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April 27, 2015


transcript 1: http://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcripts/14-556q1_11o2.pdf

transcript 2: http://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcripts/14-556q2_f2ah.pdf

the quote in question appears in T #1, page 21-22

You're you're quite right that the consequences of waiting are not neutral. On the other hand, one of the things that's truly extraordinary about this whole issue is how quickly has been the acceptance of your position across broad elements of society. I don't know what the latest opinion polls show.

The situation in Maine, I think, is is characteristic. In 2009, I guess it was by referendum or whatever, they banned gay marriage. In 2012, they enacted it as law. I mean, that sort of quick change has been a characteristic of this debate, but if you prevail here, there will be no more debate. I mean, closing the debate can close minds, and and it will have a consequence on how this new institution is is accepted. People feel very differently about something if they have a chance to vote on it than if it's imposed on them by by the courts.

it's a PITA to copy quotes for that stuff, so you'll have to look for yourself if you want more.

I apologize for shifting gears here, but since it's an open thread and we had a lively discussion on recent events in Baltimore, largely involving race, this might be a good read about now.

It looks spot on to me, accutately describing what I've experienced in talking to people, regardless of "which side" of the discussion I've been on.

That was a good read, HSH. Thanks.

Lemieux is very good, but he's probably overstating Roberts' thinking on this. I seriously doubt he'll right or join an opinion that would uphold the same-sex marriage bans because "let's let the people decide!"

It reads more like "what do you think of this?" But I haven't reviewed the whole transcript.

It reads more like "what do you think of this?" But I haven't reviewed the whole transcript.

That was my take as well, but I'm not inside his head.

Lemieux is very good, but he's probably overstating Roberts' thinking on this

My take is Lemieux is simply stating his astonishment at the author of Shelby County uttering this errant nonsense, nonsense that is totally at odds with the Shelby ruling, i.e., a bad case of WTF are you talking about?

On rioting: More here.

Green's arrest has been found to be illegal, and six officers have been charged.

Charges range from assault to 2nd degree murder.

Assuming it's not just a case of throwing some scapegoats to the mob, that would be a very refreshing case of police accountability. I'm guessing we'll be getting enough details in the coming months to figure out which it is.

Quoting Turbulence (emphasis mine):

I think most people go out to protest for the best of reasons, because they're enraged that 4 cops basically decapitated a guy (seriously, how do you even do that?!) for no reason and will face no punishment.

He may turn out to be wrong about that very last part, but the bolded part seems to be at the heart of the matter.

In Baltimore, they call it a “rough ride.” In Philadelphia, they had another name for it that hints at the age of the practice — a “nickel ride,” a reference to old-time amusement park rides that cost five cents. Other cities called them joy rides.

The slang terms mask a dark tradition of police misconduct in which suspects, seated or lying face down and in handcuffs in the back of a police wagon, are jolted and battered by an intentionally rough and bumpy ride that can do as much damage as a police baton without an officer having to administer a blow.

Freddie Gray’s Injury and the Police ‘Rough Ride’

At this point I'd just remind you how many people were convinced that Darryl Wilson was a murderer. I'll wait on the evidence.

But what I have heard certainly doesn't sound good.

Set aside, for a moment, the facts of what happened in the Baltimore police van. The situation has to be made worse by the fact that the "switchblade" which occasioned the arrest in the first place was, in the opinion of the District Attorney, not a switchblade at all but a perfectly legal knife.

So start with a false arrest. From there, anything at all which happens to the arrestee is only going to be magnified.

I'm sure that once all the facts come out Mr. Gray will have done something "wrong" enough, even illegal, which will be enough for more than half the country to basically wash their hands of the case and conclude he "deserved it" or "shouldn't have been doing that and now look what happened."

Heck, simply seeing cops and running is probably enough - he must have done something wrong and what did he expect?

In Philadelphia, they had another name for it that hints at the age of the practice — a “nickel ride,” a reference to old-time amusement park rides that cost five cents.

I may or may not have experienced one of these in 1993 while being transported from South Street to the 17th District. I'm not saying either way.

I'm not at all certain about that, Ugh. False arrest means they lose their immunity, and not belting in a man they'd trussed up like that makes his death as a result negligent homicide at the least.

While it's not impossible that something will come out clearing them, like his having an eggshell skull, Wilson looked a LOT more innocent at this point than they do.


A member of Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell's security team left a handgun and ammunition clip stuffed in a toilet-seat-cover dispenser in a U.S. Capitol bathroom on Jan. 29, Roll Call reports—and that's only the second-most disturbing incident involving a loose gun and a Republican leader this calendar year:

Heck, simply seeing cops and running is probably enough - he must have done something wrong and what did he expect?

Why not? That's a sentiment I've seen stated about Walter Scott. You know, because you'd have to be an idiot to think you won't be shot eight times in the back by someone whose job is public safety.

See, it's not so much the shooting as it is the running. That's the real problem.

Brett - I don't disagree. I'm just saying that, IMHO, this country is ready to dismiss any complaints of police brutality/wrongdoing if the person complaining has done anything "wrong." Even if what was done "wrong" was nothing illegal or even immoral - like running when you see a cop.

That is, it's more of a the victim "got what he deserved" moral-type judgment than a legal standard. Even him having an eggshell skull shouldn't clear them, I would think.

Ugh, I'll match and raise with all the Democrats getting sucked into the Jeffrey Epstein sex slave scandal. That's just a bit more disturbing, if you ask me.

The US, UK, what is it with politicians and pedophile rape rings? Is pedophilia genetically linked to sociopathy, or something?

That was more of a shot at widespread gun possession than a political thing - if the damn Capitol Police can't help but leave guns laying around the freaking Capitol (where kids can find them, no less), why should I trust the general public to be responsible?

non sequitur, thy name is brett bellmore.

If you can't trust the police not to truss somebody up and drive over bumps until they're concussed to death, why should you trust the general public with vans?

and I know it's a civil liberty and everything, but can we at least consider revoking concealed carry privileges for people who leave firearms in the john?

even as, like, a thought experiment?

you can still have a gun at home, OK? you can hunt, and go to target practice.

just no more concealed carry. or open carry, for that matter.

because YOU LEFT YOUR FREAKING GUN IN THE TOILET. where, like, any random 8 year old could get their hands on it.

note that the toilet is not mentioned in the text of the 2nd Amendment.

and yes, I suppose I own this threadjack. apologies to one and all.

butt mah freedumb!

If you can't trust the police not to truss somebody up and drive over bumps until they're concussed to death, why should you trust the general public with vans?

You need a license to drive a van, it must be registered with the state and display its tags publicly at all times - all so its ownership and use can be tracked and traced.

Van's are also less likely to be misused by a random eight year old going about his or her normal day.

and nobody leaves a van in the toilet.

"The US, UK, what is it with politicians priests and pedophile rape rings?"

And Belgium. Others, too, no doubt; they just haven't been uncovered yet.

"what is it with" ? Power. Narcissistic personality disorder. Self-righteousness. A sense of being immune from accountability.

What the hell are you talking about Brett? Between the sex scandal and the van logic, I feel like I've been concussed.

And less likely to be misplaced.

and nobody leaves a van in the toilet.

someone has probably used a van for a toilet, tho.

Stop the madness!

What the hell is Brett talking about?

Something other than SSM and Freddy Gray. Those discussions haven't turned out so well for the Brett side of the arguments.

Now, russell, you know that's not really true. I've heard of cases of people leaving their vans in the toilet. Usually makes a real mess of the wall, though.

"and I know it's a civil liberty and everything, but can we at least consider revoking concealed carry privileges for people who leave firearms in the john?"

Sure. Just to point out, though, this was a cop.

Having seen plenty of van drivers on the road, a total ban would not be unwelcome.

Just to point out, though, this was a cop.

Time for a desk job.

I'm thinking that, even if it's a cop who left his weapon lying around, his permission to carry should be revoked. If that leaves him unemployed, well such is life. (Maybe he could be on "modified assignment" for the future?)

some has probably used a van as a toilet, tho.

oh great, now i'm all spam blocked.

One of them received a 6 day suspension without pay.

Six days without pay. Is that the current sentencing guideline for "reckless endangerment" in DC?

A guy delivered some letters by airmail to Boehner and crew and he's facing Homeland Security charges.

But weapons left willy-nilly inside the Capitol and its bathrooms -- no problem. Hasn't anyone seen Sterling Hayden get blown away by Michael Corleone with the gun the latter stowed away in the john?

Maybe the postman should have rung twice and delivered handguns to each Congressman.

If you leave a turd out in the open at a gun show, some humorless guys with ample bellies sheathed in tight black NRA t-shirts would open fire on you, I'd expect.

The country is full of guns and full of sh+t, so I don't see why the differential in punishment for mislaying either.

You folks may have this missed this important news, just breaking, but our Naval 7th Fleet has been spotted steaming across the hill country of central Texas toward Austin ... this just in now ... a Nimitz class aircraft carrier just weighed anchor up against the Capitol Building in Austin after laying waste to a fleet of food truck vendors sent out to harass our men in uniform with lashings of barbecued brisket.


The current Governor of Texas is holed up with his deputies in an abandoned storefront Alamo rental car agency and former Governor Rick Perry is said to have donned the backwards baseball cap of freedom loving commandos everywhere and has halted his nascent Presidential campaign to rush back to his homeland to address his people, whose names escape him.

The scuttlebutt is that out worst fears have come true and the federal government has sent its troops into flyover territory to force Texans to not only accept gay marriage, but according to Rand Paul, who is looking into this whole thing from a safe distance, to also have all heterosexual marriages in the state annulled, a move Rick Perry's girlfriend just endorsed on live TV.

Apparently, the uninsured in Texas, which number @25% of the non-Comanche population, will be tended to by U.S. Armed Forces medical teams as Barack Obama gears up to mandate Obamacare for all in that State.

Sometimes it takes an army to force a village to act like f*cking human beings.

if the savage inhabitants of Outer DumbF*ckistan can be brought to civilization, no matter the cost in (their) lives, then perhaps we should allow them to join the USA.

In another 50, 100 years or so. If they behave.

Ensign Pulver here .. the Skipper has just informed me by bellowing at the top of his lungs down the ship's intercom that we have dropped anchor, I repeat, DROPPED anchor in Austin.

We WEIGHED anchor out of Okinawa and it came in at about 32 tons. I know because I pulled it up by hand, not knowing where the anchor toggle switch is located on this tin can.

Standby for further annoyances.

The chow is pretty good down here, Mom.

The girls I've met are pretty and all of them beg me to take them back to the U.S. for a sham marriage, which I guess means no pizza or wedding cake for the likes of me.

When hostilities settle down, I might visit McKinney Texas to trade smirks.

Dear Mom:

I can't say much about our mission down here south of the border in Texas, but just wanted you to know I'm OK and eating well.

Uncle Sam sure can put on a spread.

After we secured the immediate area around the State Capital, the boys and I ventured into town to mingle with the natives and well, we get a little rambunctious after being at sea for so long.

Let's just say these Texas girls sure can throw a mean lariat and pull you up on stage when you least expect it. Woo-eee Howdy!

During the day, we filled the rail cars with prisoners for their trip "home" and I helped pump about two million gallons of prime Texas barbecue sauce into our ships auxiliary storage tanks so we can withstand a long occupation, should it come to that, which scuttlebutt says it might.


Sure, some of the natives take potshots at our fly boys in their F-15s, but by and large they are friendly and welcoming and once you get them used to the frisking and the goosing at the checkpoints, they settle down.

A couple of the guys tried to smuggle a live steer into ship's quarters, but the Captain put a stop to that when he noticed all the basting brushes were missing from the ship's mess.

Military command is pretty tight-lipped about what we're trying to accomplish down here, but I'm sure AM radio is keeping you informed.

It's great to live in a country where any dang fool thing can come into your head and before you know, out it comes from your mouth into the nearest microphone and into the ears of the informed electorate.

The great thing about the United States is everyone is allowed to be as full of sh*t as they want and proud of it. Not like them Russkies where only Putin can make a lot of crap up and say it and that's it.

Say Hi to Dad and sis.

I sure miss Cheboygan.

The Texas-Israeli War: 1999

Dear Mom:

Real quick, because we're cleaning the prairie barnacles offa the ship's hull tonight, but we just apprehended this guy moment ago and let's just say, he has his own private rail car back to reality.


We put straw down for him cause, ya know, we don't want these people to think we're savages or nothing.

Three cheers for Count and his brave comrades-in-arms, spreading Peance and Freance!

TNC has a second post up.

When I was going to school, I thought about every little article that I wore when I walked out the house. I thought about who I was walking with. I thought about how many of them there were. I thought about what neighborhoods they were from. I thought about which route I was going to take to school. Once I got to school I thought about what I was going to do during the lunch hour—was I actually going to have lunch or was I going to go sit in the library. When school was dismissed I thought about what time I was going to leave school. I thought about whether I should stay after-school for class. I thought about whether I should take the bus up to my grandmother’s house. I thought about which way I should go home if I was going to go home. Every one of those choices was about the avoidance of violence, about the protection of my body. And so I don’t want to come off as if I’m sympathizing or saying that it is necessarily okay, to inflict violence just out of anger, no matter how legitimate that anger is.

But I have a problem when you begin the clock with the violence on Tuesday.

"First of all, we have to understand how the Constitution works. The president is required to carry out the laws of the land, the laws of the land come from the legislative branch," Carson said on Tuesday. "So if the legislative branch creates a law or changes a law, the executive branch has a responsibly to carry it out. It doesn’t say they have the responsibility to carry out a judicial law. And that's something we need to talk about."

Ben Carson - Deep thinker.

We have 2 branches of government, executive and legislative, and an observer, the judiciary, who stands on the side and makes inconsequential comments.

Oh, and constitution.

THREE branches, plus a fourth estate, a fifth column, a sixth element, a seventh seal, and an eight-fold way.

Collect the whole set.

I booked mark this comment at LG&M for things like what Ben Carson says above:

Somewhere in the middle decades of the 20th Century (when judicial decisions started going against them) conservatives came to the realization that the Common Law, under which judges determine what the law is, by applying abstract principles to particular facts, thereby creating precedents for application to future cases, was raw judicial tyranny. Somewhere in there, too, conservatives came to the realization that no one has any rights other than those explicitly specified in the Constitution. These twin insights are, of course inoperative when conservative policy preferences are respected by the courts. All this is given the somewhat-Orwellian label “originalism,” recognizing that the original intent of the drafters of the Constitution was to reject the entire system of jurisprudence with which they were familiar.

I think this is the current open thread, so I give y'all the latest judicial sin perpetuated by those unelected black-robed monsters:

ACLU v. Clapper

Also looking for an open thread. This made my day:


At a citywide forum Saturday, Campanello announced major changes in how police in this small Essex County city will handle the opioid and drug epidemic gripping Massachusetts and the rest of the country.

“We are poised to make revolutionary changes in the way we treat this disease,” he told residents at the forum.

Any addict who walks into the Gloucester Police Department with drugs and the remainder of their drug equipment – needles, pipes or other paraphernalia – and asks for help will not be criminally charged, Campanello said. Instead, they will be steered into a treatment program to help them detox and recover.

“We will assign them an ‘angel’ who will be their guide through the process,” Campanello said. “Not in hours or days, but on the spot.”

That is a man who takes civil service earnestly.

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