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September 18, 2017

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Well, Pro Bono, it hasn't accomplished that. Other than being pretty innocuous and overly sentimental it's hard to imagine any actual valid objection to what gets sung at football games.

Assuming you think that the civil rights mvt of 1960's was a significant change, bob mcmanus, you have a point if you think that it came about because of the urban riots in Watts and Detroit. On the other hand, if you think it didn't, then your dismissal of these non-violent protests is misplaced (a 3rd option is that you believe that the 60's didn't really make any difference)

I don't agree, but I do worry that Americans create a mythos around themselves about how their change is good change and other country's change is bad change. This makes it easy to underestimate what is required to make people change.

I do think it says a lot about the US that Trump can threaten North Korea with total annihilation (in a speech lauding sovereignty!) and barely get a raised eyebrow, but chooses to pick on pro athletes and all hell breaks loose.

Then I'll spell it out for you Marty. If the USA in 1812 was "the land of the free" then either slavery was freedom, or slaves were of no more account than livestock. Is that an innocuous message?

Let me spell it out for you lj, it didn't become the national anthem until 1912, almost no one, literally knows there is any part of the song beyond what gets sung at football games and the war of 1812 has been over 200 years.

It is a beautiful expression of our pride in all of those who have defended her so that we all have the opportunity to be free. Even if in many ways that is aspirational.

sorry, tjat was spelled out for pro bono.

It is a beautiful expression of our pride in all of those who have defended her...

Who says?

When did the anthem get narrowed to mean pride in the military instead of pride (even if only aspirational) in the country as a whole?

It's not the military's anthem, it's the nation's anthem ffs.

"I pretty much think Rosa Parks defended our ideals, not a military only reference. Martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy died defending our country. Washington, Lincoln both bravely defended the country. Brave is measured in the moment."

Is what my first reaction was.

Then, it is a song about a battle, that was lost. So yes it also has a military interpretation.

Goid song in that way.

A vet who took a knee.

97 years old, to boot.

Utterly battlingly, if you go to this link Twitter tells you that "This media may contain sensitive material" and offers you a button in case you want to risk it.

I don't know if the guy who put the picture there (the vet's grandson) chose that -- does anyone here know the inner workings of Twitter well enough to be able to say?

Because if complaints or Twitter itself made that decision, and not the Twitter user himself, I have to ask why they don't have that button attached to every vile syllable that spews forth from Mr. Clickbait himself.

The American revolutionaries were more like, "Go away and leave us alone so we can continue doing what we've been doing all these many decades."

American Revolution = low taxes, no tariffs, slavery, and genocide (Native Americans). Hitler was a failed copy.

For some reason, probably Sakai's white settler ideology, it is who we are and always have been and always will be. New Deal an exception that ain't coming back.

I'll start getting interested when players and owners refuse to play. Cops kill black, that city gets no NFL.

Well, depends. Did the civil rights movement succeed (to the extent of passage of federal CR legislation, 1954-9165)due to the economic "cost" of the protests, or their symbolic nature of bringing attention to segregationist barbarism? Or was it LBJ's breaking the political west(conservative)-south(racist) alliance on that issue by promising water projects to conservative western senators? Now there's real money!

"Cops kill black, that city gets no NFL"

So here it is, what if a cop kills a white person? Which actually happens more often.

Do they get a football team? Or lose two draft picks? Maybe a hundred thousand dollar fine and a six game suspension for the starter of their choice?

And hell, the New Deal (and later Great Society) were all about financing and mobilizing the Great American Empire Expansion at a moment of opportunity.

Hey, Vietnam was a roaring success. How many nations gone socialist after Vietnam? The message was sent, the lesson was learned.

And white settlers my ass, J Sakai. Blacks Latinos and women have always jumped on board the US genocide trained when given a choice. Women may have lost effective reproductive freedom, but droning funerals and burning babies is fair compensation.

Yeah, there's something about the 3rd verse of the Star Spangled Banner, and its sneering at "the hireling and slave" that would make an African American want to stand up and sing, amirite?

And no, nobody sings the 3rd verse. Then again, nobody sings the "Deutchland über Alles" verse anymore, either. Wonder if Trumpers will bring them both back.

"So here it is, what if a cop kills a white person? Which actually happens more often.

Do they get a football team?"

Yeah, they do. They have all along.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/kenny-havard-new-orleans-saints-funding-anthem-protests

I'm more elemental than most. If a guy is going to bring another guy's mother into it ("sons of bitches"), then he should be willing to do it face to face, so the sons a bitches have the opportunity to defend their mothers by physically beating the the living shit out of the one with the mouth on him.

rump's from New York.

Try that on the street, ya pansy hotelier.

The question is not why does Texas have so much water in the wrong places, but what unregulated petrochemical causes brain-damaging birth defects like this:

http://juanitajean.com/louie-isnt-doing-this-because-hes-mean-hes-doing-it-because-hes-a-good-christian/

It ain't only gohmert. Ron Johnson thinks brain cancer is a creeping form of limp-wristed empathetic liberalism too:

https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2017/09/class-acts.html

I guess I need a brain scan. If I'm free of brain cancer, then I suppose I'm free and liable to commit genocide like Gohmert and Johnson.

And rump. He's going to go after McCain like a
Vietnamese regular building a tiger cage.

I can take McCain or leave him. He merely wants the process to be more transparent so the genocide intended by the republican effort to deny Americans health insurance is clear for all to see and a few Democrats can cave.

Ron Dreher gets it right, almost:

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/trump-football-follies/

Life is tough for him. He only has two knees on which to bow.

Our Commander in Brief got played by a tinpot dictator. Sorry, the missiles have already been launched .. at a video of an apocalypse:

vhttp://www.eschatonblog.com/2017/09/where-we-are.html

The shitheads who have done this to our country do realize what they have done and what we are going to do to them when we get our hands around their necks, do they not?

See, what I think is that rump thinks Colin Kaepernick is a Puerto Rican who once requested a pay raise for operating the freight elevator at rump rowers, and so he's one of THOSE people:

http://washingtonmonthly.com/2017/09/25/its-time-for-trump-to-focus-on-puerto-rico/

The Chinese and the Russians, and the Cubans, and the North Koreans, and the Iranians need to fill the vacuum in Puerto Rico.

Take it away from us.

I haven't heard the fucking Christian Governor of Texas demanding $200 billion for Puerto Rico, even thought the population of PR is half again what it is of Houston.

I'll bet the Spanish libertarians are sorry they settled Puerto Rico.

They desired eternal youth, but all they got was high winds, so fuck these people.

So here it is, what if a cop kills a white person? Which actually happens more often.

Do cops kill more white people? Sure. Do they kill more unarmed and non-threatening white people? Really? Got data on that?

Look, either we kill Americans in Alaska and Kentucky in equal measure to those commie states like New York or California, and Massachusetts, or I just cannot go along with this travesty:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/mccain-state-specific-buy-offs-in-obamacare-repeal-unsavory

https://www.balloon-juice.com/2017/09/25/attn-wingnuts-we-have-a-problem/

Yeah, I can explain it. I've been explaining it for 20 years, nearly, right here:

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/09/sp-graham-cassidy-will-cost-half-a-million-jobs/

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/6-top-trump-advisers-used-private-emails-for-white-house-business-report-2017-09-25?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts

Hang the fucking bitches and cunts.

They probably don't have the flu, though, so they probably aren't terminally ill and hiding it from us.

The Dallas Cowboys:

https://www.balloon-juice.com/2017/09/25/these-are-indeed-strange-days-all-the-cowboys-take-a-knee/

I live in Bronco town. I'm so choked up.

I have to say that's, pretty thoughtful.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/9/25/1701310/-Steve-Bannon-tried-to-insert-an-agent-in-Facebook-so-he-could-shape-the-direction-of-their-news

This is darned good.

Hey, Vietnam was a roaring success. How many nations gone socialist after Vietnam?

Interesting hypothesis....but may be confusing correlation with causation... maybe what killed international socialism more than LBJ, Nixon, and Kissinger was Deng and Leonid...could be it was an inside job, eh?

:) keep on truckin'

One cute little detail crops up in that article Bobby links to. Enlisted men swear to, among other things, obey the orders of the President and their superior officers. Officers . . . don't.

As an officer, I swore to support, protect, and defend the Constitution. Regulations required me to obey orders. But if those orders conflicted with the Constitution, my oath required me to disobey.

I'm guessing that Trump, draft dodger that he was, has no clue about that. I suspect he thinks that military officers to obey any orders he gives. It ain't necessarily so.

wj, someone on Balloon-Juice said the other night that even in relation to enlisted personnel, the Uniform Code of Military Justice says that you aren't supposed to obey an unlawful order. I am not going to spend the next few hours trying to find the comment; BJ goes too fast for me.

This "taking the knee" Phrase. is this an indication of the insidiousness of Game of Thrones? Where guys are always arguing about whether or not they should be bending the knee?

paraphrased from facebook:

thinking that the NFL guys taking the knee are protesting the flag, or the anthem, is like thinking Rosa Parks was protesting public transportation.

allow me, an aging suburban white dude, try to break it down for you.

many black people feel like they do not have a fair stake in American life. in particular, they feel like what should be ordinary encounters with police result in dead black people.

so, when kapernick hears the anthem, he kneels.

the anthem, the knee, football, trump, none of them are the point.

dead black people. that is the point.

maybe, someday, we'll be able to talk about substance.

And no, nobody sings the 3rd verse. Then again, nobody sings the "Deutchland über Alles" verse anymore, either. Wonder if Trumpers will bring them both back.

And that was the first verse (the current German anthem is the third, the second is akin to the original text to the tune of Star Spangled Banner).

Maybe the English will revive the anti-Scottish verse of God Save The King soon too. ;-)

The GOP/TP should take me up on my offer and adopt my "Embrace the flag and close your eyes to reason" (sung to the tune of the Horst Wessel song) since it is unlikely that "Die Partei, die Partei die hat immer recht" will find acceptance given its origin.

dead black people. that is the point.

maybe, someday, we'll be able to talk about substance.

And maybe our president will spend more time thinking about Puerto Rico than obsessing over NFL players kneeling during the national anthem.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/roy-moore-disrupts-alabama-senate-race--and-prepares-for-new-level-of-defiance-in-washington/2017/09/21/2a88a4a2-9e38-11e7-9083-fbfddf6804c2_story.html?utm_term=.0a925b64a3e3

Judge Moore says he has lots of guns. You can't see many of them.

Therefore, have more guns then he does because America will need them to destroy his brand of EVIL filth.

Marty, you may think that a song dismissing slaves as unpeople is beautiful, but you could at least recognise there some may reasonably disagree.

The third verse is relevant only in that it leaves no doubt what Key meant by the "land of the free" in the first verse - he meant the land of white people free to keep slaves.

Russell is quite right of course that the protests are not about the words of the anthem. But it would make more sense to demand respect for the anthem if it had been composed for all Americans.

btw (wonkie), "taking a knee" is a long-established term in American Football. Nothing to do with Game of Thrones. I think.

Threatening white male yelling about butt-fucking brandishes weapon in public place.

No real Americans shoot him down in self-defense.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/roy-moore-handgun-rally

His football team is in the mail.

Bending the knee is also a long-established, if now somewhat archaic, term. I guess GOT has just given it a new lease of life.

I wonder if any of you read this, calling Trump The Abbie Hoffman of the Right in today's New York Times, and if so what you thought of it?

Read that article via Dreher at the American Consumptive.

How many Army divisions and nuclear warheads did Hoffman command?

He never harmed a fly, except for himself in the end.

Unhappily, rump thinks too much of himself to kill himself.

This guy is more like rump:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvKZq705t1Q

The anti-Scottish verse is a bit much, but we can all get behind the second verse, surely ?
"Confound their politics
Frustrate their knavish tricks.."

I was just explaining take a knee to some british FB friends. It comes from HS football, where the physical fitness of the players is still not so high. The coach says 'take a knee', it means you can relax but not get too comfortable. That evolved to the coach wanting to address the players, so he says 'take a knee', which then puts the players lower than him, enforcing the hierarchy. Not related to the GoT bend the knee.

I've obviously not played at college or pro level, but 'take a knee' is difficult to imagine a pro coach saying.

This is all ironic in terms of taking a knee during the national anthem. If the players had dropped to both knees and intimated that it was related to christian principles, maybe no one would have batted an eye. However, take a knee becomes threatening even though it has its origins in acknowledging the hierarchy. Which just goes to show that whatever was done, it wasn't going to be accepted and there is no proper way of protesting.

And just after I write, this
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html?_r=0

It baffles me that our protest is still being misconstrued as disrespectful to the country, flag and military personnel. We chose it because it’s exactly the opposite.

I wonder why fundamentalist Christians are OK with the national anthem. After all, the original words are a) dedicated to a Greek (i.e. false) god, and b) celebrate drunkenness and other immorality.

But I suppose they are simply ignorant of the history of the tune.

lj, I made the mistake of reading some of the comments at that NYT op-ed. It's as though some of the people making negative comments didn't even read, or at least comprehend, what Eric Reid wrote. It's just a matter of assertion that what they're doing means what the critics say it means and that it's disrespectful to the flag, the anthem, America, our military, Mom, apple pie, hot dogs, etc.

It's very frustrating.

I thought "take a knee" was what the quarterback does to run the clock down when leading at the end of the game. But I'm not a native speaker of American Football.

And maybe our president will spend more time thinking about Puerto Rico than obsessing over NFL players kneeling during the national anthem.

And, if he really wants to help Puerto Rico, he will call for the repeal of the Jones Act.

http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2015/04/your-obergefell-v-hodges-oral-argument-open-thread.html?cid=6a00d834515c2369e201b7c7815c95970b#comment-6a00d834515c2369e201b7c7815c95970b

"Which actually happens more often"

Wrong.

Still.

no still correct

In 2015, The Washington Post launched a real-time database to track fatal police shootings, and the project continues this year. As of Sunday, 1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015. Of them, 732 were white, and 381 were black (and 382 were of another or unknown race).

more. more often. 2 to 1. Plus others it's over 3 to 1.

Come on Marty, I know you can do simple math.

Population of the US:
White: 73%
Black: 13%
So roughly 5.6:1

Compared to your 2:1 or 3:1

Which means that your odds are 2 to 3 times worse if you happen to be black.

I said nothing about f'ing odds, I said more white people were shot than blacks by cops. That's a fact. No math necessary.

I'm pretty sure if you stratified those economically the difference would be significantly less even in the odds.

Which means that your odds are 2 to 3 times worse if you happen to be black.

Marty's own article points that out. There seem to be advantages to not providing the link.

"U.S. police officers have shot and killed the exact same number of unarmed white people as they have unarmed black people: 50 each. But because the white population is approximately five times larger than the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer."

Pro Bono gets a A in American Footballese, it does also mean that. Not sure which one was first.

Great. Now you can completely ignore the fact that more white people die and there is no outcry, because math.

In the link where sapient quoted they even did the math wrong, at least wj did the math right.

unarmed

This is the same Marty logic as when he characterized gay people asking for the right to get married as "I got mine screw you" because his son and his son's girlfriend lacked the rights of married people just the way gay couples did.

The fact that his son and his son's girlfriend already had the right to get married.... what did that have to do with anything?

As for the math: if cops killed 50 white people out of, let's say, 100,000, that's .0005 (50/100000).

If the white population is five times the black population, then in my example there are 20,000 black people. 50/20,000 = .0025, or five times the odds for white people.

The relative fractions don't change no matter what initial # you plug in for population.

So I'm wondering: why is this math wrong?

Of course, as an amateur editor, I would pounce on the phrase "five times larger" from that quote, but that's a different nitpick.

I'm pretty sure if you stratified those economically the difference would be significantly less even in the odds.

If true, it would show that black people are more concentrated in those economic strata more likely to be shot by police. So no problem!

More women than men die at age 100 and above. So obviously women are more susceptible to the perils of extreme old age. After all, more of them are dying then. Never mind that far more women than men manage to even reach age 100.

If you were to harp on the fact that more women die then, when we are discussing aging.... Well you wouldn't, because it would be self-evidently ridiculous. So why do you keep bringing up a similarly ridiculous datum here?

yeah hsh thanks, missed that you're right.

hshs's way was easier, and much less confrontational. I bring up datum because whether you are black or white your chance of being killed by a cop while unarmed is 1 in 3.5 million. Your chances of dying from falling out of bed is 2 in 3.5 million.

If you want to keep leaning on statistics then admit just how rare this is for anyone.

Statistics are created to support a point if view, to create an emotional reaction whether one is warranted.

If a cop shoots somebody and it is unjustified then we should determine why that cop shot that person. If there is a trend in that department it should be dealt with.

It is not a failure of the United States, it is failure of a very small number of police and departments.

The statistics don't support the charge of widespread racism causing cops to shoot black people substantially mote than whites. The numbers are not significant statistically.

The deaths are significant individually, and should be examined and dealt with that way.

If true, it would show that black people are more concentrated in those economic strata more likely to be shot by police. So no problem!

Well except for no problem yeah. The problem, statistically significant and IMO "the problem", is that black people are poorer at a much higher percentage, three times higher. So, while not accounting for the whole difference it does, narrow that statistical delta significantly.

Solving the problem of poverty, In my opinion, more effectively reduces the disparity than generalizing racist cops as the problem.

There might be a disparity all the way up the economic strata, I just don't know, and can't find that statistical cross check to understand the difference.

Disclaimer: I am referencing specifically the difference between blacks and whites in conflict with police. There is no generalized conclusions or comparisons to other forms of explicit and implicit racism that manifest differently across society.

Police in the US shoot people they perceive to be a threat. Crime statistics suggest that it's rational that they're more likely to feel threatened by black people.

The result of this is that a black person going about his lawful business is much more likely than a white person to be shot by a policeman.

The heart of the problem isn't that the police are racist, it's that they shoot too many people - in this respect I agree with Marty.

However, the point of BLM is that the US isn't doing anything about it, and the reason why not is that the children of the rich and powerful and white are not the ones getting shot by police.

It is not a failure of the United States

The persistent, consistent treatment of black and brown people as being of a status less than that of white people is one of most salient and egregious failures of the United States.

From before it even was the United States, until now.

This will never change until people get their freakings heads out of their behinds about it.

1 deny there's a problem
2 deny there's a specific problem
3 deny that it's worth complaining about
4 deny that complaining will help
5 deny that the complaints are the right complaints
6 deny that the complainers are legitimate
7 deny that there's a solution
8 the next time the subject comes up, start all over at 1 again

What cleek said. I'd add some substeps, but I haven't had breakfast or caffeine yet.

Trevor Noah's version.

Surely the MaryB persona on that comment thread is a ... bot? Or some kind of brainless hired keyboard?

re Pittsburgh.

Yeah, the epithet "nigger" is always available and just below the surface in my hometown. Jerry Jones, the Coach of the Dallas Cowboys will never be called a nigger. The black coach of the Steelers will be. It doesn't matter what Mike Tomlin achieves in exemplary America. The word "NIGGER" is held in reserve for him.

Marty and I can fuck up all we want and no one will ever call us a "NIGGER" or request our birth certificates. Doesn't matter whether the economy is up or down. It's not the economy, stupid, it's that neither of us is a NIGGER.

I'm going to predict now that Marty will point our that his great, great grandmother was a racial half-caste sharecropper in the old South, so what's to see here?

No white President will ever be accused of being born in Kenya and lying about it, which is just another way of anagraming, out of rump's mouth and his racist Attorney General and millions of his racist, stinking pigfucking supporters, the word NIGGER.

Lee Atwater, mainstream republican cracker racist filth, was way ahead of rump.

"A fire chief from Pennsylvania has apologized for calling Steelers coach Mike Tomlin a “no-good n*gger” after his team did not come out onto the field for the national anthem during this Sunday’s game against the Chicago Bears.

CBS Pittsburgh reports that Paul Smith, the chief of the volunteer fire department in Cecil Township, Pennsylvania, posted on Facebook that Tomlin “just added himself to the list of no-good n*ggers” for his decision to note take the field during the anthem."

Apology not accepted. Ya see, white racists like the Chief, here, don't think they are racists because they claim to differentiate between a plain ole affirmative action black guy like Ben Carson who will be appointed to a high position in government to stop "giving it all away" to the blahs, those OTHER ones, the no-good NIGGERS.

There's the good uns, and the no-good uns.

Black cops should shoot more unarmed white people in the back at traffic stops. In fact, target white rump supporters. We'll get rump supporters down on THEIR knees protesting THAT, while they carry the Confederate flag, which is the one American flag that can't be disrespected because it is the flag the disrespectful have always called their own. Then for good measure, once they take a knee, we'll call them NIGGERS.

I'm going to stick with "DEPLORABLES". That seems to get them plenty riled up and feeling oppressed. They don't take a knee in protest, No, they protest by voting racist vermin into the highest offices on the land.

rump is a NIGGER. Sessions is a NIGGER. Get down on your knees, pigfuckers. Look, they have guns, too. You cant trust a NIGGER with a gun. Fire away.

Here's a human being who wouldn't be down on his knee either. He'd be taking rump out with high spikes flying. Jackie Robinson:

"Today as I look back on that opening game of my first world series, I must tell you that it was Mr Rickey's drama and that I was only a principal actor. As I write this twenty years later, I cannot stand and sing the anthem, I cannot salute the flag; I know that I am a black man in a white world. In 1972, in 1947, at my birth in 1919, I know that I never had it made."

"It is not a failure of the United States."

Yes, well, as corporations are now sentient people with more rights than actual human beings, the United States has always been a Limited Liability Corporation.

I filched the quotes in my 10:08am from Hullabaloo.

what count said at 10:08

Rightful President of the United States Hillary Clinton orders U.S. military hospital ship to Puerto Rico.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/

For her trouble, the Deplorables, many in the White House, called her a cunt.

Take a knee.

Rightful President of the United States Hillary Clinton orders U.S. Naval hospital ship to Puerto Rico:

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/

For her trouble, the Deplorables took a knee for Christ their Savior and called her a cunt.

Another thing to consider is that it's not just about shooting people. That is but one aspect of the larger racial problem with our criminal-justice system, on a national level.

I suppose I should add that using crime statistics to state that it's rational for police to be more fearful of black people ignores that biased policing and the biased court system partly drive those same statistics. There's a certain circularity to that, no?

Death comes to the deserving:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/famous-fake-news-writer-from-2016-election-dies

Take a knee, ignoramuses.

Meanwhile, President of the United States Hillary Clinton orders U.S. Naval hospital vessel to Puerto Rico:

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/09/hillary-clinton-for-president/

Be aware that the republican effort to get rid of the federal tax deduction of state and local taxes is an essential component of republican genocide in America.

It will make it even more difficult for states and localities to fund the medical insurance burdens of their poor and uninsured once Medicaid is cut and block-granted to state responsibility.

Cold-blooded killers.

No white President will ever be accused of being born in Kenya and lying about it, which is just another way of anagraming, out of rump's mouth and his racist Attorney General and millions of his racist, stinking pigfucking supporters, the word NIGGER.

Count, you missed the obvious. John McCain was born outside the US (in Panama), and Ted Cruz was, too (in Canada). Going back further, George Romney (Mitt's father) was born in Mexico, to American parents. Which got mentioned when he was running for President, but barely more than that.

But somehow that was considered irrelevant for all of them. As it should have been (and for Obama as well). If you have a parent (even just one)** who is a US citizen when you are born, then you are a US citizen by birth and eligible to be President. Period.

Unless, as you say....

** And when, as in Obama's case, that parent is your mother, there isn't even room to demand a DNA paternity test. ;-)

Be aware that the republican effort to get rid of the federal tax deduction of state and local taxes is an essential component of republican genocide in America.

Not exactly to your point, but I would most likely have to move if this were implemented without something to significantly offset the increase in my federal tax burden. My taxable income would go up by about $13k a year.

I imagine Delaware's population would increase quite a bit, what with all the people from NJ and PA moving there. Maybe MD, too. I'm not too hip to their tax regime.

"Count, you missed the obvious."

Not really. I call Cruz a CANADIAN all the time, and no one blinks an eye, except to say that it is his only good feature.

Moving from NJ wouldn't help. As far as they are concerned, if you work for a NJ company, you still pay NJ income taxes. (I live in CA, had a consulting gig entirely in CA, but a NJ company was involved, so I got stuck paying them as well.)

The more I think about it, though, the more it is to the Count's point. I can afford to move. People like me will leave. The tax base will erode rapidly in states like NJ, while the burden on state budgets will not.

I might not even be able to afford to leave if everyone else starts leaving. The market value of my house would probably drop significantly. Does that mean my property taxes would, too? Maybe. But my mortgage balance wouldn't go down. My state income taxes wouldn't go down.

Regardless of what would happen to me, NJ would be good and well fncked.

Moving from NJ wouldn't help.

I pay over $10k a year in property taxes because I live in NJ.

But somehow that was considered irrelevant for all of them.

Perhaps now.

There was a very real ‘birther’ debate about John McCain

Welcome the Democratic Birthers: Libertarians scholars say Canada-born Cruz is constitutionally eligible; liberal ones say he is not.

Barry Goldwater was also born outside of the United States.

I hope you're not suggesting that these stories had the same kind of public profile that Obama bitherism did - over the course of a decade or so.

Fast learners:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/republican-senators-roy-moore-give-him-a-chance

I remember when Hitler was climbing the ladder too and at each rung he attained, even some of the folks he promised to murder said "maybe he's being stereotyped. Let's see what happens. Maybe he'll just murder the no-good Jews and leave the good ones alone."

The gay alt-right wants those tax cuts. They can use them to build bigger closets once Moore makes their love a felony.

Not to mention that the facts of those births outside the US weren't the basis of the debate. Obama was born in the US, which should have been the end of the story.

Obama was born in the US, which should have been the end of the story.

Yeah, that whole lying thing they do ...

rump added that what really rankled him was that Price didn't stay in rump fleabag hotels on his travels and charge his per diem to the taxpayer:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/price-could-be-fired-over-private-jet-use-trump-indicates-2017-09-27?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts

Only the big dog is permitted to be a lying, cheating, thieving, corrupt republican conservative, but I repeat myself.

rump also asked it Martin Shkreli is available to take over Price's murder gig at HHS. "That guy knows his price points."

A more relevant conservative republican racist tactic vis a vis McCain were the venomous attacks on his adopted dark-complected Bangladeshi daughter in South Carolina.

He put up with it because he wants the tax cuts.

Of course:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/zinke-exception-for-montana-on-shrinking-monuments

Put me at head of Interior. I'll drill up his mother's ass.

MD's income tax is fairly high, because there is a county-level income tax levied on the middle of the road state income tax.

Why do I have to go to a conservative website to read this:

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-real-problem-the-militarization-of-the-nfl/

if rump gets his way, next year's Super Bowl halftime will feature a parade of ICBMS, tanks, killer drones flying in formation and an aircraft carrier dragged across the 50 yard line.

American worships the military submission of the world just as Russia and China do.

Better that professional sports feature sign-up info for Obamacare open season with booths to facilitate. But wait, even the website has been ordered shut down for 12 hours EVERY Sunday for "maintenance" during the shortened period.

Because making Americans more likely to fucking die from lack of health insurance is a conservative principle, just as promoting our fetish with blowing shit up abroad is conservative principle.

Concussions at home, concussions overseas.


Just remember, it is the sacred right of every American to stand and listen to their national anthem before spending several hours imbibing overpriced beer while fervently cheering for adults playing children's games.

"I imagine Delaware's population would increase quite a bit, what with all the people from NJ and PA moving there."

Moving there and INCORPORATING. It seems to be the only way to keep your rights & political influence.

Actually, it's the sacred right of every American to sell beer at the concession stands while the national anthem is being sing.

Just as it is the scared right of every American to stand at the foot of flagpoles flying the largest American flags ever manufactured while lying their asses off about the value of an exorbitant undercoating on a new car.

Don't let it get around that the author of the Pledge of Allegiance was a Socialist and a strict adherent of the constitutional separation of church and state. Contemporary conservative republican assholes, who are neither conservative nor American will be removing their children from schools and taking a knee in protest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bellamy

He didn't include the words "under rump" in the pledge either.

'Bellamy was a Christian socialist[1] who "championed 'the rights of working people and the equal distribution of economic resources, which he believed was inherent in the teachings of Jesus.'"[6] In 1891, Bellamy was "forced from his Boston pulpit for preaching against the evils of capitalism",[2] and eventually stopped attending church altogether after moving to Florida, reportedly because of the racism he witnessed there.[7]'

I'll bet Roy Moore gets all sentimental weepy-eyed when he recites the Pledge.

He'd jail and probably kill Bellamy.

If Bellamy was alive and protested at a rump rally or any fucking subhuman republican political rally in this fucked up time, he'd be set upon by the new republican, anti-American filth.

rump has removed the in-flight refueling feature of the soon-to-be manufactured Air Force Ones:

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/09/air-force-one

Seems he wants future Presidents to stay aloft for a little while during a nuclear Holocaust or a future 9/11 and then land to be incinerated like the rest of us, or better yet, plummet to Earth and crash.

Now that's populist.

Wait, republicans will have to pay extra to retrofit.

Conservative principles spreading throughout your ruined pigfucking government.

Alabama has a choice between true American decency:

"And, not for nothing, but Moore’s opponent is a guy named Douglas Jones. In 2001, Jones convicted two men for the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham in 1963, one of the iconic white supremacist terrorist acts of that period. One of those bastards already died in prison and the other keeps getting denied parole. If you’d rather be represented in the Senate by a lawless theocratic lunatic, rather than a guy that finally got justice for four murdered little girls, well, you deserve anything that goddamn happens to you."

Excerpted from:

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a12484953/who-is-roy-moore/

.... or right wing crypto-Christian, fag-murdering, racist right wing fascism.

The National Republican Party, the Republican Congress, and the White House have decided which one they want.

If they get their way, it will be the last choice they ever fucking make.

I'll bet cocks*cker Steven Seagal, who with his acting chops, should play stick-figure Dagny Taggart claymation femme fatale in the next "Atlas Shrugged" movie, could get elected to Congress on the republican ticket.

We need more Russian Putin-lovers in our government at all levels:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/russian-citizen-steven-seagal-under-siege-for-his-take-on-disgusting-anthem-protests-2017-09-27?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts

The country of Chad might as well invite al Qaeda, ISIS, Russian troops, and the Chinese Navy in to have the run of the place, considering how they are being incentivized by American shithead conservative principles:

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/the-baffling-inclusion-of-chad-in-the-travel-ban/

Steven Seagal is rocking that Sebastian Gorka look alike mafia club bouncer vibe.

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