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June 17, 2007

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Thanks for highlighting this Hil. I’m speechless, and given other factors that may be a good thing.

I have a suggestion for Mr. Bush on where to find the savings to make this badly-needed vets bill revenue neutral and then some.

Ditch the freaking "missile defense" program. It doesn't work now, it won't work anytime in the foreseeable future, it's a defense contractor porkfest, and it's destabilizing.

I want to say a few things as a Vietnam veteran of the last year of that war (1972):

1. We KNEW we wouldn't be honored when we got back. So it wasn't a surprise when things were tough afterwards.

2. I can't resist pointing out that the VA coldness toward this soldier is what you can expect from single-payer government health care. They offered him group therapy, after all, did they not? The VA has developed vast improvements over the last ten years, it's probably as good as government care can get, in other words, it's amorally mediocre.

3. As an accountant, I know instinctively that the VA is afraid of its limited resources being drained away by hypochondriacs (who are ultimately the only winners of government health care). As an organization, the VA has to protect itself with its limited resources; as with any organization, the survival of the system is more important than providing good service to individuals.

4. It's gonna get worse. I live within walking distance of a VA hospital. Since I knew my Vietnam service would be spit upon, I developed a real white collar career for myself with real medical coverage, which I use instead. Other veterans aren't as cunning and grimly determined, so they depend on it. I know some of the employees at this VA center. I asked them if they noticed that the Korean veterans are worse off than the WW2 veterans? The Vietnam veterans are worse off than that? An employee agreed. "Get ready for the Iraq veterans," I said grimly. "They are going to be pariahs when they get back to the US and leave the service."

OCSteve, this is actually in response to something you said on the other thread. I hope you still feel proud of your service and the services themselves. I think a lot of both current and former members of the military services have the same feeling that honest Republicans like you have about your party.

It a "What the f--k happened " type of feeling.

UC, logic is obviously not your strong suit. Your point number 2 is illigical and maybe that is why you couldn't resist it. The tresults have nothing to do with single payer health-care. The same results are occuring in the private sector, but, based upon my knowledge of the MH field,the private sector is doing even a worse job of it.

john miller (and hilzoy) – I am and always will be proud, I will not let them take that away from me. It is just diminished today, to what extent I am not yet sure. I trusted too much based on assumptions that seem to have been way way wrong. Lesson learned.

I am and always will be proud, I will not let them take that away from me. It is just diminished today, to what extent I am not yet sure.

You can be rightly proud of what you were a part of.

If it's turned into something very different with the same name, perhaps it can again become something to be proud of. That took a lot of work after vietnam, but they succeeded that time. Recovery isn't entirely unprecedented.

I can't resist pointing out that the VA coldness toward this soldier is what you can expect from single-payer government health care.

Funny, considering a member of my family whose had serious depression issues has changed psychologists four times thus far (two because of a bad working relationship, one because the shrink moved, and once because my family member moved). But I guess our Canadian system is backward or something.

saying that the President will not veto the bill if what he regards as its excess spending is not made up by cuts in other bills.

I think you misspoke (mistyped, whatever); don't you mean he WILL veto if the spending is NOT made up for with cuts in other bills?

Wait, nevermind. I should have read the link a little more carefully; the President is threatening to veto other bills to allow for this one.

John Miller's criticism of my "illigical" post just doesn't hold water.

The VA has to cut costs to stay in budget, a national legislated amount that is inflexible. They don't have a choice. The VA has "moved up" to the top of federal hospital care, which is to say amoral mediocrity. This has everything to do with being federally funded.

Since Miller is in the mental health field himself, he should know that mental health issues are a bottomless pit. The government doesn't like to cover it (you don't, and never will, get Medicare coverage for comprehensive mental illnesses, the money isn't there for it) and, naturally, the big health insurance companies avoid it as the sink hole that it is. The VA is in a UNIQUE place, though, because it serves the people who have a job that really does drive them crazy. Skinny war veterans are twice as likely to commit suicide as the general population. I know people who never really got back to normal from Vietnam.

So the VA "should" be stuck with treating crazy people, because they were determined sane, sent into battle, and the wiring shorted out.

I don't entirely understand why the red-blooded, flag waving, perpetually patriotic Republican Party is so chary about ponying up the money for this. Republicans used to avoid war and support veterans. Under Bush's father and under "W," it's gone the other way.

Five or six years ago, the VA had a deservedly bad reputation. There was a thorough study that said, on average, you had a 40% change of dying from your first heart attack or stroke in America --unless-- the VA was treating you, in which case the odds were 50%!

The VA actually did something about it. They start patient treatment with a battery of lab tests, now -- very thorough and definitive. This has improved their scores dramatically. They've also attracted, as patients, many people (like me) with real health insurance. We've paid in $10 billion to the VA.

But there are still problems. The drunks and the drug addicts suck in a lot of money and the long-term cure rate is slow. A lot of minds snap under the pressure of war, and schizophrenia remains stubbornly incurable; perhaps it is the most stubbornly incurable disease known to mankind.

Policies change in a heart-beat, it is a top-down bureaucracy with constant budget issues, and this means the turnover rate among professionals is astronomical (I think the MD turnover at the nearest VA hospital runs around 200% a year). This means I never know who I'm going to see.

There are supposed "watchdogs" to spy on the VA and lobby for good care and conditions -- the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars. As a member of both organizations, I am underwhelmed by their lukewarm support of hospital care and their absurd rah-rah enthusiasm for an unending colonial occupation of Iraq. I don't think the management of AL and VFW understands the price the young warriors are actually paying in this particular conflict. Nor do I think they understand the political cipher that military matters amount to these days -- the military and its members represent a smaller and smaller slice of the population and GNP, and Congress knows those demographics.

It behooves us to get into as few wars as possible, win them right away, and take care of our wounded. But I don't trust either party to do that.

And Iraq is a peculiar, open, ulcerating wound, proved by the inability of the Army to recruit enough new soldiers. Young men aren't ambitious about becoming prison guards or having a limb blown off while driving in a truck convoy.

Perhaps because of Vietnam, I worry that our clumsy occupation is incubating further conflicts in the years ahead. And I know the veterans won't be coming home to a warm and thankful community for the most part.

Some can't get a job, start drinking, and fall flat. THEN they come to the VA. This is the typical background of the typical patient at my local VA facility.

UC, I think you've explained most of your stuff very very clearly and it's hard to argue with it. The part that looks like sheer prejudice is the part about "single-payer government health care" and even then what you say looks accurate in itself.

I believe that what John Miller is objecting to about your second point is not that you are wrong about single-payer government health care. It's that single-payer health care in general is in the same position. Do you expect to get adequate health care payment from a private health insurer? They tend to have a mostly-fixed budget too, and so they must deny coverage to some people. Maybe you'll luck out, as you might at the VA. Or if you get denied coverage you can sue and hope you live long enough to collect. Mental health? My insurance would pay for 10 sessions with a psychiatrist, total. It would give big discounts on psychiatric drugs. If you think you might go crazy, don't use my insurer. Don't have my job.

In theory my employer should do careful comparison shopping to get the most potential health care for me for the least cost. But health care plans are extremely complicated. Very very hard for my employer (who has great expertise in a different arcane specialty) to understand which plan gives better health care. Much easier to see how much it costs. My employer has a conflict of interest when choosing my health care provider.

This is no specifically a government problem. We'd have this problem whether government was involved or not. Basicly, we started out with catastrophic health insurance -- everybody pays and the people who're unlucky enough to need healthcare get funded.

But now we have the reverse -- everybody needs more healthcare than they can afford, and some lottery winners get it.

If you work for 19 years for one company and then you get an expensive life-threatening disease and your company's insurance adjuster denies your claim, then we can make the moral argument that it's your own fault. It was your lookout to check up on that insurance company and seen that it did this sort of fraud, and you should have switched to a job with better health coverage.

Your health is ultimately your own responsibility, just like it's your responsibility not to buy a home over a toxic waste dump or drink contaminated water or breathe the air downwind from a big polluter. It's up to you to know everything about everything that might hurt you. However, I find that this moral stand is much more satisfying to me when bad things happen to somebody else than when bad things happen to me. All in all the economy runs far more efficiently when people can concentrate on their jobs and not have to know everything about everything.

This is not a problem with government. It's just a problem that government doesn't solve. But here we've gotten away from your valid points about our health care problems because in your point #2 you twice used the word "government". If the government was paying private health insurers to insure soldiers at private hospitals would things much better? All that is a side issue, but somehow when you referred to that side issue a *little* bit got responses.

This is what this war given to us,loss in the both side..Still thinks gets worser day by day..I really feel bad for Cruz condition...
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