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August 01, 2008

Comments

I will join friends, but not Mr farber. He's not the only one who enjoys an open thread.

Mr Ledger's acting was a notch above the usual, but I don't think he was the only one who could have played that part, nor brought the same intensity to another part.

The Riddler calls for a different kind of intensity, a laser-sharp bright stare. I'd like to see one of our more adept non-white actresses play the part (Angelea Basset or CCH Pounder?), just to stir the pot.

Holy moly! McCain has gone batsh!t. He wants to apply "Surge"-style tactics to American cities. I'd agree with him if we had a violent counter-insurgency blowing up carbombs everyday in crowded markets and launching Katuyshas at town hall, but we don't.

Vote For Tanks n' T-Walls on Main Street...Vote John McCain!

Also, why does Gary Farber not like me =(.

LT Nixon, I've seen what Gary does to people he doesn't like, and I'm pretty sure that it is not fair to say that he doesn't like you.

I for one shall be clobbering my tongue and digestive track, rather than my liver. Mmmm... all-you-can-eat dosa... Tonight shall be a spice binge.

In the interests of diplomacy, I shall firmly bite my tongue wrt the quasi-official thread topic.

Holy moly! McCain has gone batsh!t. He wants to apply "Surge"-style tactics to American cities.

Jeebus, he's turned into Rudy Guiliani, only instead of answering every question with a reference to nineleven, he answers with "the surge."

Wow. Spot on Ugh.

Mr Ledger's acting was a notch above the usual, but I don't think he was the only one who could have played that part, nor brought the same intensity to another part.

I thought he was Daniel Day-Lewis-esque.

But out of curiosity, who do you think could have pulled that off? Not saying no one could, just want to hear who the candidates would be.

How about we declare victory in the drug war and legalize most drugs?

Am I the only one that was completely taken out of it whenever Batman pops up and starts delivering lines with that ridiculous raspy voice?

The Riddler calls for a different kind of intensity, a laser-sharp bright stare. I'd like to see one of our more adept non-white actresses play the part (Angelea Basset or CCH Pounder?), just to stir the pot.

There's been a rumor about David Tennant of Doctor Who fame in the role. That would be ten kinds of awesome, let me say.

But out of curiosity, who do you think could have pulled that off? Not saying no one could, just want to hear who the candidates would be.

Michael Chiklis springs to mind. From "The Commish" to Vic Mackey? That's RANGE!

Possibly Jamie Foxx, Morgan Freeman, or Neil Patrick Harris.

===============

Keannu Reeves in "The Day The Earth Stood Still"? Please tell me he's playing Gort.

That would be ten kinds of awesome, let me say.

Why does the Riddler have to be a white man? The Joker has to be a guy unless you totally change the dynamic of Harley Quinn (although I've seen some of the eps where she teams up with Poison Ivy, and that might not be a Bad Thing...), but why so with The Riddler?

(I've not watched any of the current DR Who, so can't comment one way or the other on how appropriate Mr Tennant might be.)

So, was anyone else thinking that article in the WaPo about how Obama's too healthy to be President was a little weird? ">It makes sense now! ... Much as I wish that it didn't.

Seriously, that's just unbelievable.

Oops, fixed link.

Oh, and it was the WSJ, not the WaPo. Oh, whatever, don't listen to me anyway -- just read the link about the intrepid reporter soliciting quotes for the article from Yahoo! message boards.

I'll be over here checking out this rabbit hole to see how deep it goes.

Why does the Riddler have to be a white man?

He doesn't have to. I'm just a big fan of Tennant, and think he'd do a hell of a job in the role. Watch any of the last three seasons of Doctor Who and you'll probably see what I'm talking about.

Frankly, I hope that if there IS a third film -- and although Bale, Caine and Freeman are all signed for one, Nolan is not, and there's no obligation on the part of WB to make one -- they avoid The Riddler and, frankly, Catwoman altogether. I don't know that they could exist in the more realistic milieu that this particular version of the franchise is going for. I'd rather see a lesser known but more compatible villain like Deadshot, or Bane.

>>Keannu Reeves in "The Day The Earth Stood Still"? Please tell me he's playing Gort.

Actually, if you think back to Michael Rennie's performance, Keanu isn't really wooden enough to play Klaatu.

Whoa! I wonder if the ad line is going to be "Keanu = Klaatu"

Frankly, I hope that if there IS a third film -- and although Bale, Caine and Freeman are all signed for one, Nolan is not, and there's no obligation on the part of WB to make one -- they avoid The Riddler and, frankly, Catwoman altogether. I don't know that they could exist in the more realistic milieu that this particular version of the franchise is going for.

Which version of the Riddler?

RE: “Bye Bill.” ZAP.
-At the end of a long thread “Rat”

Here is my http://brickoven.blogspot.com/2008/08/banished.html ">Banishment Appeal.

If this appeal is denied or not officially acknowledged, I will go silently into the night. Unless, of course, if my defense above is sent down the old memory tube by erasing this post.

I acknowledge that I have no rights here. But if this forum, that claims to encourage open discussions of the issues facing our nation, denies me the right to defend my character, it should be revisited on rare occasions. Seventh Amendment and all that.

In either case, I’ve enjoyed the debate and would especially like to thank Gary Farber, John Thullen, Russell, Slartibartfast, thatleftturninABQ, and the headliners, specifically mentioning Katherine, for their insights.

If they are still selling cheese at Sam’s Club and you can answer a few simple identity-screening questions, look me up if you find yourself heading to Maine. I make excellent pizza. I have a horseshoe court and beer.

Ghost: Acknowledged. My mind is unchanged.

My husband seems to have heard some rumors about Johnny Depp as the Riddler. It works for me - he acts some good crazy and he's already proven he's willing to wear less-than standard clothing. I have to agree with Phil, though, and wonder how they'll adapt the character to fit the film style.

I wonder if the next Batman movie will bs Batman vs the US Government. Torture, beating up suspects, mass surveillance, collateral damage on civilians, does anything he wants and is above the law.

Who needs Batman when you've got Bush around?

My husband seems to have heard some rumors about Johnny Depp as the Riddler. It works for me - he acts some good crazy and he's already proven he's willing to wear less-than standard clothing.

Saw that earlier today elsewhere. The article making the claim was unsourced and not particularly credible.

And as awesome as Johnny Depp is, I'm really not sold on notion of him in a Batman movie. (Also not a huge fan of the Riddler, frankly.)

In fact, Dark Knight was so awesome and did so many of the things I've been waiting my entire life to see in a Batman movie, the talk of a sequel -- inevitable though it may be -- kind of gets me down. I'm skeptical that anything could top that.

And really, there's enough movies in the franchise already -- I wish they'd quit while they're ahead.

Gary Farber & Friends

sounds like a band at a state fair

"Also, why does Gary Farber not like me"

I don't not like you in the slightest.

I don't particularly know you, but I have nothing whatever against you, guy. I argue with stuff I think worth, or at least that I feel like, arguing with, regardless of who it comes from.

Moving on, I'm going to take Brick Oven Bill's plea at face value, and respond to it; naturally, I speak only for myself.

I do have some concern about some seeming arbitrariness in Bill's banning; I prefer such things should be done transparently, and with clear rules, and I remain totally unclear how it is that some people are banned permanently, some temporarily, and many who have clearly committed far worse or equally deliberate violations in the past were not banned (DaveC and Jes, to name two; frankly, my considered response to their not getting even a temporary banning from some past comments was that it simply wasn't possible to be banned, and anything goes; I don't understand any consistent standard that could ban anyone yet banned, and not have banned them); this seems to indicate clear arbitrary favoritism. I also have no idea why some people get temporary bans, and others apparently permanent. If Hilzoy or anyone can explain how that works, non-arbitrarily, I'd really like to know.

To be sure, if it's simply arbitrary, then that's the privilege of the blogowners. I'd just like to be clear about it.

However, having said that, I'm not inclined to protest the decision at all; I simply think more clarity in the rules, and more consistent enforcement, is desirable, and that's all.

My response to Brick Oven Bill centers around this explanation by him:

[...] I concluded that interaction by linking to some song lyrics that I thought were good, and noting one comment that I thought sounded like Phil, stating that this particular commenter might be Phil. The comment I referred to was nothing too offensive, it was someone who stated that the song lyrics were really about FOX News. It is absurd to think that a random comment on some website would be Phil and I judged that a reasonable person would recognize this.
The problem here, Brick Oven Bill, if we take your explanation at face value, is that all along you've played at trolling, at "tweeking," at deliberately trying to annoy people, while trying to work the rules like a rules lawyer. You refer repeatedly to using sarcasm, but your POV and style is sufficiently incoherent and inconsistent enough that I strongly doubt if anyone -- certainly it would be a rare person -- could tell when you were being "sarcastic" or sincere. Asking that your comments be interpreted according to what a "reasonable person" would believe is not consistent with your style of deliberately trying to emotionally provoke and offend people.

Thus you wind up hoisted on a petard of your own making.

Next venue, try a little less sarcasm, and a little more clarity, and a lot less "tweeking," ("tweaking," maybe?) and you won't have so much danger of this problem, I suggest.

Lastly, as you have a blog of your own, and can comment freely on a zillion other blogs, and this blog is not run by the government, there's no "free speech" issue whatever. Your speech remains free as ever; you simply have no claim to demand the use of someone else's platform, and that's all there is to it.

Meanwhile, do try reading Dreams From My Father; it's good reading, and who knows what you might make of it.

Superman vs. Batman is still doable. Light Knight vs. Dark Knight.

And I'd like to hope that Justice League won't suck, but that's pushing the odds. Still, we have the Timmverse version, and that's mostly, with a few early exceptions, fine, particularly the Unlimited seasons.

The Foundation movie will probably suck, too.

In fact, Dark Knight was so awesome and did so many of the things I've been waiting my entire life to see in a Batman movie, the talk of a sequel -- inevitable though it may be -- kind of gets me down. I'm skeptical that anything could top that.

Of course, the capstone movie - the one that would make this a real trilogy - is the movie where at the end of it, Batman realizes that he's been wasting his time running around Gotham in his bulletproof underwear, hangs up the batsuit for good, gets a good therapist, and starts figuring out ways to use his brains, his money, and his hard-assed attitude to actually do some good for the people of Gotham.

You know - the movie where Batman finally grows up and finally stops being the teenager angry at the world and starts figuring out how to be an adult.

"You know - the movie where Batman finally grows up and finally stops being the teenager angry at the world and starts figuring out how to be an adult."

Nobody has ever had this insight before!

This changes my entire view of the movie and superhero comics.

Talking about that borderline. Who needs laptops and computers, anyway, when you travel? Or privacy?

Batman realizes that he's been wasting his time running around Gotham in his bulletproof underwear, hangs up the batsuit for good, gets a good therapist, and starts figuring out ways to use his brains, his money, and his hard-assed attitude to actually do some good for the people of Gotham.

That's basically what Brian Vaughan's Ex Machina is.

Gary's post on August 1 at 10:08 OWT (ObWi Time) is sensible to me.

Now, in an effort to provoke, five propositions for one or all of you to dispute:

Thesis: Oliver Stone's JFK is a pretty good movie, but its themes were first (and better) made in The Misfits' "Bullet." Glenn Danzig is also more perceptive observer of Jackie O post-JFK. (For those of who would replace "perceptive" with "profane," I remind you of the concept of metaphor.) It is telling that Bullet packs more meaning into 2 minutes than Oliver Stone fits into 2+ hours.

Thesis 2: Fugazi's "The Argument" is holding up very well. Although you'll never get me to admit it, an observer might conclude that it is superior to "13 Songs".

Thesis 3: Avatar: The Last Airbender deserves more attention; it's like Buffy in anime form. Pity, now, that it's over. M. Night Shamalamading-dong better not f-ck up the live action movie (yes, he's directing).

Thesis 4: Justice Hugo Black was right in his dissent in Graver Tank: The Doctrine of Equivalents contradicts the plain language of 35 U.S.C. 112, paragraph 2. The Doctrine should have died with the 1952 Patent Act. How can patent law requie "one or more claims particularly pointing out and distinctly claiming the subject matter which the applicant regards as his invention," but let the invention includes subject matter that's not even mentioned in the claims?

Thesis 5: Song for song, Pink Floyd's best album is Meddle. This is not he same thing as saying that Meddle is Pink Floyd's best album.

but not Mr farber.

As for me and my house, I will happily join with Mr Farber on any occasion.

Thus you wind up hoisted on a petard of your own making.

That's how I make it out. Verbal jousting is pretty acceptable on blogs. Jerking folks around, less so.

Just my two cents, FWIW.

On other topics:

Frank Gorshin was actually an excellent Riddler. Depp would be good, but he has a kind of languor that seems out of character for that part. It needs a bit of manic edge.

It might be entertaining to see Michael Keaton return to the Batman franchise as a villain. Riddler might be right up his alley.

On paper, the idea of opening the Riddler to women seems fine, but I can't think of anyone who would really fit.

Thanks -

On paper, the idea of opening the Riddler to women seems fine, but I can't think of anyone who would really fit.

For some reason I could see Charlize Theron pulling it off. I'm not sure why. Nicole Kidman? Jodie Foster? I think it depends on how you see the character. I don't like the Jim Carrey take on the Riddler, but as I said, not my favorite character in the first place, so I'm not sure what I'd be looking for if I had to cast the role.

What it comes down to is that the Joker is my favorite villain of all time and Heath Ledger nailed it, and now considering any other Batman villain seems like such a let-down. Sigh.

Well, I just got home from seeing Dark Knight, and I echo the host -- I thought Heath Ledger was really something.

It was about 45 minutes too long for me, but I'm not complaining too much.

Oh, and I saw the trailer for Watchmen. I don't know how I'm going to go 9 months keeping my fingers crossed that it'll be good enough not to break my (and some millions other fans') heart(s).

Just saw Swing Vote, and it was good for some chuckles (I recommend seeing it with a buzz). Dirty Harry's has a good write-up, but Rotten Tomatoes gave it a lousy 31%, which was undeserved. Pretty funny satire on the sleaziness of modern-day politics.

I don't not like you in the slightest.

I don't particularly know you, but I have nothing whatever against you, guy. I argue with stuff I think worth, or at least that I feel like, arguing with, regardless of who it comes from.

I have a lot of complexes and paranoia issues when it comes to blogging. Primarily, that netrootsy bloggers want me to go off in a corner and die. And secondly, that someone will file a FOIA request that could get me in a little bit of trouble (not much, but maybe a little). It's all irrational and doesn't have any basis in reality, but I'm a pretty messed up person. However, I do enjoy leaving comments with a group that is primarily liberal, and I'm glad you didn't take anything the wrong way. Thanks!

"I have a lot of complexes and paranoia issues when it comes to blogging. Primarily, that netrootsy bloggers want me to go off in a corner and die."

I don't know how "netsrootsy" I am, but I'm perfectly happy to have you around here, and would miss you if you went away. I enjoy your presence. Okay?

Thesis 5: Song for song, Pink Floyd's best album is Meddle. This is not he same thing as saying that Meddle is Pink Floyd's best album.

Hmmmm . . . plausible, but I disagree. I think that, song for song, Pink Floyd' best album is Wish You Were Here. As it happens, I also think this is their best album. Runner-up is Piper At The Gates Of Dawn, with Meddle a close third.

"Primarily, that netrootsy bloggers want me to go off in a corner and die."

Not me. ;)

I have a lot of complexes and paranoia issues when it comes to blogging. Primarily, that netrootsy bloggers want me to go off in a corner and die.

Hey LT, I doubt anyone here has it in for you. On the contrary. I enjoy reading your stuff.

If you come to the kitty's house in good faith, you are not sent to the corner to die. Kitty only uses her powers for good.

That's why we like the kitty.

Thanks -

Thesis 2: Fugazi's "The Argument" is holding up very well. Although you'll never get me to admit it, an observer might conclude that it is superior to "13 Songs".

Blasphemer!

Primarily, that netrootsy bloggers want me to go off in a corner and die

Blasphemer!

This might be a good read too.

"This might be a good read too."

Jeez, if you want to recommend a good libertarian/conservative book, try this or this or this, or this, any of a dozen other solid books of interesting reading. Jonah's book has been trashed by most conservative reviewers. Anyone who actually read many conservative thinkers or book reviewers would know that.

Good recos Gary. I haven't read any of them. Since I'm always whining about not knowing what the hell it is conservatives are on about, I probably should.

A couple of quick questions:

If the minimal state is the way things ought to be, why is that not what actually happens? Isn't it likely that the most naturally beneficial structure would, somewhere, somehow, just emerge through the normal operation of public human life?

Why, when conservatives argue against state control, do they so often focus on the economy? Are all aspects of public life to be viewed through an economic lens?

WRT the second set of questions, for Hayek, maybe his emphasis on the economic sphere was due to his historical context. But with the exception of, frex, folks at Cato, conservatives seem OK with state interference in other areas of life. I'm talking about things like civil and constitutional rights, "values" issues, etc.

Just sincerely curious. Answers like "just read the book" are OK.

Thanks -

A few things.
1.) Anyone have trouble loading ObWi last night? (And Balloon Juice and Andrew Sullivan) The pages would load, then I'd get an error message saying that, no, the pages were unavailable.
2.) I saw The Dark Knight with a lady friend last night. Fortunately the movie was pretty good, especially Mr. Ledger. Unfortunately the young lady was smitten by Mr. Bale. (He has 'nice arms.' I'm a scrawny wimp.)
3.) Any video game fans? 'Cuz I just picked up a new RPG and I want to gush about how the Shin Megami Tensei series is better than sliced bread. ^.^

"For some reason I could see Charlize Theron pulling it off."

I could see Charlize Theron pulling off anything.

MeDrewNotYou:

Had the same problem as you.

Went on to ObWi before doing our Hershey Park tickets online -- I am assuming we saved money for tomorrow's day trip by doing that; who knows? -- to see reaction to the Charlton Heston/"The One" ad and simply could not get on.

And as someone who is frustrated about anything having to do with computers, I was pounding the keys hard, like an idiot. How stupid.

By the way, Hilzoy, I know Maureen Dowd refers to Obama as "The One" in her columns.

Not sure if she came up with the term or if she "got it" from the McCain camp.

MeDrewNotYou: It was SiteMeter. Took out many blogs. They updated some code and everyone hitting any blog that uses Sitemeter with IE6/7 was getting that.

I didn't have the issue here though.

FWIW:

I wish BOB had reigned things in a bit. Because while ObWi is regarded as a liberal blog -- I like to think of it as fair-minded and thought-provoking -- I also feel so-called conservative and even right-leaning viewpoints can only add to the health and vibrancy of the discourse.

Just me and my computer illiterate viewpoint.

Since this is an Open Thread . . .

I was wondering . . .

Anyone else w/ a boss who is a Real Asshole, the kind of person who makes Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde look like a good guy?

And how best do you handle such a personality?

BOB never struck me as particularly 'conservative' or 'right-leaning'. I found him to be deliberately disruptive (as he's subsequently admitted to being with his comments re: 'tweeking' [sic -- insert allusion to meth abuse here]) and hungry for attention--pretty much a textbook definition of a troll. Even in the 'please reconsider' comment above, BOB singles out Katherine, whom he 'tweeked' by repeatedly threatening to forcibly take her as a sex slave after teh Mooslims establish a polygamous caliphate in NA (uppity wimmins hate that sort of thing, natch).

Classy with a capital ASS.

Frankly, I find it insulting to the many conservative/right-of-centre commenters at ObWi who are genuinely interested in dialogue (and don't knowingly and regularly kill threads with overtly racist/misogynistic/antisemitic/Islamophobic/idiocractic digressions) to include a garden variety troll like BOB (whom I still suspect to be a parody of some sort, but regardless...) in their ranks.

Talk about sucking and ruining the site -- BOB was a swirling vortex of FAIL. Good effing riddance.

bedtime -- I had the same problem last night on this and a number of other sites (including 3 Quarks Daily and Andrew Sullivan). But...not on others. I use DSL for my internet, but I have a neighbor who has cable/wireless that I can get onto if the need arises. And I have college-age kids at home right now who have laptops of their own. So when I start wanting to do violence to my keyboard, I can run a little experiment to see if it's my computer, my internet connection, a portion of the web, the web at large, or whatever.

Or -- if I feel a little saner, I can go take a walk.

Last night, I did both. ;)

"Any video game fans?"

My copy of Company of Heroes just arrived, and I'm installing it now, if that offers any clue. (I tend to always get games a couple of years after they're out, when the price has dropped to under $10; otherewise the only newer games I get is if someone gifts me; and only PC, no console; and this is the first game I've bought in more than a year.)

"Any video game fans?"

My copy of Company of Heroes just arrived, and I'm installing it now, if that offers any clue. (I tend to always get games a couple of years after they're out, when the price has dropped to under $10; otherewise the only newer games I get is if someone gifts me; and only PC, no console; and this is the first game I've bought in more than a year.)

Mattbastard,

I was speaking in general terms, not meaning to describe BOB as "conservative" or "right-leaning."

He certainly was "deliberately disruptive."

And while I am overly fond of dogs, he seemed to be way enamored with potatoes.

Just ask russell.


Anyone else w/ a boss who is a Real Asshole, the kind of person who makes Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde look like a good guy?

And how best do you handle such a personality?

Not currently, but I've been there. Best thing is to either get away, or grow some very thick skin.

Incidentally about that whole sexual assault in the military thing.

Janiem,

Sitemeter broke the internet last night for IE7 users, but it should be fixed.

Thanks, LT Nixon. Rumor has it that if I were a really modern person I would be using Firefox and not IE. Maybe I'll get around to it one of these days.

3.) Any video game fans? 'Cuz I just picked up a new RPG and I want to gush about how the Shin Megami Tensei series is better than sliced bread. ^.^

Blasphemer!

Blasphemer!

You would spurn Nethack for such frippery?

Janie,

I like Firefox for the sole reason I have to use IE at work.

"Primarily, that netrootsy bloggers want me to go off in a corner and die."

Not me. ;)

Whoops. I should probably stop leaving comments on ObWi when I'm drunk and acting like a schoolgirl. My apologies.

Gary said Next venue, try a little less sarcasm, and a little more clarity, and a lot less "tweeking," ("tweaking," maybe?) and you won't have so much danger of this problem, I suggest.

Why? Meth is such a classy drug. Just ask the guy whose house got blown up from shaving match heads into a home-made solvent.

Grumble grumble grumble http://brickoven.blogspot.com/2008/08/response-to-comments.html ">booo.

Gee, most adults, when they're told to get the heck off another person's property, do so without incident. Watch out for your potatoes, hilzoy.

RE: BOB- Gary provided a http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/07/i-came-as-a-rat.html#comment-124899586>link to a great NYT article at the end of that thread, I highly recommend taking a look. (All credit is due to Gary, though!)

Gary- I'm mostly into consoles, since until recently, I had a PC that had a stroke if you looked at it funny. http://www.t-o-m-e.net/main.php?tome_current=0>T.o.M.E.. is probably my favorite PC game, though. Very low system requirements and its freeware. I strongly suggest downloading the game, especially if you're into Olde Tyme RPGs. Its in the style of Rogue, with text-based graphics, but simply immense with all the race, class, and skill choices and with a huge world to explore based on Middle Earth. (For those inclined to tabletop RPGs, it feels a lot like 3rd edition Dungeons & Dragons.)

RTS games are fun, but I tend to be no good at them, so don't expect me to buy Company of Heroes and let you stomp all over me. ^.^

NV- NetHack actually looks pretty cool. As you can see above, I like Roguelikes. I find your charges of blasphemy well placed, though, because I just got the demon Beelzebub in my party. Oh, those crazy Japanese and the stuff they put in their games!

Getcher Firefox here.

Get it while it's hot!

Get it while it's hot!

I don't buy (or download!) http://www.siia.net/piracy/report.asp?gclid=CPmOmuDW8JQCFQVkswodhBOXrQ>stolen goods. You, sir, will make me up to $1,000,000!

"I don't buy (or download!) stolen goods. You, sir, will make me up to $1,000,000!"

Um, what?

T.o.M.E.. is probably my favorite PC game, though. Very low system requirements and its freeware. I strongly suggest downloading the game, especially if you're into Olde Tyme RPGs. Its in the style of Rogue, with text-based graphics, but simply immense with all the race, class, and skill choices and with a huge world to explore based on Middle Earth.

I played that some years ago on an (by that time already) old Pentium 166 (using graphical tiles though). Of all the angband variants, I probably spend the most time with it. I found the the hengband variant also very interesting, especially since I'm fond of Japanese console RPGs myself.
I didn't manage yet to find the time to pick up these games on my current computer, in terms of roguelikes I mostly play the pretty (for a roguelike) Elona now. It's translation from Japanese is still in progress, but most of is done and it's perfectly playable.

NV- NetHack actually looks pretty cool.

"Looks pretty cool."

"Looks pretty cool."

"Looks pretty cool?!?"

Oh, vile treacherous soul, who claims to revere Roguelikes and in that same breath denies their current Pope... repent! Repent, I say!

NH was my vile and unwholesome introduction to Roguelikes (the best concise description of the game remains the classic anonymous "Thank you for the latest release of gradewrecker. My GPA just went in the corner and shot itself.") It saw me through long years of technical education and earned me plenty of geek street cred (when I was living abroad, I had with me a P60 laptop that was good for three things: holding down large stacks of paper against gale-force wind, flirtatiously catching the eye of airport security personnel, and playing Nethack... oh, and in a pinch I suppose it might have reluctantly compiled Java 1.2 from the command line). Nethack is no longer seeing regular development, but its less-pure (and more difficult) bastard daughter, SLASH'EM, is. Personally, I largely outgrew Nethack and moved on to ADOM for when I need that certain je ne sais quoi that only processor-friendly, high-complexity, high-difficulty computer games can provide. Never could get into the 'Bands, though... they and I just never hit it off. If one wants a goodly run of extant Roguelikes, Dungeondweller remains a good source. If a non-affectionado wants an easy introduction into Roguelikes, I'd be inclined to recommend the "7-day" (as in, development time, not play time) Roguelike, Save Scummer... but then, I suppose that just goes to show what a wretched sense of humor I have... ;)

Chritian G:

I tried Elona just this past week. It certainly is pretty. But its learning curve and difficulty ramp-up are weird. I'm not saying I dislike it, but it's hard to ease into. The fact that it's very plainly a hybrid of JRPGs and ADoM is almost endlessly intriguing, however, so I will probably go back and poke at it some more eventually.

It took me a while to realize myself that, for example, going into that starting dungeon called the "puppy cave" isn't actually a good idea at the beginning of the game.

However, if you think the difficulty is weird , then I'd be interested in your thoughts about the marriage system - or the ability of humans to generate eggs ;).

More on McCain and using a computer.

Christian G:

I've never had the patience to get deep enough in to deal with the "social" aspects; I keep getting hung up (and excessively killed) with bad decisions like your aforementioned puppy cave: "But this is based on ADoM, and in ADoM the puppy cave is one of the two safest starting targets!"... the difficulty isn't ramped up like a traditional Roguelike (or JRPG, I'd be tempted to say, but I've less experience with that genre). Take, um, the mine under the first town, with the puny punits... and those awful, awful acid blobs.

Bwaage, Christian Bale's Angry Voice really annoyed me too.
So did all the emphasis on Gordon's son. His daughter is the one who's going to follow in Batman's footsteps, why doesn't Babs get the spotlight?
As for Jokers, Mark Hamill is still my favorite. And I would have loved to see Cesar Romero play Homicidal Joker, just for the contrast with the clownishness he had to show on the old Bat-series.
Yes, I'd love to see Charlize Theron pull off anything--wait, you didn't mean clothes, did you? Sorry!

Gary- You said to get it while its 'hot', which I interpreted as 'stolen.' Not my A-material. ^.^;

NV- I'll be bookmarking this thread so I can check out the other games when I get the chance. Also, after playing NetHack for a couple of hours last night, I am duly impressed. A gnome archaeologist who starts out with a bullwhip and fedora? Break out the crayons and color me tickled pink!

Christian G.- Since you appear to be a fan of Japanese console RPGs, do yourself a favor and check out the Shin Megami Tensei series. SMT: Persona 3 FES is the game I wanted to gush about upthread. Any title in the series is great, though, but Persona is probably the best combination of good mechanics and story. (Not to mention terrific voice acting.)

Oh, I'm familiar with the series. I liked Persona 2 very much. I also started SMT: Nocturne some time ago, but it's one of many games that's just lying around waiting to be picked up again >_<. I have a very poor "played through and considered to be finished" record on the Ps2, at least when it comes to RPGs.

MeDrewNotYou;

I put some time and thought into http://brickoven.blogspot.com/2008/08/reading-list.html ">this. I hope you get a chance to read it.

Incorporeal BOB-I'm just not seeing Hilzoy as any Animal Farmer, much less Napoleon.

Christian- I have the same problem. 90hrs into a game at the final dungeon and I never get around to finishing it. http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/582958/33233>This is a great guide for Nocturne, if you aren't averse to FAQs. (I mostly used it the first time to navigate the confusing-as-hell dungeons and tried to avoid boss strategies, but all the guy's advice is top-notch. All of AIex's FAQs are great, for that matter.)

I'm mostly too depressed to comment. :-(

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