Wow

by publius

Wow.

I felt a great disturbance in the Force today . . . as if millions of Wall Street bankers cried out in joy and refused to be silenced.

Personally, I'm very excited for the "Do You Denounce? Do You Reject? Do You Denouncingly Reject? Do You Rejectingly Denounce?" game.

Comments

[Mr Furious]

Wow is right... At first I thought, "this has to be some old thing coming back to haunt him from his past..."

Coming all the way back from three weeks ago.

hat the hell is the matter with these guys? Seriously?

[Ugh]

And just when Obama was going back on the attack on Clinton for her "he's ready if he's my veep but not if he's not" crap.

[Mr Furious]

Glad he got nailed for this now, as he was on my short list for U.S. Attorney General in a Dem Administration...

[Mr Furious]

Yeah, Ugh, that SUCKS.

[Porcupine_Pal]

Google knows all.

[John Thullen]

Wall Street floor traders let out a whoop when they heard the unconfirmed news that Spitzer is to resign. They hates him.

Then they went back to making a market in the shares of banks, mortgage companies, credit rating agencies, brokerage firms, and other brothels.

[KCinDC]

I'm with Josh Marshall in being unable to imagine how his enemies on Wall Street didn't find out about his habits. Is this something he just decided to take up recently, because he needed more excitement in his life?

[Ugh]

Is this something he just decided to take up recently, because he needed more excitement in his life?

I thought the report said he went last month, so could be.

I'd say it was a set up but he's apparently copping to it.

[Jackmormon]

I can't help believing that it was a set up AND that he got fair and square caught at it.

[CaseyL]

He was just doing research.

For, um... a prostitute rehab program! Yeah, that's it! He needed to know what made a nice, pretty girl go into a business where she meets rich, famous men and makes $3000/hour screwing them.

There are two questions I'd like to ask:

1. First, I want to grab Spitzer by his ears and scream "How could you be so stupid?" at him while shaking him like a martini.

2. Second, I want to ask the girls of Emperor House "$3000/hour? What in god's name do you do that's worth $3000 an hour??" Because, no snark, I'm really dying to know.

[Doctor Science]

OK, male-type-people: explain to me what could be worth $5500 *an hour*.

Of course, it may be that he somehow thought that because it was online it was more "discrete". @.@

Yes, I would have figured him for A.G., too. Let's all smash our heads against our desks, shall we?

[KCinDC]

In New York, if the governor resigns, the lieutenant governor becomes governor. We could have another black governor (also legally blind).

[Ugh]

I can't help believing that it was a set up AND that he got fair and square caught at it.

It's like that scene near the end of the film version of The Firm where Gene Hackman tell Tom Cruise's wife that the girl he slept with on the beach was a "set up." Like that was supposed to make her feel all better or something.

[CaseyL]

I see that Dr Science and I have homed in on the really important issue here :D

[cleek]

Spitzer's a dummy...

...

...for not being a Republican.

[Ugh]

OK, male-type-people: explain to me what could be worth $5500 *an hour*.

I would 90% of that is for discretion. In theory.

Man, senior partners at my firm don't even charge a fifth of that per hour for legal advice.

[Ugh]

"I would say 90%..."

[Porcupine_Pal]

We're all just a click away from the abyss.

[KCinDC]

As for the all-important superdelegate question, Lt. Gov. Paterson is already a Clinton superdelegate, because he's a DNC member. So this could reduce the total number of superdelegates, as well as the number of Clinton-supporting superdelegates, by 1.

[Mary]

I think you can get discretion for less than $5500 an hour. You pay $5500 an hour for the same reason some people pay over $100 for a freakin' hamburger. If you can afford to pay that much, then you are The Man, and the hamburger/woman is all the more delicious for it.

But yeah, of all the damn days for this to come out. I was really hoping for the networks to pay attention to Obama's bamboozle speech today, but it doesn't look good. Maybe he can repeat it in his victory speech tomorrow night.

[dogrose]

The Smoking Gun has the relevant pages from the FBI affidavit.

Client-9 went to a lot of trouble.

[John Thullen]

Casey 3:45pm:

"What in God's name do you do that's worth $3000 an hour?"

Doctor Science 3:45 pm:

"O.K., male-type people: What could be worth
$5500 an hour."

The price went up within a minute. They must price like airlines price seats. Elliot Spitzer should look into that. Wait, he already did.

I'm a male-type person and I've no idea what exactly is worth that kind of money.

I can't figure out either why an expensive car, a boat, or a prized bottle of wine is worth what they charge for it. But I guess if I had tons of money, I wouldn't bat an eyelash.

Maybe discretion, in which case Spitzer needs to look into that because that claim was fraudulent. Wait, he already did.

Maybe safety, hygiene, and stringent medical testing standards.

Maybe a kink not found elsewhere.

What can I say? Every man has something they like (you asked male-types). Maybe a woman with particular characteristics, though maybe just a different woman. Maybe a woman who acts convincingly like she is into whatever the male type wants. Maybe an expert in whatever sexual act is fantasized about or desired. It might seem worth $5500!!! beforehand, but I suspect it would occur to most reasonable men maybe 12 seconds afterwards that "Cripes, I feel stupid paying $5500!!! for that!"

And then approximately one hour later find themselves at the ATM withdrawing another $5500!!.

As an aside, Spitzer's wife appeared with him and looked, well, like you would expect.

What an awful, selfish thing to put her through.

[Anderson]

OK, male-type-people: explain to me what could be worth $5500 *an hour*.

Y'all pony up, and I'll report back to you whether it was worth the $$$ or not.

[KCinDC]

At least the NYT's awful "involved in a prostitution ring" phrase is starting to work its way out of the coverage. It was all over the place initially.

[Slartibartfast]

I, for one, question the timing.

[CaseyL]

The price went up within a minute. They must price like airlines price seats.

Heh. The price didn't go up; the imperial girls have different, ah, price points depending on "Diamond" rating. 7 Diamonds is the most expensive, at $5500 an hour. I sort of went with a guesstimate average price. (H/T to Huffington Post, which grabbed screenshots of the Emperor Club website before it was taken down.)

[Mr Furious]

I'm with you John Thullen, she was probabaly thinking this...

Why do these a-holes take to the podium with their wives next to them? Could there be any more humiliating form of abuse you could heap on someone than to ask them to stand up there with you? We know you have testicles, Governor—they clearly control your actions—could you make use of them now and face the music on your own?

I HATE that!

[John Thullen]

Slart:

"I, for one, question the timing."

Why, did Spitzer go over his alloted hour?

Sorry, that was threadus interruptus.

[trilobite]

As a male typing person, I too am mystfied. Beats my erstwhile $300 weekends w/ my LDR GF all hollow.

Maybe it's like (some) therapists: the hourly charge includes followup phone sessions, reading material, referral to affiliated professionals for physical tests -- I'll stop now.

How did his wife not notice that much $$ missing? Does nobody have joint checking accounts anymore? Tho I guess that's not the only thing wrong with that marriage.

Whatever, Spitzer's still a great man, and should still be on the AG shortlist. Lots of people use hookers, very few of them terrify entire financial sectors.

[Nell]

It was all over the place initially.

I emailed TPM to give them grief for parroting that Drudge-lite crap. The NYT's making Wall Street happy; what's David Kurtz's excuse? The internals of the initial Times blurb made it clear that the involvement was as a john.

And wtf with the US attorneys' public corruption unit working on this? It was stupid and wrong, but it's beyond belief Spitzer was stupid and wrong enough to use public money.

[Anderson]

At least the NYT's awful "involved in a prostitution ring" phrase

I know! Like, now you have to buy your *prostitute* a ring, too?

Who comes up with this stuff? The diamond industry, I suspect.

[Nell]

In case the reference is unclear, my comment was about TPM using the Times headline "involved with prostitution ring", which makes it sound as if Spitzer was taking a share of the proceeds.

[Anderson]

And wtf with the US attorneys' public corruption unit working on this? It was stupid and wrong, but it's beyond belief Spitzer was stupid and wrong enough to use public money.

Well, that's how it works, I think: you "investigate" whether he's using public money ...

... you leak that he's "Client 9" ...

... and then a few weeks or months later, you let drop that, hey, good news! he wasn't using public money after all!

Some of course may choose to question the ethicality of the middle part there.

[hairshirthedonist]

At least the NYT's awful "involved in a prostitution ring" phrase is starting to work its way out of the coverage. It was all over the place initially.

Yeah. I heard that phrase on NPR an hour and a half ago. I took it to mean he was part of the ring, not a customer. That blew (no pun intended) my mind more than his being a John (not Thullen). It's almost anti-climactic.

[KCinDC]

Amazingly, the very first headline (though not the first story) on All Things Considered just now was about Obama's comments on the Clintons' VP game-playing.

[von]

Some initial reactions:

I don't like Spitzer's politics, but I belong to the school of thought that prostitution should be decriminalized. Particularly here: this does not seem to be a case where the women were forced into a life of prostitution (31k/day?!??!!?!?). I'm not going to take too much joy in this.

That said, since Spitzer had pretty much the opposite public persona, and also was kinda a jerk to boot, I am going to take a little joy in seeing him hoisted by his self-righteous petard.

Also, if you read the smoking gun documents, it seems that "Client #9" had a history with this particular service. If Client #9 is indeed Spitzer, it appears that this was not a one-off event.

There may also be a legitimate public funds issue here: The services that Client #9 paid for cost $4100. How the heck did he pay for that? More to the point, how did he hide it from his wife? My wife will yell at me for a $2.50 ATM fee. And, if it has occurred multiple times -- as the smoking gun documents suggest -- what's the total? Assume Spitzer could afford it -- how could he possibly conceal it?

$4100 for a night is a lot of freakin' cash.

[Ara]

Doctor Science: True love.

[joel hanes]

OK, male-type-people: explain to me what could be worth $5500 *an hour*.

I can't believe it's a mystery: what's most desired is the illusion, however fleeting, that this attactive woman desires him, wants him, finds his attentions pleasing and his sexual performance gratifying. The more convincing the illusion, the higher the price.

What is it men in women do require
The lineaments of Gratified Desire

What is it women do in men require
The lineaments of Gratified Desire

Blake From The Notebook 1793

ah, look at all the lonely people ...

[Slartibartfast]

The more convincing the illusion, the higher the price.

And, of course, the larger the need for the illusion, and the willingness to be illuded.

If that's even a word.

[Mary]

For God's sake. My lineaments are getting all desired and gratified later on tonight in exchange for a little tea and conversation.

[von]

OK, I'm now officially taking too much pleasure in this, but .....*

Client #9 -- fingered in the media reports as Spitzer -- apparently paid "Kristin $4300** and also paid for her to take the Amtrak from New York City to Washington, D.C. That means that Spitzer is potentially liable for a felony under the modern equivalent of the Mann Act (18 USC 2421):

Whoever knowingly transports any individual in interstate or foreign commerce, or in any Territory or Possession of the United States, with intent that such individual engage in prostitution, or in any sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.

*Someone once said: "It's not a sin if you don't take pleasure in it." Definitely sinning here.

**Not $4300, as previously reported. HuffPo also says that some of this amount may have been to cover prior trysts (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/10/spitzer-as-client-9-read_n_90787.html).

[Ugh]

Reports are that he's resigning at 7pm tonight.

[Anderson]

Do I transport someone if I buy 'em a train ticket? It's up to her whether to take the train, right?

Interesting.

So if your roommate's a hooker, do *not* let him or her borrow your car.

[joel hanes]

Mary: I can assure you that a large number of people live lives completely without intimacy. Many single men go for years without one bit of human touch. Many single women go for years without any man ever looking at them like that. Whenever I mention this, I am surprised by the number of people who are surprised. Love is a game with many many losers.

[hilzoy]

I hope he doesn't resign, but that's just because I generally think prostitution should be decriminalized, and because absent some suggestion of coercion or some other independently bad thing, it should not be a political issue. Also, assuming no use of public funds.

That said, wtf was he thinking?

And I echo all the women who have asked: what on earth is worth that kind of money? (Here I have no doubt I'm hampered by the fact that, like John Thullen, I can't figure out why people buy expensive cars either, or McMansions, or a lot of that stuff.)

[von]

I hope he doesn't resign, but that's just because I generally think prostitution should be decriminalized, and because absent some suggestion of coercion or some other independently bad thing, it should not be a political issue. Also, assuming no use of public funds.

I assume that you believe that hypocrisy is also insufficient to warrant a resignation here, Hilzoy. But what of the argument that Spitzer had opened himself up to a perfect opportunity for blackmail, and thus displayed tremendously bad judgment? Or that he may very well have committed a felony? Or that he will now be completely ineffectual as a governor?

I agree that the law here is incorrect, but Spitzer really should resign. I respectfully suggest that Democrats should too, given that there is a very capable and untarnished Lt. Gov. ready to step in.

[John Thullen]

"That said, wtf was he thinking?"

He was leading with his, um ....... cough .... chin.

[hilzoy]

von: hypocrisy, maybe -- I haven't followed Spitzer closely enough to know how he is vulnerable on that front.

Someone on a listserv I'm on just noted that this little appointment happened on Valentine's day. Ew.

[trilobite]

And I echo all the women who have asked: what on earth is worth that kind of money?

And I suspect I speak for many of the men when I say that we, too, would like to find out, if someone would comp us.

[Ugh]

Here I have no doubt I'm hampered by the fact that, like John Thullen, I can't figure out why people buy expensive cars either, or McMansions, or a lot of that stuff.

I used to say that I was perfectly happy driving my 1995 POS, that I didn't need a more expensive or newer car, etc. etc. etc. Then I started to test drive some newer and nicer cars and the difference was, well, astonishing. Sold the 1995 POS soon thereafter. Of course, the wife gets to drive the new car...

[Phil]

I think the question may be a little bit ass-backwards here. It isn't "What sexual activity, woman, or combinations thereof are worth $5,500 per hour to a man?" but -- at least in part -- "If I were a woman, and were acting as an escort to extremely important and well-connected men, how much per hour could I get away with charging?"

[KCinDC]

Von, I assume you feel the same way about Sen. Vitter, correct?

Hilzoy, the hypocrisy, I assume, is that he's prosecuted prostitution rings in the past.

Where did he get that kind of money? Are there financial disclosure forms somewhere that provide some idea what his net worth is?

[Mary]

Mary: I can assure you that a large number of people live lives completely without intimacy.

I hear you, Joel, and maybe I was a little flip. And given that things have only very recently switched around for this middle-aged woman (and I am still delighted and astounded that they have), I know what it's like to be left out, and I jumped at the chance to brag just a little bit.

But I can't see Spitzer as one of those lonely, untouched men. I mean, it's always possible that anyone's marriage isn't what it appears to be, but given the large number of rich and powerful men who indulge in this kind of risky liaisons, even at the risk of being caught and devastating their family, there's almost certainly something else going on here.

[hilzoy]

Money:

"Spitzer has the classic New York rich kid résumé. The scion of a family that made a fortune in real estate ..."

He also seems to have been in my class at Princeton -- along with Katrina van den Heuvel, whom I also can't recall ever having met.

[hilzoy]

Oh -- and I had somehow missed his having prosecuted prostitution rings. Unless those rings were in some way different (e.g., I'd think that if they used enslaved women brought over in crates from China or something, that would be different), hypocrisy does seem to be the word.

[KCinDC]

Thanks, Hilzoy. I think that's a large part of the explanation of both "What could be worth that much?" and "How could his wife not notice he was spending that much?" For some people, $5,000 is just not that noticeable an amount of money.

[Ugh]

Looks like he has been wandering for a while:

The federal investigation of a New York prostitution ring was triggered by Gov. Eliot Spitzer's suspicious money transfers, initially leading agents to believe Spitzer was hiding bribes, according to federal officials.

It was only months later that the IRS and the FBI determined that Spitzer wasn't hiding bribes but payments to a company called QAT, what prosecutors say is a prostitution operation operating under the name of the Emperors Club.

[John Thullen]

Well, lots of people married for a long time have let intimacy go. Especially busy people.

Maybe they look elsewhere.

Then again, some men (women too, but we're talking prostitution) can receive all of the intimacy and its accoutrements (I always break into French at times like these) at home and still have empty spaces inside to fill.

In an odd way, they have very little to do with each other.

Methinks, powerful and/or wealthy alpha-men either believe deep down that they deserve working both sides of the street .. or ... deep down seek dangerous risk-taking as a thrilling game they play with themselves to see if they can get caught and lose it all, thinking they are undeserving somehow of their power and fortune.

I think prostitution should be legal and healthy and licensed, and I'm not big on punishing hypocrisy. But Spitzer's nerve in going after others' sexual peccadillos, like the religious hypocrites who take the laying on of hands just a might too literally despite their preachings, is so flagrantly dishonorable and pathetic that something's got to give .... his career.

I think the problem in this case is arrogance, ruthlessness, and power.

[ST]

Plame $5,500 hour? Seee her in the early 90s? Real live spy too.

[John Cole]

I think prostitution should be decriminalized, but I don't think that means Spitzer should get off light. He should be forced to resign and then charged if it is appropriate and then, the prosecutor can hold a press conference and shame Spitzer and air all his dirty laundry and try to humiliate and ruin him.

That is what Spitzer would have done to his political enemies, that is what Spitzer has done repeatedly. He deserves a good dose of his own medicine, and then, maybe in a few years he can work to try to make the word "spitzer" something other than an off-color joke.

Screw him.

[KCinDC]

Fox News flubs the story:

Shepard Smith reported that Spitzer had announced his resignation during a brief media statement, but the governor had made no mention of the possibility.

"He came in, he resigned and that was it," Smith said.

The confusion went on for minutes.

The statement was less than a minute long, and they couldn't notice that he didn't resign?

[xanax]

Re: Mary @ 6:52 - When "lonely, untouched men" suffering from (years of?) skin deprivation finally pay to get touched, do they really "devastate their families" by doing so?

I wonder.

If they do, I think there's so much more wrong in these equations than meets the eye.

[Phil]

From a network that's repeatedly identified misbehaving Republicans with "D" after their names, are you really surprised, KC?

[joel hanes]

Spitzer's earlier prosecution and denunciation of prostitution makes it less surprising, not more surpising, that he was attracted to the idea of hiring a prostitute, just as some of the most virulent public homophobes are those in denial about themselves, or with something to hide.

`Tis oft observed how the wrath of the witchburners varies directly with the comeliness of the witch.

[KCinDC]

Xanax, my interpretation was that Mary could understand the "lonely, untouched men" but not the "rich and powerful men" (another group), who must be motivated by something else (and who are the ones risking the devastation).

[Mary]

xanax, I have a lot of sympathy for truly deprived married men, whose wives have no reason but selfishness or boredom to abandon them, who go to prostitutes. But if a marriage is loveless or sexless because of actions of both people, or if the man has an affectionate and attentive wife who has no idea what he's getting up to on the side, I have a lot less sympathy for him. People have to work together to repair a broken marriage, decide to open it with the full and frank understanding of both partners, or end it.

At this point, we don't know what category of men Spitzer or the other men involved in this ring fall into. My assumption right now is that these men have loving wives and unaware children who are, yes, devastated by these revelations.

[xanax]

Agreed, KCinDC. Still, it seems regardless of wealth, power and social status, devastation always seems to accompany married men caught paying for sex. I suggest the real devastation had been occurring all along. As Jackson Browne said: "Let your illusions last until they shatter." I believe often it was the illusion devastated, not the marriage.

[Bill]

"OK, male-type-people: explain to me what could be worth $5500 *an hour*."

My example involves Paul McCartney. Married something like three years and will be out around $150 million after legal fees. Do the math:

The run-up: Loss-leader.
Year #1: Assume every other night (180 units);
Year #2: Assume every fifth night (75 units);
Year #3: Payback for the run-up (0 units).

So we have 255 units for $150 million; which works out to around $59,000 per unit, which does not include dinner. And dinners aren’t getting any cheaper.

[John Thullen]

Yes, Paul thought he was getting a leg over but it ended with her being a leg up.

He should have had a pre-nup and a mine-sweeper.

[von]

Von, I assume you feel the same way about Sen. Vitter, correct?

Yes, but to a lesser degree. As I understand it, Vitter patronized prostitutes some years ago. There has to be some "well, that was the past & I've changed" argument available. I can quantify it as the Obama-Spitzer scale:

Obama -- cocaine use, decade plus ago: Completely irrelevant; borderline dirty politics even to mention it.

Spitzer -- prostitutes, last one less than a month ago: your career is toast, and rightfully so. Resign now.

Although Vitter is not quite at the Spitzer end of the scale, he's clearly no Obama.

Hilzoy, the hypocrisy, I assume, is that he's prosecuted prostitution rings in the past.

Not just prosecuted: Prosecuted creatively and aggressively. (He would have loved to prosecute a governor under the Mann Act, for instance.)

[von]

Oh, and thanks Hilzoy for filling in the gaps regarding Spitzer's net worth. Still think he should go, but it's now very plausible that he could get away with spending a couple grand on prostitutes.

[Ara]

What on earth? I thought he was under investigation. If he's charged with something, surely he should resign then, no?

[Ara]

Oh, and, how is it that a man whose job it was to prosecute people wasn't be apprehensive to the point of paranoia to the possibility that there was a wiretap on the phones he was calling?

As for what it takes to get to $5500, busy well-to-do people don't get out much, I figure. Less leisure time and more leisure income means they spend at a high burn rate, yeah? They tend to conserve time and blow through cash. Also, it you don't have much time at all, I imagine the marginal utility of that first little bit of leisure you get means an awful damned lot to you.

[Nell]

Is there any confirmed report of a charge that has been brought against him yet? (Don't tell me about Fox stuff; something with a document or confirming source.)

[KCinDC]

Nell, the closest thing I've seen is this:

Spitzer, who made his name by bringing high-profile cases against many of New York's financial giants, is likely to be prosecuted under a relatively obscure statute called "structuring," according to a Justice Department official.

Structuring involves creating a series of financial movements designed to obscure the true purpose of the payments.

[Mike Meyer]

SEX IS REASON FOR IMPEACHMENT, BUT WHAT ABOUT TREASON? Call Nancy Pelosi @1-202-225-0100 and DEMAND IMPEACHMENT. DC business hours only, call often, and spread it around.

[KCinDC]

Damn, haven't seen Mike Meyer here before. Wonder how we've escaped it.

[Xeynon]

Spitzer's going to be hoisted by his own petard, and it's a pretty long one given his penchant for self-righteous grandstanding. Other than harrassing Wall Street traders, I seem to recall that fulminating against prostitution rings was one of his favorite public pasttimes when he was AG. Paging Dr. Freud, anybody?

[Xeynon]

Spitzer's going to be hoisted by his own petard, and it's a pretty long one given his penchant for self-righteous grandstanding. Other than harrassing Wall Street traders, I seem to recall that fulminating against prostitution rings was one of his favorite public pasttimes when he was AG. Paging Dr. Freud, anybody?

[Nell]

Remarkable how "a DoJ official" is willing to talk about prosecution before any charge or indictment has been made.

[Nell]

Although I'm not (thankfully) familiar with the actual drill in such cases. Might there already be an indictment, and Spitzer was informed in the last day or so?

Help us out here, lawyers.

[J. Michael Neal]

Wall Street enjoyed this so much, they held a 2% off sale on stocks all afternoon.

As an out-of-work trader (albeit, one that worked in Minnetonka rather than on Wall Street itself), I always loved Spitzer. I think his targets within the industry have been dead on. I really don't know much about what he did outside of my profession, but within it, he was a definite force for good. Admittedly, I was in the minority in the office who thought that.

[Turbulence]

Other than harrassing Wall Street traders...

Care to explain what actions Spitzer took against Wall St. firms that you feel were harassment? I'm assuming that no one here believes that prosecutors should never investigate the activities of Wall St. firms, so what exactly did he do that was such a gross miscarriage of justice?

[jwo]

I think the link above to The Smoking Gun sounds as though he was into some kinky stuff. That might explain his need for such discretion.

[Nell]

"What are you in for?" they asked him.

"Structuring."

And they all moved away from him on the bench there...

"And disturbing the peace."

And they all moved back.

[baf]

Re "What could be worth $5500 an hour": This is all speculation, of course, but odd as it may sound, I can imagine the appeal being fundamentally a moral one. Start with the idea that people become prostitutes out of desperation. Imagine a john with qualms about this: the idea of exploiting someone, of getting his pleasure through someone else's suffering, disgusts him. And it's hard for him to know how much she's being exploited: a prostitute who seems happy with her lot could just be putting on an act in order to not scare him off. But by choosing an exorbitantly expensive prostitute, the tables are turned: she's exploiting him. This is a much more morally comfortable position for the john to be in.

[Nell]

On that logic, baf: If the number of transactions is anything like the sound of the latest NYT article, then Gov. Spitzer was in a position to consider himself very, very exploited.

How many more days will the DoJ dribble this along without a formal charge or indictment?

[Nell]

Link to NYT story (via TPM).

I share Scott Horton's concerns.

[KCinDC]

Nell, the DoJ can dribble for a long time. William Jefferson's freezer was raided in August 2005, and the story broke within a few days. He was indicted in June 2007. Let's hope Spitzer doesn't follow Jefferson's lead.

[Sebastian]

"Remarkable how "a DoJ official" is willing to talk about prosecution before any charge or indictment has been made."

While it doesn't make it right, that is a play right out of Spitzer's playbook.

[Slartibartfast]

I'm wondering if any of this is payback. I mean, you can't make the horse drink, but you can record the evidence of him having drunk, if you're in the right place at the right time.

Regarding whether he should resign or not, I ask myself what the consensus would be, here, if the guy had an R after his name, and I think the answer to that is pretty clear. If I'm being honest.
[/Simon Cowell]

[Ugh]

Drove by the Mayflower hotel on the way to work this morning, there were at least 4 TV trucks outside. Seems a little silly.

[Ugh]

Also note that this is going to obliterate any coverage of Obama's sure win today in MS.

[KCinDC]

Slart, I absolutely agree he should resign, as soon as possible. One reason is that it's certainly no good for Democrats for him to stick around.

I also agree that the DoJ's happening upon this crime smells fishy.

[Porcupine_Pal]

Wouldn't you know...

The FBI became aware of certain suspicious banking transactions.

If you don't have anything to feel guilty about, no one in this country needs to be concerned about the government.

This may have been one of those transaction that we will never know the extent of, if the President's immunity bill passes.

[Phil]

Sadly, No! sums up one right wing reaction. Their verdict: ROFLZ

[hilzoy]

Slart: I said above that I hoped he didn't resign, b/c I don't think prostitution should be criminalized. That was a pretty spur of the moment "oh, God, what does sex have to do with being a good governor?" reaction. On further reflection, I've changed my mind.

(a) as von pointed out, there's hypocrisy. As I said, I don't follow Spitzer all that closely, so I didn't realize he had prosecuted prostitution rings, etc. Also, there's the fact that AGs in particular should not violate the law, however silly they or I might think the law might be.

(b) If this is going to be a Great Big Distraction, I think he should go. Same reason I thought Power should resign; same reason I thought Clinton should resign.

I do wish that AGs generally would focus on cases other than prostitution, that the laws would be changed so that prostitution in the absence of evidence of victimization etc. was not illegal, and that we, the electorate, would find candidates' positions on health care reform gripping, and their sexual whatnot sort of beside all relevant points. But, obviously, we aren't there, so oh well.

[bc]

This is really sad. Especially for his wife and daughters. How anyone can say this is a victimless crime is beyond me.

Whatever, Spitzer's still a great man, and should still be on the AG shortlist.

I'm not sure how anyone that steps out on his wife like this can be called a great man, especially after all his pontificating. Sure, he was a great prosecutor, but great man?

I hope he doesn't resign, but that's just because I generally think prostitution should be decriminalized, and because absent some suggestion of coercion or some other independently bad thing, it should not be a political issue.

But it wasn't decriminalized when he did it. It's not like he was a single, rich playboy before in his public life and arguing for decriminalization himself. He was a prosecutor that prosecuted prostitution rings and loudly condemned them. He was a married man with three teenage daughters. The decriminalization argument seems patently callous and ridiculous to me in his situation.

BTW, here's a story on his prior prosecution. Funny how it was tied into the mob. I'm sure, though, that if we legalized prostitution there would instantly be no mob connection just like legal gambling in Nevada. The only arguments in favor of prostitution that has any weight with me deal with the health of the prostitutes.

Why don't we take Spitzer at his word? He himself said this violated his own sense of right and wrong, indeed ANY sense of right and wrong. Regardless of how you or me might feel about what he did, he knows it was morally wrong to a significant degree.

All that being said, I think it is fine to look into the purpose and motive of DOJ's initial involvement with this. The AP is reporting that it was his movement of cash into bank accounts operated by the ring. ABC reported the IRS was involved. Sounds to me like a CTR (currency transaction report) might have been filed by the bank. This requirement is one of the main provisions of federal anti-money laundering law. Any $10,000 cash transaction requires a filing, but suspicious transactions likewise trigger a filing. Maybe too many fishy $5500 transactions in cash? Too soon to tell.

If a CTR began it all, I have no problem with the prosecution. If Spitzer was targeted, that would be different.

[Slartibartfast]

I'm not arguing with any of that, hilzoy. I actually kind of agree with the sentiment that prostitution shouldn't be a crime, but, well, it is.

I also have mixed feelings about heated demands for his resignation; my demand is rather tepid and based more on a) knowing violation of the law, combined with b) a half-dozen, approximately, exhibitions of -3 sigma judgement goodness. For a manifestly smart guy, he did some extremely dumb things.

[Nell]

"Remarkable how "a DoJ official" is willing to talk about prosecution before any charge or indictment has been made."

Sebastian: While it doesn't make it right, that is a play right out of Spitzer's playbook.

If so, then one more reason to resign promptly.

Not being in NY, and following dimly from afar, I was only aware of Spitzer's splashy press conferences when indictments were officially announced.

You're saying that in his big cases as AG, there were regularly statements to the press from "an official close to the prosecution" before charges or indictments were filed?

The contrast between the DoJ's behavior in this case and the circumspection of highly successful U.S. Attorney Fitzgerald is striking.