by hilzoy
Via TPM, I note that Sweden has been the subject of a very minor blog argument, in which Tim Worstall notes that Swedish poor people make about as much money as American poor people, and concludes that:
"All those punitive tax rates, all that redistribution, that blessed egalitarianism, the flatter distribution of income, leads to a change in the living standards of the poor of precisely ... nothing."
He is then corrected by Max Sawicky and Matt Yglesias, who point out that the poor in Sweden may not have higher income than the poor in the US, but they do have such trifles as free health care, child care, university education, pensions, and all sorts of other little things that make the lives of the poor (along with everyone else) a lot better. Whether they improve it enough to make it worth the higher taxes is a legitimate debate; that they 'change the living standards of the poor', however, is not.
While I was reading these posts, I was also struck by this bit from Worstall's article, about the Economic Policy Institute (source of the income statistics):
"They are, as you may know, the people who urge that the USA become more like the European countries, most especially the Scandinavian ones. Less income inequality, more leisure time, stronger unions and so on. All good stuff from a particular type of liberal and progressive mindset -- i.e. that society must be managed to produce the outcome that technocrats believe society really desires, rather than an outcome the actual members of society prove they desire by building it."
Personally, I would have thought that the EPI, which publishes studies designed to persuade people, rather than trying to launch a technocratic takeover of the USA, is committed to thinking that society should be set up in accordance with the desires of its members. Certainly their alleged model society, Sweden, is not "managed to produce the outcome that technocrats believe society really desires, rather than an outcome the actual members of society prove they desire by building it." Actual Swedes -- solid majorities of them -- voted to bring the people who enacted its policies to power. They built their society in the only way such a society could be built: by voting for its policies, repeatedly. And I haven't seen any evidence at all that they secretly desire something else.
In fact, one of the striking things about Sweden, to any American, is how very far to what we think of as the left its political discourse is. The basics of the social welfare state are absolutely taken for granted. Proposing the abolition of state funding for health care or education would be political suicide. (One of my Swedish relatives who is very informed on such matters informs me that proposing tax cuts would be political suicide, since everyone assumes that that would require serious cuts in social programs, rather than a large increase in the national debt. They don't seem to have Republican-style mythical financing here.)
The debate between the left and right seems to be much less about what programs the government should pay for than about the best ways of implementing those programs. People think about questions like: should the government run all hospitals, or should private hospitals compete with public ones while receiving full public reimbursement for medical care? This is a debate that takes place, in the US, on the left: most liberals support some sort of national health insurance, but we divide about which particular version is best.
I don't really know enough to say, but I suspect that I might be on the right in Sweden. The right seems to support a lot of policies that involve allowing competition between public and private players as part of social programs. I believe that the right introduced Sweden's voucher program, for instance. But Swedish vouchers are not much like the vouchers proposed in the US: schools that receive vouchers cannot ask for, or receive, any tuition above and beyond the voucher payment itself, so vouchers cannot be used for private schools that charge high tuition. They can accept people only on a first-come, first-served basis. They bargain with teachers' unions, and are subject to extensive quality control measures. And they make up only a tiny fraction of Swedish schools. Nonetheless, they have improved performance in both the public and private schools, and seem like a very good thing.
The point is just that these are the kinds of political debates that we liberals fantasize about. Assume that not having fully subsidized health care for all is just not on the table; debate the best method of delivering it. Assume that child care is available for everyone; debate what kind of child care it would be. Nothing that even remotely resembles American conservatism seem to exist here. Which is why Worstall's crack bothered me: as best I can tell, while most people would tinker with the odd detail, in its broad outlines Swedes seem to have exactly the society they want. They certainly seem very perplexed as to why anyone would want ours instead.
***
I don't have time to post on it separately, but I did want to draw attention to this post by Glenn Greenwald:
"This article from the San Francisco Chronicle details the truly amazing story of two U.S. citizens -- a 45-year old resident of the San Francisco area and his 18-year old son -- who, after travelling to Pakistan, have been barred by the Bush administration from re-entering the country. They have not been charged with any crime, and no court has ordered or even authorized this denial of entry. The administration is just unilaterally prohibiting these two Americans from re-entering their country.
A relative of the two men (the older man's nephew) was convicted in April by a California federal jury on charges of supporting terrorism as a result of his attending a Pakistani training camp (and just incidentally, the conviction was obtained under some controversial circumstances). And the Federal Government is now demanding that his two relatives submit to FBI interrogation in Pakistan as a condition for being allowed to return home to the U.S.
According to the article, the two Americans have already submitted to an FBI interview, but one of them -- the American-born 18-year-old -- "had run afoul of the FBI when he declined to be interviewed again without a lawyer and refused to take a lie-detector test." For those actions -- i.e., invoking his constitutional rights to counsel and against self-incrimination -- he is being refused entry back into his country. And the Bush administration is now conditioning his re-entry on his relinquishing the most basic constitutional protections guaranteed to him by the Bill of Rights."
Chalk up another extralegal power claimed by the Bush administration: banishment without any court proceedings or judicial authorization. These people just boggle the mind.
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