Gun safety

by Doctor Science

Unless you were blessedly offline yesterday, you probably saw Jeb! Bush's tweet:

Image of tweet in context from Betty Cracker of Balloon Juice

which became an instant meme. As someone who has never held a gun, I have some questions for those of you with actual knowledge.

Via commenters at Balloon Juice, I learned this is a FNX-40 that Bush received as a gift when he spoke at the factory in SC on Tuesday.

I also learned that that red dot means the safety is off.

My question is, what's the significance of the safety being off? Does this strike you as, well, striking, or is it no big deal? Does it seem plausible to you that the gun has a round in the chamber, or not? Does it reflect anything about Jeb!'s familiarity and/or competence with firearms, or not?

And while we're at it, is there any way for Jim Wright's proposal to make the NRA's gun safety rules into law to fly? Could it be done on a state-by-state basis, do you think?

Comments

[wj]

I confess that I haven't fired a gun in decades. (Air Force officers are required to qualify annually. But active duty was quite a while ago.) Still it seems to me that you should never take the safety off unless you are actually preparing to fire. Certainly not when you are just leaving the gun sitting out for a photo-op.

But then, I took the NRA gun training course back junior high. Back in the ancient days when gun safety was their priority, not gun sales. It colored my attitude, I guess.

[Ugh]

I'm very sorry you lost your first race for FL governor Jeb and thus your chance to be the GOP nominee in 2000 instead of your older and (it turns out somehow) wiser (not a high bar there and you couldn't get over it) brother.

But, please go away now, thanks.

[Ugh]

I think the only way to enact the NRA's rules into law is to construct tort liability around them. That is, if you leave a loaded gun around and someone is later harmed by the gun you are liable, period.

That is, make clearer the negligence rules as applied to guns, which in theory really shouldn't be necessary. For example, if your gun "accidentally" goes off because you didn't have the safety on and harm ensues you should already be liable for that harm under the regular negligence rules, but maybe they need more spelling out.

Perhaps criminal sentences for "involuntary shootings" akin to "involuntary manslaughter" and what have you.

But, YOU REALLY WANT TO CONFISCATE ALL OUR GUNS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!!* So good luck with all that.

*Which I, Ugh, do, but I'm not in charge. Yet.

[Snarki, child of Loki]

Ugh: "accidentally" or "negligently" shooting someone should mean that the person shot (if they survive), next of kin, or close friend, gets to shoot the person responsible.

Not so accidentally. Execution-style, if that's what they want, shotgun in the gut if they're really pissed off.

It's fully 2nd-Amendment friendly, and is guaranteed to result in MUCH more attention given to gun safety.

If I get shot, I designate Count to extract the appropriate weregild or retribution

[heckblazer]

The safety is indeed off, but the indicator looks like it shows that the chamber is empty. FN has the gun's manual online as a .PDF.

[Nigel]

You have to admit "America" is the perfect comment to attach - though perhaps not in quite the way Jeb!* intended.

* Where's his exclamation mark on the gun ? Curious.

[Hartmut]

The NRA would fight tooth and nails against making those rules law. Period.

[Adam Rosenthal]

It's obvious where this goes now. Jeb's gonna go postal at the next debate and shoot Trump. After a moment of stunned silence, he'll murmur, "Please clap" and turn the gun on himself.

Then Cruz flees the stage, Carson performs live brain surgery and get a decent polling bump, while Rubio, in shock, goes into a Let's-dispel-with loop from which he never emerges, even during his eight-year presidency. Kasich, not to be outdone, launches into an impromptu torch song called FNX Fordee Memories.

It's the logical next place for this primary season to go. The perfect reality TV moment.

"Mr Bush's neighbours described him as a 'quiet, low-energy guy'..."

[Countme-In]

That's hilarious! Especially Kasich going all Mel Torme.

[Doctor Science]

heckblazer:

I can't get to that page, their site appears to have crashed (probably due to too much traffic as a result of Bush's tweet). What in the image is the "indicator"?

Jim Wright says:

The safety is off because there's no round in the chamber and the hammer is down. The safety CAN'T be engaged.

And yet experienced firearms users tell me "Rule One is never assume the chamber is empty, always check" so I am confused.

Is this a new safety feature?

[byomtov]

The safety is off because there's no round in the chamber and the hammer is down. The safety CAN'T be engaged.

Granting this, since I certainly don't know enough to doubt it, it seems like an exceptionally poor design. Shouldn't it be considered dangerous to handle the gun with the safety off, if you have no intent to shoot? Yet here it becomes impossible to put it on, which strikes me as encouraging carelessness.

[Marty]

The manual doesn't really corroborate what Jim Wright says. I cant tell from the angle if the weapon is in the "decocked" position so it's not clear whether the gun is "safe". All that said, it is also not clear where the picture was taken, whether the gun has EVER been loaded, whether Jeb or one of the thousand minions took the gun as handed to them at the factory and just took a picture, whether someone just before putting it down had verified the chamber was empty.

My point is the picture doesn't say much, certainly not about Jeb's familiarity with gun safety. Much ado about nothing.

[hairshirthedonist]

The picture is of a handgun and the text of the tweet reads, "America." Whether or not is says anything about Jeb's familiarity with gun safety, it says quite a bit, particularly coming from a presidential candidate. At the very least, it's fncking weird and ham-fisted.

[Countme-In]

Do what I do. If you can't remember whether the thing is loaded or the mechanism and infernal order of how it is supposed to work, shut one eye and with the other look directly down the business end of the barrel and see if you can detect a bullet in there.

Or, take it outside and with both hands aim it off in any direction while looking away with your eyes shut and your mouth screwed up and your head kind of retracted into your neck, to be ready for the noise of the thing firing. Pull the trigger.

If you're not sure if the weapon is loaded, you could also leave it out where the kids might find it, preferable when you are not home, and they'll get the hang of it immediately by shattering Aunt Mini's heirloom vase which sat across the room just above sis's bassinet.

It's just like when you can't figure out how smart your smart phone is or what the silly fatal message is on your PC. The kids just peck away for a moment and Bob, unless you've already shot him as he staggered in one late night without announcing himself, is your uncle.

You can pick up these helpful safety tips on just about any old day in your local rag under the police blotter.

"All that said, it is also not clear where the picture was taken, whether the gun has EVER been loaded, whether Jeb or one of the thousand minions took the gun as handed to them at the factory and just took a picture, whether someone just before putting it down had verified the chamber was empty."

I've read that women on dating sites experience the same uncertainty and ambiguity when receiving disembodied dic-pics.

It's not clear either who appended the text "America" to the tweet, but we can be sure it wasn't Clinton or Sanders.

Size matters.

[Countme-In]

I see Jeb's name was engraved on the shooty-tubey thingy that the bullet goes through.

I wonder if his name is on each of the bullets that came with the gun. It seems to me, if anyone has watched just about any western or gangster shoot-em-up movie, that might be frowned upon by the Secret Service.

All of my bullets have Grover Norquist's name on them.

Mistake identity, I guess.

[Snarki, child of Loki]

So it seems that the other candidates have been successful enough that the "Jeb Bush" thing just lies there, un-cocked.

Apropos, somehow.

[Countme-In]

This raises a question.

If the political candidates are now carrying weapons on their persons, shouldn't the Secret Service instead be protecting their opponents or the people who will vote against them?

[cleek]

the Secret Service now just provides cover while the principle takes lead.

[Countme-In]

What would happen if I was up against the velvet rope trying to get a handshake/selfie from/with Jeb or any other candidate and his coat sort of fell open and I noticed a firearm and yelled hysterically "DUCK EVERYONE, DEAR GOD, HE'S GOT A GUN!!"

Who would the Secret Service take down or fire on, or am I taking it too much to heart that American is now a completely full-of-sh*t enterprise.

[russell]

My point is the picture doesn't say much, certainly not about Jeb's familiarity with gun safety. Much ado about nothing.

What it says is that Jeb believes he can get a bump in his numbers as a candidate for POTUS if he publishes a picture of a gun with his name on it and titles it "America".

In other words, what hairshirt said.

[hairshirthedonist]

shooty-tubey thingy

I only copied and pasted this because I thought it needed to be on the thread at least twice.

[Ugh]

What would happen if I was up against the velvet rope trying to get a handshake/selfie from/with Jeb or any other candidate and his coat sort of fell open and I noticed a firearm and yelled hysterically "DUCK EVERYONE, DEAR GOD, HE'S GOT A GUN!!"

I'd help you make bail.

[Countme-In]

If I'm attending a Donald Trump rally, say, right up front, and FogHorn Leghorn himself, the Donald, braggadocios from the lectern that he carries a weapon at all times, including at that very moment, in case anyone wants to f*ck with him, and I shout out enthusiastically "So do I, numbnuts, so we're even!", what transpires?

And which one of us gets his picture in the "Second Amendment Hero-of-the-Month" column in the NRA's Batsh*t Gazette?

[Marty]

Barrel def. - shooty-tubey thingy. I think this is in the new American dictionary.

[Marty]

I can envision the photoshopped pic of you and the Donald sharing the cover of the NRA newsletter big smiles pointing your guns at each other. Maybe a weapon too.

[Countme-In]

I'd advise the photographer to use a wide-angle lens ....

..... pause ....

....... just to get the Donald's entire head in the picture.

[hairshirthedonist]

Barrel def. - shooty-tubey thingy. I think this is in the new American dictionary.

Cromulent technical terminology embiggens knowledge.

[Lurker]

Where I come from, tweeting a pic like that with that kind of caption would probably get you a personal visit from the police. A patrol would come to talk and to see if you are so dangerous that the police should confiscate your guns. That kind of tweet is usually interpreted as a signal "I'm gonna shoot myself" or"I'm gonna go ona shooting spree." You would need to do some serious talking to convince the policeabout your sanity.

[Doctor Science]

Lurker:

Now I *really* want to be where you come from. omg America, WHY?!

[Lurker]

Dr. Science,

we learned the hard way. It took two school shootings for us to learn our lesson. Now, in practice, it is very difficult to get a handgun, and almost impossible to get any kind gun at all if you are a single male below 30 or so. However, if you are a man with a job and a family, a licensed hunter and apply for a rifle or a shotgun permit, the new, stricter legislation isn't really a problem.

When I got a gun for hunting, the interview with the police was really interesting. The detective sergeant was polite but his questions and technique were good. First he let me talk about my family, job and hobbies for a while. (Being an actively drilling reservist seemed to a plus.) Then the officer checked very thoroughly whether I knew the local shooting ranges and understood what kind of game the gun I was applying for was meant to kill, but there was a much more important question: does your wife approve of you getting a gun?

Previously, you could get a gun permit essentially on a shall-issue basis. The police could deny a permit only if you had problems with a background check.

The new approach has worked pretty well. There hasn't been a massacre for eight years and the amount of legal guns used in crimes is pretty low.

[Countme-In]

As Jeb Trump might twit: AMERICA!

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/protest-mosque-event-refugees-texas

[Countme-In]

America! The Home of Slapstick!

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/dayton-ohio-pastor-killed-pulpit

[Countme-In]

So, I'm reading Daily Kos, and there is this paragraph:

"David Waldman brings the super to Tuesday with today’s KITM: Donald Trump picks up the Louis Farrakhan endorsement, pretty much sewing up the race. Greg Dworkin shows us where this is all going: Does Trump have the nomination sewed up? The election? Or will it be #NeverTrump? Seriously, will there be enough anti-Trump voters that will stick to their principals to not vote anti-Clinton to matter? And say they they do “come apart”, how will that keep the Gop from still winning the election? An imploded party will certainly eventually win if they are the ones that are going out to vote. There are definitely enough morons around ready to vote Trump in, you know. Why isn’t Bernie Sanders expanding the electorate? Why don’t black voters Feel the Bern? Do Democrats even care about big ideas anymore… But really, isn’t a lot of this mess some of you dumbasses’​ fault? Melissa Harris-Perry would have been helpful right about now. A woman is in critical condition after a swimming pool hurtles 1500 feet and is lodged in her neck. Correction: not a swimming pool, a bullet. Another guy is “self-inflicted”, by an “unintentional discharge” that accidentally got him shot, “apparently”. NH paper realizes Chris Christie is Donald Trump’s Renfield, and retracts their endorsement. Did you know Dick Cheney may have been an authoritarian sociopath? Good luck to David Waldman, going off to vote now, a right not necessarily guaranteed."

The link: http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/3/2/1494243/-Daily-Kos-Radio-is-LIVE-at-9-AM-ET

Notice the sentences: "A woman is in critical condition after a swimming pool hurtles 1500 feet and is lodged in her neck. Correction: not a swimming pool, a bullet."

Someone, I don't know who, has been reading the OBWI comment threads, specifically lifting McTX's reference on another comment thread to the notorious deadliness of swimming pools, among other accoutrements of modern living, to the population, and my (our) subsequent riffing on said deadliness in compared to the paltry contribution guns lend to the national organ transplant registry.

On behalf of McTX, I take this borrowing as a compliment to all of us for our lively, trenchant, hilarious discussions at OBWI.

[Countme-In]

I'll be on the lookout for tractor references as well across the blogospherical palaver swamps, in short, as Micawber might opine, elsewhere ..... because that kept me going for two days.

[Ugh]

Nothing to see here as the same thing happens when taking selfies with swimming pools, electrical outlets, steak knives, and gas ovens.....

[cleek]

i suppose, since "leady" isn't a word, irony will have to do.