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October 27, 2016


I'm sorry, if you're voting for him you're endorsing him, Mr. Profile in Courage (stolen from hilzoy).

hell yeah, Ugh.

I'm more worried aobut voter suppression than I am violence. To me the real harm of Trump's false claims of voter fraud is that no one will believe reports of real voter suppression.

The main reason why I think it is essential to elect Democrats is to get judges that will protect voting rights. Otherwise the Republicans succeed in their goal to make us a banana republic with meaningless elections.

I just hope she doesn't get us in to deep in Syria.

Voter suppression? I got yer voter suppression right here.

Of course, it says something about the cutting edge derp that is the Trump campaign that they both think voter suppression is okay and then go on to describe (in the article) what they're doing as voter suppression that is not really voter suppression, ISTM. But hey, their words, not mine.

As he says, let's take this puppy national!

I don't want to live in interesting times. Why do humans make life so complicated and strife-ridden? I think that there is something genetic in our species that cannot tolerate contentment. There are so many people who just feel compelled to be power players in ways that are destructive to others and force others to fight back or be shat upon.

If you want to talk misogyny, and other related disgustingness, I posted this on the other thread but just in case anybody misses it:


I do believe if this was widely circulated, HRC would mop up any women who are still undecided.

Hey Pat - which way does that cut?

In Massachusetts, Election Day is usually a school holiday--they use it as a teacher training day, and the absence of classes means they can use classrooms as voting stations.

It does mean yet another headache for parents who have to arrange for some kind of alternate child care, but it's not exactly uncommon for the schools to close for holidays that most parents don't get (Veterans Day is another one, and that's in the same week this year). I suppose it encourages parents to take Election Day off if they can manage it. The kids don't get to see democracy in action unless their parents take them to vote.

Ugh, OK the sex ban stuff is funny, but I was mainly talking about the how you should beat wives and children part.

GFTNC - actually most of that story is made up. But not the part about beating children.

Thanks very much for this Ugh, I hate to have been so gullible and will keep in mind to check with snopes for future sensational claims. But I notice they only really debunk the reverse-lysistrata aspect, and don't seem to mention the part about beating wives. Perhaps that really is a part of fundamentalist Christian belief.

Newslo is maybe the most annoying of those "satire" sites that are really just spreading one unfunny hoax after another. Their hoaxes are particularly virulent because they're always built around a core of a true story, and the reveal provided by their "show facts" button goes away if somebody else just cuts and pastes the text.

let's take this [Kansas] puppy national!

I'm trying to picture a Republican governor, any Republican governor, looking at Brownback's popularity numbers and saying "Hey, I gotta get me some of this!" These guys may be nutty (at least from some perspectives), but they (mostly) aren't that crazy.

Interesting interview with Tony Schwartz (who wrote The Art of the Deal for Trump) on the BBC's Newsnight, claiming he has already made arrangements to leave the US (I have family in Amsterdam, and have already made the arrangements) should Trump wins, as he fears for his personal safety.

Q. "Can you think of any redeeming personal qualities he might have ?"

Norms and the GOP.


"Why do humans make life so complicated and strife-ridden?"

i blame coffee

Not Obama?

Obama made the coffee

Meanwhile, Bundy et al innocent of seizing federal property.

File under "jury nullification".

I guess I'm unclear on what a white man in a cowboy hat has to do to get jail time nowadays.

Maybe it's just me.

Maybe it's just me.

Not just you. Shocking, appalling. What's wrong with Portland? And this:

In a sign of the high tensions throughout the trial, Ammon Bundy’s lawyer, Marcus R. Mumford, was restrained by four United States Marshals in courtroom tussle after the verdict on Thursday. He was enraged that the Bundys were not being immediately released.


Obama made the coffee

he said it was Kona, but it was really Kenyan.

Clerk wins

Fucking. Autocorrect.

Clerk is my Christian name. it's cool.

Selective constitutional amendment love from the GOP.


An ad from North Carolina Republican Sen. Richard Burr on his Democratic opponent Deborah Ross features a survivor of sexual assault.

there are several of those ads. some are about gun control (don't let Ross take away your right to defend yourself from the sexual predators she wants to set free!), some are about her job at the ACLU (Ross thinks sexual predators should have more rights than their victims!), etc.. and they all run every 5 minutes. it's a deluge.



Well, at least there's this consolation:

Kirk currently trails Duckworth 38.3 percent to 47 percent, according to TPM’s PollTracker Average.

Meanwhile, we are getting deluged with Trump campaign ads -- yes, the campaign, not a PAC. (Since even they cannot believe they have any chance of taking California, this must be some kind of after-the-election positioning.) The ones which go on and on about all of the things that Clinton (according to them) has lied about.

I'm not sure if the poor production values are merely massive incompetence. Or if they are trying to send a subliminal message by having all of the imgaes of Clinton look so fuzzy and out of focus....

Kirk can claim he's being multicultural by extending the one drop rule to Asian Americans.

I mean, the man is a fncking United States Senator, from Illinois, god knows what kind of thoughts are running through the more southern GOP senators' heads.* And the GOP wonders why they can't attract minority voters.

*Or in their and their staff's emails....

it's Obama's fault. he didn't smile at Kirk that one time and now Kirk is overcome with racism economic anxiety.

As far as Congressional hearings go, I'm disappointed. I fully expected them to start the impeachment process as soon as possible.



this should be fun.

FBI re-opening Clinton email server investigation.


But Trump supporters don't like when snooty liberals say they're stupid. You just can't make this stuff up. And by "stuff," I mean the fact that people will believe the stuff that you can make up, no matter how ridiculous.

In fairness, I googled RealTrueNews and found that they also fooled some people at liberal sites, though not in the same way. No one believed the stories the way alt-right Trump supporters did, but they didn't realize it was a joke, satirizing bogus right-wing "news sources." They thought it was just another right-wing "news source."

Of course, people here have noted before that it's getting harder and harder to satirize what is an increasingly ridiculous reality. You can't turn up to 11 what is already at 11, so I guess it's forgivable that they didn't get the joke.

This won't matter ( I wouldn't think) in our election, but this is funny, given the current complaints of dastardly foreigners interfering in our elections--


That was the election Hamas won.

Technically, the word for them isn't "stupid." It's "gullible." Related, perhaps, but quite identical.

Bane memo + new FBI investigation = game changer?

Maybe. Trump is less a long shot today than two days ago.

In a different context, it might be a game changer. But at this point, there have been so many accusations against Clinton that a new one (even if it turns out to be one of the rare exceptions which actually has some substance behind it) isn't going to change many minds.

Those who have always been sure that she was an evil person will consider themselves vindicated (yet again). But they were never supporting her anyway.

Those who support her have reached the point of reflexively discounting the latest "game changing disaster" to come down the pike. That's the trouble with being totally indiscriminate in the accusations that you fling about: if you happen on something real, your credability is minimal.

For a real game changer, the latest e-mails would have to include something that would convince those who are voting for Clinton largely on an against-Trump basis to change. Given that the biggest negative is Trump's attitudes and behavior towards women, something seriously misogynistic from Clinton or her close staff might do work. But without that, I just can't see these doing much of anything in the time remaining.

as I read the piece, the FBI has as of yet neither re-opened the investigation, nor started a new one.

nonetheless, this will achieve (has already achieved) the cokie roberts status of being 'out there'.

i just want this election to be freaking over, so we can get on with the process of learning to live with either a flaming know-nothing asshole as POTUS, or 4 to 8 years of non-stop ankle-biting bullshit.

hard to say which would be worse.

Bane memo?

Douglas Bane wrote a 12 page memo that was hacked. It's problematic. Part of the Wikileaks thing.

Band, not Bane.

Technically, the word for them isn't "stupid." It's "gullible." Related, perhaps, but quite identical.

Hey, as the only person here who has been seriously gullible, albeit as a liberal, and in this very thread, I object!

Although I would like to state for the record, and no doubt some would call me stupid, that even if HRC is found to be guilty of some kind of wrongdoing or even criminality in the matter of the emails, I believe that she would still be a superior President to Trump, both for the US and the World.

Oh the "how I made Bill Clinton rich" memo. Got it.

This new thing seems to be emails between the two of them from Anthony Wiener and Huma Abedin's computers. Notwithstanding my completely partisan pro-HRC previous comment, this does look as if there may not be much to it.

It definitely looks to be in "seriously tacky, but nowhere near illegal" territory.

"It's problematic."

i hate to break it to you, but in context 'problematic' just ain't a thing.

a lot of people with money spend a lot of their money to get close to people with power.

we call that speech.

yes, i keep making the same point. because it continues to be true.

Hillary Clinton is not quite the Virgin Mary. Therefore she must be defeated.

He, Trump is not literally Beelzebub. Therefore He must be elected.

This is the logic I have heard from a now frighteningly large number of the otherwise-sane engineers I work with -- in suburban Boston! It worries me, because I have begun to lose respect for colleagues whose judgement I used to trust. (You might think I'd worry about them losing respect for me, but I have good reason NOT to worry about that.) Trump's birtherism is not a strike against him, for these people. Why should I need to see His tax returns, they ask. The Clinton Foundation spends 90% of its money on salaries, they mutter darkly. Well, if you believe we have to do something about global warming ... they trail off. It's a fair bet I won't be working with these particular people over all of the next four years, but even in The Commonwealth, God save it, I will still be living among them. Scary.


Based on the WaPo write-up is sounds like people paid a lot of money for access to Bill. Anything else in it? I will try to read the memo itself later.

My take is that the big deal is that the same guy who solicited donations to the Clinton Foundation also solicited for-profit gigs for Bill. That and that there was a bunch of money involved.

But I think it was a matter of record who donated to the foundation. I think it was also a matter of record how much income Bill received and from where.

What I don't think has surfaced is any actual mingling of foundation money and Bill's income. It would be one thing if money that was supposed to go to the foundation for charitable purposes went into Bill's pocket (or to buy a big ole portrait of him).

The other issue is whether or not anyone got undue consideration in Hillary's dealings in her official capacities (i.e. quid pro quo). I don't think that's been established either.

All in all, it just sounds like Bill's been a bit greedy about leveraging his name as a very popular former president.

Also it seems that the new emails are "not from Hillary" and not withheld by either State or the Clinton campaign.

And Comey is taking heat


If turns out to be a big nothing Comey needs to resign.

Well, it may be a big nothing. Who knows. But.

1. I'm tired of hearing about people doing what seems to be incredibly stupid stuff.

2. Even if it's a big nothing it's going to have an effect. Making it stupid regardless of whether it is or not.

it's going to have an effect. Making it stupid

Hillary Clinton did one stupid thing - she took the advice of some people who told her that a private server was the way to solve problems. Other people had done similar things (Colin Powell and lots of Executive Department people in the Bush administration who used an RNC server, where millions of emails were completely destroyed).

She stated that it was a mistake and apologized for it, and turned over most of the emails that were on it.

Get a grip. She did very little that is wrong, and this issue isn't some additional problem. She "mishandled" classified information? Is that the issue? Or did wikileaks not get enough dirt on her?

Noted leftist Norman Ornstein's twitter take on what Comey should have said:

What should Comey letter have said?1.obligated to write.2.Not emails fromClinton.3.Not from Wikileaks, Foundation.4.Dont draw inferences

Tweet from John Favreau:

"America, I'm terribly sorry my staffer shared a family laptop with her estranged husband."

Paul Ryan is an idiot.


I thought Comey acted like a partisan hack with his press conference a few months ago, and I now think Comey wasn't acting. He really is a partisan hack.

Like Paul Ryan, James Comey has unfairly acquired a reputation as a serious person because the punditocracy desperately needs to believe in Serious People on Both Sides.


From NBC news write up of the Band memo:

Hillary Clinton is not directly implicated, as she was serving as secretary of state at the time and not involved in the Foundation.


But more than Band's role, the memo will likely remain a political artifact for how it details Bill Clinton's willingness to accept business opportunities for himself.

The horror.

I thought Comey acted like a partisan hack with his press conference a few months ago, and I now think Comey wasn't acting. He really is a partisan hack.

Thank you.


Again, Comey should resign even if Josh's take is accurate.

There should be a rising tide of outrage demanding to see every email Comey ever sent or received on any device.

And what's with the Bundy, et.al aquittal? Payback for the O.J. verdict?

And what's with the Bundy, et.al aquittal? Payback for the O.J. verdict?

I've never been so scared for our country. Have to figure out where the Resistance is if things go from this to worse.

"I've never been so scared for our country."

The refusal of courts to hold Nazi brownshirts responsible for their criminal acts had some rather bad effects, I think.

Good thing that "It Can't Happen Here", or so I hear.

I'm trying to channel my inner conspiracy theorist. Do you suppose this latest Clinton email thing is a diabolical scheme . . . by the Clinton campaign?

Think about it. A notable feature of the last few days, campaign-wise, has been an absence of self-damaging comments and/or tweets from Trump. Could anything be better calculated to get Trump out of his shell than this? And the more the country sees of Trump, the worse he does.

Hey, it's no more ridiculous than most of the conspiracy theories out there.

He, Trump came far enough out of his shell to allow that maybe The System is less rigged than he thought. That might lend support to your theory, wj, except that you and I and the Clinton campaign know perfectly well that what He, Trump says today seldom correlates to what He will say tomorrow. The System will be rigged again soon enough.


Tony P:

Out of curiosity, how many of the engineers of which you speak are female? I'm prepared to make a guess ...

Mr Dr Science, BTW, has spoken to what may be the one (1) black Trump supporter in southeastern Pennsylvania. His reason? "Women aren't as good as men, everybody knows it. We should never have given them the vote."

I think you need to go Jim




Not sure how he continues to serve in a Clinton Administration


She did very little that is wrong, and this issue isn't some additional problem.

It may well not be a legal problem. It's certainly a political problem. And however little she may have done wrong legally, she has somehow permitted this whole email mess to dog her and dog her.

I admit I haven't followed the details here or earlier, but I do know that when stuff like that comes up the thing to do is get it over with. My impression - that's all it is - is that Clinton was way too slow in admitting the mistake and apologizing. And if that's right, then it was dumb.

I am hating this.

I admit I haven't followed the details here or earlier

Before you cast aspersions, you should read widely.

My impression - that's all it is - is that Clinton was way too slow in admitting the mistake and apologizing.

She did this a long time ago, and yesterday held a press conference asking that all of the emails be made public. There's no there there, never has been. The press needs a "both sides" story. Vince Foster, too.

byomtov, you might start your reading here.


Of course they're all men.

But to be fair, I have no idea whether any of the women in the company might be Trump supporters. I have not heard any of them pipe up one way or t'other.


actual voter fraud! elections are rigged!


i blame Obama.

Tony, if the women were Trump supporters, there would be no reason not to say so. But if they aren't, there are obvious incentives to avoid the topic. Especially if the guys talking up Trump are senior.

Before you cast aspersions...



The most senior people in the company include a Swedish immigrant, an Italian immigrant, and an Israeli immigrant. Oh, and not to forget the Iranian immigrant, who can't get over the similarities between He, Trump and Ahmadinejad. I have not heard them (except the last guy) express an opinion on the election, but they don't quite fit the profile of The Trump Voter. Of course, the lower-level engineers I was talking about don't quite fit the profile, either, so who knows?


It was a politically stupid decision at the time, and Comey's action yesterday, horribly wrong as it was, continues to demonstrate why it was politically stupid. It was an unforced error and self-inflicted wound and exactly the kind of thing that has a negative impact on low information voters, while feeding right into one of the primary issues voters have concerns about.

That Mayer's piece demonstrates Comey's incompetence and unfitness to further occupy his position has no bearing on the wisdom of Clinton's decision. I voted for her earlier today and believe she can, and hope she will, be a very good President. That she is also capable of this kind of mistake is maddening.

I admit I haven't followed the details here or earlier, but I do know that when stuff like that comes up the thing to do is get it over with.

You pretty much have the right of it. It was textbook Clintontonian tone-deafness: there is criticism of me, the media is repeating it, the media hates me so why should I care or take it seriously?

It was a politically stupid decision at the time,

Perhaps, but this was the first time in history anyone made an issue out of it. See Colin Powell, and see the Bush White House.

Yes, it was dumb, and it's maddening, but everyone does something dumb (even Obama, in appointing Jim Comey). Considering that most of the emails were turned over, and even hacked emails have been nothingburgers,I don't really see why we haven't moved on to the acceptance stage.

I have the distinct impression, across decades of observation, that those in powerful positions (in government and the private sector both) routinely put things in writing which leave me asking myself "What the hell were they thinking?!?!?" I guess they just live in a whole different world.

ugh: ...exactly the kind of thing that has a negative impact on low information voters, while feeding right into one of the primary issues voters have concerns about.


It's not clear that "the kind of thing" you're talking about is using a private email server in the first place, but let me pretend for a minute that's what you meant.

What I'd like to know is why Hillary's instinct to keep her emails private is more "politically stupid" -- as far as "low-information voters" are concerned -- than He, Trump's determination to keep his tax returns private.

Why does Hillary need to achieve perfection in order to be politically smart, while He, Trump merely has to avoid shooting somebody on 5th Avenue? I'm not asking you; I'm asking why you suppose it is that "voters" are inclined to think that way.


Why does Hillary need to achieve perfection in order to be politically smart, while He, Trump merely has to avoid shooting somebody on 5th Avenue?

Answer: Clinton rules.


As far as I can tell it's the whole "classified information" business. Further, Trump was able to put an end to things himself. He stomped his foot and said "no tax returns." Whatever the negative reaction to that, it passes. Clinton couldn't do that. She had the FBI, etc. to deal with, so it stayed in the news and was, rightly or not, a constant matter of discussion.

Imagine if it were public knowledge that the IRS was investigating Trump for outright tax fraud, and the issues involved were generally known.

I think that would be comparable.


I'm familiar with the criticisms of Comey's actions, and they seem valid to me. My points relate to the longer history of the whole email business.

Like Sanders, I've had enough of it.

Like Sanders, I've had enough of it.

We all have. Tell the Republicans "enough already."


Republicans don't matter in this case: "enough already" is ultimately an appeal to a sense of shame, and Republicans of the Trump-supporting variety don't have any.

Tell Democrats "enough already" Enough with kowtowing to the notion that our candidate has to be above suspicion by the other side. Enough with tolerating the mindless conflation between "classified information" and national security.

AND: enough with pretending that "serious", "moderate" Republicans exist in Washington. It's easily arguable that the serious, moderate Sandra Day O'Connor single-handedly foisted Dick and Dubya on this country, and it will be hard to argue that the serious, moderate James Comey did NOT single-handedly foist He, Trump on this country, should that calamity come to pass.


My position when Obama appointed Comey, as well as Gates. We're there no qualified democrats?


Thanks for putting it in proper perspective, Tony P.

That assumes the "enough already" arguments are appeals to shame. If they're "this is such a bore", well, they'll definitely have an impact on both sides' apparatchiks, as well as the excluded political middle.

"Whatever the negative reaction to that, it passes. Clinton couldn't do that. "

IMO, there is no response that Clinton could make, to any allegation, in any context, that would deflect her political enemies from pursuing any and every possible or even impossible hint of wrongdoing to the absolute bitter end.

It's like they've contracted some kind of freaking political rabies.

People hate her. I don't know why, they just do, It's a freaking mania.

If she responds, she's clearly being defensive. If she tries to blow it off, she's hiding something. If she complains about harrassment, she's being paranoid and a poor sport.

The bar for Clinton is insanely high, and there is nothing whatsoever that can do or say that will satisfy her critics.

It's an obsession. Apparently, she's learned to live with it.

"Imagine if it were public knowledge that the IRS was investigating Trump for outright tax fraud, and the issues involved were generally known."

For the record, Trump is under active investigation for a number of reasons, including using funds from his non-profit foundation to settle personal lawsuits.

Which among other things is a violation of the tax code.

It's perfectly well known.

Nobody gives a crap.

under active investigation for a number of reasons,

Can't wait to find out what the Putin connection is. Obviously, it's of some, but limited, interest to the news media. Not nearly as exciting as the nothingburger emails that the Putin people hacked.

People hate her. I don't know why, they just do

It's not like there's a mystery here. When she got given a policy portfolio (health care) in the first Clinton administration, she became a threat. Not only in her own right, but symbolically. If she had succeeded, it would have been a thousand times worse. So she had to be stopped at all costs.

Of course, if she wins the Presidency, that's an even bigger threat. And God forbid she should have a successful administration. "Great and frightening changes" doesn't begin to describe how that is seen.

Granted it's pathetic that so many people are threatened by the mere chance that she (or any other woman) might succeed. Or even just not fail spectacularly. But that doesn't change the reality of how they see the world.

The crap that is going to come out about the behind the scenes of the Trump campaign after the election will be unbelievable. You can't run a ship with that many rats and not have them eat each other once it's clear the ship is irretrievably sinking. Comey has just delayed the cannibalism by a few days.

"Granted it's pathetic that so many people are threatened by the mere chance that she (or any other woman) might succeed."

Once again wj is blaming the fact that she is a woman for people not liking her. Just like you can't not like Obama unless you're a racist.

"Oh well, its obvious...." There are lots of reasons from her policies to her temperament to her basic lack of conscience to not like her. Not one of those has to do with the fact she is a woman. People don't like her because she is a criminal and a liar. Just because lots of people don't care that she is a criminal and a liar doesn't change those facts. And before you start, she is a criminal who is a good enough liar to not yet get convicted.

I am threatened, by the predictable outcome of her election. My ACA just went up 125%, they don't cover any of my doctors and no insurance company will talk to me unless I go through the exchange. So what's the fix? Well f'cking single payer of course, the plan all along. They don't just lie to get elected, they lie about anything they please, sometimes just by habit.

Everyone complains about Bush not having a plan for what to do after we took Iraq, lets talk about what the Democrats plan is now that the ACA is an unmitigated disaster crumbling under the weight of lies and mis set expectations.

Just what we need, a supporter of killing children days away from being born, but that's not inconsistent with sending kids to die in wars for no purpose, but taking away anyone's ability to defend themselves while expanding the nanny state and solidifying the dictatorial Presidency.

And none of those have anything to do with what a liar and failed public servant she is. I disliked her immensely and the last straw was when she sat in front of Congress and told them what she had done wasn't worth her time to explain so everyone should just "move on". Now I hate her. Her emails are just a reflection of the despicable person she is, confirming what everyone has said about her.

And not one of those has to do with what sex she is.

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