've been asking the wrong guy.

[Girl from the North Country]

cleek, I don't think it is entirely because of Trump, although you're right that women are infuriated by his seeming impunity, particularly after he convicted himself out of his own mouth (pretty rare in the case of abusers, after all).

I think the reason the floodgates have opened and the flood is gaining momentum (and finding new targets) is that, as the Weinstein revelations started and gained more and more force (because after all, we seem to be dealing with, among other accusations, some allegedly violent rapes), women who were used to just shutting up and taking it while creepy old men felt them up, felt brave enough, because of the times (finally) to object and call it what it is. They are saying "This is not OK", and hoping that when the current furore dies down, the acceptability boundaries will have permanently moved.

[formerly known as cleek]

let's not forget before Trump there was Cosby, Ailes and O'Reilly (among others).

but Trump's the only one to walk away better off than before.

[Girl from the North Country]

Yes, Cosby, Ailes and O'Reilly were John the Baptists, and primed the pump Then the Trump Impunity (sounds like a movie. Martin Amis, Christopher Hitchens, Salman rushdie et al used to play a parlour game where they re-named famous pieces of literature according to this formula. Best example: Hamlet = The Elsinore Vacillation). This particular progression seems to have formed: what? a tipping point? Critical mass? Something like that, at any rate.

[Countme-a-Demon]

Bob, I'm not sure what you are getting at. You mean, this thing is a passing fad, or is there some sort of dialectic I'm missing?

" .... and hesitate"? Before doing or not doing what?

"but it looks very very easy to come down on Weinstein right now."

Weinstein is thinking the same thing.

As far as Russophobia goes, the interesting question to me is the 90 years of Russophobia displayed by politicians of both parties, but mostly the right-wing which has accused those in the other party of not being russophobic enough for the former's tastes, but now many of the former are hip-deep in Russophilia.

What gives with that?

'Might have been. Marilyn Monroe famously once said: "Finally, no more blowjobs." My guess is that the casting couch (there is a reason we have that phrase) has always been totally ubiquitous, and one hundred more men could get outed tomorrow by a thousand actresses. But won't be.'

I've been meaning to quote her. Also, Nancy Reagan on the same. What does Montgomery Clift have to say on the subject?

Clearly, some American women figured out a way to surmount Benjamin Franklin's male-only American dream of success via hard work and determination, even while talent, competence, hard work and determination weren't quite enough.

https://fee.org/articles/benjamin-franklin-the-man-who-invented-the-american-dream/

"Was it acceptable 5 years ago? Why all at once?"

First, is what acceptable? The blowjobs, or the outings?

But, no, vis-a-vis the casting couch, in the first place.

And, in the second, for the same reason Rosa Parks suddenly decided all at once to move to the front of the bus and not budge.

I have nothing against blowjobs. Hurray for blowjobs. Three cheers for cunnilingus. Whoever invented them, even if it was Robert E. Lee on one of his few better days, should have statues erected (there must be a better word) of themselves in every town square throughout the country.

But a "yes' beforehand, as with all sexual matters, even domination and role-playing, is a pre-requisite and not a substitute for the question "Can you type?, or whatever the job requirements is.

I recently had several conversations with a younger woman .. we are casual acquaintances with no prospect (too much age difference) of anything more than that ... but we talk about this stuff, because we are both fairly plain-spoken types who get to the point.

She confided in me what most men would find two contradictory stories, one, she frequented dating sites, but was completely turned off by men who are all over her physically on the first date, and two, that in her past she has hired a male master, who would fly her to another state and she would submit to restraint and flogging with silk ropes, sometimes painfully, and whatever sexual the heck else was in store.

Women are much more subtle and compartmentalizing about all of this stuff than men are, I've finally surmised after all this time. The word "yes", even in playacting extreme "no" situations" is required by women, while your average lunkhead who thinks "yes' is the default position doesn't get it.

I've thought all along, putting aside the rest of it, that Monica Lewinsky was unfairly maligned for taking matters into her own hands.

She displayed agency in the matter. She said "Yes".

That Bill Clinton should have said no, first to the pizza, and then to the other, shows that he was full of shit, but at least she said yes.

That the job interview question is often construed as "Can you type in the nude?" by women isn't surprising given the past (30,000 years) of male behavior, and I'm not discounting the relatively few examples of female mashers in the workplace.

[Countme-a-Demon]

"Hamlet = The Elsinore Vacillation."

After the Bourne movies.

also, Macbeth, ‘The Dunsinane Reforestation’ and Othello, ‘The Kerchief Implication.’

Someone else referred to the Ludlum franchise as "The Bourne Profitability"

Maybe: King Lear "The Heath Anxiety"

Richard the III "The Equine Reciprocity"

(my kingdom for a horse)

[Countme-a-Demon]

"but Trump's the only one to walk away better off than before."

https://www.google.com/search?q=photo+fo+female+trump+supporter+with+t+shirt+with+a+n+arrow+pointing+at+her+crotch&tbm=isch&source=iu&pf=m&ictx=1&fir=dUo1b6S1PY_YHM%253A%252CrBfxWli9F4UTdM%252C_&usg=__LZ24MTvJKyetQ7AE2CCyWo1KPzc%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjlleqhlZTXAhUK5IMKHaGrB-wQ9QEIMjAE#imgrc=dUo1b6S1PY_YHM:

Nothing like tax cuts and some Obama/Clinton hatred to get in a conservative girl' pants.

[formerly known as cleek]

deplorable

[Girl from the North Country]

I'd forgotten The Dunsinane Reforestation - my absolute favourite!

[CharlesWT]

And as for why people haven't been struck by lightning? Gotta take that up with Thor. Maybe you've been asking the wrong guy.

Apparently, indoor plumbing is an effective talisman against the wielders of lightning bolts.

[bob mcmanus]

What does Montgomery Clift have to say on the subject?

Clift was dead too young for an autobiography?

Keiji Sada was famously told to be careful on the sets of Keisuke Kinoshita

"Although few concrete details have emerged about Kinoshita's personal life, his homosexuality was widely known in the film world. Screenwriter and frequent collaborator Yoshio Shirasaka recalls the "brilliant scene" Kinoshita made with the handsome, well-dressed assistant directors he surrounded himself with."

Hmm, I mentioned above the long time team of Nakadai and Kobayashi (AD to KK). But I have mostly seen the above used as an argument that Ozu was at least not very actively gay.

Tab Hunter and George Nader have probably written autobiographies.

I also remembered the opening minutes of All That Jazz

The quote at LGM said it is Japanese corporate policy to fire people on any accusation. As I said, I don't know if I believe it, but the Japanese are pretty strict about handling social relationships, IOW, don't make enemies at work.

As to what I'm getting at, I am just not crazy about crowd scenes, twitter storms, or group pile-ons.

[liberal japonicus]

The quote at LGM said it is Japanese corporate policy to fire people on any accusation.

Sort of. If the accusation is against someone who doesn't have much juice, yeah, that's going to happen. If it is from lower to higher, it will depend a lot on how connected that person is. A recent story

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/05/30/national/crime-legal/former-tbs-reporter-close-abe-ties-accused-rape/#.WfUYUtMjFgg

It's also significant that it is a rape accusation. Accusations of homosexuality don't seem to have the mileage that they do in the US. In fact, I can't think of any celebrity or politician who has been cast out because of those sorts of things. On the other hand, a number of Japanese women have been crapped on because of intimations of affairs or just of sex.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-21299324
She shaved her head and gave a video apology because she spent the night with her boyfriend.

https://japantoday.com/category/entertainment/becky-in-hot-water-over-rumored-affair

pull quote from that last link
Usually, performers with any hint of scandal are not invited to perform on the show.

That last story is starting to resolve itself
https://japantoday.com/category/entertainment/end-of-a-saga-becky-to-return-to-showbiz-kawatani-divorces-wife-following-scandal

but if you don't want to read the links, basically, a 'talent' (the name given to people appearing on TV shows) hooked up with a Japanese singer who had secretly married someone. She said (and I think it's probably true) she didn't know he was married, but she lost all her commericial gigs and was taken off all the shows she was on. So yeah, I think the LGM poster was pretty close to the way things are.

I'd also add that I'm not too crazy about group pile-ons either, but just because something is a group pile-on, it doesn't mean that the person at the bottom of the pile is innocent.

[Nigel]

Completely OT, but been watching way too much TV recently...

Binge watched all four seasons of Halt and Catch Fire (anyone else enjoy it as much as I did ?), and continuing the 80s nostalgia theme, am also liking a lot the second season of Stranger Things...

[Nigel]

I'd also add that I'm not too crazy about group pile-ons either, but just because something is a group pile-on, it doesn't mean that the person at the bottom of the pile is innocent...

I strongly dislike such pile-ons too, but this really doesn't feel like that to me - it seems more like the bursting of a long pent up dam.

Whether it might mark a long lasting change is an interesting question. The debate is certainly in full flow in the UK (and might see a few parliamentary casualties this week), but equally, there seems to be something of a backlash in Italy.

[Marty]

I was not that impressed with Halt and Catch Fire, the first season had an oddly 2015 feel to the characters in a 1980s setting. So I didn't watch beyond that.

I did watch all of Stranger Things 2 last night. It was an enjoyable follow up To season 1.

[Girl from the North Country]

I strongly dislike such pile-ons too, but this really doesn't feel like that to me - it seems more like the bursting of a long pent up dam.

I absolutely agree, Nigel. Since I don't know a woman who hasn't been on the receiving end of unwanted sexual pressure, to put it at its most benign, at some stage of their life, it seems completely understandable that when the dam bursts for whatever reason, those who have suffered worse than mere pressure (whether that be threats, force or some other kind of coercive behaviour) and have kept silence for various reasons of fear, shame etc, would let it out with great relief. I see what's happening in parliament, and I'm glad: I can only hope that in future any man contemplating such moves will stop to think about the possible consequences.

[Countme-a-Demon]

Stands to reason, if you place all of the women abused and assaulted by the names mentioned in this thread alone into a pile, they will eventually fall over on to the guilty.

It's like a game of Jenga.

[liberal japonicus]

Good point Nigel. Though one of the aspects of this pile-on behavior is is uncontrolled. Weinstein seems like a dam. The elder Bush? Not so sure. Of course, when this gets weaponized, it means that it is deployed to take people out rather than to create a better society.

[bob mcmanus]

Parenthetical for open thread

Watched a little anime after Varda's Happiness and one of the smallest simplest things bugged me again

"My name is X. What's your name?"
"Morioka Moriko des." (desu*, maybe)
"Morioka Moriko-san des, ne."

Subbers went with:

"I'm Morioka Moriko."
"Morioka Moriko-san?"

It feels unnatural and stiff to me to say "It is Bob McManus" instead of just "Bob McManus" but translating and leaving out the "des" seems to miss something so automatic as to be culturally important. But it isn't as if a plain "Morioka Moriko" would be incomprehensible so I'm not quite clear about what is going on. Sentence fragments are impolite?

This formal ritualistic nature of everyday Japanese is one of the reasons I gave up on learning the language. The more I understood the less I liked it. Just kidding, contractions are used, when she learns his name (Sakurai Yuta) she thinks "kawaii namae" translated as "What a cute name." (Okay because of emphatic inflection by voice actress) The omission of connectives(?) sometimes adds poesy. One of my top ten movies, 1937 人情紙風船 Ninjō Kami Fūsen is translated as "Humanity and Paper Balloons" Sorry, dudes, Japanese has a perfectly serviceable "and = to" and it ain't in that title.

*Thread on the trailing 'u" in "desu" ...Gendered. There is also the very masculine "da" instead of des/desu/

[wj]

Nigel, I've been bingeing on Orphan Black. Which is odd, because I only see one even vaguely sympathetic character over the age of 10. But it was recommended by someone I respect. And I have to say, the lead actress does an awesome job of playing a dozen or more different characters (mostly clones), including them interacting. She's setting a new standard there.

[novakant]

recently:

The Break, Bloodline, The Affair, Ozark, Suburra, Mindhunter

[liberal japonicus]

*Thread on the trailing 'u" in "desu" ...Gendered. There is also the very masculine "da" instead of des/desu/

I'm not sure how we define something as 'gendered'. Is it something that is taken up as a marker of gender (so it is something that is hijacked for the purpose of marking gender) or does the marker carry that implication and it is merely exaggerated? To me, the former implies a period of time when the marker is not 'gendered', and it is only with the general take up by enough people that a marker becomes 'gendered'.

For ex, is vocal pitch 'gendered'? Because women tend to have higher vocal pitch then men, it can be exaggerated and made into something gendered, but it doesn't start out that way. Devoicing, on the other hand, has been a regional quality, so at what point is it 'gendered' and why?

I can see why one might say that the devoicing of the /u/ in desu is gendered, but there is a general phenomenon of vowel devoicing in Japanese and it is quite common in the Tokyo dialect. Look at chapter 6 in this book
https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=et8jErDGLCYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=A+reader+in+sociophonetics&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjT6uHpyJXXAhWCU7wKHZu6DboQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=A%20reader%20in%20sociophonetics&f=false

Unfortunately, the whole chapter isn't there, but the last section is, discussing why it is an emerging feature of gender and why that might be the case.

There are a bunch of other factors involved, the subtitle culture, the predominance of the Tokyo dialect to be accepted as standard, the exaggeration of gender roles in anime, possibly to make up for lack of visual differentiation.

[formerly known as cleek]

Of course, when this gets weaponized, it means that it is deployed to take people out rather than to create a better society.

seems premature to fret about that.

[Countme-a-Demon]

Dorene Anderson

[Nigel]

Nigel, I've been bingeing on Orphan Black.

Gave up on that, as it seemed to be going nowhere. (In contrast to Halt and Catch Fire, which built rather well in following seasons - in addition to having a nostalgia fest soundtrack...)

Tatiana Maslany is a quite impressive actress, though.

[formerly known as cleek]

i was pretty excited about HaCF, for the first season or so. but eventually, the anachronisms just killed it for me. my wife, who wasn't a computer nerd in the early 80s isn't bothered by that stuff, though.

Tatiana Maslany is a quite impressive actress, though.

she's amazing.

but we ran out of interest after the third season. started to feel like they were piling twist upon twist just to keep things moving.

these day's we're watching The Handmaid's Tale, which is fantastic. the series follows the book, but they expand on little things that flesh out the world in ways i didn't get from the book. and Elizabeth Moss is tremendous.

[Nigel]

"we can't have the inmates running the prison..."
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/10/29/houston_texans_players_kneel_to_protest_owner_bob_mcnair.html

[formerly known as cleek]

“I am sorry for all the times I stabbed men, just a little, in my previous workplace. After years of counseling, I stopped stabbing men.”

of course we're not hearing about all the men who volunteered to be stabbed, so, ya know..

[liberal japonicus]

seems premature to fret about that.

I dunno...

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/10/honor-sullied-scurillious-poltroon

[Girl from the North Country]

We also thought the Handmaid's Tale was tremendous. We hadn't read the book for years (decades?), but I remembered it better than Mr GftNC. As soon as the series ended, he read it again and said he got even more out of it this time(!) - on the other hand he was astonished when I said after several episodes how harrowing I found it, because for me it was not just an imaginary dystopia as it was for him, it was a reflection of how it is for women in various parts of the world, and no longer seemed like something that could under no circumstances happen in the UK or (particularly) the US (actually I had always thought it a, even if remote, possibility in the US).

[Countme-a-Demon]

The casting in this is spot on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEG41O5Y9-k

[Countme-a-Demon]

Next thing you know, Boehner will be announcing he's having a sex change operation and cake will not be available to him at fascist republican fetes:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ex-house-speaker-boehner-unloads-on-former-republican-colleagues-2017-10-29?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts

There is no peak full-of-shitness in America.

Full of shit is an exceptionally renewable resource in America.

[Countme-a-Demon]

Just finished the first season of Mindhunters on Netflix and while I didn't have high hopes for it, I thought the writing and the acting was high caliber.

lj referenced recently Joan Didion's Slouching Toward Bethlehem and I recommend this Netflix documentary on the lady with the supple prose:

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-most-revealing-moment-in-the-new-joan-didion-documentary

She's 83, and now very frail, but she managed over her career to place a diagnostic two fingers on the pulse of America and her tragic losses in recent years.

She has developed an expressive flailing of the arms and hands as she speaks now.

[Nigel]

Don't know whether to find this hilarious, contemptible, or just sad...

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/29/bellarmine-will-review-protest-rules-in-wake-of-anthem-kneeling-backlash/
“This year, we chose to take on the challenging topic of Understanding Race in the 21st Century,” they wrote. “When we did so, we did not imagine this would lead some of our students publicly to call attention to the racism, discrimination and marginalization that they have experienced or witnessed on and off of our campus....

[russell]

looks like manafort will turn himself in today, along with his associate rick gates.

specific charges unknown for now.

[bobbyp]

Low hanging fruit.....

[russell]

Campaign aide George Papadopoulos pleads guilty to charges of lying to the FBI.

[cleek]

https://twitter.com/feeonlyplanner/status/925011145957761024

#NotAllGeorgePapadopoulosi

[Nigel]

Low hanging fruit.....

I prefer to think one one of a slowly unravelling thread...

[bob mcmanus]

LGM linked to This Piece of Work that I find absolutely fascinating. It's about a famous leftist sf writer with the initials China Mieville.

Basically, but brilliantly eloquently and at excruciating length, it all adds up to:

"The married man told me I was his sun, moon, and stars and I believed him and then he dumped me. My broken heart is all his fault! Monster!"

The LGM crowd of course agrees with enthusiastic empathy.

1) You can't cheat an honest woman.
2) Apparently, there really is no limit to the flattery desired and believed.
3) Why the hell does he bother? I don't get either the sadism or masochism.
4) Reminded of course of my favorite movie, In the Company of Men, just kidding, but the question never asked about that movie: "Who the hell did she think she was, to deserve the studly executive? Of course he was lying."

5) But I need to examine myself I guess. There is obviously an element of niceguyism in even posting this, maybe even a little bullying and sadism. Why do I even bother? Why do I even care?

My only mitigation is that I have near-zero contact with women (and less with men) and have withdrawn for forty years from both the sadists and the masochists after deciding there really isn't anything else and the all the players like it that way.

[bob mcmanus]

The only possible saving grace of such an embarrasing screed would be if she had made it funny with a little irony, pushed her rage to a general misandry, and connected her personal mishap to a wider setting.

But then we would have had Darconville's Cat

which does push a disappointed and disillusioned objectification to a philosophical level, using misogyny as a metaphor, connecting getting dumped to a loss of romanticism and idealism, pointless intellectualization, even and especially Southron Lost Causism and even further back to Catholics in England under Henry and Elizabeth...and does it hilariously.

"Darconville drew it all out to this paradox, that on the one hand there are temporary beings whom we love but who are ever changing, and beyond them is the eternal object of love itself which is incorruptible, permanent, and ideal. And yet it is not only through the former that we can take cognizance of the latter, we would, without the former, actually have no IDEA of the latter, the imperfect relative giving us our only idea of the perfect absolute, and we advance by the dangers of delay, shipwrecked by a boat to know the sea"

and there is so much more.

But I frankly doubt we (we?) will ever reach such a level of liberation and self-respect because of the solidarity in whinging and cringing.

[hairshirthedonist]

https://politics.theonion.com/white-house-announces-obamacare-exchange-now-only-acces-1820118137?utm_content=Main&utm_campaign=SF&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing

[bob mcmanus]

I have killed so many threads in my time.

Former Portland Mayor Accused... ...there is other very good stuff on today's Naked Capitalism links post

Of fucking course sexual harassment will be weaponized and applied to politics just in time for the 2018 midterms. It was attempted in 2016 against Trump.

Coastal Neoliberal Democrats do not want to discuss economics and jobs at all or go deeply into their recent record.