by wj
A couple of stories floated by this week, possibly to little notice outside their local areas. They aren’t related to each other, but may be apropos things happening elsewhere in the country.
Here, our County DA has resigned, after pleading guilty to 1 count of perjury. That was a plea deal, as he had been charged with 12 counts.
It seems that he had been using his 2011 re-election campaign funds as a personal ATM. When caught (a newspaper article back in December), he claimed he had considered it a loan, and (finally) paid it back. Except his filings had said explicitly that he had taken no loans. In all, some dozen forms, signed “under penalty of perjury” (something a DA would presumably know something about) contained false statements.
It’s been a big local story for months, including lots of reports of serious unhappiness in the DA’s office here. But once he announced he was going to run for re-election, that state Attorney General’s office got involved -- leading to an indictment and trial. It took a while, but he’s gone. (And facing disbarment as well.)
Half way across the country, manslaughter charges have been filed against various Michigan state officials. They are charged, at least one with manslaughter charges, because they knew of the problems with the Flint, Michigan water supply but did or said nothing.
It’s common, in some circles, to say that the criminal justice system will never hold government officials responsible for their misdeeds. But an official is a fool (which, apparently some of them are) to assume that they will be able to skate if word gets out.
"In the 1970s, the United States had an incarceration rate comparable to those of other liberal democracies-and that rate had held steady for over 100 years. Yet today, though the US is home to only about 5 percent of the world's population, we hold nearly one quarter of its prisoners. Mass incarceration is now widely considered one of the biggest social and political crises of our age. How did we get to this point?
...Pfaff urges us to look at other factors instead, including a major shift in prosecutor behavior that occurred in the mid-1990s, when prosecutors began bringing felony charges against arrestees about twice as often as they had before. He describes a fractured criminal justice system, in which counties don't pay for the people they send to state prisons, and in which white suburbs set law and order agendas for more-heavily minority cities. And he shows that if we hope to significantly reduce prison populations, we have no choice but to think differently about how to deal with people convicted of violent crimes-and why some people are violent in the first place."
Locked In: The True Causes of Mass Incarceration—and How to Achieve Real Reform
Posted by: CharlesWT | June 16, 2017 at 02:16 PM
Link fixed:
Locked In: The True Causes of Mass Incarceration—and How to Achieve Real Reform
Posted by: CharlesWT | June 16, 2017 at 02:34 PM
I've been having that same problem with links being messed up the first time I create them. Not sure why....
Posted by: wj | June 16, 2017 at 02:50 PM
In my case, I left out the URL. :}
Posted by: CharlesWT | June 16, 2017 at 02:51 PM
Traveling and without good internet at the moment but I do wonder if the timing of the change in prosecutorial behavior mentioned in CharlesWT's link is connected to the crack cocaine epidemic...and, because what else if it's the U.S., race.
Further relevant reading: The New Jim Crow, by Michelle Alexander.
Posted by: JanieM | June 16, 2017 at 04:29 PM
And a review of Pfaff's book by Adam Gopnik in The New Yorker.
Posted by: JanieM | June 16, 2017 at 04:57 PM
trump's kids just purchased Grenfell Towers. They are raising the rents leasing it's skeletal, charred remains as is to our own Department of Health and Human Services, from whence the new, sprinkler-free American Health Care Act shall be de-adminstered.
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-16/beware-of-blaming-government-for-london-tower-fire
They are going to rename the joint Fawlty Towers. Avoid the elevators when exiting the building.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrAKFakK3i8
Posted by: Countme-In | June 16, 2017 at 05:00 PM
I suspect that the increase in felony charges was attributable to three strikes, where only felonies counted.
Posted by: Marty | June 16, 2017 at 05:02 PM
The author's thesis, even though the war on drugs and other factors play a role, is that prosecutorial behavior is the driving force behind mass incarceration.
From the same link:
"Locked In is a revelatory investigation into the root causes of mass incarceration... Having spent fifteen years studying the data on imprisonment, John Pfaff takes apart the reigning consensus created by Michelle Alexander and other reformers, revealing that the most widely accepted explanations-the failed War on Drugs, draconian sentencing laws, an increasing reliance on private prisons-tell us much less than we think."
Posted by: CharlesWT | June 16, 2017 at 05:07 PM
Fire! Fa-fa-fa-Fire!!
http://washingtonmonthly.com/2017/06/16/the-republicans-have-no-workable-plan-for-the-debt-ceiling/
Posted by: Countme-In | June 16, 2017 at 05:09 PM
trump's kids just purchased Grenfell Towers.
Megan freaking McArdle.
Is it reality, or is it the Onion? Every day, it's harder to tell.
Posted by: russell | June 16, 2017 at 05:23 PM
The wheels of injustice: Philando Castile. People are talking about it, but not much to say. At least it was prosecuted. I listened to his mother's lawyer, and his mother. No words.
Posted by: sapient | June 16, 2017 at 05:34 PM
JanieM, thanks for the book review link.
Posted by: CharlesWT | June 16, 2017 at 05:45 PM
Amazon is purchasing Whole Foods:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/as-amazon-goes-big-in-brick-and-mortar-it-has-tech-to-fight-the-monster-it-created-2017-06-16?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts
Key takeaways (pronounced "takeeahwees" per Australian aboriginal)
"In late May, Amazon was granted a patent called “physical store online shopping control,” which, using a store’s Wi-Fi, will block requests sent to competitor websites. The patent says: “In the event that requested content is determined to be associated with or potentially associated with a competitor or an item of interest, one or more control actions may be directed on behalf of the retailer. In this regard, online shopping control may be provided on behalf of the retailer.” The patent, first reported by the Verge earlier this week, initially baffled some, but now makes sense."
Apparently, they will also have one-way glass in the store-front windows so you can't see out and glimpse the Kroger store across the street. In addition, your cell phone will issue an electric shock near your crotch every time you pass the organic celery at Whole Foods and think to yourself, "I could get that for half the price down the street at the discount "Partly Foods".
Ouch!
More:
“It will also triangulate your position in the store, market to you while you are in the store, and understand your behavior in the store,"
This is going to make shoplifting the leg of lamb out of the place in your underwear just that much tougher for the uninsured 99%. I don't want to be triangulated. It made me mad when the Clintons did it and don't think I'm going to stand for it from Bezos. Will there be a little red laser light dot targeted on your forehead as you move through the store? If I wanted that, I'd be a republican.
What's that you say?:
“You passed the milk, you always get milk,” your smartphone may tell you while shopping.'
Harassed by the milk. "You forgot the milk? You bought the gin And the tonic, I see, and yet the kids must go without milk. I don't know why I bother sending you to the store", the milk will nag.
Maybe I could install an app on my phone that convinces the milk to sneak out of the store and follow me into the parking lot, where I can kidnap it for free. If the authorities object, I'll blame the milk for stalking me.
The cans of peas will admonish you via your cellphone in your mother's voice as you pass by them without picking up a can or two: "Buy your peas, or you'll stand here until you do. And no dessert for you! You just don't know what is good, and good for you, too!"
The luscious desserts in the bakery will chime in like Sirens on your phone, "We are here for you. You may have us. C'mon, handsome, just one can of peas and we are yours, mon ami."
How bout them talking cigarettes near the exit?
"What do you mean you quit years ago? Science, schlmience, don't listen to those busybodies. Go ahead, no one is watching. Triangulating maybe, but watching? NOOOOO. We are very discreet and won't tell the wellness app your employer put on your phone to track your tobacco intake. The breath mints are to your right."
In other news, my Roomba got rid of my mop without telling me. I also caught it in flagrante delicto with my food processor in the closet.
Posted by: Countme-In | June 16, 2017 at 06:01 PM
The cucumber got the best and the worst of it.
Posted by: Countme-In | June 16, 2017 at 06:06 PM
I saw that mention of the patent for keeping you from checking prices elsewhere. Personally, if I encounter a store using something like that, I'm going to abandon my cart full of groceries and walk out.
If Amazon is smart, they will respond to the stories about the patent by saying that they patented it to prevent competitors from implementing it, or something similar.
Posted by: wj | June 16, 2017 at 06:12 PM
"Personally, if I encounter a store using something like that, I'm going to abandon my cart full of groceries and walk out."
No, as you browse and shop inside the store, the aisles will be shifting and rearranging themselves behind you, preventing retreat. Exit doors will only appear after you have paid for the products that browbeat you into buying them.
If you ask to talk to management, a matron will appear, introduce herself as Felicity T. Kafka, who will ask "How may you help us?" and present you with a bill of indictment listing of vague, unspecified guilts, some metaphysical, others related to product placement. A lynch mob of products you chose to ignore via free will gather around you and reenact "The Ox-Bow Incident" with you as the Dana Andrews character.
Posted by: Countme-In | June 16, 2017 at 06:30 PM
Count, did your love for the British invasion extend to poetry, and in particular the Liverpool poets (Adrian Henri, Brian Patten and Roger McGough - see The Mersey Sound anthology)? Your final paragraph at 06.01 above reminds me very much of Roger McGough's lovely series of love poems, Summer with Monika. I've tried to find the relevant section, but I can't find it in written form (as opposed to spoken) online. It's very charming, and very Liverpudlian, I think you might like it. Below is one of Roger McGough's most famous poems from that era, "Let Me Die a Youngman's Death":
Let me die a youngman's death
not a clean and inbetween
the sheets holywater death
not a famous-last-words
peaceful out of breath death
When I'm 73
and in constant good tumour
may I be mown down at dawn
by a bright red sports car
on my way home
from an allnight party
Or when I'm 91
with silver hair
and sitting in a barber's chair
may rival gangsters
with hamfisted tommyguns burst in
and give me a short back and insides
Or when I'm 104
and banned from the Cavern
may my mistress
catching me in bed with her daughter
and fearing for her son
cut me up into little pieces
and throw away every piece but one
Let me die a youngman's death
not a free from sin tiptoe in
candle wax and waning death
not a curtains drawn by angels borne
'what a nice way to go' death
Posted by: Girl from the North Country | June 16, 2017 at 06:45 PM
My comment to Buchanan's bill of indictment against the violent Left made it thru moderation:
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/buchanan/a-long-history-of-leftist-hatred/
For once, I am the soul of brevity on a thread.
Posted by: Countme-In | June 16, 2017 at 06:45 PM
GFTNC:
Thanks, I'll look up those poets.
Posted by: Countme-In | June 16, 2017 at 06:52 PM
I shop at Whole Foods, and I like it. I read the Washington Post, and I like it. I am an Amazon Prime customer, and I like that too.
Not sure why I should be hating Jeff Bezos. Sorry. More proof that I'm a neoliberal.
Posted by: sapient | June 16, 2017 at 06:59 PM
"I shop at Whole Foods, and I like it. I read the Washington Post, and I like it. I am an Amazon Prime customer, and I like that too."
Me too, more or less.
But if he was a lover and you jilted him/her, I get the feeling he would suddenly begin turning up everywhere, at the bookstore, dressed as a milkman and putting two quarts on your doorstep every morning so he could glimpse you in your bathrobe, as the paperboy.
He's like the Burger King, staring at you with a frozen, cracked grin and asking "Got milk?" at inopportune times.
It's Friday. Just having a bit of fun.
Posted by: Countme-In | June 16, 2017 at 07:19 PM
The peak in violent crime in that was the motivation for tough-on-crime policies and three strikes and mandatory minimum sentences -- turns out to be mostly explained by the petrocorps decision to add tetraethyl lead to gasoline. Their scientists knew that it was deadly when the decision was made, from horrible experience with trifling accidentla exposures in the lab.
So a generation of young people, primarily in cities, were poisoned in such a way as to permanently damage their impulse control, and those people were incarcerated in huge numbers as their behavioral deficiencies ran them afoul of the increasingly-punitive laws.
The crackdown did nothing to stem the elevated incidence of crime; only when lead was removed from our motor fuels, and after enough years passed that the victims grew old, did crime markedly decline.
The petrocorp execs who made the decisions that created the situation suffered no consequences except perhaps burglary by one of their victims.
It was our own private slo-mo Bhopal.
Posted by: joel hanes | June 16, 2017 at 07:21 PM
via Charles Pierce regarding the subject of fishing expeditions:
'To gain some perspective, let's listen in to a White House conversation from June 21, 1972, via The New York Times. The president at the time was concerned about some law-enforcement activities. His chief of staff was called upon to explain matters.
"The problem is that there are all kinds of other involvements and if they started a fishing expedition on this they're going to start picking up tracks. . . . The only tie they've got to the White House is that this guy's name was in their books, Howard Hunt, and that Hunt used to be a consultant ---- to Colson at the White House. . . . You've got to be careful of pushing that too hard, because he was working on a lot of stuff. . . . It leads to other things."'
Posted by: Countme-In | June 16, 2017 at 07:25 PM
Joel Hanes, that makes sense.
Interesting that trump and sessions are long lead and prison futures.
Posted by: Countme-In | June 16, 2017 at 07:27 PM
he would suddenly begin turning up everywhere
That's something one got used to a long time ago.
Posted by: sapient | June 16, 2017 at 07:35 PM
Megan freaking McArdle...
Doing her usual act of taking a sensible principle (in this case the cost/benefit analysis of regulation), and applying to it her impressively profound ignorance.
Posted by: Nigel | June 16, 2017 at 07:48 PM
GFTNC:
Thanks, I'll look up those poets.
Also, the only time I go to Whole Paycheck is to have coffee meetings with people I want to impress with my financial or business acumen. (Although typing that it seems like it should be counterproductive.) I finally bought something from Amazon this year but the Prime thing doesn't matter because I cant afford beef and well WaPo sucks.
But most of the money I have left is invested in AMZN so thank you all.
Posted by: Marty | June 16, 2017 at 07:59 PM
Marty, you're welcome! So happy I can enjoy myself for your increased wealth!
GftNC, the latest episode of Handmaid's Tale made me so sad because the US can't be a haven refugees, like Canada is for Moira. There is so much to say about that story, but the opportunity to save people in distress - of all the things that Trump is doing to the US, destroying that is what I hate him most for.
Posted by: sapient | June 16, 2017 at 08:04 PM
I own some Amazon too.
I'm a Neo-hypocrite.
Posted by: Countme-In | June 16, 2017 at 08:20 PM
I'm a Neo-hypocrite.
Gawd.
Posted by: sapient | June 16, 2017 at 08:25 PM
Everyone owns Amazon on Mondays!
Posted by: Marty | June 16, 2017 at 08:31 PM
Another insight into how divided our country is:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/americas-new-tobacco-crisis-the-rich-stopped-smoking-the-poor-didnt/2017/06/13/a63b42ba-4c8c-11e7-9669-250d0b15f83b_story.html?utm_term=.1565b8a02515
It occurs to me that, these days, if I see someone smoking in a movie, either it is half a century or more old, or the individual is poor/lower class . . . or at least grew up poor. Because, among "people like me," essentially nobody smokes.
(My father smoked the whole time I was growing up. But that was a different generation. By 60 his lungs were trashed -- as in, carting an oxygen tank around full time. By 70, he had decided to end it all to stop the pain. And did; pills.)
It will be interesting to see if the anti-smoking folks can figure out how to connect with and persuade the rather different population that they need to reach now.
Posted by: wj | June 16, 2017 at 08:44 PM
Before the thread turns too hilarious,
Steve Scalise is David Duke without the baggage is, we hope, on the mend.
Meanwhile Philando Castile is past mending, and the jury found his killer to be a-okay.
I'm going to Whole Foods to get me some kale chips.
Posted by: sapient | June 16, 2017 at 08:45 PM
Count, I do love it when you are on a roll.
Posted by: doretta | June 16, 2017 at 09:24 PM
It will be interesting to see if the anti-smoking folks can figure out how to connect with and persuade the rather different population that they need to reach now.
One way is for them, and various government entities, is to stop treating vaping as the same as and as bad as smoking.
Posted by: CharlesWT | June 16, 2017 at 09:26 PM
Is there any data on how bad vaping really is? Or isn't? Preferably data that isn't from a tobacco company, of course.
That is, is it actually harmless, or just less bad (if it is)?
Posted by: wj | June 16, 2017 at 09:41 PM
Is there any data on how bad vaping really is?
So, sorry CharlesWT. This is something that a government (or non-partisan) research initiative should be studying.
I'm definitely on the side of vapes (if they're safe), and am opposed to stigmatizing the vaping industry ... but want to have data from entities not profiting from happy results.
Posted by: sapient | June 16, 2017 at 09:49 PM
Amazon is purchasing Whole Foods
all your base are belong to jeff bezos
Doing her usual act
she usually waits until all the dead are buried before weighing in.
so, a personal best, of sorts.
Is there any data on how bad vaping really is?
probably not as bad as consuming nicotine in the form smoke of burning leaves, plus whatever other crap they load cigarettes up with nowadays.
that said, nicotine is, all by itself, an excellent pesticicde.
Posted by: russell | June 16, 2017 at 10:09 PM
E-Cigarettes don't have the carcinogens and toxins that cigarettes do.
A lot the objections to vaping seems to be that some people just can't abide the appearance of smoking. They prefer to eliminate this visual pron than to allow, if not encourage, people to do something less harmful to themselves.
"Many people think the risks of e-cigarettes are the same as smoking tobacco and this report clarifies the truth of this.
In a nutshell, best estimates show e-cigarettes are 95% less harmful to your health than normal cigarettes, and when supported by a smoking cessation service, help most smokers to quit tobacco altogether."
E-cigarettes: an evidence update: A report commissioned by Public Health England (pdf)
Posted by: CharlesWT | June 16, 2017 at 10:11 PM
I goofed the link again... :}
E-cigarettes: an evidence update: A report commissioned by Public Health England (pdf)
Posted by: CharlesWT | June 16, 2017 at 10:17 PM
some people just can't abide the appearance of smoking. They prefer to eliminate this visual pron than to allow, if not encourage, people to do something less harmful to themselves.
Always assuming that people who are vaping would otherwise be smoking. But my (entirely subjective) impression is that vaping is marketed to upscale kids who otherwise would not be consuming tobacco. Rather than being bought by folks who otherwise would be smoking.
That is, it's a tool to expand the market for the product. Not an alternate (perhaps less harmful) way for the existing market to consume.
Posted by: wj | June 16, 2017 at 10:40 PM
fwiw, my stepson is a vaper. his brother in law got him vaping instead of smoking tobacco. i see that as a positive move.
i dont care if folks vape, or smoke. i'd prefer that they not do either in enclosed rooms that i am also in, other than that, do as you wish.
all of that said, nicotine is not good for you. there are things that are worse, probably including some joneses of my own.
i'm not judging smokers or vapers. if you think vaping is harmless, you're mistaken, that's all.
to the OP, in addition to being violent, Americans are to my eye unusually fond of punishing each other. that inclination varies, markedly, by class and color of skin.
we may not be the champions of freedom that we perceive ourselves to be.
Posted by: russell | June 17, 2017 at 08:04 AM
sapient @ 08.04p.m., I do so agree with you. The "Send me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" may have been rose-tinted, but it was a beacon in the world, and a wonderful aspiration from a nation that saw itself, and wanted to see itself, that way. Whereas now, the image is more of a booted foot stamping on a human face (again, is this from 1984? I think so). Hopefully not for long, but history will be the judge.
Posted by: Girl from the North Country | June 17, 2017 at 08:10 AM
The NRA and Philando Castile:
https://www.thetrace.org/2016/07/nra-black-gun-owners-philando-castile/
I'm betting that if James Hodgkinson was black, first, no bird-hunting quips from the NRA hunted, and second, he would have been taken down before getting too many, if any, shots off.
Posted by: Countme-In | June 17, 2017 at 09:34 AM
The "Send me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" may have been rose-tinted, but it was a beacon in the world
And it brought us an enormous number of hardworking and talented people. Talent -- not something we are particularly adept at identifying in new arrivals. But look at what immigrants, and the first generation children of immigrants, have built and accomplished. We would be far poorer without them.
Which is enormously self-centered, I know. But Americans are like that. ;-)
Posted by: wj | June 17, 2017 at 10:36 AM
I think the main problems with vaping are product safety (although Harold Lloyd could tell you stories about the risks of traditional exploding tobacco products) and insufficient control/regulation of the additives in the liquids.
---
on the lead tetraethyl hypothesis, this might partially explain spikes in crime but not the vastly different sentencing in the US vs. civilized countries.
Posted by: Hartmut | June 17, 2017 at 12:00 PM
Which is enormously self-centered, I know.
That's not how I see it, wj. I see it as one of the rare occasions where one can truthfully say what is normally comforting but untruthful, virtue is amply rewarded.
Posted by: Girl from the North Country | June 17, 2017 at 12:27 PM
I think the lead argument is pretty compelling to explain widespread anti-social behavior. My understanding is that the rise of violent crime in China's urban areas has coincided with industrialization without environmental controls.
Sadly, Flint might be another long term study on the effects of lead on developing minds.
Posted by: jrudkis | June 17, 2017 at 01:06 PM
Philando Castile
somehow, the good guy with a gun didn't stop the bad guy with a gun.
Posted by: formerly known as cleek | June 17, 2017 at 02:57 PM
For those interested in such things, this is an interesting (and as far I can tell fairly accurate) account of the self-defeating Conservative general election campaign:
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/revealed-how-theresa-mays-two-aides-seized-control-of-the-tory-campaign-to-calamitous-effect-a3566796.html?amp
Posted by: Nigel | June 17, 2017 at 03:13 PM
Not sure why I should be hating Jeff Bezos.
Maybe because Amazon is treating its employees like sh!t:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html?_r=0
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/11/amazon-accused-of-intolerable-conditions-at-scottish-warehouse
But yeah, if you're a neoliberal you wouldn't care.
Posted by: novakant | June 17, 2017 at 04:03 PM
Not to worry. Amazon is automating out of existence those bad jobs.
Posted by: CharlesWT | June 17, 2017 at 04:15 PM
Workers shouldn't have to rely on the generosity of corporations to be treated fairly. That's why there are such things as labor laws. If Amazon isn't complying, they need to be penalized.
Posted by: sapient | June 17, 2017 at 04:22 PM
Sometimes I wish Newt Gingrich could play baseball:
http://juanitajean.com/this-will-hurt-your-neck/
But he has no talent for that either. If the man would only become addicted to cocaine and crack, he could stand in as the Mayor of MunchkinToronto.
Regarding Amazon, and as a shareholder (huge stake, five shares), the federal government (everywhere) should bring the hammer down on Amazon's labor practices.
They need a union.
That said, owning Amazon stock is almost exactly like being on welfare. I sit on my ass and the dollars, in this case capital gains, come rolling in. If I sold my shares right now, I could load up on steak at the grocery store just like those SNAP proles everyone looks down their fucking conservative, judgemental noses at.
To add insult to injury for the whining jagoffs out there, I bought my shares with my saved wages from having a federal job, labor which many conservatives spend inordinate amounts of time and effort trying to prove I was overpaid for.
Further, I plan on buying more Amazon shares if they dip with my Federal pension income, the bane of republican conservative taxpayers who believe I'm on the theft dole.
Two words: fuck off.
I own some Costco shares too. They pay decent wages for the labor of human beings.
Posted by: Countme-In | June 17, 2017 at 05:00 PM
I like to read this at DKOS, one of the few things I read in full there:
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/6/14/1652695/-I-wonder-what-would-happen-if-we-all-went-turkey-hunting-disguised-as-turkeys-GunFAIL-CCXLI
Redstate has a similar feature with a slightly different slant every month called "So Many People To Shoot, So Little Time".
My takeaway is that conservative Second Amendment aficionados and their base will eventually kill all of themselves and their children and some of the neighbors' children as well without intervention from insane, criminal nutcases like Hodgkinson.
I don't want to leave out the inner-city minority gangs. They kill themselves too and would fight just as savagely as Ted Nugent would if their weapons were confiscated.
There is nothing that can be done.
Thank you, Scalise.
Posted by: Countme-In | June 17, 2017 at 05:43 PM
Workers shouldn't have to rely on the generosity of corporations to be treated fairly
corporations should not require the stick of the law to compel thm to treat their employees fairly.
and by "fairly" I do not mean "what the market will bear".
There is nothing that can be done.
when there are lots and lots of guns around, it's more likely that folks will get shot.
that's not an argument for or against anything, it's the equivalent of saying the more people drive, the more likely they are to get in a car accident.
stuff like this is not inevitable. it's the logical consequence of choices we make.
Posted by: russell | June 17, 2017 at 06:54 PM
corporations should not require the stick of the law to compel them to treat their employees fairly.
I disagree with this in a way, although it's great that some corporations step up (such as Costco, as the Count points out). It's unrealistic because of the way "for profit," "public" corporations are set up to work for shareholders. I hire workers to help me in my home and yard, and I pay them a good wage. I'm not responsible to shareholders, though. That's why "public" corporations need to be accountable to "public" expectations and regulations.
Public corporations die if they don't make money for shareholders. You can complain about that all you want, but corporations aren't set up to be moral entities. They need society's moral force (law and regulation) to make them adhere to whatever standards we demand. It's ridiculous (and, honestly, contrary to their own fiduciary responsibilities to shareholders) to expect them to be "nice". We can change that! Through laws.
Costco is "nice" and their shares do well, so they've found a sweet spot. Good for them, and when I go to a big box store, I go there. That's cool - but laws are better.
Posted by: sapient | June 17, 2017 at 07:09 PM
Costco's business plan requires fewer, but higher performing, employees. They get paid accordingly.
Posted by: CharlesWT | June 17, 2017 at 07:29 PM
Costco's business plan requires fewer, but higher performing, employees. They get paid accordingly.
I have no idea how Costco makes things work. I do know that corporations, including Costco, have to meet their bottom line, or their share value drops, and they die.
We can complain that people aren't nice, or we can insist that they meet minimum standards through laws and regulations, which put corporations on an even playing field. Public policy isn't about private kindness. We should all be kind, of course, but we should insist on standards from amoral, "for profit" entities.
Posted by: sapient | June 17, 2017 at 07:36 PM
Also, consumers shouldn't have to bear the burden of assessing morality into their choices (although, it's nice if they do, of course). As an example of how I try to shop with my conscience: I eat a lot of fish. I buy it at two places, the local fish guy (who may or may not observe "sustainable" fishing) or at Whole Foods, which markets itself as observing sustainable fishing. After having done some research, Whole Foods seems to be legit. Also, Whole Foods seems to give a flying f' about humane treatment of animals.
So "Whole Paycheck" has some other issues, including anti-unionism (although employees are paid well).
At a certain point, it stops being my problem. I do the best I can with the information I'm willing to collect, and do some shopping at the farmers' market, and grow food, etc.
But that's why we have laws. Because very few people have the "privilege" of figuring all of this out.
Posted by: sapient | June 17, 2017 at 07:47 PM
It's unrealistic because of the way "for profit," "public" corporations are set up to work for shareholders.
the way they are set up is not a function of some inviolable natural. it is a function of choices made by us, as a society and a culture.
Posted by: russell | June 17, 2017 at 10:06 PM
inviolable natural law, that is.
Posted by: russell | June 17, 2017 at 10:07 PM
the way they are set up is not a function of some inviolable natural. it is a function of choices made by us, as a society and a culture.
Yes. Those choices actually manifest themselves as laws. That's the way it all happens. It's silly to expect corporations, set up by our own laws to be profit making entities, to be charitable institutions. Our laws can specify otherwise if that's what we want.
Posted by: sapient | June 17, 2017 at 10:17 PM
yes.
i think we are on the same page, and i think you have stated the case more accurately.
Posted by: russell | June 17, 2017 at 10:22 PM
By the way, corporation laws are mostly state laws. Labor laws tend to be federal, but state laws are important too. Laws are way more effective than boycotts or wishful thinking.
Posted by: sapient | June 17, 2017 at 10:24 PM
There's some question as to whether Amazon is a for-profit corporation...
Posted by: CharlesWT | June 17, 2017 at 10:54 PM
Hmmm.
Posted by: sapient | June 17, 2017 at 11:24 PM
Bezos must be slipping... :)
Posted by: CharlesWT | June 17, 2017 at 11:34 PM
We just had some 75 people burn to death in a tower block - apparently everything was according to fire regulations and completely lawful. Tough luck, I guess.
Posted by: novakant | June 18, 2017 at 03:23 AM
Well novakant, then we need better laws, as sapient is saying. The use of cheaper, flammable cladding (which seems to have been put on here in the latest refurbishment) should be outlawed.
Posted by: Girl from the North Country | June 18, 2017 at 05:06 AM
As I have said after 9/11, all buildings exceeding a certain height should be required to be twin structured with several connections between both parts (secured against fire jumping to the other side), so the risk of being trapped above a fire or another noxious event would be minimized.
Posted by: Hartmut | June 18, 2017 at 05:43 AM
"all buildings exceeding a certain height should be required to be twin structured with several connections between both parts"
You can't fool us, Hartmut, I see what you're doing.
You want tall buildings to look like this:
H
H
H
The 'safety' excuses are just a cover for the massive ego massage, amirite?
Posted by: Snarki, child of Loki | June 18, 2017 at 11:17 AM
But Snarki, inspiration can come from anywhere.
Posted by: wj | June 18, 2017 at 11:35 AM
We just had some 75 people burn to death in a tower block - apparently everything was according to fire regulations and completely lawful...
Apparently not:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/18/prosecutors-considering-manslaughter-charges-grenfell-tower/
Posted by: Nigel | June 18, 2017 at 04:06 PM
In German the stack of H would read like laughter.
As for applying one's ego to landscape, it would be difficult to beat Victor Hugo who, at least in his book set there*, shaped a whole Channel Island according to his initials and took care of the proper illustrations too.
*The Toilers of the Sea
Posted by: Hartmut | June 18, 2017 at 04:23 PM
Nigel, we'll talk again when we have people convicted and thrown in jail.
But if it is the case that laws have been broken, then that makes my point against a legalistic view even stronger.
Posted by: novakant | June 18, 2017 at 05:01 PM
so, what's your suggestion, novokant?
Posted by: formerly known as cleek | June 18, 2017 at 06:02 PM
maybe not treating people like sh!t would be a good start and exposing those who do instead of making excuses for them - if nobody cares there won't be any new laws to rectify injustice and the laws are only as strong as the will and capabilities to enforce them
Posted by: novakant | June 18, 2017 at 07:12 PM
They should change their name to The March of Billionaires and Automatic AR-15s and then I would bet we would have a whole new baseball game/shooting match with pigfucker McConnell:
http://shareblue.com/mitch-mcconnell-refuses-to-meet-with-the-march-of-dimes-on-the-gop-health-care-bill/
I think the secrecy is locked down so hard because these conservative republican murderers are trying to figure out how to fit the entire HCFSANOWHOCGFTSA "Healthcare For Some Americans Not Others WHO Can Go Fuck Themselves Act) are trying to water the text of the bill down to where dumbass, illiterate conservatives who burn buildings to the ground on account of the fact that it's cheaper than interfering in the free market can read the thing in one sitting, unlike its predecessor.
Batter up, motherfuckers.
Posted by: Countme-In | June 19, 2017 at 09:13 AM
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2017/06/the-mad-king-is-not-amused-by.html
I understand Wayne LaPierre, several Putin deputies, and Ann Coulter are pretty high up on trump's succession list for that place misnamed the Justice Department.
I repeat my prediction that no matter how trump is removed by legal means, he (along with his loyalists) will have to be rousted out of Mar-A-Lago feet first on gurnies by a squad of Navy Seals, who themselves, given some of their misbegotten talkshow republican loyalties, may turn against the rule of law and join the trump siege and have to be bin Ladened out of the joint by killers.
I'm thinking the cladding at Mar-a-Lago is not particularly flammable so burning them out of there will not be an option.
Posted by: Countme-In | June 19, 2017 at 09:33 AM
It's amazing too how many high-placed "liberals", who you think would possess more fire-retardant sensibilities, decide after their first billion to go the full Dagny Taggart and become pigfuckers like the rest of em:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/18/foxconn-life-death-forbidden-city-longhua-suicide-apple-iphone-brian-merchant-one-device-extract
Posted by: Countme-In | June 19, 2017 at 09:46 AM
I suspect the only thing that would derail the Russia investigation now would be if trump/putin decided to declare a kind of WWF nuclear war, against each other just to deflect our attention:
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/06/su-22-down
Posted by: Countme-In | June 19, 2017 at 09:52 AM
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/06/now-dumbest-thing-anyone-ever-said-freedom-expression
The next you know, this guy could show up again, and politically correct conservatives would tell us we must sit quietly and listen to his crap all over again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIJpOw78HMM
Posted by: Countme-In | June 19, 2017 at 10:01 AM
Count, don't you think it more likely that Trump would be persuaded to go for a "Short, victorious war"? Just a little something to distract....
Wouldn't, after all, want to irritate his best bro' Putin.
Posted by: wj | June 19, 2017 at 10:37 AM
Wait, what?
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3274216-lockheed-make-fminus-16-planes-india
Posted by: Countme-In | June 19, 2017 at 10:53 AM
Lookee, ignoree:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-the-republican-health-plan-could-hurt-those-with-employer-health-insurance-2017-06-16?siteid=bigcharts&dist=bigcharts
Posted by: Countme-In | June 19, 2017 at 10:56 AM
Wait, what?
We better stay on good terms with our Indian friends. Their pilots are apparently damned good.
Posted by: russell | June 19, 2017 at 11:05 AM
No doubt all those Trump fans in Texas are celebrating the closure of the Lockheed plant in Ft Worth. After all, he gets credit for all the economic stuff that happens, right...?
Posted by: wj | June 19, 2017 at 11:17 AM
No, they are esctatic. More reason to hate liberals. Why, because they are willing meat sucked into the black hole hatehoover that is trump:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/why-trump-doesnt-need-fox-news-anymore?via=newsletter&source=Weekend
Posted by: Countme-In | June 19, 2017 at 11:34 AM
"ecstatic".
But I think trumpsters spell it "esctatic" because some overpaid elite school gummint marm with summers off tried to correct them once and they've never gotten over the constitutional right to misspell and still be taken seriously.
Posted by: Countme-In | June 19, 2017 at 11:38 AM
By mean, did he mean make it meaner?
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2017/06/19/medicaid-is-getting-sliced-even-more-in-the-senate/
Cold-blooded murder.
Posted by: Countme-In | June 19, 2017 at 11:56 AM
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/6/19/1673063/-GOP-official-on-Rep-Scalise-shooting-I-think-the-shooting-is-going-to-win-this-election-for-us
Well clearly then, the lesson for republican candidates across the board is to move their own assassinations to the top of the campaign strategy list, maybe even ahead of finding new clever ways to use the "n" word.
Posted by: Countme-In | June 19, 2017 at 12:02 PM
GOP strategist: Every time a republican is gunned down, we win an election.
GOP candidate: How can I get a piece of this?
Kelly Ann Conmanalltheway: Yes, but there are hardly any liberal Democrat assassins out there, in fact, the only one they had is dead.
Strategist: Well, then clearly, we need to start killing each other, as loyal republicans.
Candidate: I'll forget to duck and I'll be in in like Flynn.
Conmanalltheway: Don't say Flynn.
Posted by: Countme-In | June 19, 2017 at 12:09 PM
That's my quota for the week, unless trump gets ahead of me again.
Posted by: Countme-In | June 19, 2017 at 12:10 PM
The RNC figures how to bypass Russian hackers and leak all of our personal data on their own:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/rnc-data-firm-accidental-leak-voters-personal-data
When in doubt, hire the private sector. They fuck up so much more efficiently and with lower overhead underfoot.
Posted by: Countme-In | June 19, 2017 at 01:00 PM
Speaking of flynn, no one is still in like flynn:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/who-is-the-hidden-hand-at-the-nsc
V
E
R
M
I
N
Posted by: Countme-In | June 19, 2017 at 01:10 PM
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/cnn-jim-acosta-white-house-briefings
Posted by: Countme-In | June 19, 2017 at 04:05 PM
Count, my wife informs me the speculation is that prohibiting recording of the White House press briefing is to prevent Donald from hearing it.
Sounds right to me.
Posted by: ral | June 19, 2017 at 04:16 PM
Certainly makes as much sense as any other explanation I can think of. Especially given the stories that have come out on how desperate the staff seems to be to find a way to manage their unmanageable boss.
Posted by: wj | June 19, 2017 at 04:24 PM