Speeches Open Thread

by publius

What'd you think?

9:22 -- God, I love Bill Clinton. I just can't not like him. Take this for example:

Our nation is in trouble on two fronts: The American Dream is under siege at home, and America's leadership in the world has been weakened.

. . .

But on the two great questions of this election, how to rebuild the American Dream and how to restore America's leadership in the world, he still embraces the extreme philosophy which has defined his party for more than 25 years, a philosophy we never had a real chance to see in action until 2001, when the Republicans finally gained control of both the White House and Congress. Then we saw what would happen to America if the policies they had talked about for decades were implemented.

With this, Clinton shows that he's still got something on the upstart. Those are two extremely clear meta-themes -- themes that simultaneously have both a positive and a confrontational tone. Plus, I think the "rebuild the dream" line has a more concrete dimension than what Obama has been offering. Plus, he's just great at the podium.

Comments

[br]

John Kerry kicked ass in a way I had no idea he was capable. That was so great.

And Bill owned. Man, this night has been so solid so far. I'm ... what's the phrase again?

Oh yeah: Fired up and ready to go. Let's win this.

[cleek]

missed most of Clinton (the end was good), but John Kerry was great. you can tell he takes the GOP attacks on patriotism seriously - personally, even.

[Benjamin]

Bill Clinton and John Kerry were on FREAKIN fire !
Go Democrats !

[Gary Farber]

"What'd you think?"

I think that having multiple open threads on the same day, day after day, on a blog with readership this size, is just as bad as going most of a week, or longer, with no open threads.

It just makes it impossible for people to have a coherent conversation while forcing them to constantly link to what they said on another substance-free thread with only a picture, or yesterday's open thread, etc.

It's all about balance.

Could I also suggest that if you want to post a bunch of pictures, that you post multiple pictures in a picture post, rather than creating new posts pointlessly for each picture?

[Harris]

Watching the video, only two tear-choked words came to mind: Andrew Olmsted.

Damn! He should have seen that tribute.

[Warren Terra]

To echo the above comments, Kerry was fan-freaking-tastic. I haven't heard all (or, really, most) of the speeches, but Kerry was the first I've heard to really give McCain's self-serving dishonesty the treatment it deserves. I admire the guts it took for Kerry to wrap himself in the Rovian smears to show how much better they fit McCain.

[RepubAnon]

Every Democrat's stump speech should start with a variation on Bill's theme above, something on the order of "The Republicans finally got the chance to implement their party's agenda. The result: our country's economy lies in ruins and our reputation has been dragged through Karl Rove's mud..."

[spockamok]

Bill Clinton just started explaining why conservative ideology sucks whenever there's an opportunty for it to be applied.

This is awesome. I've been waiting for this for years. Better this, than "well are the Republicans really conservative, with all their deficit spending?" or "I thought conservatives believed in limited government and the constitution", which are too clever by half argument that concede conservatism, in principal is superior ideology.

Nope - Clinton did the opposite, he said that for 25 plus years, back to the beginning of Reagan, Republicans have been pushing extremism, and in the last eight years we saw what happens when they really get the chance to try their ideas out.

[Gary Farber]

I missed Biden's speech, but caught the end where Obama came out. Playing Springsteen's "The Rising" was a perfect choice.

[Anthony Damiani]

Man, I remember not liking him during his administration. I took his lying very personally. Even now, when I hear him speak, I have to pinch myself and remember the things I didn't like about his administration.

But, then, I also took peace and some measure of sane economic policy for granted, as it's all I'd ever known.

In hindsight, he looks like a freaking SAINT.

[tomj]

What struck me most tonight was the ability of the speakers to get serious. Hillary really didn't hit that note. But Bill and Joe did. You can't focus a nation unless you can hit that note.

Given that, what is weird to me is that the Obama campaign has not hit McCain when he says that his ads are intended to be "fun".

When the clinically serious McCain defends his attacks as "having fun", Obama needs to attack with everything he has. Having fun with important issues? What will McCain "have fun" with once in office?

What has become clear is that few Democrats can hit that serious note, but Obama, Hillary, Bill, Joe and apparently John can do it. Seriousness telegraphs belief, be serious and attack McCain when he tries to use the "fun" card.

[Equal Opportunity Cynic]

But, then, I also took peace and some measure of sane economic policy for granted, as it's all I'd ever known.

I'm not a Democrat, and I really found WJC loathesome during his tenure in office. But that pretty much sums up my thinking now. I felt free to aspire higher for our president because I just took for granted that one couldn't be as cataclysmically awful as GWB has been.

[redwood]

our leader publius wrote:

With this, Clinton shows that he's still got something on the upstart. Those are two extremely clear meta-themes -- themes that simultaneously have both a positive and a confrontational tone. Plus, I think the "rebuild the dream" line has a more concrete dimension than what Obama has been offering. Plus, he's just great at the podium.

I don't follow you, publius. who is the upstart?

I agree Clinton is fascinating. And if by upstart, you refer to Obama, then I agree in part: Tonight, the real Clinton raised the rhetorical bar for the well-read audience, which Obama cannot survive without.

but I don't see the confrontational aspect. if you refer to Obama, it's like Clinton stands next to Obama and says, "let's see you top this."

that's being human at its best.

and if it's McCain as the upstart, well, Was there ever any doubt that the rhetoric of McCain would eclipse Clinton?

Scholars are going to be analysing his speech from now until...

[redwood]

oops, I mean, Did anyone ever think the rhetoric of McCain would eclipse Clinton?

[Tony P.]

Redwood, I bet you a beer that 'upstart' was a brain-fart by Publius. Or perhaps (since he was presumably typing) a hand-fart.

--TP

[Gary Farber]

"Redwood, I bet you a beer that 'upstart' was a brain-fart by Publius."

My read is that it was Publius being unclearly sarcastic in a way he's done before. (Being sarcastic successfully requires a set-up or context -- something to anchor and confirm for the reader that it's sarcasm; Publius tends to just drop it in cold as a singleton.)

And that it was a reference to Obama.

[Roger Moore]

Redwood,

I think that the "upstart" and "confrontational" aspects were aimed at different people. Obama is the upstart, but the confrontation is with McCain.

[kovarsky]

i bet you a beer that publius wrote that after ten beers.

[publius]

wow - sorry. yes, "upstart" was meant to be an affectionate term for obama. confrontation toward mccain.

I'm beat. I know this sort of quick post stuff isn't the style here -- and it's certainly not my preferred style. i couldn't blog like that. but, it's the convention and i've never been to one. and i thought people might find the different panels and pictures entertaining.

and gary - i had thought of a "miscellaneous pictures" post that I'll put below the fold

[Gary Farber]

Thanks, publius. And I apologize if it seems like I've been getting excessively on your case; I've been even more overly brusque than usual in the past couple of days, due to having lots and lots of horrible toothache pain, and it's made me more impatient than usual and more cranky than I should be.

Having written a lot of non-political convention reports over the decades, I'd suggest that the key is taking lots of notes (or dictating them into a voice recorder), and then writing something up each night, after alloting enough time to do that before being too tired. Otherwise it's pretty much hopeless until you get home.

But it takes a lot of willpower and some deliberate planning to set aside the time, and the temptation to just go Experience is certainly understandable.

[publius]

no worries gary - i'm leaving in the morning, so things we'll get back to normal soon

also, hilzoy got her computer stolen today

[Gary Farber]

"also, hilzoy got her computer stolen today"

Aww, hell, that sucks.

[John in Nashville]

I have been a yellow dog Democrat for all of my adult life, but if President Clinton had asked me for advice in 1997, I would have urged him to resign for displaying atrocious judgment. (I did not favor his impeachment.)

With benefit of hindsight, in view of the doofus-in-chief's deception about weapons of mass distraction, lawless interception of telephone communications, torture of captives, the culture of secrecy and character assassination and the complete politicization of executive agencies (e.g., allowing black Louisianans to die or move to Texas so as to turn a purple state blood red,) a few blowjobs from an intern don't look nearly as bad.

[Jesurgislac]

also, hilzoy got her computer stolen today

Oh, hell, that's ...ranging from really bloody annoying to major disaster. Hoping for the former.

[Warren Terra]

Geez, I was all set to write about how I wished we'd taken up a collection to send Publius & Hilzoy to the DNCC so we'd be entitled to complain that one was writing very little and the other not at all, and then I see Publius's post about Hilzoy's computer. That is just all kinds of lousy. I hope everything was backed up, but even if it was, and even if she can afford the expense involved, these days losing your computer likely means days spent replacing credit cards, changing passwords, all that lot. No fun in the very slightest.

[jonnybutter]

That is appalling news about Hilzoy's computer. OUCH!

Biden flubbed a lot of lines in his speech. It wasn't fatal, but he was a little tongue-tied at times. He warmed up by the end, but I think it blunted the effectiveness a little - at least in the context of the *whole* speech.

His best line was 'We need more than a good soldier, we need a leader' (not verbatim, but close). Don't know if that's enough, but it was pretty good.

I am getting tired, however, of hearing (at the DNC) what a 'good man' McCain is. I don't see any evidence that he is an especially good man, at least qua politician. Enough already.

[KCinDC]

Democrats used that "good man" line about George Bush for years. I don't understand the point. You don't have to say your opponent is evil, but why gratuitously praise him? That was one of the bits of Bill's speech I didn't like.

And I'm sorry to hear about Hilzoy's computer.

[bedtimeforbonzo]

publius,

I am enjoying the pictures. TV -- despite having 300,000 correspondents there -- isn't really doing much of this.

Feel bad for hilzoy -- that stinks.

[Turbulence]

You don't have to say your opponent is evil, but why gratuitously praise him? That was one of the bits of Bill's speech I didn't like.

My guess is that it is a way of neutralizing the media's irrational adoration of McCain. Many people in the media really do think of McCain as some sort of holy saint in the cult of America. To criticize him is like criticizing Jesus -- they can't process it. So the only way to get your attacks into the mainstream discourse is to inoculate them by saying that you like McCain. That way, you're starting from a position that the media at least understand as not being completely crazy. But if you don't include the honorific, all the media will hear when you attack McCain is "blah blah blah I want to eat children after boiling them alive and I hate puppies and kittens and sunshine and I think we should destroy the sun blah blah blah".

[Turbulence]

Also, I'm sorry about hilzoy's laptop too. Is that the sort of thing covered under homeowner's insurance?

[bedtimeforbonzo]

The military tribute was breathtaking. It put a human face on our troops that I think has been missing during the Bush "Mission Accomplished" Adminstration.

I don't know if the video would have played so well at the GOP convention -- too many flag-draped coffins, too many young soldiers without limbs, too many displaced families, too much reality.

One nitpick: Gen. Clark would have been a worthy speaker.

[Russell]

John Kerry rocked the house. Best speech I've ever seen him give.

Also, I loved the hints of levity in Bill and Joe's speeches. Is it so hard for other people to put a couple jokes in their speeches? All those lame-o governors with the drizzling platitudes are so self-serious, I almost can't watch.

PS: Hilzoy, maybe we could take up a collection to help you replace your computer? Since you're the best blogger on earth and everything ;)

[Tony P.]

Just saw the news about Hilzoy's computer. What a bummer. You'd almost rather get your car stolen these days. Any hope of getting it back?

--TP

[JanieM]

Second Russell's suggestion and blogger rankings. ;)

Not that I don't like the other front-pagers here, but I miss hilzoy!

[redwood]

I know this sort of quick post stuff isn't the style here -- and it's certainly not my preferred style. i couldn't blog like that.

no wonder I find Obsidian Wings (and your writing, in particular) superior.

[ThatLeftTurnInABQ]

not much to add - I'm really sorry about hilzoy's computer and Gary's tooth.

But if you don't include the honorific, all the media will hear when you attack McCain is "blah blah blah I want to eat children after boiling them alive and I hate puppies and kittens and sunshine and I think we should destroy the sun blah blah blah".

What Turb said.

Biden flubbed a lot of lines in his speech. It wasn't fatal, but he was a little tongue-tied at times

I thought it was endearing - the guy has spent how many years in DC and he still can't deliver a speech without tripping over his own tongue? To me it gave Biden a touch of authenticity, it made him seem more like a regular guy. Of course I'm terribly biased so who knows how swing voters saw it.

[jonnybutter]

The tripping on the tounge stuff wasn't so bad. But he garbled the tax issue, saying that BO was going to give a tax *increase* to big corporations/wealthy people (why do they always say, 'the wealthiest among us', or 'the wealthiest Americans'?). It just wasn't clear, as I think these things need to be, for those very same swing voters. One might say, 'everybody knew what he meant', but I wonder. I don't assume that a typical swing voter knows basic facts.

[jonnybutter]

also...

Kerry: Wow. I'm with Josh Marshall that it was the best big name speech so far.

[gwangung]

Collection for hilzoy? I'm there...

[Sebastian]

OMG! I knew the Democratic convention would turn out to be a disaster for the American public.

Hilzoy had her computer stolen there!

Why doesn't anyone listen to me? :)

[Donald Johnson]

This will probably get lost in the shuffle, but there's a request for people's favorite popular science books at the link below. They'll decide on a top 100 list after looking at all the suggestions. here's the link

[Gary Farber]

So this is an open thread.

[Jeff]

I knew the Democratic convention would turn out to be a disaster for the American public.

Hilzoy had her computer stolen there!

Limbaugh told his followers to disrupt the Convention. I had no idea this was what he meant!