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January 11, 2007

Comments

You mean you aren't Justin Timberlake? This puts everything in a whole new light ...

Anyways, as I said over at your blog, being grateful to us for the offer is like being grateful to us for being kind enough to take your vintage 60s Jag off your hands free of charge. Any time.

One thing, though: I made the offer on behalf of the whole collective, of which you are now, for better of for worse, a member. Von, Seb, and Andrew have the same vote I do.

Welcome!

all the talk about that other Latinate blogger today has left me with a bitter feeling towards Roman names... but, i'm sure i'll feel better in the morning.

welcome :)

So how 'bout that surge?

Much better since I had some TUMS, thanks for asking!

Oh, and welcome! *flings rose petals* welcome! to ObWi. I love a good soupcon of snark, and look forward to many lively posts.

Many thanks to hilzoy for recuiting you, and to you for falling for her blandishments.

Welcome! Also, I'm not sure if you were told, but it's custom for new frontpage posters to hand out presents to the commentariat.

On reflection, "collective" might not be the best term for the bunch of us, since von, Seb, and Andrew are conservatives. The local slang is 'the Hive Mind'.

that's funny spartikus - i was told that it was the other way around. hmmm, already a bait and switch it seems

Naah, publius; don't listen to spartikus: he pulls that "presents" bit on ALL the new frontpagers - all the ObWings regulars KNOW that the preferred gift from new members of the HiveMind is cash... we will be emailing you with PayPal details later... ;)

Seriously, welcome aboard!

ObWi ... the *only* blog to feature the author of the Federalist Papers! Congrats!

cool!

Welcome.

20,000 in baghdad joined by 300,000 iraqis is not a minimal change. When shinseki wanted a larger occupation force, there were no iraqis fighting with us. Now there are, and that number grows and is more effective every month.

Congrats on the move, and this site is much more blackberry friendly...which is the only internet access I have st fort Riley. Apparently they ban the internet in Kansasl probably because you can get birth control info here.

Kewl! Someone else with a -us for a suffix! Should we form a caucus?

Dear everyone: I am trapped in a Chinese fortune cookie factory hotel with internet but alas no email, so I am going to use this space to send a cryptic message to publius. Namely:

sm1ct4hulhu
HOBISS

As one of my sister's stuffed animals once wrote: DontaskwhyIdontnowhy.

Darn: Chinese fortune cookie factory was supposed to have a strikethrough.

One of these days I will master html.

roger - the crow flies at midnight

and so I guess this is the forum in which you will share your thoughts on the legality of Ted Kennedy's bill? I'm all eyes.

Also, I'm not sure if you were told, but it's custom for new frontpage posters to hand out presents to the commentariat.

That's entirely up to you, publius, but if you're desperately casting about for something festively packaged, I suggest that step one not be "Cut a hole in the box".

"I'll be joining the gang here until Hilzoy kicks me out"

or we drive you nuts. But you'll know that if you've read a few of our more energetic threads. (The honeymoon is usually two weeks - right, [name{s} suppressed]?)

yay

(about publius, not the surge)

welcome

byrningman where are you?

just to warn you, i've brought some rogues with me over here

I find Surge to be a second-tier caffeinated beverage, but I've always liked your blog, so I will give it another chance on your recommendation.

Oho! Good choice, hive mind, and welcome, publius!

Watch out for the kitten BTW. It might look harmless, but you definitely don't want to rub it the wrong way...

Justin WOULD have taken your post, but he brought Hilzoy the same 'gift' in a box he featured on Saturday Night Live, and...
Oh, Publius. Not you too?

Welcome aboard, publius. I look forward to discussing the finer points of the Federalist Papers with you. And don't listen to 'em about gifts. I have always considered my mere presence here gift enough to the commentariat.

Welcome aboard!

all the talk about that other Latinate blogger today has left me with a bitter feeling towards Roman names

Atrios? Maybe not.

Anyway, welcome, publius! I confess I haven't spent much more time than the last couple of minutes reading your blog, but if hilzoy and Andrew and Sebastian and von all agree, then you must indeed be Mostly Harmless.

Welcome aboard publius!

On the other hand, I think we've finally restored the proper balance, where lawyer front-pagers outnumber laypersons.

hilzoy and publius, my two favorite internet writers on one blog. i think my head is going to explode.

re: surge, i'm more worried about what bush plans to do in syria and iran than the i am about the surge.

just to warn you, i've brought some rogues with me over here

Some surges are better than others...

Welcome publius. That's three lawyers in the hive mind now. Counting the number of lawyers in the commentariat it seems that the US really *is* a paradise for lawyers.

Counting the number of lawyers in the commentariat it seems that the US really *is* a paradise for lawyers.

Plus, when the levee breaks, you can use them to caulk the gaps.

Where am I?? This isn't Legal Fiction...

Something tells me I'm forever going to be the poster with the least education here. :)

Since I left, Andrew, you might be right.

Lawyers aren't so much educated: it's more like we went to trade school -- think of it as HVAC repair.

"it's more like we went to trade school -- think of it as HVAC repair."

except for the degree of specialization. Very few HVAC repair tech's specialize in one brand, yet nearly all lawyers specialize in one area of the law, and even in sub-specialities.

Also, lawyers don't get to charge extra for working nights and weekends, it comes with the job at most firms.

sm1ct4hulhu
HOBISS

Cthulhu ?

Cthulhu Circus!

lawyers don't get to charge extra for working nights and weekends

In fairness, neither do soldiers. ;)

Welcome publius, should be fun.

FWIW, this publius comes equipped with the American Footprints seal of bloggy approval.

There, that should put any skeptical minds at ease.

"but if hilzoy and Andrew and Sebastian and von all agree, then you must indeed be Mostly Harmless."

I suspect when we all agree it isn't mostly harmless.

In a similar vein I think I would make a good co-dictator by unanimous consent with katherine. I mean until one of us strangled the other. :)

Who's this Serge fellow everyone's talking about?

Namely:

sm1ct4hulhu
HOBISS

Alas, Hilzoy, at least one of us here knows what the first is, and can guess the second. Of course, I won't use it, but you might want to change it.

FWIW, this publius comes equipped with the American Footprints seal of bloggy approval.

Thanks, Eric: now maybe publius can use his new Secret ObWi Blogpowers to change the blogroll link to your splendid site away from the now-sadly-many-months-obsolete "Liberals Against Terrorism", and update it so that we can all share AF, as we should?

Um....lacking an open thread: WTF? And WTF?

Welcome, Publius.

Do not feed the kitten after midnight: it turns into a gremlin.

Slarti,

On your second WTF, anger at the Carter book is an issue I have seen brewing, both in the general circulation newspaper and especially in the weekly local Jewish newspaper. Not having read the book, I am unable to take a position between the persons who say Carter is saying Israel's treatment of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories is the equivalent of apartheid, and the rebuttal from Carter indicating that is not what the book says.

I am also curious what percentage of the Jewish employees of the Carter Center the 14 resignees make up, but that is not something I have seen anywhere.

Well, their names all look Jewish.

Kidding.

Slarti, on your first WTF, I am gobsmacked* that Republicans are asserting it's hypocritical for Pelosi to be the Congressional Representative for San Francisco. Or whatever it is that Pelosi's supposed to be being hypocritical about.

*Actually, I'm ungobsmacked, because this kind of reach looks like business as usual for Republicans, not something astonishing to go WTF** over.

**If archy were typing in the present day, would he go wtf wtf instead of wotthehell wotthehell?

Dantheman, on Slarti's second WTF, Carter is so far from being the first*** to point out that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories parallels South African apartheid, that it would be better to say Carter was jumping on the bandwagon. But I haven't read Carter's book either.

***As Desmond Tutu spoke at a conference on Ending the Occupation held in Boston, Massachusetts five years ago:

I've been very deeply distressed in my visit to the Holy Land; it reminded me so much of what happened to us black people in South Africa. I have seen the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers prevented us from moving about.

Well, their names all look Jewish

yeah, i was just writing going something about that.... so i will.

the piece doesn't tell you explicitly that the people who quit are Jewish. but i don't recall many lists of 14 names in little minor-interest stories like this, so that kinda stands out. it's like nudge-nudge, just look at their names, nudge-nudge !

strange.

just to warn you, i've brought some rogues with me over here

Nice new digs, Mr. Publius... wouldn't want anything to... happen to them... things break, you know... happens everyday... sometimes the even spontaneously burst into flames. Sometimes people too. Scientific fact. Imagine that, one day your relaxing in your new digs and then poof! you're burnt to a crisp. Wouldn't want that to happen, now do we, Mr. Publius?

all the talk about that other Latinate blogger today has left me with a bitter feeling towards Roman names

I was born with a latinate name, buster, so I wouldn't throw any talk like that around, I might just have get Roman on your ass... uh... that didn't sound right. I think I might just go slink off somewhere in shame and embarrassment.

Huh, huh, huh... I said barrass.

Okay, enough foolin', don't want to embarrass (huh huh) Publius on his first day at the new place. I'll try to be good from now on.

Jes,

Actually reading what I said would be useful. Especially the line which said "the rebuttal from Carter indicating that is not what the book says."

But of course, I have found that this is too much to expect from you on the subject of Israel, so I will pass on further discussion of this topic with you.

Actually, I'm ungobsmacked, because this kind of reach looks like business as usual for Republicans, not something astonishing to go WTF

Which is why I'm going WTF: because this is exactly the sort of thing you'd expect from the Culture of Corruption. I do hold out some hopes that this will be self-correcting, though, which is in itself a step up.

Dan: But of course, I have found that this is too much to expect from you on the subject of Israel

I cited a relevant speech by Desmond Tutu, Dan. You don't like it, don't read it.

Slarti: Which is why I'm going WTF: because this is exactly the sort of thing you'd expect from the Culture of Corruption.

Making wild accusations at Democratic politicians based on no facts? Well, yes. Hasn't been self-correcting so far, but...

Slarti: Which is why I'm going WTF: because this is exactly the sort of thing you'd expect from the Culture of Corruption.

Making wild accusations at Democratic politicians based on no facts? Well, yes. Hasn't been self-correcting so far, but...

Actually reading what I said would be useful

Still not taking, Dan.

What Jay C said. Cough. Updates to anachronistic blogroll URLs. Cough.

Still not taking, Dan.

Still going for the Intentional Obscurity Prize, Slarti? Wasn't winning it four years in a row enough for you?

Hello from the audience. Helloooooo....

OT[?!]: Bizarro World has a brand new graphic...which, if not for the blood, might have been okay.

FWIW, this publius comes equipped with the American Footprints seal of bloggy approval.

Excellent. So this particular publius will be reliable? We wouldn't want ObWi to get some cheap imported publius, only to discover that it runs poorly and cease to function altogether the moment the warranty expires.

"I cited a relevant speech by Desmond Tutu, Dan."

On the subject of whether Carter believes his book equates Israel's treatment of the Palestinians to apratheid? Not really.

No worries radish, this publius makes the folks at JD Power and associates swoon.

as a charter member of the ObWi Bar Association, California Branch & VP -- Long-Winded Legal Explanations, I extend my welcome.

Hi. And hello to thhe new commenters. too.

I was born with a latinate name, buster, so I wouldn't throw any talk like that around, I might just have get Roman on your ass.

no need to worry. i'm all better today.

let's hear it for the Romans!

i bet they knew how to pacify a restless citizenry.

Decimation, occasionally. And a fanatical devotion to the Caesar.

Now, how much do you hate the Romans?

A lot.

Alright you're in.

"Decimation, occasionally"

As far as I recall, that was for soldiers that had shown cowardice, not "a restless citizenry".

Today's soldiers just get scolded for laziness at NRO.


I think Carter's book's title is simply meant as a provocation. That he tacitly contradicts Clinton's account of the 2000 peace talks and appropriates Ross's maps while changing the titles is unfortunate.

Wilcommen, bienvenue, welcome!

Decimation, occasionally. And a fanatical devotion to the Caesar.

On which note, actually, the HBO series "Rome" begins its new season this Sunday, I believe. I'm still unconvinced by a lot of the early-middle episodes in the first season -- the dramatic conceits they're using often grate clunkily, if that makes sense -- but the ending is solid and at points genuinely great. Plus, much nekkidness so you know it's family fun for all!

On the subject of whether Carter believes his book equates Israel's treatment of the Palestinians to apratheid?

Very relevant, on the subject of whether it's appropriate to compare Israel's treatment of the Palestinians to South African apartheid.

See, that's the trouble with Slarti's obscure blogging technique: it's difficult to figure out who's on topic and who's threadjacking.

I, uh... have a Roman nose?

Welcome!

I, uh... have a Roman nose?

oh great... now i'll have Big Mouth Strikes Again stuck in my head all day.

just to warn you, i've brought some rogues with me over here

Nonsense, some of us were here all along.

as the flames rose...

Speaking of the Moz ...

Wow...Eric Martin

You know what? I scrolled a little and didn't find an example, so:

congratulations, hilzoy. An inspired and educated choice, as obviously was the choice of Andrew, who I hope continues to at least visit. Publius is exactly the kind of voice that had made Obsidian Wings inexplicably endure as one of the best blogs.

I've disliked Morrissey since...well, there's only a few songs that the Smiths did that were tolerable; everything else is annoying, self-indulgent crap.

White Strong Arms Gitmo Lawyers ...Majikthise

A little personal interest in this story...

"See, that's the trouble with Slarti's obscure blogging technique: it's difficult to figure out who's on topic and who's threadjacking."

As a general rule, the person who is not sure is the person doing the threadjacking. The general rule is certainly true here.

"So how 'bout that surge?"

JFTR, check out Anthony Cordesman's brutal fisking of it at the NYT online. Rough.

I haven't seen any hint of Carter backing down on the use of the word "apartheid"--he apparently has a chapter in the book detailing why he thinks it's appropriate. It is a common comparison--B'Tselem, the Israeli human rights organization, uses it. What Carter denies is that he is an antisemite.

I haven't read the book either. I have read Charles Enderlin's book "Shattered Dreams" and all sides seem at fault in his account. They came close to an agreement at Taba, in January 2001, but the Israelis pulled out because of the upcoming election. For his part, Arafat didn't try to take what he could at that point because he thought Bush Jr would be more friendly to Arabs (as Bush Sr. had been) and he thought he could get a better deal with Bush in place, and also because he didn't believe Sharon would win the election.

As for what Ross says, it looks a little different in the Enderlin book. On page 351 there's a summary of the Taba talks as typed by Miguel Moratinos and one of the remaining disagreements was that the Israelis interpreted the Clinton proposals as allowing for the annexation of settlement blocs including 80 percent of the settlers, with them keeping 6 percent of the West Bank, whereas the Palestinians were only willing to give up 3.1 percent and wanted a land swap as compensation.

One thing Ross doesn't mention is that Clinton blamed Arafat for the failure of the talks at Camp David in the summer of 2000, yet Shlomo Ben Ami (who agrees with Ross's position regarding what happened in December) says that Arafat was justified in rejecting the supposedly generous Camp David offer. Shlomo Ben Ami was part of the peace talks and became Israel's foreign minister in August 2000, so if he says Israel's offer was inadequate, it should carry some weight.

Shlomo Ben Ami's views on both the overall nature of the conflict and what happened in December 2000 are at--

http://www.democracynow.org/finkelstein-benami.shtml

(And yeah, I gotta dig up the scrap of paper in my office about how to make a weblink.)

And yeah, that probably belongs in a different thread. But people shouldn't bring up the I/P issue if they don't want a threadjack. I'll leave now.

Donald,

"I haven't seen any hint of Carter backing down on the use of the word "apartheid"--he apparently has a chapter in the book detailing why he thinks it's appropriate."

My understanding (from newspaper articles only) is that he makes the comparison and gives reasons both why it is and is not accurate. The fact that he made the comparison at all is making some in the Jewish community outraged, while others think there is some justification for it, but that the differences are more important than the similarities, and still others entirely agree with it. That's why I said I would like to see the percentage of Jews within the organization who resigned.

"It is a common comparison--B'Tselem, the Israeli human rights organization, uses it."

No argument as to the frequency of the comparison being made. No interest in a discussion here as to its correctness.

Dantheman: As a general rule, the person who is not sure is the person doing the threadjacking.

Fine: have it your way. I threadjacked Slarti's threadjack. Can we have an Open Thread now? (Hey, Publius: it's an old Obsidian Wings tradition that a new denizen of the Hive Mind buys all the regulars a drink when they open their first Open Thread.)

Is it possible to become a regular, like, today, um, or right now? I just love free drinks.

welcome, new commenters!

Welcome, publius!

jrudkis: there were no iraqis fighting with us. Now there are, and that number grows and is more effective every month.

Yes, more effective every month, in shrinking the Sunni neighborhoods and expanding the Shiite ones. Inspiring.

"Something tells me I'm forever going to be the poster with the least education here. :)"

Tell it to the guy with less than half a year of college.

I'd welcome publius, but, really, the true welcome won't come until I'm making points about grammar and punctuation.

"Something tells me I'm forever going to be the poster with the least education here ;)"

Don't worry, Andrew, when you return from Iraq, you'll be vastly overqualified.

Welcome, Publius.

You too, Gary. ;)

OMG! WTH! Clear the decks! Stop the presses! The Obsidian Wings blogroll has finally been updated!

Happy Happy! Joy Joy!

And thanks to hilzoy, or the kitten, or whoever's efforts have made this hithertofore unimaginable thing posssible!

Huzzah!

Oh and Nell im the 13 year old girl that pays attention in class your never the one with the least education. I have a Question to the longtime bloggers How come in my class they never talk about the truth in the crusades all though they dwell on the holocaust many jewish people were harmed in the crusades but it doesnt seemed mentioned.

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