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October 27, 2008

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Jesus.

Get used to it.

A black man with an Arab name, president of the United States. Just the thought that it might happen is raising the crazy level to new and unprecedented heights.

If Obama actually wins, he's going to draw the crazy like Epsom salts draws pus. And that is no mere metaphor.

Buckle up. Don't freak out, but buckle up. It's going to be a bumpy ride.

Thanks -

Just to pre-emptively answer the question, '88' is code for 'Heil Hitler' (H is the 8th letter), and 14 stands for the '14 Words': "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children."

I learned this on the History Channel, their documentaries about the neo-Nazis and the KKK were interesting, if more than a bit depressing.

I hope the media doesn't make a huge deal about this.

I would be very surprised if these guys were capable of executing the "rent tuxedos" part of their plan.

Do the white tuxedoes refer to something, or did these loons come up with that bit all on their own?

These guys remind me of some other hate-motivated but also, fortunately, incompetent groups that have been arrested for their plans in recent years. Anyone think the government and the media will use the word "terrorist" as much for these skinheads as they do for Muslims?

What david kilmer said. Not to be too casual about it or anything, but, even allowing for the dry "official" tone of the ATF affidavit, it really doesn't sound like these two asshats - despite their grandiose "plans" - were capable of ding much more real damage than they eventually caused.

Unfortunately, we can't always count on potential assassins being as careless as the short-bus SS busted in TN.

I doubt these two brilliant folk were ever a danger to Obama, but most high schools are significantly less protected than a candidate for the Presidency. It doesn't seem to take much brains to walk into a school with some weaponry and kill people. So while Obama may have been safe, a bunch of kids were endangered and I don't think we should be too dismissive about that.

"Not to be too casual about it or anything, but, even allowing for the dry 'official' tone of the ATF affidavit, it really doesn't sound like these two asshats - despite their grandiose 'plans' - were capable of ding much more real damage than they eventually caused."

James Earl Ray and Sirhan Sirhan weren't terribly impressive sorts, either. Nor Oswald, for that matter. (Nor Guiteau, but who remembers him these days?)

(Oh, dear, I opened the They Were Patsies door; never mind.)

I agree with Turbulence.

My only worry is about the media making a big production out of something that should not be a front page story. I certainly wouldn't want law enforcement to be dismissive.

"James Earl Ray and Sirhan Sirhan weren't terribly impressive sorts, either. Nor Oswald, for that matter."

They're more impressive than the skinhead duo in at least two ways:

1. They were not caught before carrying out their plans.

2. Their plans - as far as I know - did not place undue emphasis on issues like what they would be wearing when carrying out their plans.

It's not such a shock to learn about the plot to kill Barack Obama by two neo-Nazis. These crazy bums have drawn their inspiration from the current caustic political atmosphere created by the Republicans.

The McCain and Palin attack ads are working. The vitriolic ads are designed to incite hate and spur ferocious acts against Barack Obama by the screw heads of the party.

The use of Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright as prime material for attack ads are sufficient reasons to label McCain and Palin as racist enablers. They can't wiggle their way out of this charge, try as they may.

McCain and Palin and the right wing talking heads, the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity, O’Riley and all the lesser clones should bear supreme responsibility if any harm should come to Obama as a result of their blatant use of racism and bigotry to advance political goals. These people are playing with fire. This is not the way it should be.

Wordtodawise

And if the ATF had had to torture a few skinheads to discover this plot ... God help me, but I'm not sure that would bother me.

"And if the ATF had had to torture a few skinheads to discover this plot ... God help me, but I'm not sure that would bother me."

It would me; how would you know you had the "right" skinheads?

And how would even having the "right" skinheads make it any easier for the torturer, if they had any humanity or conscience, to deal with later in life, necessarily? And how would it make it right?

Either torture is wrong, or it isn't. If it isn't, hey, why not use it for any serious crime? What, are you soft on child molesters and kidnappers and common murderers?

I'm worried about the safety of Obama on election night, with the huge crowd he will be among in that park.

who cares about Mr Spread the Wealth

Wait for the "revelation" that those two guys were actually Obama agents like Ashley Todd that want to stoke the fire of reverse racism.
Remember that islamofascist Timothy bin Veigh?

What the heck is going on with this country leave it to some racist rednecks to do something like that. The funny thing is when they probly dont even know the policies of either candidate and just dont like him because he is mixed...yes people did we not forget he is half black and half white, I bet half of this country is mixed with something or another, unless your parents came off of a boat you never know who was sleeping with whom down the line. Can we all just get along, are people really that ignorant to judge someone by the color of thier skin and not what kind of person they are, this is not the 1920s get over it!!!!

Both individuals stated they would dress in all white tuxedos and wear top hats during the assassination attempt

Some strange form of panache, I guess.

OT, but Obama related - Is it just me or is the 30 minute TV time Obama has purchased for tomorrow night almost 100% downside? It plays right into one of John McCain's meme (however stupid), that Obama's a celebrity, now with his own TV show! Plus, do people want a 30 minute political commercial in the middle of prime time? It seems to me that the odds of someone watching that who's still undecided is going to be persuaded, and that the odds that he'll alienate people who might otherwise support him.

OTOH, they seem to have been running a decent campaign so maybe they know something I don't know.

"Plus, do people want a 30 minute political commercial in the middle of prime time?"

Really, shouldn't he dance with someone, or offer to guess what's in a briefcase, or something?

The blog Pharyngula mentions the word that's curiously missing from this story.

That word is "terrorism".

I mean, a plot to kill innocent people for political reasons?

Would people be so sanguine if it was two Muslims planning to elaborately dress up and go kill white Christian schoolkids?

Do the white tuxedoes refer to something, or did these loons come up with that bit all on their own?

They heard on TV that Obama was surrounded by elitists, and wanted to stay inconspicuous?

This is typically called an amok run* by poor deranged boys not connected to any political movement. It's only terrorism, if it can be blamed on muslims or liberals.
Probably white tuxedos and top hats to distinguish themselves from the black trenchcoats in Columbine. Full KKK regalia would also have drawn suspicion too early when approaching the target.

*please ignore that there was more than one person involved or that there was a longer preparation for it.

Lizard:

Yeah, just a little harmless fun. We used to do the same kind of thing all the time in gym class.

I happened to be really close (10 feet) to Obama when he did an impromptu speech in a San Francisco street last November. Thus, I got a good look at his Secret Service detail. They were the most intimidating guys I ever saw. I'm not worried about Obama's safety.

Besides, it wouldn't be practical to shoot Obama from inside a crowd- someone would grab your arm. (Remember what happened when some crazy leftist tried to assassinate Gerald Ford that way?) An assassin would have to shoot from the perimeter of the event- and the Secret Service does secure the perimeter.

I agree, the high school is much more worrisome.

Please, can we drop the childish conviction that "scary" and "intimidating" secret service guys can protect Obama from every form of harm. It is not written anywhere that an attack on the president or on our candidates will be limited to the romanticizied, one man one shot one kill form of the movies or even of history. Please, we live in a country where presidents and presidential candidates have been killed despite protections--and lots of protections--and in a world with many lethal weapons running loose. If someone didn't mind obliterating a large number of people they could easily harm our candidate. And the SS around him, too. I'm not a religious person at all but I pray for Senator Obama and his family, and all those in the crowds around him and Senator Biden.

I realize there's a reason to minimize the intelligence and the capability of the idiots involved in this particular scheme--because otherwise they become martyrs and we can see from the right wing response that turning them (rhetorically) into toothless hill billy fools turns off the would be imitators. Even Confederate Yankee (aka treason in defence of slavery boy) has turned on a dime and gone from promising race war with guns after an obama victory to stepping far away from the mud splatter of this incident. But that being said lets not kid ourselves. Our candidate and our future president is in great danger, not from the usual band of squeaky frome/john hinkley like nuts and butts of jokes but from seriously deranged people whipped into a frenzy by their political leaders.

aimai

"And the SS around him, too."
Might want to watch your use of "SS"

Couple of things:

A plan to kill 88 kids, 14 by cutting off their heads, is nothing to take lightly. Obama or no Obama.

Violent white supremacists are no novelty in this country, either historically or now. Racialist terrorism is not a hypothetical threat. To their credit, the FBI and the ATF take it seriously.

I'm not sure you can lay this kind of thing at the feet of loudmouth pundits like Limbaugh et al. I don't think white supremacists really care that much about them, or pay that much attention to them. The Aryanists are in their own, far weirder, world.

Not that I have anything good to say about Limbaugh.

There are what is no doubt a disturbingly large number of people who are going to want Obama dead, whether he wins or not, but especially if he wins. This is not going to be the last of this crap.

It's a sad and scary state of affairs, but it is what it is. He's a black man with an Arab name, running for POTUS. Ergo, he's a target.

Let's all hope the man stays safe.

Thanks -

Even Confederate Yankee (aka treason in defence of slavery boy) has turned on a dime and gone from promising race war with guns after an obama victory to stepping far away from the mud splatter of this incident.

bah. he's just afraid of being associated with those kinds of people while the spotlights are on. but, after the attention fades, he'll be back to his old self. and i doubt his commentariat is ready to give up the eliminationism quite yet, either. why, just last week, they were proposing to make a list of unruly MSM journalists who would be called out and "dealt with, one at a time" when they strayed from the Republicanist party line - kind of a Nuernberg Files thing, but for reporters instead of abortion doctors.

Imagine that. Two racsists,one from rural Tennessee and one from rural Arkansas. Is it any wonder there home town folks didn't recognize them. Look in the mirror folks, they are you.

Listen, Obama is not going to get hit. That's not the worry. He's going to be the most well-protected President-elect (knock wood) in history.

The real worry is that people like this -- and I suspect there are many of them -- are going to start killing innocent people who happen to be nearby.

Schools. Shopping Centers. Public places.

People pulled out of their homes in the dead of night, like it was fifty years ago.

I'm worried about even a smattering of small incidents. I'm worried about children held hostage "unless Obama surrenders himself to us."

There are plenty of nightmares that don't end with bad things happening to Obama.

This issue is the elephant in the room, and must be recognised as such. When Biden said Obama would be "tested" within six months of being elected, this is the first scenario that came to my mind. Some far-right religious nutcase with an end-of-days death-wish is sure to have a go sometime, hoping everyone will remember his name as we do Oswald's/Chapman's/Booth's. Whenever I see photos/footage of Michelle Obama and her children I wonder just how good the security is that surrounds them, for surely they are at great risk. If I had any inclination toward religion, I'd be praying for Barack Obama, and the people of the US. His death in office by bomb or bullet would rip the country in half.

The reports are that although Obama has received more death threats than McCain he and McCain have the same amount of Secret Service protection. Interesting that they don't bother to scale it up proportional to the threat level.

Z. Mulls is right--there are plenty of nightmares that don't end with bad things happening to Obama, but then there are plenty of nightmares that do end that way. We are in a country of lost, angry, souls. Some of them will feel comfortable acting out at a local level where local events turn them on or off, or where for local reasons they feel safe (they are well connected with the local hierarchy) or they feel particularly despondent (that is, they are millinerians or cultists who are convinced the end times are near). Others are going to have the moxie to go on some kind of spree or road trip aimed at the epicenter of their angst--which might be scary black guys generally, ny, washington, or obama. Only a few of these targets have any kind of protection at all.

Its going to be a really long eight years. And Obama and the Dems are going to need to restrengthen and re-invigorate prosecutions for hate crimes and voter intimidation. These attacks may be symbolic (for the attacker) or they may be directly political and propagandistic. Either way, lots of people can and will get hurt.

aimai

Have you taken a gander at your rightwing blogs recently?

If you have, you might have noticed how many are talking up the need to buy weapons and ammunition in anticipation of some Manson-esque, Helter Skelter conflict. Once guns are mentioned, it's like chum in the water--it sparks an orgasmic feeding frenzy.


It's not far-fetched to imagine one or more of the lesser educated frequenters of such blogs deciding public sentiment favors him.

I'd say the flip side of Neil H's point about the word "terrorism" applies as well: although these guys are accused of wanting to carry out heinous actions, we only have the word of the law enforcement authorities at the moment. We should apply the same skepticism to those statements as we applied to the lurid plots ascribed to the guys accused of plotting to blow up the Sears Tower.

The reports are that although Obama has received more death threats than McCain he and McCain have the same amount of Secret Service protection. Interesting that they don't bother to scale it up proportional to the threat level.

I don't think you can accurately gauge their protection of Obama or McCain by the measures and staffing to which they're willing to publicly admit.

Even assuming they have the same amount of manpower assigned to them--an assumption I would not necessarily make--the scope and context of the threats against Obama will dictate their tactics and the defensive measures they take.

I have faith in the USSS like I do for few other government organizations. They are not men and women with whom you want to fsck.

James Earl Ray and Sirhan Sirhan weren't terribly impressive sorts, either. Nor Oswald, for that matter.

Yes, but security was a LOT looser then, too. I doubt they would have been able to kill if modern security measures had been in place.

I will either write-in or vote against Obama, while many good friends of mine will vote enthusiastically for Obama while others vote McCain with equal fervor. My politics and Christopher Buckley's are in the same sphere, but unlike Buckley, I'm not voting for more government simply because Sarah Palin was possibly the worst call ever for vice-president or because McCain's policies, such as they are, morph daily.

That said, for once, left-wing conspiracy theorists may be on to something--like a broken watch being right twice a day.

Senator and soon-to-be-President Obama and his family absolutely will require considerably more protection than any president before and the damage a successful assassination would do to the country is immeasurable.

The really rotten thing about this--and I have no idea what the nuttier fringe on the left says after a couple of drinks and when they are just among friends--is that there is a very thin but detectable slice of hard core right wingers who would 'regret and deplore' something horrible happening to Obama but who would get over it pretty quickly. It's sickening, but it's there.

mckinneytexas,
you "aren't voting for more government simply because Palin was passibly the worst call ever..." so, what are you "voting for more government for? You can't be under the impression that McCain/Palin would be *less* expansionist than Bush/Cheney? Palin would expand the reach of the government directly into people's bedrooms, their schools, and their libraries while McCain/Palin would allow the expansion of corporate spying directly into every facet of american citizen's lives, cut off all regulation of corporations (thus allowing them to expand their control over food and work to the despite of the actual american citizens doing the work and buying the food), and expand the military and the war fronts--both of which require a huge expansion of government payments and services to the military, our vets, their families, and large corporations. Vote for McCain/Palin if you must, but please, no excuses like you are "for less government." It will take years to peel back the enlargement of government action that occured under Bush,a nd its not going to happen under McCain/Palin.

aimai

aimai, you will not find me defending Bush/Cheney spending or the growth of government on their watch anywhere, anytime and my likely vote is a write-in. And besides, I think you're missing the point of my post.

mckinneytexas,
You ought to vote for Obama just to spite that "thin but detectable slice of rightwingers".

If you and others like you did that, the "thin but detectable slice" would be just a little more aware how thin it is.

The hard-core rightwingers want "more government" to a bigger degree than Obama, by the way. They want a government big enough to impose their minority views on a majority that rejects them.

You may think that a librul like me wants "more government" just to oppress and discomfit people like you, but it just ain't so. For one thing, there are many government programs I would scale back or cut out -- not the same ones as you, perhaps, but you and I can reasonably negotiate about that.

The "thin slice" you speak of is not interested in negotiating with you any more than with me. Vote for Obama just to spite them.

--TP

"I have faith in the USSS like I do for few other government organizations."

I don't mean to be a party-pooper all the time, but they're hardly an immaculate organization.

Particularly as regards race.

What I want to know is why, if we can sniff the freaking underwear of anyone with an Arabic name on the off chance they might be related to Al Qaeda, we can't roll up the white supremacist berserkers in this country.

These guys advertise, for crying out loud. They publish newsletters, have touring rock bands and record labels, have national gatherings. They openly advocate race war and the overthrow of the US government.

WTF does a bloodthirsty, insurrectionist white man have to do to attract the attention of the terror hounds?

Just a simple question.

Thanks -

WTF does a bloodthirsty, insurrectionist white man have to do to attract the attention of the terror hounds?

Just a simple question.

Be successful in a way that can't be spun away. And using a messy method. A sniper bullet (or firearms in general) would not trigger the "terrorism" but just the "assassination" label. Car bombs, Molotov cocktails etc. (not to speak of germs) may be sufficient provided enough eveidence is left that it can't be blamed on the brown ones again.

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