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August 02, 2010

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This town, it's f*@king insane...

Thanks. This is what I've been trying to get across to anyone who will listen. I fear the "Ground Zero mosque" frame is too widely ingrained at this point, however.

Good catch Larv.

This town, it's f*@king insane...

Larv, I was this close to pouncing on this with "Hey, don't blame 'this town,' I resent that, a majority of people here in Manhattan actually approve of the Center, and it's all being stirred up by a bunch of politicians who don't give two sh*ts about NYC, they just wanna yadda yadda..."

And then I thought there might be something else going on with your comment.

Good thing I googled.

I have to admit I was sort of trolling for just such a indignant response, UK. I could have also gone with "Big city, it's a living hell".

Eric, good title. Energy might be my favorite album ever. I usually have to think about your titles, but as soon as I read that one my brain added "...spiderweb across the land like a giant rash". I can't tell you how old it makes me feel to realize that album is more than 20 years old.

This whole thing is as weird and unexpected to me as an attempt to bar the construction of a synagogue would be, or an open statement that you should vote against Obama because he's black. It's such a throwback.

Same script, different year; the Repubs always find some sort of boogeyman other to prop up at election time. Reagan's commercial about the Russian Bear, Bush I's Willie Horton, the Welfare Queen, Ice T and Cop Killer, and waves of job paranoia involving immigrants all come from the same place.

The Republicans create an other for their base, and it usually isn't too difficult for people to get frightened and look for the GOP for protection.

I'm a doctor, and I take Medicare, and as a result I have a number of older patients. I had people in TEARS in 2008 at the thought of Obama emptying the prisons, refusing to punish black crimes against whites, and stealing from them to pay blacks for their suffering. One woman was planning to move in with her son for protection.

The Republicans do this because IT WORKS. It plays on peoples fears and gets them to vote for a party that otherwise might not have much to offer them. People can be manipulated, and all the facts in the world won't make a difference to them. There are people out there who listen to hours of Right Wing Radio, with no other source for news, no counterbalance to this bigotry. They hear it at church, from their friends and neighbors, and never look for another point of view.

While I agree wholeheartedly with the conclusion, I find this point of dubious value:

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf [...] is a Sufi. Al Qaeda is Sunni (actually, more accurately Wahabi) and consider Sufis apostates.

Substitute Khamenei and Shia for Rauf and Sufi, and you still have a true statement. It's not in itself much of a recommendation.

It's not in itself much of a recommendation.

Sufis: lovers, not fighters. Hence, the relevance.

It's such a throwback.

We're Americans. We recapitulate our political ontogeny on a daily basis.

No surprises there.

Seriously, Cordoba should have just done the paperwork, hired their contractors, and built the damned thing without making any public announcement. Nobody would have known or cared that there was a Muslim-sponsored community center two blocks away from the WTC site.

They wanted to extend a hand of friendship. They weren't counting on the flying monkeys.

But no one expects the Spanish Inquisition the flying monkeys!

It's not in itself much of a recommendation

No, but it hollows out the suggestion that the expansion of the Cordoba site would be treated as a victory by al-Qaeda and other Sunni, Salafist extremists.

Larv: I haven't stoppped listening since my junior/senior year in HS.

Still a good choise if you're looking for a boost of, well, energy

Seriously, Cordoba should have just done the paperwork, hired their contractors, and built the damned thing without making any public announcement.

I'm pretty sure you can't do that in New York without going through a permitting process that includes the opportunity for community input, even if you don't need a zoning variance. Of course they could have just called it something else, like Happy Funtime Puppy Land (Now with Ice Cream!) and left the Islam part out until the grand opening.

I'm pretty sure you can't do that in New York without going through a permitting process that includes the opportunity for community input

Yeah, that's probably true.

No matter what these guys did, they were in for the full shriekdown, because they're Muslim and they want to do anything at all in the general neighborhood of the WTC site.

Remember the proposed memorial in Shanksville? It was CRESCENT SHAPED and oriented toward MECCA!!!!!!

I appreciate that lots of people were freaked out by 9/11. We all were. But at a certain point you have to move on with life.

Paranoia strikes deep.

My favorite bit has been the discussion I've seen at least twice:

"How would you feel about a Shinto shrine at Pearl Harbor, huh?!"

"Dude, there *is* a Shinto shrine at Pearl Harbor."

But how does that make you feel?

;)

Guardedly optimistic. Also, hungry.

Sounds like someone needs some meatloaf.

Alas, today I'll have to make do with leftover orange chicken and green beans. Straight white men just can't catch a break in this country, amirite guys?

Sounds like someone needs some Meatloaf

Sorry, but somebody had to do it.

It's Meat Loaf, two words. He's very insistent on that. :)

As in "Don't let your meat loaf."

When you lie down with dopes, you tend to stand up stupid

Likewise, I'm sure. Nice to meet you.

To claim the new structure will contain a 'prayer room' and not a mosque is a deceptive attempt to de-emphasize the Islamic religious aspect of the project.

It's a religious and cultural center being built by Moslems. Moslems will attend it, will pray there, and it will no doubt have a strong religious aspect.

Call it a mosque, call it whatever you like, I don't really give a crap.

I don't care if they build a mosque dead center on the site of old WTC buildings. It would, no doubt, upset some folks, but there is absolutely nothing that the Muslim community in the USA can do that isn't going to upset some folks.

That sucks, but that's the reality. I'm sure they're used to it by now, and I'm sure they've learned to just carry on in spite of all of the people who fear and hate them.

There are billion and a half Muslims in the world. There are a couple million Muslims in the US. There are about 650,000 Muslims in New York State. I don't know exactly how many Muslims are in NYC, but it is no doubt tens if not hundreds of thousands.

Muslims live here. They've lived here for years and years and years. You probably know some, or at least encounter some every day as you go about your business.

They're not out to get you.

Give it a rest.

Russell: I deleted the comment from Jay Jerome. Apologies if it makes your response harder to follow, but worth it in the end I would say.

crap, I shoulda known it was Jay.

actually, if it was Jay, maybe they *are* out to get him.

Bloomberg spot on on this one. Link at sig.

They are just normal people like you and me who are trying to make a living and don't need their lives making harder by ignorant fools.

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