Your sick of talking about drones, so let's talk about feminism post

by liberal japonicus

Sapient's guest post still seems to be giving off heat, but as that slowly dies down, we need something else, I suppose. So below the fold (cause there's a video down there too), some things to keep the home fires burning.

The feminism point was prompted by this New Yorker piece

Yael Kohen’s “We Killed: The Rise of Women in American Comedy,” out today, is an oral history that charts the role of female comedians in this country, from Joan Rivers and Phyllis Diller’s lewd, joke-based night-club gigs of the nineteen-fifties to the idiosyncratic performances of the alternative comedians Kristen Schaal and Aubrey Plaza today, with Elaine May, Lily Tomlin, Janeane Garofalo, and many other doyennes of comedy interviewed and discussed along the way. The section of the book about the women of “Saturday Night Live,” excerpted here, focusses on a period in the nineteen-nineties and early aughts when a group of ambitious female cast members transformed “S.N.L.”—a notorious boys’ club since its first season, in 1975—into a space where female comedians could collaborate and thrive.

The show had produced occasional female stars, like Gilda Radner and Jan Hooks, during its first two decades, but beginning in 1995, a fundamental shift in the show’s gender balance began to take place. With the arrival of Molly Shannon and Cheri Oteri, and, the following year, Ana Gasteyer, “S.N.L.” saw a new core of female cast members who fought for time on the air, encouraged each other to succeed, and took ownership of their performance styles. These women paved the way for subsequent generations of female cast members—Rachel Dratch, Tina Fey, Amy Poehler, Maya Rudolph, and, later, Kristen Wiig—who continued to bolster the position of women on the show and, in the process, became some of the biggest names, male or female, in comedy today.

The interview is quite interesting. Getting SNL only as bits and pieces here, I saw the female based sketch comedy and the ticks and idiosyncracies that were highlighted as evidence of how women were still being treated badly, but reading the interview, it describes how these "comediennes" (funny, I couldn't even remember how to spell that word) are actually working to subvert tropes. 

The one thing that is dicey is period stuff, and nursing, and things like that. That’s where guys are like, Ugh, that’s never, ever gonna fly. I had a sketch that almost got on with Rainn Wilson about a guy that wanted to watch a lady breast-feed. It got a big laugh at the table, but I think the guys were still like, Okay, that’s a little too much into the biological areas—like, we don’t wanna think of you having your period and we don’t wanna think of you as a food source.

PAULA PELL: I think the fear was if a scene was about some female issue, it was going to have hard jokes. We don’t do subtle little observational things. It’s gotta have hard jokes in it and it has to have some observation with an edge. For example, I wrote a thing back in that day called “Kotex Classic.” It was a commercial parody for Kotex and it was commenting on “classic” things coming back, like Coke Classic. And that’s where I got the idea: what if it’s something classic that isn’t good, like this horrible pad and belt that thank God we don’t have anymore. So there was a concept behind it, which they like to have, and the idea was a new kind of Kotex, where they’re going back to the old kind of Kotex that had the belts. And when you first pitch things like that, about a pad or whatever, there’s always the worry, “Well, how’s it gonna work?” And I think Lorne, because he’s a sixty-something-year-old man, is squeamish about any female thing like that, as many men are. But I think as celebrities became more like Courtney Love, and with Molly, especially, have such abandon and coming out and showing her underpants [as Mary Katherine Gallagher], we could write harsher, crazier, harder things for women.

Looking at this from far away and just seeing snippets of what reaches the TV screen, it looks like it's mysogyny all the way down. But the process behind it is aiming to subvert these tropes. 

It is sort of serendipity, cause just before I say this, I heard about these two videos below:

 

 

Maybe it's just me, but this seems to get at the problem in a way that both prevents counter outrage and really bites. Which I tend to think is as it should be.

 

update:

And as soon as I hit the post button and go back to my regularly scheduled procrastination surfing, this appears:

Comments

[lily]

I'm kind of out of the loop on TV stuff since I have never owned one.

I have noticed this cultural change: it used to be that fantasy novels were very much dominated by male characters, but now the YA fantasy novels and futuristic/dystopia novels are about smart, competent, assertive young women.
Pretty much sanitized young women--no periods, no kotex--but definately female centric. I don't know if the sanitizing is because for the YA audience, an attempt to keep the books acessible to males, or just part of the fantasy.

[Countme-In]

The Bodyform ad is wonderful stuff.

Here's what it is in response to:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/9614419/Bodyforms-response-to-Facebook-rant-a-viral-hit.html

I love Ellen degeneres.

This, from Erick Erickson (outrage from, you know, the guy who murdered a Census worker in 2009 who had the audacity to knock on his door and ask about Erickson's toilet facilities and habits (bad to filthy, depending on whether he left the window open and flushed recently) and then had God help him bury the body in his basement next to the shallow grave of Justice Souter and his well-f*cked goat code-named Moe) about the Dunham pro-Obama ad:

"If you needed further proof about just how much the President has cheapened the Presidency, consider his latest ad, which not only compares voting for him for the first time to losing virginity, but also ridicules those who might not want to lose their virginity to just any politician. This is the peer group peer pressure people across the political aisle have complained about in high schools for years. But our President is adopting it as a last minute campaign strategy. If you need any further proof we live in a fallen world destined for hell fire, consider the number of people who have no problem with the President of the United States, via a campaign ad, ridiculing virgins and comparing sex to voting."

cribbed from Sullivan

I'll bet Erickson's wife farts out loud like a sailor and then cackles like a banshee.

Further, millions of Americans will be in for the rogering of their lives once Romney/Ryan start wielding the objectivist strap-on, so I just don't where Erickson has room to fart via word of mouth.

[Countme-In]

This chestnut, re the Dunham ad ... from Saint Ronny ... is all over the interfallopiantubes:

“I know what it’s like to pull the Republican lever for the first time, because I used to be a Democrat myself, and I can tell you it only hurts for a minute and then it feels just great.”

Actually I think Reagan's first wife, Jane Wyman, told him that, after yawning and checking her watch.

He voted for himself, pulling his Republican lever more than once.

There is a word for that.

[Countme-In]

Since it's video Friday, this gave me a hernia from laughing:

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/triumph-the-insult-comic-dog-debate-video-14124337

[Gareth Wilson]

Lena Dunham was an 18-year-old Ohio resident in 2004, but didn't vote in the presidential election between George Bush and John Kerry. Make of that what you will.

[liberal japonicus]

A bit stalker-ish, if you ask me.

[russell]

I think his apparent belief that the entire world is destined for hell fire explains a lot about Erick Erickson.

Very funny vids LJ, thank you. I heart Ellen DeGeneres, as should we all.

This year's Mark Twain award winner, BTW.

[cleek]

if you need any further proof we live in a fallen world destined for hell fire, consider that someone named Erick Erickson wrote this:

"The nation loses the only goat f*&king child molester to ever serve on the Supreme Court in David Souter's retirement."

[sapient]

What Erick Erickson wrote

Well, not to go off on another one of my favorite rant topics, but when our society supports the institution of marriage as some kind of preferred lifestyle arrangement, this kind of attitude is what passes for acceptable. (Obviously, it's not acceptable to most of the people here, but it's surprisingly prevalent.)

That said, imagine my surprise when I heard Erick Erickson on Morning Edition (NPR) a month or so ago. And imagine too my nausea.

[McKinneyTexas]

Regardless of EE's take on the advert, does anyone think it will actually change someone's mind? If Obama loses, it will be because he couldn't reach independents, and because his base is un-enthused. IMO, his recent ads and comments suggest his campaign's private polling is showing bad numbers, producing a series of lash-outs rather than a focused, inclusive campaign. His repeated promises to bring jobs home and create new jobs may seem to a lot of folks to be, perhaps, 4 years too late.

[russell]

If Obama loses, it will be because he couldn't reach independents, and because his base is un-enthused.

I thought this was about the best analysis I've read so far on "what does it mean if Obama loses".

Nobody gets the job unless we hire them.

[cleek]

IMO, his recent ads and comments suggest his campaign's private polling is showing bad numbers, producing a series of lash-outs rather than a focused, inclusive campaign.

have you seen any of Romney's recent ads / statements? the guy's turned his mendacity up to eleven.

[Phil]

On a more serious tip, is anyone on ObWi still in touch with OCSteve? Ocean City, MD is getting absolutely hammered by Sandy right now, along with Atlantic City and Rehoboth Beach, DE. Just hoping he and the family are OK.

[russell]

the guy's turned his mendacity up to eleven.

I love that Romney has decided to run on the evils of offshoring jobs.

The fact that the example he's chosen to hammer on is false, and publicly stated to be false, both by the company in question and the source he cites, is pure bonus.

[wj]

McKinney and cleek,
I wonder if you have considered that you may both be right . . . not least because you may be looking at different ads. I think you might even find that, even if you are in the same media market, you could be seeing different ads simply because you are watching different TV channels.

The ability to micro-target ad campaings (and not just for politicians) has meant that we have almost left completely the world where everybody saw the same ads, and made their decisions accordingly. But it has also opened up one rather interesting option: you can find out a lot about what kinds of people watch the same shows you do, just by looking at what gets advertised there. (If K-Y Brand is a big advertiser, you probably have a somewhat different dynamic than if Christian Mingle is the big advertiser. Just for one example -- trying to tie back to the original theme of the thread. :-)

[wj]

Drat! That was supposed to be "a somewhat different demographic" not "a somewhat different dynamic." Sorry

[hairshirthedonist]

Re: Triumph the Insult Dog video - John McCain's reaction was the highlight for me. The best things in life truly are free.

[russell]

If K-Y Brand is a big advertiser, you probably have a somewhat different dynamic than if Christian Mingle is the big advertiser.

What does it mean if the big advertisers are joint pain relief creams and cholestorol meds?

Wait, I'm not sure I even want to know....

[Countme-In]

The Personnel hiring committee is meeting and the conclusions look something like this:

"After multiple rounds of interviews, we've winnowed the candidates down to two. The way we see it is that Candidate A, while having promised more jobs for the overall enterprise, has proved fairly ineffective in reaching that goal, although we must say that his hostile references in the private sector are more of an anchor around his neck, given that they are the very ones who keep firing people in their own businesses, and were doing so at even heavier clip before Candidate A took his previous job, and further, recommending that government fire people as well. Not only that, but they deny that Candidate has any power whatsoever to increase job activity.

Yes, clearly ineffective by all accounts. What about Candidate B.

Well, in the interviews, it was obvious to all, even those predisposed to Candidate B, that every word that came out of his mouth during the interviews was an out and out lie. His own mother, who we contacted, contradicted every thing he said during every single interview. While his resume was at best ambiguous regarding his job creation efforts in past jobs, his references fairly yodeled that he was the best job-cutter, job outsourcer, and job downsizer, in both private and public sectors. Hell, if he had been a witness for the plaintive in a court of law, I'd have requested the Judge charge him with perjury and then I would have upped the damage award requests by some exponential amount. Still, when he shines that mouth full of chiclets on you, you want to hire HIM as counsel.

Well, if our goal is job creation, then Candidate B is obviously the man for the job. Less is more is our motto. Plus, I liked the way he looked all of us directly in the eyes as he laid down that blizzard of horsesh*t. In fact, one minute he would say one thing to someone on one side of the table, and the very next minute, he would utter a completely contradictory bullsh*t statement to someone on the other side of the table. It was hard to watch, but I must admit bracing, for those who know that lying and cheating is the way business is done. These are just the sorts of people I like to hire to keep headcount down to acceptable levels.

You used the word "cheat" a moment ago. How do you mean?

It's hard to tell given the admirable cloud of obfuscation he kicked up during the interviews, but we have suspicions that he has, let us say, a funky past with his tax issues. Unlike all of our other candidates, we were not permitted access to the truth, despite our frequent requests.

Well, if he didn't pay his taxes, then all the more reason to hire him in my book. Just because a guy says he's patriotic doesn't mean his money has to be so as well. I count this as another plus. The other candidate was completely forthcoming, and this enterprise won't last long if all of us have to be honest AND count our pennies.

So then, it's settled, I guess. We go with the bullsh*tter as the front man. Well, we've done it before. The only question is should we put both the Sales (Lying) Department and Accounting (Cheating) Department directly under him?

Both. Call Karl up in Horsesh*t and have him draw up the papers. Make sure you lock the bulkhead doors for the parasites we have in steerage, too, because this guy's bringing his assistant over with him, who makes Roy Cohn, of McCarthy fame, look like Happy Gilmour.

Yes, but he's personable.

Yes.

And he has a serious plan.

Yes. For some. Ha! The poor f*cks. And at least he tells the absolute truth except for all of that white space in his serious plan.

One more thing, Judy what do you think? You always have a feel for this sort of thing.

Judy: Well, I'm not too, let us say, excited, about Candidate B's plan to quarter troops in my vagina, and my brother will perish, I expect, when his Medicaid is abolished, but on the other hand, he will eliminate my taxes, so, yeah, Candidate B is the one. Besides, Candidate A is ineffective at best. And a little defensive, for a Jew, I mean (http://www.lucianne.com/thread/?artnum=709273 I mean). We have jobs and no one else does, and he promised to change that. What did he think, that we who have jobs give a flying wallenda? Who needs longer lines at Bonwit Teller?

PS. Yes, McCain's wordless double take was priceless. He gave the same startled glance at the Viet Cong when they bought his act as an honorable man.

[cleek]

Ocean City, MD is getting absolutely hammered by Sandy right now

according to one Fark headline:
"Ocean City MD can now say that as a beach resort, it is without pier"

[Countme-In]

Look, the drama queen money shark job creators, tiring of whining about UNCERTAINTY under Obamacare certainty, are already whining about "UNCERTAINTY" under Romney noObamacare uncertainty, mainly because he lies about everything.

http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=AP&date=20121029&id=15727010

Tell you what. Hire people, pay your taxes, and shut your gobs.

What kind of entrepreneurs await a world without uncertainty?

The whining ones, sitting on their hands, waiting for the coast to be 100% completely clear.

The same kind who call themselves entrepreneurs and everyone else a parasite.

I don't recall this happening under the 91% marginal tax rates and accompanying explosive GDP growth and low unemployment during the Eisenhower era.

You know, Boehner's sweet spot that causes floods of sentimental tears.

[lily]

I've been on a jag of reading YA fantasy and scifi literature, probably for the escapism value, over the last year or so. I am nearly finsihed with Under the Never Sky, a novle that actually deals with menstration as an important element of the story!

The theme of the book is not new: civilized character gets thrown into primitive life and must survive, falls in love with primitive character. The young woman character comes frm a highly snitized culture where vertual life has nearly replaced real life. babies are planned and geneticaly designed and created in labs. Woomen no longer mentrate or conceive. No one has body odor. Everyone is beautiful.

When the female character gets thrown inot the wilderness she starts to mentrate. Intially she thinks this is too uterly awful too animalistic, icky icky icky. It's the male charactrer who grooves on her period ( he likes the smell). Getting a period becomes an essential step in her proces of becoming fully human.

This would be mysognistic if it turned out that by becomeing a barefoot continusously pregnant animal she became fully human but it is not haeded that way. It's more like she's getting intouch wiht the stuff that got airbrushed out as not nice.

[Resume Templates]

My full support is for Romney, because he said to provide equal rights to men and women at work place.

[russell]

Looks like Romney's got the spam vote locked in.

[bobbyp]

IMO, his recent ads and comments suggest his campaign's private polling is showing bad numbers...

Oh, please. Tell you what. Let's put a Franklin on the race (or better, a round at Bandon Dunes)...heads up.

My private polling is surprisingly positive. Who coulda' known!