Farewell To A Giant

by hilzoy

I note with chagrin that Thomas at RedState has decided to retire from RedState, and that he has chosen to thank us as he leaves:

"Fifth, I want to take a moment to thank Markos Moulitsas Zuniga, Duncan Black, Oliver Willis, the whole crew at Obsidian Wings, and the writers of any other far-left wing moron factory I've inadvertantly omitted, for sending us the waves of cretins who've, between them, managed to make target practice a sport for the whole family again."

I thought I might mark this moment by noting some of Thomas' finer moments. It's hard to pick just a few, but here are two of my favorites:
First, from "Politicizing Tragedy Or The American Left And Human Filth: Distinguish If Possible":

"I no longer see the Left as a set of political opponents. I understand them now to be what they are: An uncompromising, barely human mass of malignancy, that exists only to be crushed electorally and culturally once and for all. Or, as a wiser man than I put it, The Evil Party."

Second:

"I repeat: Should the entire American Left fall over dead tomorrow, I would rejoice, and order pizza to celebrate. They are not my countrymen; they are animals who happen to walk upright and make noises that approximate speech. They are below human. I look forward to seeing each and every one in Hell.*"

How we in the moron factories will manage without Thomas' shining example of Christian charity and compassion is a mystery that passeth all understanding.

***

* This is not the only time that Thomas has committed the sin of presumption by claiming to know God's will not just in general cases -- e.g., His disapproval of murder or idolatry -- but in specifics as well. Personally, I do not believe that any finite and fallible human being has the knowledge to which Thomas lays claim, which gives me some hope that, despite Thomas' somewhat surprising view that he will be in Hell along with the entire American Left, he might be wrong, and find favor with God.

Comments

[Ugh]

I think you should invite him to become a regular poster here, I would like to know God's will as well.

[Gary Farber]

"From 'Politicizing Tragedy Or The American Left And Human Filth: Distinguish If Possible'.)"

You may wish to fix the formatting in your blockquoting that makes it appear that Thomas wrote those words. Ditto that he wrote a post in which he recursively linked to that same post under the words "I repeat."

I have to admit to faint -- very faint -- curiosity as to how Thomas evaluates degree of Left Contamination sufficient to see a given individual fall over dead tomorrow. Does one sufficiently "Leftist" thought contaminate one for the rest of life? Or does one fulfill a quota? Is repentance available in Thomas' scheme?

Such a schema needs to take detailed account of such things, and more more, to be morally worthy, but who would doubt that Thomas has internally consistent and deeply thoughtful answers to such questions?

[thebewilderness]

Well, for once, here is a guy who doesn't claim to be "not as bad as Hitler".

[Gary Farber]

From the same page as Hilzoy's second link, I have to say that this is pretty good stuff, as well:

[...] The second taught me an important lesson: Most humans are extraordinarily stupid. For reasons lost on me, the words "the entire American Left" transformed in a lot of folks' minds into "people who voted for John Kerry (and sometimes their children and entire families)", "half the country," and/or "everyone." The first is merely stupid; the second is north of stupid; and the third is proof that a minimum IQ is not a prerequisite to participation on the Internet.

Let me just repeat this part, and savor it: "for reasons lost on me."

[Gary Farber]

From the same page as Hilzoy's second link, I have to say that this is pretty good stuff, as well:

[...] The second taught me an important lesson: Most humans are extraordinarily stupid. For reasons lost on me, the words "the entire American Left" transformed in a lot of folks' minds into "people who voted for John Kerry (and sometimes their children and entire families)", "half the country," and/or "everyone." The first is merely stupid; the second is north of stupid; and the third is proof that a minimum IQ is not a prerequisite to participation on the Internet.

Let me just repeat this part, and savor it: "for reasons lost on me."

I believe him.

[rea]

What a trainwreck that man is!

Explaining why he was banning some hapless poster: 1965 . . . is not, in fact, the early Sixties

[gwangung]

I take it that this is a gentleman who'll be wondering why he's getting dumped on by folks around here....

[Jesurgislac]

How we in the moron factories will manage without Thomas' shining example of Christian charity and compassion is a mystery that passeth all understanding.

It's sort of like Johnny Cash dying before I became a fan. I had all those years to appreciate Thomas and... and I don't think I even knew he existed! *sobs painfully* How will I cope?

*passes out cake*
*makes tea*

[flyerhawk]

Thomas was a very intelligent poster and, when given reasonable opposition, he would respond with intelligent rebuttals.

Sadly I think that his banning duties made him more hostile and partisan than he needed to be. The dangers of moderating a highly partisan website.

[Gary Farber]

"Sadly I think that his banning duties made him more hostile and partisan than he needed to be."

This indexes as "abyss, staring into."

[Daniel Merritt]

Calling a mass of people 'barely human' and saying they 'deserve to be crushed' and you 'wouldn't mind if they all fell over dead tomorrow' is just being more hostile and partisan than you need to be?

I think it's a bit more systematic than that...you can only take "it's hyperbole" so far.

[flyerhawk]

I've seen a lot of really hostile stuff on the Internet. Because people are anonymous they say things they would never say in real life.

It should be noted that there are a lot of people who take great joy in saying all sorts of nasty things about Republicans on RedState.

That sort of hyperbole wasn't the norm for him.

To each their own.

[gwangung]

I've seen a lot of really hostile stuff on the Internet. Because people are anonymous they say things they would never say in real life.

It should be noted that there are a lot of people who take great joy in saying all sorts of nasty things about Republicans on RedState.

That sort of hyperbole wasn't the norm for him.

Then take the hostility from a site that he specifically (and probably unnecessarily) called out to be not the norm. Just a natural reaction...

[Free Lunch]

Thomas's exit wasn't at all gracious. I was reading DailyKos at the time RedState got started. Kos gave RedState a very generous introduction. Thomas didn't have to make himself look petty.

Of course banning for reasons other than disruptive behavior shows a serious lack of confidence.

[rilkefan]

If so, he wouldn't be the only previously reasonable person to head over there and, well, end up in a dark wood (selvaoscura.com).

[publius]

loved the title to this post - a true giant he is

[Gary Farber]

"loved the title to this post - a true giant he is"

I was tending to assume Hilzoy was using the adjective form, and discreetly leaving out a noun, myself.

Though perhaps your observation has a similar thought behind it.

[hilzoy]

About being confronted with reasonable disagreement: click the link in my footnote. Scroll up a bit. At least, if I can lay claim to being reasonable. Opinions differ on that one -- at least, his differed from mine, since I think I normally do try to be reasonable.

I also find it puzzling that so much of his invective was prompted by his allegiance to a loving God, who told His followers to practice charity and forbearance, and not to judge lest they be judged. The part of me that was most tempted to really get into it with him was the ex-Christian. As, I suppose, this post reveals.

[cleek]

It should be noted that there are a lot of people who take great joy in saying all sorts of nasty things about Republicans on RedState.

oh poor Thomas! such a gentle soul. one totally unable to moderate himself in the face of such an onslaught of the moronic, cretinous, barely-human damned. his own intemperate words are only the result of his inability to ban people fast enough.

[Gary Farber]

"selvaoscura.com"

"Questo dominio e' stato parcheggiato attraverso il Park Your Domain" seems an odd reference.

[rilkefan]

Looks like Dante didn't pay his ISP.

[Bernard Yomtov]

It is amazing to read through that sewage stream of a post, especially when one checks RedState's posting rules, which include:

No personal attacks.
No harassment or demonization of a particular individual.

Ugh. I need a drink.

[john miller]

Having read the thread, hilzoy, it is interesting that he accuses you of no awareness of Christian theology when he himself is exhibiting no knowledge of Catholic theology, the faith he professes to belong to.

[Gary Farber]

"Looks like Dante didn't pay his ISP."

Probably too many links to YouTube.

[alphie]

$15 a week blogads don't pay the bills for Lil' Thomas and his growing brood., I guess.

Double shifts down at the WalMart instead o bloggin'?

[bleh]

Like the ongoing self-immolation of the Republican party (see. e.g., here), his post reminds me of that blue vacuum critter in Yellow Submarine.

"For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind." (Hosea 8:7).

[Ugh]

Ugh. I need a drink.

Hey, I'm trying to quit. ;-)

I do believe Bizarro World's posting rules have an unwritten one that applies to the front pagers only: the rules are thee and not for me.

[Bruce Baugh]

In recent years I've been fascinated to realize just how much of Republican rhetoric is simple projection. The people who went on about the corrupting power of extramarital sex in the '90s were themselves screwing their secretaries, divorcing their wives during cancer treatment, and so on, and many of them were cruising for men or boys and having very dangerous sex of exactly the sort they were saying threatened our moral fiber. The ranters about financial mismanagement gave us record deficits, waste, and so on. The people who complain about criticism of the troops send under-armed and under-trained people who shouldn't have been inducted in the first place into danger under false premises and then try to cheat them out of medical care. It goes on and on.

So this guy is right that there's a party that is the gathered power of all the groups most dangerous to America's moral, civil, financial, and global standing. It's just that it's his party, not the one he's attacking. If you take all the attacks on others as instead being confessions of guilt, moving pronouns accordingly, you get solid truths well worth considering.

[Gary Farber]

"under-trained people"

What do you have in mind there?

[Bernard Yomtov]

Ugh. I need a drink.

Hey, I'm trying to quit. ;-)

That doesn't mean you can't get me one.

[Bruce Baugh]

They also serve who stand and fetch the booze for the lazy sods.

[bobbyp]

"Should the entire American Left fall over dead tomorrow...

Sorta' like a reverse Rapture? Sigh. How utterly secular. I always gave God more credit than that.

[John Thullen]

At least Richard Nixon had the good form to exit sobbing.

That's what the Redstaters really hated about him. They wanted a can of Gordon Liddy opened on the population, you know, as long as it didn't cost too much in the way of taxpayers hard-earned dollars.

Interesting that Thomas pines away in his bitterness against the Left, and that revelations have come to light that J. Edgar Hoover had a list of 12,000 of us or so he wanted to round up.

Well, Hilzoy, not me. I'd have been ignored until the third round of disappearances because I have an innocent face.

Hilzoy skulks, I bet.

As hard as I try to mimic and satirize the bitterness of the Right over the past too many years, I never seem to get the mannerisms and tone down.

They always top me. They are always less funny than I can manage.

It's all talk, though. It's the Internet.

Thomas hasn't the guts to carry through on his words.

Heavy words, though. I hope he gets through security with them.

[The Left]

You know, I can't ever remember meeting the guy.

[John Thullen]

Like Osama Bin Laden, I doubt this is the last we hear of Thomas.

Bitterness comes in installments.

[rilkefan]

"Bitterness comes in installments."

Back in Dickens's day, sentimentality came in installments. I guess this is an improvement.

[alphie]

Aaah, Dickens!

Pity Thomas' last name isn't Goldberg or Kristol, he could have actually made a living scribbling his moronic, racist drivel.

Aristocracy for me and not for thee...

[ral]

No personal attacks.

It's not personal. It's business.

[bad Jim]

Am I the only one puzzled by the inconsistency? At one point we're

An uncompromising, barely human mass of malignancy, that exists only to be crushed electorally and culturally once and for all.

but then

They are below human.

Above all, how can he call Democrats "uncompromising?"

[Charles Bird]

Thomas left, and I am now front-paging my posts at Redstate. That's all I'm going to say about that.

[Catsy]

Thomas was a very intelligent poster and, when given reasonable opposition, he would respond with intelligent rebuttals.

Balderdash, Flyerhawk. Complete and utter poppycock. I have been posting on Redstate nearly as long as you have, though these days I lurk more than post for reasons that should probably be obvious. While there is no denying that Thomas possesses a powerful intellect, it is a shame that he eschews using it for most purposes other than rationalizing monstrous political views and thinking up inventive ways to tell people he disagrees with that they're subhuman.

You and certain other token non-Republicans manage to get away with a certain amount of leeway on Redstate for a variety of reasons--because of your background, because you share specific areas of overlap with their political views, and because you swallow the majority of the abuse Thomas and others like him dish out without calling them on their "civility for me but not for thee" schtick.

"Reasonable opposition", as you put it, only gets you so far with Thomas. You can challenge superficial details and specific arguments, but you cannot challenge the odious assumptions that underly so many of his positions. It's kind of like being forced to convince someone that their bridge is unstable without being allowed to talk about the cracks in its load-bearing members. Sooner or later any serious challenge to what makes him so wrong about nearly everything will put you in banning territory. You and I have both walked that line, so I know you know what I'm talking about.

Ultimately I'm of two minds about Thomas leaving Redstate:

Part of me is glad. He was a toxic presence there, a person who went out of his way to be vile and contemptuous towards people he disagreed with, whose routinely uncivilized conduct set the tone for others to follow by virtue of his position of authority. He, along with several others, are a big part of what makes Redstate more stressful than it's worth for any liberal looking for honest dialogue with conservatives. Maybe the tone of Redstate will improve without his example.

Then again, there's part of me which is sad. Not for the loss of his contributions--the ones that were worth reading I can count on one hand, and one of those was the piss-off open letter he wrote to this year's GOP cavalcade of mediocrity right before his GBCW post. No, what I'm sad about is that he will no longer be around to do damage to the Republican party. An enthusiastic supporter of torture, a willing enabler of every extralegal excess this administration has offered, a creature who truly believes his political opponents traitors and openly wished for their deaths, a man whose only complaints about the Bush administration are places where they're not awful /enough/, the positions and attitudes Thomas articulates are a large part of what is destroying the Republican brand and turning Americans away from the GOP. A part of me regrets that he will no longer be around on Redstate to continue abetting his party's slide into irrelevance.

[John Spragge]

What Catsy said.

What John Cole called "sobbing, screaming... hate" simply doesn't accomplish anything but driving your own allies away. Invective of the kind Thomas indulged in leaves your party weaker, not stronger.

[Donald Johnson]

" people who complain about criticism of the troops send under-armed and under-trained people who shouldn't have been inducted in the first place into danger under false premises and then try to cheat them out of medical care."--Bruce

"What do you have in mind there?"--Gary

Don't know who Bruce was thinking of, but Lyndie England (sp?) comes to mind.

[OCSteve]

I’m curious about my level of taint for hanging out here. I’m guessing I’m not leftist enough to fall over dead, but I expect a bad case of shingles or something similar…

[Edward_]

Thomas!!! We wearily knew ye.

I've had a few folks email me behind the scenes to tell me of Tom's resignation. It was reassuring to see that he departed with the same grace and generosity with which he directed the site all those years.

Couldn't have happened to a nicer group of animals who happen to walk upright and make noises that approximate speech.

What a lovely way to begin 2008!

[Free Lunch]

Keep posting there and here, Charles, keep posting.

[rea]

"under-trained people" . . . What do you have in mind there?

The right wants to throw the troops under trains?

[von]

Thomas was a very intelligent poster and, when given reasonable opposition, he would respond with intelligent rebuttals.

This was occasionally true; although I read his recent postings and wonder whether he understands how he is coming across.

[gwangung]

Thomas left, and I am now front-paging my posts at Redstate. That's all I'm going to say about that.

Raising the civility and perceptiveness level of both sites, hopefully?

[freelunch]

I’m curious about my level of taint for hanging out here.

What with the housing market collapse, I expect all sorts of formerly conservative folks in bubble towns to get religion about government involvement. You are part of the OC vanguard.

[russell]

I always found Thomas to be one of the more intelligent and thoughtful posters on RS, and certainly one of their best writers. When I participated there I always enjoyed his conversation.

And, I also agree with pretty much all of Catsy's comments.

People are complex. It's weird to say that I bear some respect for a guy who remembers Pinochet fondly, but there it is. Not for the point of view, certainly, but for the person, however flawed.

Thomas' leaving will likely make it easier for a broader range of opinion to be expressed on RS. I hope folks there see that as a good thing.

Thanks -

[idlemind]

Gary, I can't say what Bruce was referring to, but I think there is ample evidence that even if US troops are the best-trained combat force in history, they have not received enough training as an occupying force for Iraq. (Then again, my idea of sufficient training would involve several months of intensive training in the culture and language of the country they are to be occupying.)

[double-plus-ungood]

...the whole crew at Obsidian Wings...

Was that a shot at Charles?

[TTT]

Thomas' "exterminate-the-subhumans" rhetoric so closely mirrored that of Josef Goebbels, perhaps he should "retire" in the same manner too.

[MoeLarryAndJesus]

Thomas isn't being entirely upfront about his reasons for retiring as a blogger. His real reason is that he needs to wrap up his affairs and get ready for his next job. In January of 2009 he's following Dick Cheney to Dubai, where he will serve as the Evil One's Head Knobpolisher.

Water finds its own level, and so has Thomas. (And that flat head of his will come in handy, too.)

[Good Riddance]

Another moron bites the dust. Good riddance, Thomas. May you goosestep into oblivion.

[Gary Farber]

"Another moron bites the dust."

I'm sure some will find it priggish of me, but I fail to see how iterations of simple abuse is flattering to our side.

It's one thing to make an interesting observation that happens to be rightfully scorching.

It's another to just say "neener neener, you're so dumb!"

Because the latter simply makes the writer look like they're five years old.

It's definitely not the sort of agreement I want.

--------
For the record, I'm still having to make multiple efforts to post every single comment, involving deleting cookies each time, making sure "remember personal info" isn't checked, changing e-mail addresses in that field with each post, randomly changing the other fields, and so on. It's incredibly tiresome. It's a large effort. Can someone please fix this thing?

[Gary Farber]

"but I fail to see how iterations of simple abuse is flattering to our side."

Or even are flattering.

[Vargus]

Another scumbag down the drain. Good riddance.
By the way,wait until you see how much we on the left REALLY hate you pedophile republic scum.

[hilzoy]

Vargus: The posting rules prohibit incivility. Do it again and you will be banned.

For your own sake, remember that hatred is a poison.Usually it doesn't do too much damage to the people you hate, but it does enormous damage to you.

[Gary Farber]

Two unidentified comments in a row in that line certainly could be a coincidence, but a quick repetition would certainly suggest a troll.

On an entirely different note, Hilzoy, the likely Asperger's side of me is unreasonably bothered by the formatting problems in this post I mentioned here. Any chance you might update, and resolve the thing?

[ImprecisePsychic]

So is Thomas really going off to work with Rumsfeld?
RedState's occasional writer 'AcademicElephant'(Victoria) is now employed by Rumsfeld.
Quite a team he has assembled. What is Rumsfeld up to?

[hilzoy]

Sorry, Gary: fixed. (I hope.)

[BobN]

Generally applicable advice: if you find yourself thinking of large numbers of people as "filth," it's quite likely time for a long, long holiday.

[Gary Farber]

"Sorry, Gary: fixed. (I hope.)"

Thanks so much, Hilzoy! My inner crazed neurotic, who turns out to be my outer crazed neurotic some of the time, such as this, thanks you muchly!

You did indeed correct the first error!

Although I am muchly relieved, for little rational reason, since you seemed to express a hope to fix the post entirely, I will mention gently that the second link still appears recursively, as if Thomas linked to himself.

Not really important in any scheme of things. I really shouldn't let that sort of thing bother me. It's some sort of weird need to see things in order. I truly can't explain why that sort of thing bothers me so, which is how I understand that it's irrational.

But, hey, I did make a living out of channeling it into proofing and the like, for a while.

Now if only I could get all restaurants to turn over their menu editing and proofreading to me, and all sign-makers....

[Free Lunch]

Gary, greengrocers need your help badly.

[Gary Farber]

"Gary, greengrocers need your help badly."

Yes, them, too. There are legions of wild apostrophes out there that need to be hunted down and killed. They breed like tribbles.

And I'm the Terminator to do it.

For just a quarter a punctuation mark, that's all I ask.

[freD]

It sure must be unpleasant these days to be from the party that believes government power should be kept at a minimum, unless it’s your own party that’s in government power. I mean, when your party’s ideology gets to be more important than actually doing the job of governing you’re bound to get ideological goofballs into power who can’t do the job as well as the other guy, if at all.

Now I’m no genius, but I really think that if you’re trying to peddle the ideology that government is bad, and your own governing is bad, well.. it just doesn’t look very good.

Maybe there’s a lesson somewhere in there for Thomas.