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September 04, 2008

Comments

They’ve realized that they need to be the “change” candidate.

Is that even possible at this point? I think Obama has done a terrific job of tying McCain and Bush together while sticking to the change narrative himself. Its just too late in the game for McCain to make Obama a member of the DC 'Establishment,' and I'm not sure he could pull it off even if he'd started a couple months ago.

Hell, even I sort of liked the old McCain in 2000.

I remember looking at the Republican field in January thinking that they would all be total disasters for the country except for McCain. Even though I'd obviously prefer Obama (or Hillary, for that matter) to win, if McCain won, I'd have been okay with it. 2000 McCain was a likable guy who, even though I disagreed with, seemed principled and an actor in good faith. After seeing the Rove/Atwater campaign, though, and his willingness to embrace it, I've lost all respect for the man. I know politicians say and do things to get elected, but for the one GOP guy in the field that seemed decent to fall this far...

If the Presidency were a prize and not a job, ex-POW McCain might deserve it as a sort of Lifetime Achievement Award in the Field of Patriotism.

I feel for his suffering, too, but I would not hire a plumber just because he kept telling me his POW story. And telling me, and telling me.

--TP

Yeah, do we have presidencies to give all the other POWs?

Hell, even I sort of liked the old McCain in 2000.

I really really don't get this. The man has always been a war monger. His response to every international problem over the last 20 years has been to suggest bombing or invasion or at least saber rattling. His understanding of strategy and the limits of American power appear less than most teenage boys I grew up with. Calling Jerry Falwell names doesn't really compensate for a foreign policy that involves starting lots of wars and killing lots of innocent civilians while accomplishing nothing. I mean, I can understand imperialists even if I don't agree with them, but McCain's policy ideas are too incoherent to even qualify as imperialism.

Well the POW stuff is the owrst thing about John McCain, a man who was tortured as a POW, made a big show of being opposed to torture, and when push came to shove aided and abetted the torture and other war crimes of the Bush administration by helping them pass the DTA and the MCA.

Hypocrisy doesn't get any worse than that.

"I really really don't get this. "

In 2000, getting into a major war was pretty unthinkable for many of us too young to remember Vietnam.

He was also not running on an All-tax-cuts-all-the-time platform. I would have dearly liked to have seen a GOP candidate move past that formulation.

Lastly, in 2000, I found it a lot easier to believe the words coming out of his mouth. He hadn't doubled back and made himself look like a lying hypocrite in front of the nation.

Turb: At the time, I couldn't even vote, so I was more focused on personalities than issues. To me, McCain seemed like an honorable guy who, although he was on the other side of the aisle, was basically decent. I see Anthony's post and his thoughts are pretty similar to mine, more eloquently expressed. ^.^

I'd like to hear publius's thoughts, though, since I assume he delved deeper than I did.

Charles gittings: I agree, that's one of the things that, once I learned about it, made me lose the respect I had for McCain. And although anecdotes aren't data, I can remember my grandfather (Korea combat vet, engineering work in Vietnam) being livid when he learned of McCain's approval of torture. He told me that his Army buddies said they'd never vote for him because of that. Whether or not they'd vote for Obama I'm not sure, but I seriously doubt McCain could do anything to win back their votes.

In 2000, getting into a major war was pretty unthinkable for many of us too young to remember Vietnam.

I'd say that the Gulf War was pretty major. But put aside the question of major versus minor wars: when you have as much firepower as the US does, you can kill a vast number of people without mobilizing for a major conflict. Just because American forces aren't on the ground in force doesn't mean we're not racking up a staggering death toll.

Beyond that, if you think someone is a war monger who reacts to conflict by ramping up aggressiveness, isn't giving him the ability to launch nuclear wars really really bad? I mean, talking sensibly about taxes is great, but, you know, someone with the nuclear football really should have conflict resolution skills exceeding those of a five year old.

Beyond that, if you think someone is a war monger who reacts to conflict by ramping up aggressiveness, isn't giving him the ability to launch nuclear wars really really bad?

For me, my formative political development occurred during the Reagan years. We survived that, and in 2000 nuclear war was pretty much unthinkable, so no, it wasn't an issue.

Junior O'Daniel: "A lot of people like that reform. Maybe we should get us some."
Pappy O"Daniel: "I'll reform you, you soft-headed son of a bitch. How we gonna run reform when we're the damn incumbent? Is that the best idea you boys can come up with? Reform?! Weepin' Jesus on the cross. That's it! You may as well start drafting my concession speech right now."

The setup and the speech just reminded me of Bob Dole's campaign. I was a wounded veteran that underwent a tremendous struggle, I've worked for you in the Senate, I've been loyal to my country and now its time I get the office.

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