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June 06, 2008

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Experience too long ago for specifics to be useful, but I strongly recommend taking advantage of the upside of colonialisms past: Vietnamese restaurants and Algerian couscous spots.

Joost Hiltermann

?

how unfortunate.

Yeah, his parents should have known better (assuming that was a reference to his name and not his viewpoints)

And have a wonderful, wonderful time! I'd envy you even if it weren't a steamy 95 degrees here...

Oil up almost $10 per barrel today to almost $138/barrel. Dow down 300 points. Wheeeee!

I know. NYC tomorrow: 94 degrees. Paris: 67 degrees.

E-Mart FTW!

Echoing Nell's first comment: eat falafel in the Jewish quarter.

A cousin took me to this fabulous little falafel shop on my first visit to Paris, and I managed to accurately wander back with other friends the next year. yummy.

also, it's cheesy but totally worth it to ride a bateau mouche on the Seine at night. (think Audrey Hepburn and Cary Grant in "Charade")

Pere Lachaise cemetery...

Notre Dame cathedral...

I recommend visiting several of the Zones Urbaines Sensibles, or Sensitive Urban Zones Eric. There are nearly eight hundred of them.

There are nine in Paris, and number 495 looks nice. It would be a good chance to do some theory-to-practice exercises on Sageman and Friedman’s take on things.

Here’s the complete list if you want to do some extra credit work.

Enjoy the coffee!

BOB:

Sageman actually cites those ghettos as a cause of alienation/extremism.

So, if I visit, it's likely that I'll end up further supporting Sageman's thesis!

Also farmgirl + Nell: Thanks much. The North African food is delicious. I'll definitely hit that this time again. But I haven't tried the Vietnamese yet. Mmmm pho.

Haven't been to that cemetary or on a boat ride, and I might just try!

check out Divan du Monde in the Pigalle District and there is an excellent bar/cafe across the street from it on the same side.

the dali museum at the top of the montmarte is also worth checking out.

It's been too long since I was in Paris to be able to properly recommend anywhere to eat. Better to ask the locals where's good.

Best wishes! Have a wonderful time.

Don't eat at a restaurant on any main thoroughfare, especially one that advertises in English. Pick any random back street and stop in any place that has a bunch of small tables pushed close together.

If you have any French, try it with a smile. If not, bring a guidebook and try anyway.

Walk a lot. Every arrondisment has places worth visiting on foot.

Buy your own food and picnic. It's a great money saver and there are fewer pleasures so fine as a "fisselle" (a small baguette suitable for two), a camembert bien cremeux and wine.

What an opportunity then Eric. I love theory-to-practice drills. Skip the bars and restaurants and hand the savings to that group of guys hanging out by the halal meat market.

See if they become grateful. Or if they judge it to simply be jizya.

I bet they’ll still look at you funny.

le Coupe Chou, 9, rue Lanneau, Paris. tel. 01.46.33.68.69. It's in the 5th arrondissment. Ate there back in 2002 and since the restaurant appears to have been there for many, many years, I am assuming it is still there.

By the way Bill,

Which portions of Sageman's thesis in particular do you take issue with and why?

Your comments about him seem all over the map, and lack a responsive critique.

Help me to understand your opposition to Sageman?

Have only been to Paris once and a long time ago, but the things I remember really enjoying were as follows: *Walking around; *Eating bread and drinking coffee; *The Rodin museum; *Going to the movies.

Say hi to Pierre for me!

Absolutely what Francis said about picnics. My third favorite food memory from Paris. There was a charcuterie near our little hotel that added delicious rice salads and the like to the excellent bread-cheese-wine-fruit movable feast.

Yeah, I've heard that the Luxembourg (sp?) gardens are good for a picnic...

God, I'm hungry.

Cafe Constant. I had the fish quenelles in lobster broth, and they were unbelievable. Go and have the server pick what is good and traditional - I doubt you will be disappointed.

Its address from its website is:
139, rue Saint-Dominique, 75007 Paris


Eric,

The history geek in me says take a trip out of town for half a day and go visit one of the WWI battlefields.

If it were me, I wouldn't be able to resist the call of walking the ground where an event took place which is distant enough in time from us today for the passions to have faded, yet close enough in time to seem almost contemporary and make it easier to imagine the people caught up in it as real live flesh-and-blood human beings. That war was one of the most significant events of the last two hundreds years and it will probably be centuries before it fades into the background. It also puts our concerns today into a different perspective, given the scale of the thing.

ThatLeftTurnInABQ : The history geek in me says take a trip out of town for half a day and go visit one of the WWI battlefields.

I couldn’t agree more. I’d highly recommend Verdun. It’s unforgettable (and what went on there unimaginable). You’d pretty much need a car though. It’s like 150 miles from Paris and tough to get to by train (well, it was, many years ago).

I also agree with the bread/cheese/wine thing. Great stuff. If you get tired of the city try to make it to the Palace of Versailles. You can spend an entire day just wandering around the gardens there.

Oh, and the best place in the city for your picnic – the steps of the Basilique du Sacré Cœur. Fantastic view of the city.

Pere Lachaise is very cool as cemeteries go. Buy a map from one of the vendors outside and wander around finding the graves of many, many famous people. Jim Morrison (of the Doors)is buried there. There are rows upon rows of family crypts that tend toward the ornate.

Saint Chapelle near Notre Dame is a beautiful chapel.

There is a bit of medieval Paris left at one end of Ile de la Cite--old two-story buildings on winding little streets.

Have a great time, and don't let the snooty waiters get to you. ;)

Have a great time, and don't let the snooty waiters get to you.

Ah yes. Thus my fondness for bread and cheese on the go… It is amusing though, as in seeing a caricature come to life….

If you want to egg them on a little Eric just play the dumb American. Free entertainment.

@BOB:
I've done foot traffic through a couple of the ZUS listed. I suppose now you're telling me I should have been deathly afraid for life and limb? How silly of me to have not been.

@Eric:
If you're doing "touristy", haven't seen it, and go for that sort of thing, Musée d'Orsay is to my eye worth visiting. I enjoyed it more than the Lœuvre by far.

I'll second OCSteve on Sacré Cœur. Wonderful view. Hope you don't mind pigeons, tho'; when I was there the steps were crawling with them.

If I were in your shoes, I'd definitely hit a hypermarket and picnic at least once, as per above, but in my case that's to some degree just me missing specific French foodstuffs which might be hard to get in a restaurant.

Also, I see Adam has recommended a restaurant serving quenelles. I'll risk betraying a certain fidélité dauphanaise by emphatically seconding this. 'Tain't for naught that Lyon is the culinary capital of France. Profite, profite!

Second Modesto Kid's rec on the Musee Rodin (especially the gardens - the only 18th-C hôtel with its lot intact) - and, for a different view of Paris: try the cafe on top of the Centre Pompidou: very urban views right over the Marais (very scenic, too).

Oh, and just remember that Parisian cabs aren't permitted to cruise for fares: although I'm sure they have, by now, learned to pick out the Americains as they stand out in the street frantically waving their arms aounrd

I'm not in any way an art person, but I loved the Pompidou Center--even if you don't go inside, the architecture is just stunning. Photos can't do it justice, because a large part of what makes the experience is seeing people move through the various corridors that are placed outside the walls.

I'll also endorse Francis' comment above.

Just to add a little more:

Our picnic dinner at Sacré Cœur is one of my very favorite memories of my entire life. We had walked and walked, all day – seen a lot of the city on foot. Totally exhausted. We had been looking for a dinner place. I got so hungry I said screw it. We bought bread and cheese from a little shop. Walked up one more street looking for a place to sit and eat, and there it was…

I had no idea where we were, what the name was. It was going on sunset and totally spectacular. We sat on the steps, collapsed actually. Fantastic view. Once in a lifetime view. We ate bread and cheese. Street performers. You don’t get to pick them, but we lucked out. We had a duo on acoustic guitar doing Simon and Garfunkel. They were awesome.

It’s hard to describe – but it ended up as one of my very favorite memories. I’ll bash the French at every opportunity, but G*d, Paris…

Enjoy dude.

"@BOB:
I've done foot traffic through a couple of the ZUS listed. I suppose now you're telling me I should have been deathly afraid for life and limb? How silly of me to have not been."

Sure, just like I should be terrified of my Muslim friends, and should have been of all my past Muslim neighbors, and just like we should be of Muslim commenters here.

Bill knows that reality doesn't matter; only his own reading of the Dread Koran Of Doom matters, and that reading overrides any Actual Muslim Behavior.

It's not as if Bill has any Muslim friends, after all, to observe. He'd find that prospect way too scary, and besides, where would that leave his Theories?

I just hope you survive the Dread Muslim French Threat, Eric, and see Francis before it disappears behind the Veiled Curtain Of Doom that awaits the unwitting West, but for which Bill and his ilk are so well prepared and ready to warn us all of.

If only my genetic defect left me capable of understanding all this. But: alas!

Don't go to a hypermarche. You're on vacation, not a stressed office worker. Buy your food either at one of the many open-air farmers' markets or at local stores while you're walking around.

Buy a good knife (I never go on vacation w/out my Opinel) and a waiter's style flat corkscrew.

Two stores that I think are worth a special trip are Maison du Chocolat and Pain Poilane.

Unless you're (a) rich or (b) willing to go broke in a hurry, you should probably plan on eating out only once a day. Croissants and/or brioche for breakfast followed by a cafe express, picnic lunch and dinner out is a great way to travel.

Avoid the Bois du Boulogne -- prostitutes.

There's little need to spend money on taxis; Paris has a great subway and bus system.

Keep in mind how the arrondisments are labelled and you won't get too lost. 1-4 are Ile de la Cite and old right bank; 5-7 are the heart of the Left Bank and so on.

(i'm telling myself i don't hate your guts ... i'm not sure it's working.)

I'm a very occasional reader of ObWi (I blame my workplace that blocks it, the idiots) but I live in Paris.

I could help with some of the walking around part (and French translation if needed), but I'm afraid I don't know many restaurants outside of around the St Lazare station...

Eric;

You spend your money on the halal boys. Then I’ll spend my time on Sageman Consulting, LLC, consultant, United Nations.

We’ll compare notes after that. Have a good time.

hippie

Don't go to a hypermarche. You're on vacation, not a stressed office worker. Buy your food either at one of the many open-air farmers' markets or at local stores while you're walking around.

Aye, too right; my above casual call thereto was, I suppose, a regression to the appalling degree of customer loyalty I exhibited when living in France. Find a small shop, or yes, better still an open-air market.

And get out at sunrise for fresh-from-the-oven pain au chocolat from a local boulangerie if you're ambitiously decadent.

Another boulangerie treat: escargot aux raisin. They look like cinnamon rolls, but they are studded with raisins. My wife and I lived in Ferney-Voltaire for a few months (on the border between France and Switzerland), and that was my nearly daily treat. My wife is a pain au chocolat type of person, but they didn't thrill me personally. Also, there's nothing bad about the hypermarkets - you can certainly find a wide variety of good cheeses there, but there ought to be many other small stores to pick from. If you'll be there for a while and will have a refrigerator, pick up a case of milk: 1) they are ultra-pasturized, so they are not refrigerated until you open it, 2) they come in cardboard cartons, and 3) I've never tasted milk of similar quality in the US. Arguably, the thing my wife and I remember most about our stay there was the delicious milk.

There aren't many stores above the level of the supermarket inside Paris anyway, so going to small local shops shouldn't be too difficult.

Go to the incredible Marie Antoinette exhibit at the Grand Palais:it is both exquisite and heartbreaking. My favorite small museum in Paris is the Musee Nissim Camondo at 63 Rue de Monceau. The backstory behind it is devastating. Bon voyage-it should be melon season now!

Okay, bougie, out with the backstory. Here we are sweltering at our keyboards while Eric prepares to flit off to Paris. We've got to have something to console ourselves... aside from all that virtual Parisian food.

I agree about picnics, one real meal a day, the boat ride and the view from the top of the centre pompidou (sort of down the street). zillions of beautiful parks to eat in. it's hard to know what places to recommend without knowing sort of where you'll be staying, visiting etc. would be happy to provide more details with more information.
if you don't speak French and want to ask directions, please first say, parlez vous anglais? i know you knew that, but ...

I agree about picnics, one real meal a day, the boat ride and the view from the top of the centre pompidou (sort of down the street). zillions of beautiful parks to eat in. it's hard to know what places to recommend without knowing sort of where you'll be staying, visiting etc. would be happy to provide more details with more information.
if you don't speak French and want to ask directions, please first say, parlez vous anglais? i know you knew that, but ...

OT: Central Wisconsin (and eastern Iowa, and northern Illinois) is getting smashed by tornadoes and other dismal weather. If you know anyone in the area, give'em some love.

If you are interested in technology at all visit the Musee des Arts et Metiers

There you will learn that all major technological advances were made by the French, with perhaps a small occasional contribution by an American or a Brit:-)

Seriously, it's very interesting and a break from the cathedral/art museum round. (Nothing wrong with that - don't miss the Gare d'Orsay)

Francis is correct about food. The big places on the main streets aren't your best choices, though often the easiest if you don't speak French. Don't be afraid to try your high school French, though. The people are not so rude as advertised.

Take buses to see the city, and subways for speed. Avoid changing at Chatelet if possible - it goes on forever.

The Nissim Camondo is a family mansion given to France by Moises de Camondo in honor of his son, Nissim, a french aviator killed in combat in WWI. Moises died in 1936. He had a daughter, Beatrice, who was deported along with her children and husband to Auchwitz, where they all perished. The house is crammed with exquisite furniture and china, but it is still intensely personal; as though the family had just closed the front door.

Having recently returned from a month in Paris, I would recommend:

Le Taxi Jaune. They say that the best restaurants in Paris are closed on Sunday. The Taxi closes for the whole weekend. Otis the chef's best meals/deal IMHO are lunch. 35 euro gets you and your guest each a salad and a plat, a couple glasses of the house red and a cafe. Service compris, it's better than most anything and on par cost-wise with San Francisco. Otis's place is at 13 rue Chapon in the 3rd. Enjoy a Fisher on tap for me...

L'Ambassade d'Auvergne near the Pomp Center. (http://www.ambassade-auvergne.com/internet/c_inetpub/index.asp)
When Otis closed the Taxi from 5/1 - 5/12 for a vacation, he recommended this place as a restaurant he often takes his family on Sundays (they're open all week incredibly). Try the duck with aligot and finish up with the (Maison du chocolate) chocolate mousse. And try not to be surprised when they leave the entire 1/2 gallon of mousse at your table. Go hungry!

The crepe cart at the St. Germaine des Pres metro stop is the best around, always making their crepes fresh with plenty of sugar and citron, or nutella. The jamon and fromage is excellent as well.

Shop at Bread and Roses, 7 Rue de Fleurus for your Lux Garden picnic.

Visit Le Barone Rouge after picking out lunch at the Marche d'Aligre in the 12th and try the Quincy by the bottle or take your own container to fill at the barrels.

That's what I got for ya. No misses in that group.

Thank you, bougie.

A cousin took me to this fabulous little falafel shop on my first visit to Paris, and I managed to accurately wander back with other friends the next year. yummy.

Did it have pictures of Lenny Kravitz on the wall? If so, it was probably L'As du Falafel on the Rue des Rosiers. If it wasn't, well, you should go to L'As du Falafel. Awesome food, and cheap.

Second the recommendation for La Sainte-Chapelle. It's kind of hidden, but totally worth it.

I couldn’t agree more. I’d highly recommend Verdun. It’s unforgettable (and what went on there unimaginable). You’d pretty much need a car though. It’s like 150 miles from Paris and tough to get to by train (well, it was, many years ago).

Thirded. My girlfriend and I were there last week, and unfortunately you're right, driving is pretty much the only way to get there and around. At first glance, it looks like a very pretty park; but at the ossuary they have pictures of what the Trench of the Bayonets looked like when it was first built. The destroyed villages are also shattering; it's stunning to look into what looks like a pleasant enough forest and see destroyed buildings and broken ground, even 90 years after the fact.

Unfortunately we weren't able to find the Mort Homme before we left.

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