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September 01, 2008

Comments

Cathy:
Obviously you have already made up your mind. BTW "knocked up" is not a nice way to talk. Is that how you referred to yourself...where you knocked up. And as far as you not being able to handle one child and the VP position. Well ... Gee... I guess we wont be voting for you then. We want someone who CAN handle it.
Sorry

lj,

I'm having trouble logging on to Taking It Outside.

Anyway, dutchmarbel, guilty as charged: I laughed at the Maher joke.

And, yes, the morning of 9-11 might have been the most extreme situtation I could think of, but realizing working mothers -- my wife is one -- have enough on their plate, I do wonder how challenging it would be to be the President of the United States while the nation was under attack and taking care of the needs of a 5-month-old baby. (There was no sarcasm or snark intended there.)

Cathy Raymond just said: "I have one kid - not 5. No way in hell I could juggle kids and the vice presidency of the United States, and any woman who votes for her because of her gender is a idiot."

I think it's fair to recognize that President of the United States isn't an ordinary job, if you will.

(lj: I got the activation link mailed to me and thought I did as instructed, creating my password, etc. Perhaps you have to wait longer than an hour for it to take hold? Any ideas? BTW, I admire the stamina you and Jes are showing sticking with this thread -- every time I look at Recent Comments, "Children of Sarah Palin" appears again; the Energizer Bunny would be proud.)

I want someone with McCains character running our country. And having a Maverick like Palin at his side is such a bonus.

how many McCain points did you earn today?

"BTW 'knocked up' is not a nice way to talk."

Civility is great, but I hope this doesn't become a PC site when folks are speaking passionately and, in doing so, using everyday language.

Haven't seen it yet, but I believe "Knocked Up" was the title of a film that by most accounts is hilarious.

@Carlton: If you were reviewing those threads you must've come across that as well, and decided that I didn't deserve any benefit of the doubt regardless.
Furthermore, taking language that would be unremarkable if referring to a male and claiming that it's sexist when used on a female is sexist.

I said the REMARK is sexist, not that YOU are sexist. I don't think you are sexist, I don't say that the people who made the claims are sexist. *I* sometimes make sexist remarks 'cause I aint perfect either. Doesn't mean that people shouldn't call me on it if I happen to do it.

I disagree with "Furthermore, taking language that would be unremarkable if referring to a male and claiming that it's sexist when used on a female is sexist.". Context matters. If I compare Bush with a chimp that means he is dumb and I was slightly childish. If I compare Obama with a chimp that has a completely different dimension, and that has nothing to do with lowering the bar.

I have no idea what Turbulence said, I ignore him (as I said and explained earlier).

The rest seem like an attempt to pad out the list and justify her (IMO baseless) feeling that Democrats and Obama have been anti-woman.

I don't think this is the appropriate thread to talk about Obama/Biden. But I didn't say they were anti-woman, I said they were not great for women. Which (to answer Gary) doesn't mean that Biden didn't do a good thing in the anti-violence thing. (sorry, time for an early night here, I lack sleep so I am too tired to look everything up).

@Sebastian: have a great holiday.

And, yes, the morning of 9-11 might have been the most extreme situtation I could think of, but realizing working mothers -- my wife is one -- have enough on their plate, I do wonder how challenging it would be to be the President of the United States while the nation was under attack and taking care of the needs of a 5-month-old baby. (There was no sarcasm or snark intended there.)

Without wanting to invade your privacy I am curious now wether you work too.

Sorry, it's bedtime for me. I try to follow the thread, but skip the comments of newcomers. I'll try TIO tomorrow, if I can find a free moment.

dutchmarbel,

Thanks for clarifying that you don't read my comments. In the future, I'll try not to address you in my comments since you won't read them anyway. If you don't care enough about your analysis to read my critiques of it, then you'll forgive me for assuming that your analysis is worthless.

I said the REMARK is sexist, not that YOU are sexist. I don't think you are sexist, I don't say that the people who made the claims are sexist.

If someone who isn't sexist makes a remark that can easily be interpreted in a non-sexist way, I think it's genuinely rude to pretend that it is sexist for the purposes of compiling your list. Likewise, using obvious sarcasm, etc.

If I compare Obama with a chimp that has a completely different dimension, and that has nothing to do with lowering the bar.

Good point, and completely relevant to the current comments about how she cannot hope to govern with small children in her household.
But that doesn't allow us to distinguish between sexist criticism of a woman and non-sexist criticism of a woman. For example, many GOPers are now claiming that questioning Palin's experience is sexist.
And that is what I mean about hyperactivity over criticism actually turning into sexism. If we aren't allowed to discuss her experience in the same manner that we'd discuss a man's experience, then it's a bad double-standard for women, implying that they are too delicate for criticism.

In the end, virtually any criticism could be deflected in this manner (and I expect this will be the case). If Hillary is described as conciliatory, then could be sexist emphasis of her feminine side. If she's described as a brawler, that could be sexist emphasis on her failure to meet societal feminine expectations.
In the end, these sorts of things have to be weighed in with the context and the speaker. Chopping bits and pieces off and interpreting them in the most negative light is sure to produce evidence of sexism, but why bother?

"If someone who isn't sexist"

I don't believe there is such a person, any more than there is a person who is utterly and perfectly non-racist, or utterly and perfectly non-bigoted in any way.

We all have bits of sexist and racist and bigoted thinking inside us that pops out sometimes. Sometimes we notice it, and sometimes we don't. We live in a culture that has deeply sexist, racist, bigoted threads running through it. We can't help but be influenced by that in many ways.

The only differences are those of degree, and how self-aware we are.

But that's why it makes sense to focus on sexist/racist/bigoted statements and behavior, rather than labeling people in a binary way. We all can do better, and none of us is perfect.

dutchmarbel,

Yes, I work, 50-60 hours a week. My wife just added an extra day -- being commission-based, this economy is really hurting me -- so that puts her at 30 hours a week.

We only have one child, a 9-year-old I've probably talked about too much here, and between school work, karate and whatever else comes up, I can't imagine a big household like the Palin's. I didn't marry until age 40 and, at 45, while I would like another child, it just isn't going to happen -- if only because of finances.

I commend folks who handle more than we do and, yes, marvel at the fact that we could have a mother of five -- noting that one of them is an infant -- a heartbeat away from the presidency.

---

I find the sexism charges fascinating and bothersome -- yet fair game -- if only because what is and what isn't seems so arbitrary.

I mean, when I observed to my wife last night how great Cindy McCain looks, is that being sexist? (She agreed, by the way.)

Also, who is being sexist when I have heard both male and female pundits say Joe Biden had better be careful in the VP debates because "you can't be too hard on a woman" -- which, if Biden were, we all know he'd be the next day's story?

And I guess one last thing: Not saying it's right but Palin hasn't seen anything yet if you compare the past six days to what Hillary Clinton has faced the past two decades, going back to her Tammy Wynette remark.

A candidate’s children should be off-limits although the history of political parties and their political action committees suggest otherwise. Nothing, it seems, is truly off-limits today. Nevertheless, the positions of the politicians, including their positions on pre-marital sex, truthfulness regarding their own conduct, and their views on all sorts of national and international issues and actions are very much in play. The actions Mrs. Palin has taken or not taken to properly educate her children on sex-related matters would bear directly on how morally responsible she is. Parents have a moral responsibility to teach their children. Her support or opposition for sex education in public schools would be another indicator. The anecdotal evidence suggests that she is not morally responsible in these matters. Regarding her latest child, is it really her child or her grandchild? She seems to have hidden her last pregnancy far longer than nature would normally allow and I for one don’t believe that it is her child but rather her grandchild. She is 44 after all. If I am correct, this supports the conclusion that perhaps she is not as different from all other politicians as she purports to be.

I have come to like Sarah Palin more since her daughter's pregnancy has come out. It just proves that S.P. is a real person with real problems. Alot of the candidates that run for office have these well behaved, robotic children (ex.Chelsea Clinton, which never misbehaved and Barack Obama,whos girls look almost like robots in public...I have never seen children 7 and 10 that are that well behaved). Well I have 4 children and let me say that mine are not that well behaved. I would rather have someone in office that I can relate to. I would rather have someone that I can can look at as a role model and say that they handle situations in their family life just like any regular person would. I dont feel that Bristol's decision is a reflection of S.P. as a mother. Children tend to make their own decisions in life. You just have to try to teach them right from wrong and pray that they take something you've taught them and use it. Apparently, Bristol did take something her parents taught her. She made a very grown up decision to keep the baby and get married. She made the decision to take responsibility for her actions and I commend her for that. But this is just my opinion on the matter.

So basically, you're saying that people shouldn't talk about Sarah Palin's private life... by talking about her private life?

Also, there are some key issues with Bristol's pregnancy that are relevant. Here's the big one. Sarah Palin said in a press release, "We're proud of Bristol's **decision** to have her baby" Yet Sarah's stance is to outlaw abortion even in the case of rape. So Sarah wants to deprive other families the ability to make the decision her daughter had the right to make.
That is an important policy point/hypocrisy that should be brought up.

That is an important policy point/hypocrisy that should be brought up.

No, it isn't. They're stealing the word "choice." The choice is between getting married or giving the baby up for adoption, not between abortion or bringing it to term.

Not that there was a choice there, either. A VP's grandchild. Given up for adoption. No way will confidentiality be kept. No way that kid isn't the target of kidnappers, terrorists or extortionists.

I think it's stupid that the fact her 17-year-old daughter got pregnant is such a big deal..that happens pretty often and if she was anyone else's kid nobody would say anything.
I think Sarah palin did the right thing in saying she was supporting her daughter and hoped the media would respect her privacy. That should be the end of all the pointless talk.

Mrs. Palin says she is proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby??? So she had a choice? Why would she then take away MY daughter's choice? Or the choice of rape and incest victims?

What about the concept of having a family and marriage that serves as a model of good behavior, not bad behavior. If we are going to save ourselves we need positive role models for our children.

Senator Obamas children do not watch television, like our Christian family. My disabled 15 year son is also well behaved and well adjusted. Not a miracle just reality.

Palin has no idea how much her children are crying for attention, like her pregnant daughter who has many boyfriends...wait untill her disabled child gets to be two or three...her marriage will be on the block like 90% of marriages with disabled children. It is typically the Mother who advocates for the disabled child.

So,let me get this straight: Sarah Palin is a staunch Republican and supporter of John McCain's policies. So does that mean that since "MCSAME" believes in 75% pay for women who do the same job as men that she will agree to take a cut in the Vice-President's salary if she is elected?

I have been watching and reading all the info presented to the public on Gov. Palin and my only conclusion is that this "TWIT" needs to go home and stop embarrasing the rest of the hard working women and mom's of this great nation!

I believe that Palin placed her already distressed child in a fishbowl. (Threw her to the wolves is more accurate) Yes, I question her judgement as a parent, (not as a mother- a PARENT!)Therefore, it concerns me that if she does not have the best interests of her own family as a priority (as demonstrated repeatedly-traveling late in pregnancy, risking such a long flight WHILE IN LABOR, failing to prepare her children before the birth of a sibling with Down Syndrome, returning to work just days after this child's birth) why would she do better making decisions related to my family? Her naivete about or disregard for the immediate and very significant needs of her children is evidence enough her faulty and self-centered judgement. I don't want her involved in decisions affecting my family or students. Is she really someone who will restore the world's respect for our great country?????

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