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September 23, 2016


I think it is quite debatable, whether the term debate will properly apply to what we* are going to see there.
Btw, will we hear claims soon that there were no n-words in the US of A before that Kenny Yen usurped the seat in the spot clean Wash-ink-tone house that the limeys once burned down just because they disapproved of the liberation of Can-a-duh?

*this won't include me since a) I am not a US citizen b) not in possession of a TV set (let alone one with access to US pay tv) and c) not that kind of masochist.
I'll do with the anal-ysis the day after.

It's all about self-segregation these days Hartmut.

The use of "debate" for these events is just another of the marketing ploys to which we have been subjected for the last half century (or more).

Originally, someone thought it would be great to pretend that these things were reminiscent of the Lincoln-Douglas debates of the mid-1800s. Even though they are nothing like them, beyond featuring two opposing politicians and an audience.

By now, we have a couple of generations who have little clue what a real debate might be. Or, I suppose you could argue that the language has evolved. In shich case, we probably need a new term for what a real debate is....

First we have to de-bait the whole thing then we can think about giving it some actual bite.


The media is a Trump reality show. If, in last week's episode, the survivors on the island succumb to shark attacks and the ratings rise because of the blood turning the surf red, then by all means this week's episode will feature land sharks snapping at the buxom coeds as they order drinks at the swimming pool cabana.

Then, by all means we will get more bombings and police violence organized by the subhuman Republican Party on behalf of Donald Trump, between now and election day, with much worse afterwards.

Business men repeat what works. They are practical c*cks*ckers that way.

When the violence starts, the media will be taken out too. Since ISIS wants Trump/Repubublicans to win, he has them at his back to terrorize the fuck American people into voting for him.

With a professor like Glenn Reynolds on a campus, it does make one sympathetic to the idea that politically correct minorities and liberals should be permitted to carry military-grade weaponry on their persons on campus to engage in self-defense when he makes a false move toward a lectern.

I do hope the rest of the world is getting their nuclear arsenals ready and willing to coordinate with each other, because this joke needs to be put out of its misery.

I have been observing something interesting. As everybody is aware, California is not a state where there is any doubt about the outcome of the election. Especially the part of northern California that is my local media market. But nevertheless, we have been treated to a series of Clinton ads these past few weeks.

First, there were the ads which basically featured clips of Trump being Trump. More recently, there are ads featuring a series of prominent Republicans denouncing Trump and his (lack of) fitness to be President.

Pretty clearly, these aren't intended to make an (unnecessary) difference in the vote in November. But it occurs to me is that perhaps what I am seeing is test marketing of ads destined for other states. That is, they run the ads here, measure their impact on various demographics that are important elsewhere, and so decide which ones to take national.

Is anyone else, especially in other media markets where the outcome is not in doubt, seeing the same thing? Not just in safe blue states, but in safe red ones -- where the results might be more visible, thanks to a larger pool in which to see the results.

I'm sure this is the Democrats' fault for rejecting Robert Bork and his Mordor-based jurisprudence.

Baldfaced lies and slander. It's the Democrat's fault for not nominating Jeb Bush after he dropped out of the Republican primary.

Say what you will about Jeb!, this was pretty good.

Might need to release that video Charlotte.

I hereby take back 17.5% of all the nasty things I've ever said about Jeb!


And, now ALL of the vermin are in place now:


Speaking of vermin...

Is the mask coming off, or is this just a genetic throwback after the punctuated equilibrium of 1964?

I'm leaning towards another strain of Punc-E.

From a comment in your link:

The alt-right has really brought out a lot of open ugliness among younger Americans, too. As a younger white male millennial I’ve had to cut off a number of friends and acquaintances over the last few years as people around me come out of the woodwork as racists, sexists, homophobes, etc.

Granted there had been a slow trickle of “suburban white kid reveals himself as racist, film at 11” essentially since Obama took office but it has really accelerated in the last couple of years as the memes and internet subcultures have penetrated the mainstream.

Breitbart/chan culture/etc. have done a hell of a job inculcating the next generation of white supremacists. It’s all masked in layers of irony and “just joking!!!!!” and edge and provocation and shock value, but then all of a sudden, it isn’t.

This is a pitch-perfect description of so much of the regressive political awakening I've seen over the last 5-6 years. It's so spot-on I want to cry, scream, or maybe be sick.

As a younger white male millennial I’ve had to cut off a number of friends and acquaintances over the last few years

Isn't that kind of a capsule summary of our increasing self-segregation and epistemic closure these past few years? Rather than maintain some kind of relationship with those who disagree with us, and perhaps even try to build the sorts of bridges which might lead to lessening of the attitudes we oppose, too many of us just walk away. Don't talk to them, don't listen to them, just cut them off like they don't exist.

It's as if we believe, deep down, that if we just ignore the uglyness, it will go away of its own accord. Which is true only if "away" is defined as "away from me personally" rather than "away from the world." Which leaves those who, for one reason or another, cannot retreat away from it rather in the lurch.

Isn't that kind of a capsule summary of our increasing self-segregation and epistemic closure these past few years?

Just like 1840 - 1861 !!!

Duck. And. Cover.

This, via Hilzoy's FB, is worth a look


wj, it's absolutely a reflection of that. And I agree it's thoroughly problematic. It's also really damned common, though, and one of the big reasons it seems to be common is because there is a reduced sense of obligation towards civility - and as a result, it's harder and less rewarding to stay in touch with people who routinely stereotype and demonize you. I personally tend to do so (politically and culturally I can manage to be a minority of one in far too many contexts for me to be choosy in these regards), but I know very well that many people (particularly the younger generation) don't. I see it with family, I see it with friends.

This is not wholly irrelevant to the discussion in the other thread ATM...

Ted Cruz endorses Trump! Fraud.

This weekend's prize for best headline goes to New York Magazine for Most Americans See Trump As a Racist Madman — Some Just Like That in a President

I don't agree with the implication that this describes most Trump supporters. But can I admire the turn of phrase anyway.

Thanks for the Hilzoy article, lj.
It reinforces my feeling that Clinton is potentially a very good President (with a caveat about the speed with which she responds to rapidly evolving circumstances), but is really bad at campaigning.
The anecdote about her college tuition plan was painful.

Trump would be the least suitable and least prepared President is a very long time indeed. Even setting aside his racism.

Then they came for the clowns ?

Nigel (and any other UK dwellers e.g. novakant, sanbikinoraion etc and also Hartmut), are you going to be staying up and watching the debate on Tuesday a.m. live? I think I'm going to have to, despite having a slightly hellish next day.....

From the clown link:

"Police have warned individuals against dressing up in clown costumes, adding it could lead to criminal charges."

"Dressing as a clown and driving, walking or standing in public can create a dangerous situation for you and others," police in nearby Barbourville, Kentucky, said in a statement online.

"While dressing up is not, in and of itself against the law, doing so in public and thereby creating an unnecessary sense of alarm is illegal."

What say our anti-regulatory, small government friends on the Right about this institutionalized harassment of clowns by law enforcement?

I'm a little surprised a state like South Carolina would crack down on clowns like this, given the high clown-to-normal humans ratios among their population.

How are clowns supposed to get to their jobs wearing their clown business suits? Should they be shot on sight for adhering to the clown dress code, which is required by their profession?

By whom? Well, other clowns, I guess, who wear weaponry in public with the full approval of the authorities.

THOSE clowns' choice of attire doesn't seem to cause any alarm or panic among the public, but a guy wearing floppy shoes, a flower that squirts water, and face paint is a threat? You'd think clowns were all unarmed black men with their hands up.

Can we get some clown ordinances passed toute suite in Washington D.C. to head off the Trump clown posses heading that way? Can we gun them down in the streets in self-defense, the millions of them, as they pile out of the pile car, Trump at the lead.

May I just fucking kill them to prevent them from governing while beclowning themselves and the country?

Here's a clown that thinks we should do nothing because the sun is expanding anyway, so what's the use of keeping Medicare viable or any other goddamed thing:


I don't want to shoot him out of a cannon. I want to shoot him with a cannon.

They would pile out of the "clown" car, not the "pile" car, though I suspect Trump has piles of the mouth, if we ever get to see his medical records.

That condition is easily cured by hails of gunfire.

Count, the proper term is blowing from a gun:
Unfortunately Vereshchagin is not available anymore to paint the event; Trump loves high quality paintings of himself.

GftNC, see second paragraph of the opening comment of this thread.

Hartmut - of course. What with skipping between the two threads, I'd forgotten that. I know what you mean about the masochism though, I am already and will be filled with fear and loathing, and that alone could stop me watching in real time.


Hartmut: As George Carlin might observe, and Donald Trump would agree, not getting the joke, those people in the good ole days really knew how to kill a guy.

GFTNC, no way.
Sleep deprivation coupled with the torture of not being able to fast forward... and that I suffer from a kind of mania in having to know how a story finishes, so I couldn't just turn off & go to sleep (disclosure, I actually had to finish The Da Vinci Code, something which left me with a feeling of self loathing for weeks)... I'll read about it the following morning.

Count, I am well aware you were referring to the classic circus stunt.
It just happened that I am currently reading about stuff connected to the Sepoy revolt and am also an admirer of the mentioned Russian painter. His Apotheosis of War served as my (computer screen) wallpaper at times.

Ted Cruz's latest beshitting of himself brings to mind these lines from e.e. cummings' "i sing of olaf glad and big"

"Olaf, (upon what once were his knees)
does almost ceaselessly repeat
'there is some shit I will not eat'

That is to say, the poem doesn't remind me of Ted Cruz at all.

It is kind of amusing that a guy who built his brand on fighting the establishment now apparently feels he has to genuflect before his party's nominee.

Will his brand ever recover? I'm guessing not. At least not easily.


I have a one year old, a job, only mobile data, and am an extra time zone away in Germany so I'll give it a miss. I tried watching that Between Two Ferns with Clinton on it and that was insufferable enough I had to stop after a few minutes. Watching the debate is just going to make me sad that people like Trump exist at all.

My prediction, for what it's worth, is that Trump will aim for "presidential" and be measured and polite and vacuous, and the media will score it as a win for him on the grounds that he failed to insult any large minority group. Trump has the rabid ones already, he needs to give cover to the more moderate of the white stupid working class men who are surely the only demographic anywhere near his corner, and a boring faux-policy debate will get switched off by his biggest fans anyway. If Trump does Trump, he loses the election, and someone he has hired recently is smart enough to know that, even if he doesn't.

Hartmut, Nigel, Sanbikinoraion: Thanks for replying. I'm still thinking I won't be able to *not* watch, but at the same time I'm dreading it. I was sort of hoping for some kind of real-time fellow-feeling, but then again I've never understood the concept of live-blogging an event; it seems to me you can do one thing or the other, but not both at the same time. I guess this shows how old-fashioned and analogue I am.....also how drunk I am at the moment, so please disregard anything that doesn't make sense...

What sanbikinoraion said, with the addition that Trump will also use the debate to accuse Clinton of all his worst faults.

The main problem with live blogging the event is that being drunk enough to avoid smashing the TV isn't conducive to typing.

i can't imagine wanting to sit through 90 minutes of Trump's free-form belligerent truthlessness.

I'm having some friends over. And there will be beer.

Can't imagine watching this at all. Even at their best American presidential debates are sort of silly. The "winner" is just the person who scores the better zingers or isn't sweaty or is declared the winner by enough spinmeisters later on that it becomes accepted truth. I read someplace that in Gore's debate the initial polling reaction was that Gore won, but within a few days of stories about his sighing that impression changed. I don't know if that's true, but it sounds plausible.

I read someplace that in Gore's debate the initial polling reaction was that Gore won, but within a few days of stories about his sighing that impression changed.



The only way I ever plan on watching Donald Trump again is through a high magnification gun sight, so no debate for me tonight.

Not ruling out beer however.

More Republican vermin in Nazi regalia. Shouldn't we be on the lookout at all times for these cold blooded, Republican, murderous filth and profiling them to the authorities:


Here's another Republican fascist who I expect is wearing Nazi underpants:


He looks like a guy who would wear a bullet in the head well.

The way the polls are looking, Obamacare and Medicaid recipients, at the very least, need to hurry and become heavily armed to defend themselves against those Republican fucks who have pledged to kill them early next year.

The 48th soviet of Washington strikes again!

See? No drone strikes necessary! :)

Here's my concept of a vote swap I've arranged with a Trump-lover I know:

If Donald Trump refuses to murder Obamacare and Medicaid recipients, or backtracks whatsoever on his pledge to deport children to certain death and privation, or takes back his pledge to not defend Latvia in the event of his buddy Putin invading the place, or calls off his Republican assault dogs who beat the shit out of unarmed Americans at his rallies any time between now and the election, he'll vote for Gary Johnson who actually will do all of those things because the sun is expanding and will explode at any moment.

In exchange, if Hillary Clinton so much as reveals via the lie lines around her eyes between now and November 9 that, of elected, she will begin bombing, murdering, mutilating, and starving Americans on American soil in much the same way the Obama Administration is helping Saudi Arabia bomb, murder, mutilate, and starve the Yemeni people, I will vote for Jill Stein.

Then the two of us will live highmindedly and happily hereafter the rest of our lives in pointless irrelevance, free of all responsibility for whatever transpires.

Frankly, I expect he's going to vote for Trump because the latter tells the absolute truth about his intentions at all times and will not compromise in pursuing the deaths of all of his enemies, while I will end up voting for Clinton because, let's face it, she lies only 89% of the time.

Really, it is a matter of how good the football game is. I could swap over at the commercials.

It's Scalia's new professionalism in Policing at work.

Well, the key to that conundrum is removing all requirements for qualifications, training, and competency from the barbering and hairdressing professions, and what the heck, attorneys and doctors too, so that they are as free from government regulation as police officers are.

Read your Milton Friedman and you will see that he had no qualifications either and managed to go far in the annals of screwing things up.

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