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October 02, 2008


ugh, I think this is going to be a really weird debate. We have the Ramblin Man and Babbling Betty.

But I agree with you, I think the chances of a Palin meltdown are slim.

I basically concur, but would argue that Palin's level of dysfunction also raises the bar significantly for a Biden "gaffe" - the press is going to have a pretty hard time maintaining a really obvious double standard, so they'll be much less likely to nail him on, say, a 'global test.' After all, from Palin that'd be lucid and well-informed.

My guess is that both candidates are going to strive to make this the most boring. debate. evah. (for totally different reasons).

So just make sure that there's an open thread for nit-picky candidate ridicule.

Palin's weakness is the follow-up question. Biden needs to ask them, probably in the form, "I wonder what Governor Palin would say to ...?".

Palin's strength is the vaccuous zinger. Biden needs to chuckle first, and then respond in kind. Respond doesn't mean rebut; he could even top her zinger against himself and come off looking better.

Palin will push terror and taxes, because that's what Republicans do. She will absolutely positively accuse Biden of equating patriotism with paying taxes. If Biden has any brains, he will plead guilty as charged and ask Palin where she thinks the money to fight 'the terrorists' comes from. When she claims, as she will, that "Obama will raise your taxes", Biden must respond that Palin ought to read Obama's tax plan before she talks about it -- and let that hang in the air for a few seconds.

If I was Biden and I had the chance, I would ask Palin whether high oil prices are good or bad for Alaska. But that's just me.

Best default advice to Biden: let Palin talk as much as possible:-)


Our investment banks are too big to fail.
Our families not so much.

What will future generations think, when they judge our values by our choices?

[insert obscenities of your choice here].

whoops - that comment was meant for the "Abandoning Children" thread. If have no idea what to make of the pre-debate hype. I await events on the latter score.

My guess is that both candidates are going to strive to make this the most boring. debate. evah. (for totally different reasons).

If Biden knows what's good for him, that's exactly what he'll do. I don't think he can really win this thing--the McCain campaign is going to spin something as sexist even if it isn't, and even if he wipes the floor with her, he was supposed to, so no big deal. But he can lose it, so best bet is to just lay low and let it ride over him.


Whatever the outcome, "ken" will declare Palin the winner and highlight/exaggerate any negatives attributable to Biden.

Because ken's a Democrat.

I'd put the chance and amount of awkward gibberish responses a lot higher. Palin has 90 seconds to fill after each question, and no script.
Spectacular meltdown, I just don't see happening. I keep thinking of a response she gave last saturday, during her Philadelphia pub visit:

"One supporter wished her luck on the trail and Palin said, "Thank you. I'm having so much fun.""

I believe her. I think she's having fun despite all the criticism and the mockery. She doesn't seem to worry a lot, if at all. If she spends any amount of time reflecting on her words, it is minimal - and she spends even less time considering them before blurting them out. I don't think that's something you can change in a year, let alone a few weeks. I personally wouldn't like to see it changed, I find this kind of carefree, unreserved personality to be endearing, even admirable. But it is potentially disastrous, especially for politicians of such high office as Vice President.

I expect quite a few disjointed, nonsensical answers from her, and probably a good amount of carefully crafted one-liners. I don't see Joe Biden making any missteps. He may give some passionate answers that the McCain campaign will condemn as blatant misogyny, but he will be as cordial and respectful with Palin as can be.

Eric- We Dems gotta' stick together, you know! That being said, I heard Biden eats baby kittens. Just wanted to put that out there.

Open question: Any ideas on how the McCain campaigns whining about Ifill's book will affect the spin? My guess is that if Ifill asks any question that Palin struggles with (ie Any foreign policy, economic, domestic, or legal question), they'll call it bias and try to claim that she would have done better had the moderator been fair.

I wonder why McCain didn't raise any objections back in July, though, when they knew Ifill would moderate. All the hard work of putting country first must've driven the thought out. I'm certain that it doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with Palin. McCain is an honorable man, after all.

He may give some passionate answers that the McCain campaign will condemn as blatant misogyny...

It really sickens me that McCain is going to call Joe Biden sexist or misogynistic. He's one of the best senators we have for women and their issues. I guess he did the Violence Against Women Act to cover up his secret hatred of anything with breasts.

“global test” wasn't a gaffe. If your point is that the Right will seize on something, anything, to claim there was a gaffe, then I'm sorry for missing your (indisputable) point.

The quote:

KERRY: The president always has the right, and always has had the right, for preemptive strike. That was a great doctrine throughout the Cold War. And it was always one of the things we argued about with respect to arms control.

No president, through all of American history, has ever ceded, and nor would I, the right to preempt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America.

But if and when you do it, Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons.

Here we have our own secretary of state who has had to apologize to the world for the presentation he made to the United Nations.

I mean, we can remember when President Kennedy in the Cuban missile crisis sent his secretary of state to Paris to meet with DeGaulle. And in the middle of the discussion, to tell them about the missiles in Cuba, he said, "Here, let me show you the photos." And DeGaulle waved them off and said, "No, no, no, no. The word of the president of the United States is good enough for me."

How many leaders in the world today would respond to us, as a result of what we've done, in that way? So what is at test here is the credibility of the United States of America and how we lead the world. And Iran and Iraq are now more dangerous -- Iran and North Korea are now more dangerous.

I had one other thought: Biden should talk as much about McCain's crappy record as possible, Palin probably can't correct the record.

I'm going to watch the debate on SNL.

Drinking game! You have to chug every time Palin says "darn"

Is it my bias, or is Biden winning big time?

She got the climate thing backward AGAIN!

Palin's doing way better than I thought. But Biden's winning just by actually answering the questions

Palin just said that she doesn't care about how climate change is caused, just in fixing the problem.

As Jon Stewart said last night, "How can you keep yourself from getting lung cancer if you don't know how you got it?"

Thankfully, Biden is pointing out this fallacy. (And tapping the table. What do you want to bet that when the inevitable columns attacking Biden for being too aggressive against Palin come out tomorrow that his tapping the table will be bantered about as one of the signs of his being a sexist bully.)

Palin is doing about as I expected (aren't I clever?). But Biden is doing vastly better. He's forceful, he's pointing out falsehoods, and he's not bloviating. Seems good to me, but no doubt others will disagree.

My god. I haven't heard anyone sound so... well... like a trained parrot as Palin does right now. Like, if you asked her to repeat what she just said in her own words, she'd just stare blankly at you. And squawk.

As a strongly pro-Israel individual, may I suggest that out-of-left-field support for Israel is the last refuge of someone who has no ide what else to say about Middle East issues.

Um, Palin just answered one question saying that we shouldn't meet with leaders like Ahmadinejad and then answered the next question about the five secretaries of state advocating engagement and replied that she agreed with Kissinger that we should meet with foreign leaders. Huh?

Also, Biden just nailed McCain for having said that he wouldn't necessarily meet with Spanish PM Zapatero. Score!

Oh come on. NOO-KLEE-UR. Maybe you learned it wrong, maybe it's a hard habit to break, but you are on NATIONAL TV on a PRESIDENTIAL ticket. At least correct yourself. It's kind of an important word.

Biden is en fuego.

if she says "maverick" one more time!!!

"Say it ain't so, Joe."

Good line. So is the one about the third graders.

"he is the man that we need to leave"

gotta agree with her there

I'm about 40 minutes behind, so far it seems like Publius' 30% possibility is the correct one...

If your drinking game required a shot of booze every time Sarah Palin said the word also, get thee to a hospital.


Btw, the real John McCain.

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