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May 03, 2007

Comments

What disagreements I have with your politics are dwarfed by my approval of your musical taste.

Incidentally, it's simply untrue that pouring Coca-Cola in a glass of Maker's Mark is a good way to ruin bourbon. It's the best way.

That is so wrong in so many ways I don’t know where to start…

Henry Rollins would say that The Ramones cure all political disagreements -- for at least as the long as the set lasts -- but I tend to think that common ground on the more obscure punk and post-emo bands make such cures more permanent.

Incidentally, I was introduced to Jawbreaker in '92 by a much smarter friend, and enjoyed it and Blake's follow-on act (Jets) until the break up. (Yes, even through the much-maligned later albums.)

That said, let's find something to disagree upon. Resolved: the Sex Pistols arguably remain the greatest punk band of all time, and "Holidays in the Sun" remains the greatest of their output.

That is so wrong in so many ways I don’t know where to start…

I do concede that the bourbon is ruined. But my profane love of Maker's and Coke comes honestly from an even youthier moment when I thought Southern Comfort was da bomb. Of course, we didn't say "da bomb" back then and no one says "da bomb" now, which serves to remind that, even in 1998, my youth was relative.

And, yes, I'm embarrassed to mention my heretofore secret former love of SoCo.

Southern Comfort

Dude – talking about going from bad to worst! Phft.. Phft…

(OK, I must admit to a youthful mistake [repeated several times] with SC and Mountain Dew. The thought of it now may make me ill.)

it's simply untrue that pouring Coca-Cola in a glass of Maker's Mark is a good way to ruin bourbon. It's the best way.

i'll agree, for the hell of it, since i like my MM on the rocks. but Jack n Coke is a damn fine treat.

SoCo and...Mountain Dew?! OCSteve wins the internets.

Re - Sex Pistols=teh greatest: while I'll concede Holidays In The Sun has perhaps the greatest riff of all time, (IMO) the 'greatest punk band of all time' title (or at the very least 'most quotable') belongs to Crass.* Banned From The Roxy has the best opening of a punk song EVAR:

Banned from the Roxy... O.K.
I never much liked playing there anyway.
They said they only wanted well behaved boys,
Do they think guitars and microphones are just f*cking toys?
Bonus fanboy geekery: Christ - The Movie.

*Best '80s hardcore band: Husker Du. There, I'm through being disagreeable (for now.)

(Full disclosure: I too once held an illicit affection for SoCo many moons ago. The shame is still too much to bear sometimes.)

Husker Du = hardcore? I always lumped them into the big post-punk early-80s alterna-pop pool that included the also-from-Minneapolis Replacements and a bunch of others.

Never experienced Southern Comfort and Mountain Dew, but I share OCSteve's visceral reaction to mention of the former. And sometimes the latter.

von,
since this is a non-political thread I can't give the obvious reason that you fail to admit that the Clash are the greatest punk band of all time. I won't argue re the greatness of 'Holiday in the Sun', though. (That's funny . . . 'Holiday in Cambodia' is also rather good. Coincidence???)

Patti Smith.

I applaud the nominations of both Crass and the Clash. I get the funny feeling that von's politics don't line up with either of theirs.
The Sex Pistols certainly remain iconic in a number of ways, but their style of fuck-everything anarchism has never appealed to me. I disagree with the more positive anarchism promoted by Crass and many many later punk bands, but it does appeal.
Since I think of punk-the-music as closely linked to punk-the-politics, I doubt von and I are going to agree. . .

Model 62:

Husker Du = hardcore? I always lumped them into the big post-punk early-80s alterna-pop pool that included the also-from-Minneapolis Replacements and a bunch of others.

Later in their career, perhaps. Mould and Co. began to transcend the hardcore ghetto around the time of Zen Arcade, but prior to that were considered a key part of the American hardcore scene (although the members of the band always expressed discomfort with the 'hardcore' label - 'It's Not Funny Anymore' from Metal Circus is their classic kiss-off to punker-than-thou orthodoxy).

Listen to Land Speed Record, 'In a Free Land' and Everything Falls Apart. At that time, HD had more in common aesthetically with fasterharderlouder groups like (eg) Minor Threat, The Meatmen (who sez punks didn't have a sense of humour back then?) or Negative Approach than Soul Asylum, The 'Mats or any other melodic Twin City alterna-rockers. Of course, latter day HD (especially the two Warner Bros. records) fits your description perfectly.

I share OCSteve's visceral reaction to mention of the former.

"Visceral" is exactly the right word here.

Loved "Do They Owe Us A Living" by Crass as a youth. Now I realize they owe us nothing.
I also loved the Clash, but they, like Bad Brains, always struck me as too musical and competent to be a true punk band.
SSDecontrol and Black Flag have to be up on my list.
Anything added to Maker's Mark is an improvement; even the name sounds like a WalMart house brand product.

Re - The Pistols, The Clash, Patti Smith*:

Yes that's right, punk is dead,
It's just another cheap product for the consumers head.
Bubblegum rock on plastic transistors,
Schoolboy sedition backed by big time promoters.
CBS promote the Clash,
But it ain't for revolution, it's just for cash.
Punk became a fashion just like hippy used to be
And it ain't got a thing to do with you or me.

Movements are systems and systems kill.
Movements are expressions of the public will.
Punk became a movement cos we all felt lost,
But the leaders sold out and now we all pay the cost.
Punk narcissism was social napalm,
Steve Jones started doing real harm.
Preaching revolution, anarchy and change
As he sucked from the system that had given him his name.

Well I'm tired of staring through sh*t stained glass,
Tired of staring up a superstars arse,
I've got an arse and crap and a name,
I'm just waiting for my fifteen minutes fame.
Steve Jones you're napalm,
If you're so pretty (vacant) why do you swarm?
Patti Smith you're napalm,
You write with your hand but it's Rimbaud's arm.
- Crass, 'Punk Is Dead'

:-P

*JFTR, I consider myself a huge Patti Smith fan.

SoCo and...Mountain Dew?!

I guess it was my generation’s (many of yours?) version of “Jaeger Shots”. Sugar, caffeine, and alcohol. Can’t say I am proud, but it got the job done. Surely (yeah yeah don’t call me Shirley) someone has heard of that? Very popular in the late 70s early 80s.

Now, I could not drink Mountain Dew much less SC.

Good bourbon, neat, or rocks if it is really hot out.

Got to go with the Clash.

I guess it was my generation’s (many of yours?) version of “Jaeger Shots”.

Do you mean Jager Bombs? Ew. Step away from the Red Bull, kiddies.

Scotch on the rocks FTW.

Do you mean Jager Bombs?

That’s it. Shows how out of touch I am. I tried it once because it was the happy hour special. Bubble gum - Ew covers it. Now the stories I could tell about Mountain Dew and SC – crap, can’t remember any…

I feel your pain - ever try Liquid Cocaine? Don't. Have forgotten most of my 29th birthday thanks to overconsumption of that ungodly concoction.

BTW, due to Health Canada regulations, the Canadian version of (regular) Mountain Dew doesn't contain any caffeine, as per Wikipedia. So us Canooks never enjoyed the visceral pleasure that you did.
;-)

the Canadian version of (regular) Mountain Dew doesn't contain any caffeine

What the heck good is it then? Sugar water?!?

Maker's Mark & Coke??!!

Begone, you foul heathen! Of course, I make perfect Manhattans with MM, so that's not so much better.... (A perfect Manhattan is made with sweet vermouth, plain Mahattan with dry). It's strange how quickly the large economy bottle of MM disappears around the house. Must be evaporating.

Talking about liquor-ish trips down memory lane, I had a rum and Coke recently, because I liked it in college. Well, I liked a lot of things in college I wouldn't touch now, and R&C turned out to be one of them. Lord, it was awful. I gave up after two sips.

But I wondered if it was awful because it just is, or because Coke isn't the same (I think they use corn syrup instead of sugar, or something) and therefore it changes the whole flavor of the drink. Makes it even sweeter, with not enough of that terrific battery-acid burn real Coke used to have.

My god, I used to love Coke. I'd drink the pure syrup when I had the chance (they used to sell the syrup as a remedy for upset stomachs). It's a wonder I have all my teeth, really. And a functioning pancreas...

"(I think they use corn syrup instead of sugar, or something)"

Unless you get Coca-Cola kosher for Passover or Mexican, or elsewhere than the barbaric United States.

Southern Comfort.... When you can't decide if you want bourbon or pancakes...

Rule of thumb I picked up as a bartender: no story that begins with "So there we were drinking Jager..." ends well.

Best version I ever heard of this was the story that began "So there we were drinking Jager..." and ended ten minutes later with "So there I was, buck naked in a cactus patch outside of Tijuana..."

But I wondered if it was awful because it just is, or because Coke isn't the same (I think they use corn syrup instead of sugar, or something) and therefore it changes the whole flavor of the drink. Makes it even sweeter, with not enough of that terrific battery-acid burn real Coke used to have.

That's exactly right. I can't drink mixed drinks with Pepsi for exactly that reason (it's even sweeter and "smoother", lacking the phosphoric bite that's key to mixing cola with liquor) and a mixed drink with real (e.g. Mexican) Coke is a different animal entirely.

the only thing a liberalish Republican can do at this point is to remember their youth.

As opposed to us aging hippie Democrats, who for some mysterious reason can't remember much of our youth . . .

The very worst concoction I ever tried was something called a "Flaming Troll"--which consisted of tequila and root beer. Possibly something else, but I'm pretty sure that was the majority of it. Sickly-sweet, and the root beer somehow managed to mask the impact of the tequila. Easy to drink far too much of it far too quickly--which I did, at one party.

Nowadays I'm pretty fond of Barenjager, when it comes to drinks with "jager" in the name. I tried a Jager Bomb once and thought it was one of the most disgusting things I'd ever tasted in my life.

I went through a punk phase at one point. Thankfully, it was just a phase, and mostly a musical one rather than a lifestyle. There are still a few songs I enjoy, and I still think Jello Biafra's spoken word albums are fun to listen to, but I'm pretty over it in general.

Since I am of an age where I was once able to say that Elvis would never last, most of the music that you youngsters mention is well outside my realm of knowledge. I will avoid saying that it really shouldn't even be considered music as I don't want to be like my parents.

As far as SoCo, my one and only experience with that was having a shot of Soco, followed by a can of Pabst Blue Ribbon, repeated 8 times. I drove 15 miles home but only remember the first mile and the last half mile. Was the last time I ever drank and drove.

we were out camping last weekend (Merlefest! about as far from punk as you can get without a bassoon) and a guy showed up with a full bottle of Jager... and then drank 75% of it himself - in one night. disgusting. the stuff tastes like Vicks 44.

I'll second (or third) the Crass nomination. Punk f**king rock. "Sheepfarming in the Falklands" is gloriously irate, profane and um, crass.

Huh. I was trying to think of vile things I drank in college, and couldn't come up with any, other than some nameless beer from kegs.

All my candidates for 'Worst Drink Evar' come from the summer when my sister and I tried to find a strawberry daiquiri in the Middle East. It was hilarious, but not exactly a recipe for success.

My worst sexual adventure happened in college under the influence of something I called Dr. Gin, which was simply Gin and Dr Pepper. Just typing it makes me ill.

For those with nothing better to do, here's a video of Crass' Where Next, Columbus?

I had a Danish roommate. Akvavit and Glogg are nasty (on their own--I never mixed them, though that would be still worse).

Experience taught me that one should *never* drink rumcoke's in the sun. Having a partner complain to the bartender that there is not enough tequila in the Marguarita's is also a very bad idea.

I usually stick to wine and beer, and if I want something stronger I prefer a nice single malt whiskey or a good cognac. Most other drinks are too sweet for me.

Southern Comfort

Dude – talking about going from bad to worst! Phft.. Phft…

Not even close -- you haven't gone far enough down the ladder to hit Yukon Jack yet. So sickly sweet it makes SoCo taste like a glass of lime juice.

Yukon Jack

Wow. I had forgotten that one. Truly truly vile stuff.

Akvavit and Glogg are nasty

yeah. they taste like mouthwash you'd find at a health-food store:

    Cosmic Bob's All Natural Mouth Freshener made with all natural herbs and spices no artificial sweeteners or preservatives

I had a (thankfully short) period in college where I would open a bottle of beer (usually Moosehead), drink about a quarter, refill with Jack Daniels and drink.

As for the sweetness of mixing liquor with soda -- try less sweet sodas like ginger ale or club soda. My typical mixed drink these days is gin (preferably Tanqueray) and ginger ale.

My typical mixed drink these days is gin (preferably Tanqueray) and ginger ale.

i like a good ol' Gin n Tonic, myself.

also, if you can get your hands on some ginger beer or some good sharp ginger ale (ex. Blenheim's, not Canada Dry or Schweppes) and some dark rum (preferably Gosling's Black Seal), you can make a "Dark And Stormy" (or, "short and curly", as my wife likes to call them). it's apparently the national drink of Bermuda. quite delicious.

OT: the pie factory has been updated to handle ObWi's HTML changes.

Ouzo and Tang.

Bachelor party slash camping trip.

Zorba the Greek meets the Space Shuttle disaster.

Most geographic distance between the deed and the consequences:

Two bottles of tequila shared among three of us in the hills of Kowloon above Hong Kong --- rough flight across the South China Sea the next day to Manila --- taxi ride to a pension on Manila Bay --- ralphing into shrubbery in pension courtyard --- standing up --- feeling pretty good --- world goes black --- falling straight backwards --- head meets pavement --- slight concussion ---girlfriend (now wife) imagines meeting my mother for the first time as my casket is offloaded from the plane stateside.

Most powerful drink ever, not involving alcohol: summer of 1971 -- arriving near L.A after hitchhiking across country -- somehow meeting large group of folks on beach -- pie tins filled with a foul brown liquid passed around bonfire as the sun nukes the horizon -- head separates from body and begins to hum and rattle from within like a veterinary pharmacy in an earthquake --- mythological creatures from 47 different cultures appear during the night -- I awake alone late the next glistening morning -- my stuff arranged neatly beside me -- Sandra Dee, Annette Funicello, and Squeaky Fromme surfing in bikinis.


I live.


I'll see your Yukon Jack and raise you Aristocrat. I barely let that stuff clean my grill anymore.

And people still drink Mountain Dew and a Whiskey. Okay, I still do. But I am in my mid-20s so I guess it is okay. It's cheaper then carting Sour mix all over the place.

The new version of that type of drink is Red Bull and Vodka.

A little sweet vermouth and a marachino (sp?) cherry, not to mention low temperature, will make any rot-gut bourbon taste good. Save the MM for the straight-up drinking.

I still get a great kick out of Stealing People's Mail.

I had an unfortunate experience with bourbon when I was about 16. Not unfortunate in the usual way that adjective is used with bourbon.

When I was around that age (many years ago) I spent a part of each summer at my grandparents. Grandpa owned the grocery store in a very small Iowa town just above the Missouri border. I helped with deliveries. One year we made a delivery run that took us from the old blacktop, to gravel, and a couple miles along a two-rut dirt lane. The old man who lived in the shack at the end of the lane next to the limestone bluff paid for the box of groceries with a couple of mismatched bottles of bourbon, "From the last barrel that grand-daddy put up."

I've been trying to find -- and failing -- a reasonable legal facsimile ever since.

maraschino

What's worse than not being able to spell is not being able to spell and knowing it.

I also loved the Clash, but they, like Bad Brains, always struck me as too musical and competent to be a true punk band.

I agree. The Clash could play and write, which automatically disqualified them as a "true punk" band.

"Since I am of an age where I was once able to say that Elvis would never last, most of the music that you youngsters mention is well outside my realm of knowledge. I will avoid saying that it really shouldn't even be considered music as I don't want to be like my parents."

My more updated version is that if it wasn't done pre-1977, at the latest, it isn't punk, but post-punk, or something else.

Later movements built on it, surely, but punk was a specific era and movement, that came and went quickly. What it inspired is a different story.

Yeah, the core was the Ramones and the Sex Pistols, though the overlap with the "New Wave" of the time is difficult to distinguish. (Technically, say, Television was punk, but really more New Wave.)

My own feeling is overwhelmingly biased by having seen these bands at CBGBs, and Max's Kansas City, and so on, in the mid-Seventies. Later stuff? Different movements. Not the same scene or music or era or stuff that I, at least, call "punk."

I'm not sure if my issue of "Punk #1" is still in storage, or lost (almost certainly the latter, probably), but I claim license from it, semi-nude picture of Patti and all.

I agree. The Clash could play and write, which automatically disqualified them as a "true punk" band.

Anyone who would use the term "true punk" isn't a true punk. :D

People don't dance no more
they just stand there like this
They cross their arms and stare you down and drink and moan and diss
- The Rapture's W.A.Y.U.H.

Anyone who would use the term "true punk" isn't a true punk. :D
Agreed. Nor is one who would comment on Obsidian Wings. I was more of a No Wave guy myself. The bands I saw at places like CBGBs and the Peppermint Lounge were Sonic Youth, Live Skull, Swans, Contortions and the like...
Actually, I was introduced to my current liquor of choice by Mark C. of Live Skull--Glenlivet, a decidedly non-punk on the rocks sipper.

Reppin' the Canadian scene (not meant as a representative sample - this is simply a selection of personal favs):

The Modernettes - Barbra

The Viletones - Screaming Fist

Pointed Sticks - Out of Luck

Finally, here's something from a band whose members weren't even born in '77: Comeback Kid - Wake The Dead

I don't have much to add re drinking dangers, except that drinking multiple daiquiris, red wine, and half a bottle of rum in the same evening is not likely to end well.

I can't give the obvious reason that you fail to admit that the Clash are the greatest punk band of all time.

I like the Clash, but just never got into them.

Southern Comfort.... When you can't decide if you want bourbon or pancakes...

Which, in point of fact, is not a completely unknown occurrence.

The only acceptable way to ruin bourbon is to mix it with vermouth and bitters and top with a maraschino cherry. Everything else is heresy!

Besides, everyone knows it's JD that you mix with Coke.

The only acceptable way to ruin bourbon is to mix it with vermouth and bitters and top with a maraschino cherry. Everything else is heresy!

Besides, everyone knows it's JD that you mix with Coke.

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