Unfair To Trains

by hilzoy

Since, as I'm sure you will all be astonished to learn, I am not one of Don Imus' regular listeners, I didn't hear about his unbelievably offensive remarks until today. For those of you who are even more out of it than I am, here they are, in all their glory:

"IMUS: That's some rough girls from Rutgers. Man, they got tattoos and --

McGUIRK: Some hard-core hos.

IMUS: That's some nappy-headed hos there. I'm gonna tell you that now, man, that's some -- woo. And the girls from Tennessee, they all look cute, you know, so, like -- kinda like -- I don't know.

McGUIRK: A Spike Lee thing.

IMUS: Yeah.

McGUIRK: The Jigaboos vs. the Wannabes -- that movie that he had."

I wasn't going to write about this -- I mean, honestly, what is there to say? -- until I started reading various responses. For starters, there's this, from Howard Fineman, Newsweek's chief political correspondent:

"You know, the form of humor that you do here is risky, and sometimes it runs off the rails. Most of the people who listen to this show get the joke most of the time, and sometimes, you know, as David Carr said in The New York Times this morning, sometimes you go over the line so far you can't even see the line. And that's what happened in this case."

Curiously, Tom Oliphant used the same metaphor to describe Imus' remarks:

"But even I could see the beginning of what appeared to me to be a riff. And the train went off the tracks, which, you know, can happen to anybody. And, of course, what counts when the train goes off the tracks is what you then do."

The train went off the track? I don't think so. Consider what happens when an actual train derails. There you are, driving it. You approach a curve. Gauging the right speed to take it at is always a bit tricky. This time, you get it wrong, and -- oh my God -- the train goes off the tracks.

Is this in any way analogous to Imus' comments? No. For one thing, he is not piloting a difficult piece of heavy machinery. He is piloting his mouth, which, as an adult, he is expected to be in full control of. For another, there is no perfectly good conversational curve that, if misjudged, might lead normal, decent people to go off the rails in this way. It's not as though decent people might start out discussing real estate or the weather, get things slightly wrong, and suddenly, to their horror, find themselves describing hard-working and successful female basketball players as 'nappy-headed hos'. That just doesn't happen.

I mean: can any of you imagine some situation in which you could find yourself using the phrase 'nappy-headed hos'? I tried, and the closest I got was imagining that I was participating in some free lice-checking program for prostitutes. Having once had to comb all the nits out of my own hair, I can imagine that the kinkiness of someone's hair might suddenly become a lot more salient than it normally is. But even then I don't think I'd use the term 'hos', or even 'whores'. And, needless to say, Imus wasn't in any such situation. He was not doing their hair. And they were not prostitutes. They were members of a basketball team who had made the NCAA title game for the first time ever, and who had done precisely nothing to bring this on, other than being black and female. Which, apparently, is enough to make the train that is Don Imus derail. And that, of course is the problem.

Here's an excerpt from their coach's statement:

"Throughout the year, these gifted young ladies set an example for the nation that through hard work and perseverance, you can accomplish anything if you believe. Without a doubt, this past season was my most rewarding in 36 years of coaching. This young team fought through immeasurable odds to reach the highest pinnacle and play for the school's first national championship in a major sport.

To serve as a joke of Mr. Imus in such an insensitive manner creates a wedge and makes light of the efforts of these classy individuals, both as women and as women of color."

It was probably one of the biggest days of their lives, and he dragged them through the dirt. Thanks to Don Imus, most people will remember this team not as the team that took Rutgers to the championship, but as the team Don Imus called nappy-headed hos.

That's a terrible thing to do. It has nothing in common with a train going off the tracks. Nothing except the damage.

Don Imus deserves to be fired. He probably should have been fired quite a while ago -- say, when he called Gwen Ifill a "cleaning lady". But he should be fired now. Because some things are just not OK.

***

A few more notes:

First, Howard Fineman also said this:

"You know, I don't know what'll happen. I think -- you know, it's a different time, Imus. You know, it's different than it was even a few years ago, politically. I mean, we may, you know -- and the environment, politically, has changed. And some of the stuff that you used to do, you probably can't do anymore.

IMUS: No, you can't. I mean --

FINEMAN: You just can't. Because the times have changed. I mean, just looking specifically at the African-American situation. I mean, hello, Barack Obama's got twice the number of contributors as anybody else in the race.

IMUS: Amen.

FINEMAN: I mean, you know, things have changed. And the kind of -- some of the kind of humor that you used to do you can't do anymore. And that's just the way it is."

Note to Fineman: what Imus said was never OK. It was not OK during the nineteenth century. It was not OK during the Jim Crow era. It was not OK during the 1950s. It is not OK now.

Second: Lots of people say Don Imus is a great guy. I am perfectly prepared to believe that he does not harbor evil malevolent thoughts in his heart. But, frankly, I don't care. He is paid to speak, and he doesn't seem to be able to do it without vileness. He should not be paid for this.

Third: I hope no one brings up political correctness in this context. There are some things that no one should say; things to which the proper response really is outrage. If epithets don't convince you of this, consider such other vile statements as: If you pay me enough, I'll let you have sex with my children. Being outraged by something genuinely outrageous is completely appropriate.

The problem with political correctness was not that it involved outrage at racial and other epithets. Sometimes those epithets deserve outrage. The problem was that people who were politically correct, in the pejorative sense, applied this outrage much too broadly. The example that has always stuck in my mind was a protest over a poster for some student event involving Mexican food, on which the words "come spend a lazy afternoon" also appeared. (The problem, apparently, was using the words "lazy" and "Mexican" on the same poster. I saw the poster; there was no way to think that the word "lazy" applied to, or for that matter had anything at all to do with, Mexicans.) One problem with responses like that is that they're unfair to the people they're directed at, who are apparently supposed not just to refrain from describing people in insulting ways, but from using words that have been used to insult people in combination on entirely separate parts of the same poster.

Another problem, though, is that it discredits a perfectly legitimate response, in the same way that calling every injustice, even minor ones, "another Holocaust" devalues the Holocaust. You shouldn't call every minor thing a Holocaust precisely because it's important to save that term for things that genuinely deserve it. And it's important to distinguish between occasions that merit genuine outrage and those that do not precisely to preserve your ability to respond appropriately to things that are truly outrageous.

And, for my money, what Imus said was truly outrageous.

Finally: if anyone finds a list of Imus' advertisers, let me know, and I'll link to it.

Comments

[Lesly]

I just remembered this:

Imus Executive Producer: Imus Executive Producer: Carroll is "The Kind of Woman Who Would Wear One of Those Suicide Vests, Sneak Into the Green Zone"

Best wishes with the firing.

[wonkie]

It is beyond belief to me how we allowed our culture to backslide to the point where people who are supposed to be mainstream can say this kind of thing and not be immediately fired.

Suspension isnn't enough. He needs to be fired.

Jeez, I can only imagine the result if he made that statememt in the hallway of one of the local high schools. I wish!

[wonkie]

PS I think that Fineman meant that this sort of remark was OK a couple years ago when the Republicans were on the upsurge. Seriously.

[Slartibartfast]

Yes, a couple of years ago, Republicans were gaily tossing "nappy-headed hos" about as if they were beads at Mardi Gras. I know I was, at least.

I don't know if Imus "deserves" to be fired. I do know that the very small odds of me ever tuning in to his show have dwindled by a couple of orders of magnitude.

Actually, the best thing that could happen to Imus is to sit down with the Rutgers basketball team and explain it to them. I think that'd be pretty humbling, particularly if they're not in a forgiving mood.

[Charles W]

"...it's a different time, Imus."

Yes, the good old days, when a white man could go around saying things like this and just expect black people to lower their eyes in silent, powerless submission.

What a shame that Imus can now be exposed to public ridicule, and be held to account for the trash he puts on the airwaves.

[DaveC]

Candace Parker is very pretty, and she is a big star. You can't help but notice how attractive Candace and Nicky Anosike are.

Well, I can't.

[Vigilante]

That Senator from Arizona, McLaime, McClame, McCant, McBlame, McStain (or whatever his name is) accepted Don Imus' apology and forgives him, so he must be okay.

[bob mcmanus]

"If epithets don't convince you of this, consider such other vile statements as: If you pay me enough, I'll let you have sex with my children."

Bob Saget, of Funniest Home Videos or whatever, I think in The Aristrocrats tells this totally true story. As I remember: His wife had a very difficult and protracted delivery of one of his children/ Saget is in and out of the delivery room, she is screaming, he is crying, 36 hours of hell.

Finally, it is done, and exhausted Saget is looking thru the glass at his baby girl, and a close friend next to him says:"What a beautiful baby girl."

Saget:"For a dollar, you can stick your finger up her."

True story. It is kinda funny watching Saget trying to explain why he said it.

[Don Imus]

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php/should-imus-fired-over-his-379142.html>Should Don Imus be fired over his comment?

[rilkefan]

Is there some way in which the remark might be considered funny? I just don't get it. I can't see why he would say it as a racist, either (esp. following with saying the UT players are cute). Is there some regional version of English where someone might say that in a jocular way which McGuirk or Imus might be miserably failing to channel?

The Fineman comments struck me as a guy trying to too gently tell a friend he messed up very badly; the Oliphant comments were just bizarre.

Re trains - ok, I can understand actually that Imus might have a style based on a lack of caution - but if it's to such a degree that he goes off the rails so badly (Ifill's a hack, but a cleaning lady? That's just insane) on occasion the Oliphants out there have to say, You push some good causes and knowing you well I'm sure you're not a racist but you're a liability to what you believe when you do this sort of thing and it's time to pack it in.

[rilkefan]

Is there a posting rule against linking to something as vile as Stormfront appears to be without a warning label?

[Gary Farber]

Before I note a couple of things in passing, I'd like to emphasize the following points:

1. I've never listened to Imus beyond involuntarily hearing some bits and pieces over the years, and am in no way a fan.

2. I wouldn't begin to even think of dreaming of fantasizing of considering entertaining the idea of defending Imus, or his producers, or fans, here or anywhere, and neither would I do the same of what Fineman's said here, or any of Imus's media defenders (Tom Oliphant, who was also both on Imus this morning, and the PBS Newshour discussing it, and why he'd do that, in contrast to Clarence Page's making Imus take a pledge to never say racist things on-air again, in 1991, and never being asked back on the show again, for instance).

3. Lastly, it's fine with me if Imus loses his current gig, though I'm sure he'd pick up something else that paid extremely well soon enough, even if not quite the fortune he currently makes -- but, sure, given his long record of going off into racist "jokes," firing him seems perfectly reasonable.

Having, I hope, made those points clear, I just wanted to note a couple of things for the record. First, from the Washington Post review of Spike Lee's School Daze (one of Lee's few films that I've still not caught up to seeing, but I well recall many reviews and pieces about it):

"School Daze," with its pompous patchwork plot, is an arrogant, humorless, sexist mess. Based on Lee's days at Atlanta's Morehouse College, it pits the light-skinned "Wannabees" against the dark-skinned "Jigaboos" at make-believe Mission College. It's a juvenile, yet controversial, treatment of an intricate intraracial conflict. Lee, who has condemned Whoopi Goldberg for her blue contact lenses and Michael Jackson for his nose job, seems obsessed by racial cosmetics.

Though the movie is aimed at black viewers (with the hope of riling them), the Jigaboo heroes and Wannabee villains bear striking similarities to mainstream counterparts -- in "Revenge of the Nerds," say, with its blond frat brats and rainbow coalition of good guys. Here, the Jigaboos are led by Dap Dunlap (Larry Fishburne), who disrupts the frivolity of homecoming weekend by demanding that Mission divest itself of its holdings in South Africa. The Wannabee Greeks -- the Gamma Phi Gammas and their straight-haired girlfriends, the Rays -- mock and revile the undaunted Dap.

Then the nappy-haired coeds duel with their light sisters in a sudden musical number -- a "West Side Story"-style song-and-dance-off. Dap's lady Rachel Meadows (Kyme) leads the Jigaboos, and blue-eyed Jane Toussaint (Tisha Campbell) the Rays, in this processed hair-pulling contest. Toussaint, a slave to Gamma's Big Brother Almighty, is both adored and debased as Lee works out his id garbage onscreen. Ultimately, Big Brother gives her to the pledge Half-Pint (Lee) to be ravished. These characters are sexist, racist sadists and, yet, impossibly dull.

Just wanted to note that Imus wasn't pulling the reference out of nowhere, and likely had in the back of his head that that specific reference, since it was to a major Spike Lee film, was therefore "okay" to refer to. Again: I'm not defending him -- it just seems worth noting for the record (and that's all).

The other point, which is still not to defend Imus in any way, is re this:

It's not as though decent people might start out discussing real estate or the weather, get things slightly wrong, and suddenly, to their horror, find themselves describing hard-working and successful female basketball players as 'nappy-headed hos'. That just doesn't happen.

My only note is that comparing normal conversation to what a shock jock does seems like a very bad analogy.

Myself, I'm not remotely a fan of shock jocks, either as a genre, or of any individual. And clearly the industry/genre (kinda a mix, innit?) produces some truly disgusting individuals, appealing to hate in some cases (Imus, for all his faults, isn't at all in the same category as, say, a Michael Savage, but the latter seems to be, insofar as one can judge from the quotes that come up now and again, an example of a particularly horrible man).

But it does seem worth noting that comparing what any sort of dark/black humor/trying-to-be-outrageous radio talk show host does, to ordinary conversation, seems very off to me. It's not remotely normal conversation, any more than a comedian's monologue, no matter how good or bad, how insightful or crude and offensive (or racist/sexist/etc.), is normal conversation.

The job of the person in the "shock jock" genre appears to be to go up the edge of what's acceptable, and push the envelope at times, say stuff that the jock's fans know others will find shocking, yadda yadda. Not remotely an excuse for going to "nappy-headed hos," and I wouldn't compare that and Imus to, say, Lenny Bruce or George Carlin. But I wouldn't compare what he does, what shock jocks do, to normal conversation, either, since it isn't, remotely. (The apparently unique, or at least unusual, thing about Imus, is that he apparently has a split-personality show, alternating between the serious discussions with politicians, journalists and authors, and doing the shock jock stuff, in my second-hand understanding.)

That's all.

Oh, and I'll add that from the very brief portions of his discussion with Al Sharpton that were excerpted on the News hour that I saw, I didn't get the impression that Imus fully understood that "I'm a good person" isn't adequate, even when coupled with "who said a bad thing."

[Bruce Baugh]

I'm afraid I don't buy the "my good buddy isn't a racist, just a complete jerk" sort of defense in cases like these. Rilkefan, this isn't to pick on you - I trust you to have better judgment in friends, for starters. My feeling is that anyone who finds themselves talking about "nappy-headed hos" and the rest without immediately slamming on the mental brakes, backing up, apologizing, and going off to wash their brain out with soap for a while does have racist impulses. Someone who says something like that and doesn't immediately feel like the world's greatest putz of the moment is someone who's been spending too much time thinking of people of other races as objects and not enough as subjects.

I say this as someone who has, on several different occasions, realized I was carrying around racist baggage of my own, and did the un-fun work of clearing it out.

[Nell]

other than being black and female

And strong and accomplished, which apparently inspires the need to put them down in such an ugly way.

Slartibartfast's suggestion is therefore an excellent one, whatever happens to Imus' job (and that of his producer, who's just as much of a piece of work).

[Nell]

Is there a posting rule against linking to something as vile as Stormfront appears to be without a warning label?

You'd not heard of it? The presence of commenters who'd link to Stormfront pretty much settles the issue of whether racism's at the heart of this issue.

[Jesurgislac]

SlartI: Actually, the best thing that could happen to Imus is to sit down with the Rutgers basketball team and explain it to them. I think that'd be pretty humbling, particularly if they're not in a forgiving mood.

Why should the Rutgers basketball team ever be in the same room as Imus? You scrape a piece of dogsh*t off your shoe before walking into the house.

[Mr. A]

While I won't site political correctness as an excuse I will site the 1st Admendment which protects all sorts of speech. Especially that which is found to be offensive.

If you don't like what Imus said, don't listen to his show. If you are listening and don't like something you hear, change the station.

Why everyone in this country feels they have the RIGHT not to be offended at all times is beyond me.

[Bruce Baugh]

Mr A, this isn't about rights. It's about market transactions. It's about the intended audience saying "We do not wish to consume this product. We wish it removed." The seller then either removes it or doesn't. At no point are anyone's rights called into question.

If you believe that audiences ought not express disapproval of offered products - in this case, the semi-improvised vocal stylings of Mr. Imus, in other cases toothpaste, or coffee whose beans were grown a particular way, or whatever - then you do not in fact believe in free markets. If there ought not be this kind of feedback, then all targeted purchasers would be the helpless prisoners of would-be sellers. But in addition to the signaling mechanism of price, there is the the signaling mechanism of verbal feedback. Imus' broadcasters are not compelled to heed complaints; the goal of this kind of pressure is simply to make it worth their while to do so.

Welcome to free markets.

[Bruce Baugh]

It's worth noting, Mr. A, that Steve Ditko, the creator of the character whose name you're using as a handle, does get the point I just made. In his exposition on how free societies work, he includes vigorous public argument, including efforts to persuade others not to join with a cause or do business with its advocates. "I won't buy from you while you keep that creep on the air", "None of us will buy from you while you keep that creep on the air", and "Hey, people! We think that you shouldn't buy from them while they keep that creep on the air!" are all marketplace statements, just like "Tough, we're keeping him on the air" and "Okay, it's not worth the hassle, we're tossing him" are. Maybe you should go look at your own sources again, because you're implicitly setting up a God-given right to sell whatever you want without any feedback, and Ditko would never go along with that. If you'd rather keep the idea, you should find a handle that draws on someone who believes in it, like Ross Perot or Dick Cheney.

[Phil]

Why everyone in this country feels they have the RIGHT not to be offended at all times is beyond me.

Could you please cite, by name, all the people in this thread or any other who said they have a right not to be offended? Thanks in advance.

Oh, also, on the issue of rights, do you believe that Mr. Imus serves at the pleasure of his employer, who has a right to fire him or buy out his contract whenever they wish?

[Phil]

As far as the particular issue at hand, I confess to having done my share of outrageous stuff on college radio back in the 90s. Not that anyone was listening. The week that Kurt Cobain killed himself, my cohost and I -- both big Nirvana fans -- promoed that week's show with an excerpt from the song "Come As You Are," with each repetition of the line, "And I swear that I don't have a gun" punctuated with a gunshot, and the final one followed by a the sound of a heavy weight hitting the floor. That, our faculty advisor let through on the grounds that it was satire, if provocative. In bad taste, certainly, and probably not nearly as offensive as this Imus thing.

[Ginger Yellow]

Satire of what, exactly?

[liberal japonicus]

I have no idea where Imus got his phrase, but the source of'nappy-headed' for me has got to be Stevie Wonder I Wish, which has a hot cover version on the Happy Feet movie. From what little I know of Imus, he doesn't seem to have much originality, so I can well imagine him picking up the phrase from Happy Feet and thinking he thought it up himself.

[rea]

"I can well imagine him picking up the phrase from Happy Feet and thinking he thought it up himself."

"Nappy-headed," however, is not nearly so offensive when applied to penguins . . .

[russell]

Actually, the best thing that could happen to Imus is to sit down with the Rutgers basketball team and explain it to them.

You're more generous than I am.

My first thought was that he should suit up and play 15 minutes of one on one ball with any one of them. We'd see what he had to say then.

The reason all these fine upstanding folks are speaking up for Imus is that he makes airtime available to them and sells their books.

Thanks -

[Ugh]

The combination of "nappy-headed hos" and all the poems is going to produce some unique google hits, methinks.

[Slartibartfast]

Just wanted to note that Imus wasn't pulling the reference out of nowhere, and likely had in the back of his head that that specific reference, since it was to a major Spike Lee film, was therefore "okay" to refer to.

Welcome, Gary. I was wondering what you meant by "that specific reference", above.

Why should the Rutgers basketball team ever be in the same room as Imus?

Same reason the accused faces his accusers: a little justice, perhaps. Purely voluntary in this case, though.

Why everyone in this country feels they have the RIGHT not to be offended at all times is beyond me.

Speaking purely for myself, as always: if you don't like the comments here, that's just fine with me. After all, you don't have the RIGHT not to be offended, disgusted, puzzled, etc.

but the source of'nappy-headed' for me has got to be Stevie Wonder I Wish

Ah, I think I'm getting why Gary thought that movie was "that reference" (although I'm probably wrong about that). "Nappy-headed" isn't anything resembling a new appelation for black people. I was hearing it in middle school or earlier, and I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if it a lot older. I think the notion that Imus got it from either of these two specific sources is fairly thin.

In any case (and apologies for multiple comment replies in one comment, but I can't hardly ever comment here anymore) I still think Imus deserves his "apology accepted" moment, especially if it means he winds up being spiritually (or even physically) much the worse for wear.

[Slartibartfast]

My first thought was that he should suit up and play 15 minutes of one on one ball with any one of them. We'd see what he had to say then.

Oh, sure. "Explain(ing) it to them" could take any number of forms, including a little explanation in the other direction. In fact, without some feedback, as it were, an explanation by Imus might not be quite as much punishment as it could be.

[Ugh]

I still think Imus deserves his "apology accepted" moment, especially if it means he winds up being spiritually (or even physically) much the worse for wear.

Like Captain Needa.

[Slartibartfast]

That's exactly what I was visualizing.

[Slartibartfast]

Not comparing anyone to Darth Vader, mind you.

[Ugh]

God what a great line that was.

[jrudkis]

Imus' show is intended to shock, and he makes a living out of apologies. I can't get the show in Seattle, but I listened often in the 90's, and it was usually pretty funny..but he has always had uncomfortable moments and times that he crossed way over the line. Anybody remember the dinner he hosted for the Clintons? I think he is still apologizing.

His show fits a niche similar to the Daily show, in that it is topical, has interviews with top leaders, but is not serious most of the time: Kind of like the love child of Howard Stern and a Sunday morning talk show. So when you are too old for flatulence jokes, but too young for NPR, his show could make a morning commute.

I think my favorite Imus skit was when he was ripping "South Park" with "South Lawn" in recurring episodes, and it was the Clinton White House characters (Clinton was Cartman, I think). I can't recall many specifics, but at the end, you could always count on "Oh My God, they Killed Vince Foster" (in lieu of Kenny, in case anyone doesn't get the reference).

There is no reasonable explanation for the Rutgers issue, but taken as a whole for his show, it is pretty in line with everything he does as a comedian.

[stonetools]

I think we have to factor in that such phrases as "nappy headed hos" and "hard core hos" are a staple of hip hop music. It does seem a little precious to be piling on to Don Imus when one of the biggest hip hop hits of the past few years featured the chorus " There are some hos in this house".
I'm not apologising for Imus, but some black folks did open the door for this.
(I'm black, BTW)

[freelunch]

In line? Probably. Who cares. I have no use for those who routinely make coarse, sexist, racist, vile comments and get paid to do it just because America is full of people who aren't completely embarrassed to be caught listening to this aural fecal matter. We don't need companies that are so shameless that they cheerfully put these people on the public airwaves because they will make money pandering to the worst of us.

If this is what 'capitalism' is about, I might have to become a communist.

[G'Kar]

I cannot imagine what was going through Mr. Imus' mind when he made those comments, but I cannot conceive of a context in which they would be appropriate. Mr. Imus would be wise to resign, as that would at least demonstrate that he has some degree of understanding of just how thoroughly he erred.

[KCinDC]

I assumed Gary meant the "Jigaboos vs. Wannabes" reference, but that actually came from McGuirk, not Imus.

[javelina]

1) Imus has gone way over the line before this. If this doesn't get him fired I can't imagine what would (that he would say).

2) Re "nappy hair" - I can't believe I'm the first to bring up this book by Carolivia Herron, which got a white teacher suspended when she shared it with the African American kids in her NYC public elementary school class a few years ago. Very very different context, in which the word "nappy" is used by a writer who wants it seen as a positive attribute. The suspended-teacher episode and just the existence of the book led to a number of disquisitions about "political correctness" in the New York press and elsewhere. Me, I was on Ms. Herron's side. But except for one word being the same, I see no relationship between what she wrote and what Don Imus said.

3) I like the idea of Imus having to sit down with the basketball players ...

[Gary Farber]

"While I won't site political correctness as an excuse I will site the 1st Admendment which protects all sorts of speech. Especially that which is found to be offensive."

a) Since no one is suggesting that a law that violates the First Amendment be passed to punish Imus, this has nothing to do with anything.

b) As it happens, the FCC has a variety of regulations about what can and can't be said over the (limited) electro-magnetic broadcast spectrum, and because of the FCC's necessary jursidiction, the First Amendment still isn't relevant.

"Welcome, Gary. I was wondering what you meant by 'that specific reference', above."

IMUS: And the girls from Tennessee, they all look cute, you know, so, like -- kinda like -- I don't know.

McGUIRK: A Spike Lee thing.

IMUS: Yeah.

McGUIRK: The Jigaboos vs. the Wannabes -- that movie that he had."

That specific reference: which was to School Daze. Of course, whether Imus was thinking of that before McGuirk said it, I have no idea. But obviously McGuirk was referring to "School Daze," which seems relevant enough to be mentioned.

[Gary Farber]

Oh, almost forgot I was going to note Gwen Ifill's piece.

[Steve]

I used to listen to Imus on my drive to work, a decade or so ago. I was no big fan or anything, but it's not hard to be more entertaining than your typical local morning show.

Ironically, my favorite bit that I remember was a Garth Brooks parody aimed at Rush Limbaugh, which went "I like friends with white faces..."

[John Thullen]

Well, what am I to conclude from Imus channeling his penance thru Al Sharpton?

What's next?

Brittany being taken firmly to task for inadequate skirt-tugging on the Paris Hilton show?

Geraldo Rivera giving a tongue-lashing, while wearing sensible shoes, to Bill O'Reilly for over-the-top, but high-margin, opinion crapola?

The shades of Rabbi Kahane and Yasser Arafat appearing shamefaced on Albert Speer's "This Is Your Afterlife" late-night eternal cable show to confess to overheated rhetoric?

Mary Matalin and James Carville marrying and procreating and opening a home for wayward bulls---ters?

William Bennett throwing down a full house and sweeping the pot into his lap on a cable poker show, while regaling the assembled competitors about the hidden insights regarding maintaining one's virginity in the "The Princess and the Pea"?

Monica Goodling agreeing to testify in front of Congress but only if Danny Bonaduce is allowed to sit beside her and whisper the answers into her ear?

The DNA of Anna Nicole's baby confirming that Larry King is the lucky man?

American entertainment culture is like a stroll through Calcutta before sundown. The human spectacle is at once so depressing and impressive that you don't whether to volunteer at Mother Teresa's clinic or buy an expensive camera and see what National Geographic pays.

Incidentally, Hilzoy's opening gambit in the train metaphor "There you are, driving it" cracked me up, for some reason.

[Gary Farber]

Imus does offer to apologize directly to the team:

[...] Mr. Imus tried to stave off calls for his resignation by appearing yesterday on a syndicated radio program that has the Rev. Al Sharpton as its host and making a more complete apology for what he said were “repugnant, repulsive, and horrible” comments.

He said he was also trying to reach out to the team, its coach and players’ parents to issue an apology.

Mr. Imus said he wanted to try to “see if they’ll forgive me and if there is something that can be established here that I can do to begin to build something positive out of this — and then who knows?”

[...]

It is unclear whether members of the Rutgers team will agree to meet with Mr. Imus. The Rutgers athletic director, Robert E. Mulcahy III, said in a statement yesterday, “I have relayed the message of Don Imus and his offer to apologize in person to the students and asked them to let me know how they wished to respond if at all.”

Sharpton got off a good line here:

[...] Mr. Sharpton asked if the newspaper columnist Clarence Page had once gotten Mr. Imus to pledge not to do any more racial humor. Mr. Imus said he had.

“Do you repent once a decade?” Mr. Sharpton asked.

(I believe Page said last night that that took place in 1991, though I could be a bit off.)

Re sponsors, here are three, Hilzoy:

It was not known last night how advertisers, which have included Bigelow Tea, Chrysler and the New York Stock Exchange, would respond.

[wonkie]

About the time to which Mr. Fineman was referring: he says "a few years ago." He refers to political change. He then mentions that Obama has raised a lot of money. So there isn't any mystery to the time reference. What else could he possibly mean except that it was possible to get away with extreme rudeness a few years ago when the Republicans were on the ascendency, but not now since thhe political channge in Congress, and especially now that a black man is a succesful fundraiser on a White House campaign?

Imus shouldn't be viewed in isolation. He is part of a trend that includs callinng Clinton a bitch, cracks about Edwards being gay, attacks on Democrats as traitors, the demonizing of immigrants, insinuations that Muslim Americans must be traitors and so on. The media isn't righht or left so much as cowardly and responsive to changes in wind direction. When bullyinng got to be the norm in politics, it got to be the norm in the MSM, too.

Hopefully Mr. Fineman is right and the times have changed. Ginrich seems to think that bullying is bad politics now. Stevens was on NPR recently bemoaning the hate in the Senate. This is classic bully behavior: when the victim stands up, the bully (while never admitting to the bullying of course) stands down, at least on overt attacks. There has been a change in the political atmosphere and I'd be surprised if there wasn't also a change in the level of acceptance for rudeness from people who are considered mainstream.

[liberal japonicus]

Sorry to rehash a bit, but Slarti said

I think the notion that Imus got it from either of these two specific sources is fairly thin.

Sorry for not being clear, I didn't mean to postulate a source for Imus, just for me.

My speculation for Imus picking up the phrase from Happy Feet is more a speculation on how the whole territory of shock jocks operates, which is to find some cultural reference and try to make it their own, rather than that particular phrase. For example, the idea that 'ho' is somehow lodged in Imus' vocabulary is laughable. The genius of the shock jock is the genius of the magpie, with all the linkages involved with that.

[Gary Farber]

So the team is now meeting with Imus.

They held a long press conference. All three tv networks have led with very long stories at the top of their evening broadcasts (long as in, it's been seven minutes now, and none of the three seems close to over yet; that's an eternity in network news).

[Gary Farber]

Various Imus quotes you may not have seen.

[Gary Farber]

More on Imus advertisers, among other stuff.

[...] Staples, the office supply chain, as well as Miralus Healthcare, a pharmaceutical company that makes a headache medication called HeadOn, said yesterday that they had asked MSNBC to remove their advertising from the television simulcast of Mr. Imus’s radio program and run their commercials elsewhere.

Some advertisers had left the Imus program before last week’s remarks. AT&T stopped advertising in January, and General Motors stopped its radio ads (though it still broadcasts TV commercials with the simulcast.)

Procter & Gamble went a step further yesterday. It said that, for now, it had withdrawn all its advertising from MSNBC’s daytime schedule — a potential loss of more than $560,000 on an annual basis for the Imus simulcast alone, according to figures from Nielsen Media Research.

“We have to think first about our consumers,” said Jeannie Tharrington, a spokeswoman for the consumer products manufacturer, “so anyplace where our advertising appears that is offensive to our consumers is not acceptable to us.”

[...]

In the wake of the firestorm over his remark, Mr. Imus has pledged to purge the most offensive humor from his program.

“In that spirit,” said Stuart Applebaum, a spokesman for Random House Inc., whose imprints include Random House, Doubleday, Crown and Knopf, “our publishers will also evaluate their future advertising commitments for the program.”

Similar internal discussions are under way elsewhere.

Lumber Liquidators, a hardwood flooring company in Virginia, said its agreement to sponsor portions of Mr. Imus’s radio show was coming up for renewal, after its initial year. Tom Sullivan, the company’s chairman and founder, said that as recently as a few weeks ago, its continued association with Mr. Imus would have been a sure thing. Now, he said, he was unsure.

“I’ve been thinking about it the last few days,” he said in a telephone interview. “My girlfriend is black and she said not to do it.”

Nonetheless, he said he might well extend the contract, at least partly because advertising on Mr. Imus’s program had brought him new business, especially from customers in the New York area with high incomes.

There's more.

[wonkie]

Imus has been kicked off MSNNBC. (Hallelujah Chorus)

[Jon H]

Yay MSNBC.

Imus needs to spend a lot more time helping kids on his ranch.

[Jon H]

Another angle I haven't seen is, who's an old wino and cokehead to be calling *anybody* a ho?

Imus is just a nappy-faced old junkie.

[russell]

It does seem a little precious to be piling on to Don Imus when one of the biggest hip hop hits of the past few years featured the chorus " There are some hos in this house".

This has become a common observation when discussing Imus' comments.

A simple thought experiment.

There are lots of popular performers who present themselves as "rednecks" or some other stereotype of blue collar rural southerner. Lots. I don't need to enumerate them.

Imagine if Imus had said:

"Those Lady Volunteers are nothing but a bunch of no-account redneck trailer trash sluts".

How would that have been received?

Thanks -

[Ugh]

Looks like Imus got the full Captain Needa after all.

[Gary Farber]

"Looks like Imus got the full Captain Needa after all."

Not quite.

a) I know nothing about Imus' life or finances, but I'd assume, until corrected, that he has a few million stashed by now: enough to live long and very very comfortably.

b) Anyone want to bet a nickel as to whether he'll be on the radio somewhere, being well-paid, if only a fraction of what he was in recent years, a year from today?

Maybe he's so stained that he'll never have offers worth substantial money again, but that wouldn't be my first guess. I gather Mike Barnicle has been one of his regular guests.

[Ugh]

I don't know, I thought he came close to falling to his knees while clutching his throat and then disappearing from public view.

But seriously Gary, you're probably right, XM is almost sure to call.

[KCinDC]

This seems like just a normal stage in the shock-jock life cycle, though it made a bigger splash than usual. I'd hope at least that we won't see so many supposedly reputable people appearing as guests on any future Imus show.