Porter Goss Resigns

by hilzoy

So there I was, on the highway in my little Prius, which is getting 55 mpg now that it's getting to be summer, when all of a sudden I hear that Porter Goss has resigned. The reporter on NPR can't imagine why; certainly, the clips they play from Bush's announcement don't sound as though Bush had edged him out the way he did, say, Colin Powell. The NPR reporter speculates that perhaps, since Bush mentioned how much time Goss has spent in the Oval Office, Goss might think he hasn't had enough face time with the President. He is clearly baffled. I, on the other hand, can think of several possible reasons, thanks to the voracious newspaper and blog reading that comes with being a blogger. (h/t to TPM Muckraker and Laura Rozen for most of what follows.)

There is, of course, this post on Duke Cunningham and his hookers, which mentioned the possible involvement of "current and former lawmakers on Defense and Intelligence comittees—including one person who now holds a powerful intelligence post." There's his role in the sudden rise of Kyle 'Dusty' Foggo:

"What do we know about Kyle "Dusty" Foggo, the highest-ranking CIA official to admit he attended poker parties thrown by crooked contractor Brent Wilkes? (...)

In November 2004, newly-installed CIA chief Porter Goss reached down into the ranks of long-serving middle managers at the CIA to make Foggo the Executive Director of the agency. Thus the lifelong friend of Cunningham briber Wilkes found himself in charge of running day-to-day operations for the $5 billion spy outfit."

From Laura Rozen:

"What a source mentioned to me was that among spooks, Wilkes and Wade were known as "lobbyists," who sponsored poker parties at hotel suites involving their buddies and congressmen sometimes entertained by prostitutes. The point: to cultivate and bond with those who could throw business their way. I'm told these poker parties may have indirectly helped put Dusty Foggo on Porter Goss's radar, when the CIA was looking to fill the executive director spot, and Goss's first choice became problematic."

Foggo's troubles extend beyond poker parties and prostitutes. For one thing, the CIA's Inspector General has opened an investigation of him. For another:

"Federal investigators in San Diego have made it clear that while just-resigned Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham pled guilty last week to taking bribes from defense contractors, their public corruption probe will not stop at Cunningham. Numerous current and retired CIA officials say they will not be surprised if the investigation touches the CIA in general, and its third-ranking official in particular. (...)

According to past and present CIA officials interviewed over the past month, CIA executive director Kyle "Dusty" Foggo--whose career duties have encompassed letting CIA contracts--has had a long, close personal relationship with two contractors identified (though not explicitly named) in court papers as bribing Cunningham: Brent Wilkes of the Wilkes Corp., whose subsidiaries include defense contractor ADCS; and former ADCS consultant Mitchell Wade, until recently president of defense contractor MZM, Inc. It is a relationship, the CIA officials say (with some putting a particular emphasis on Wilkes), that has increasingly been of concern. (...)

Another recently-retired senior agency official, while not naming Wilkes or Wade by name, also noted concerns borne out of both personal experience with and reports from colleagues about Foggo. "If you were a case officer and worked with him, you'd be saying to yourself, 'I've got to watch this guy,'" says the former official. "There is one contractor with whom he enjoys a very, very, very close relationship.""

Or, as Josh Marshall put it:

"So, Foggo's line of work was contracting, procurement, buying stuff for the Agency. Wilkes' line of work was coming up with shoddy products and then corrupting members of Congress and procurement officials to buy his crap.

Hard to imagine why they might want to scrutinize his lifelong personal and professional ties to Brent Wilkes, right?"

Here's what Laura Rozen's sources are saying:

"I hear that when Porter Goss went to meet with Negroponte today, he didn't know he was going to be leaving the job. And that it would have been the President's decision, not Negroponte's. And that this may have to do with how Goss handled a management issue concerning Foggo. And perhaps with a tie in to HIPSI. And I hear that Fran Townsend has already been approached about taking Goss's job -- and turned it down. And I hear that agency folks are worried this is the end of the Agency as they know it -- Pentagon role over intelligence will only increase. "I think there's another shoe to drop," said one source."

(As we kewl kidz all know, HIPSI is the House Permanent Select Intelligence committee.)

And that's just the scandals. Another President might have had the good sense to fire Goss for his actual record at CIA:

"Since Goss took over, between 30 and 90 senior CIA officials have made their exit, according to various sources, some fleeing into retirement, others taking refuge as consultants. Others, unable to retire, have stayed, but only to mark time at the agency. Morale, already low after several years during which the CIA was accused of a series of intelligence failures related to September 11 and Iraq’s nonexistent weapons of mass destruction, is now at rock-bottom. The agency’s vaunted Near East Division, in particular, which served as the “pointy end of the spear,” as one CIA veteran put it, in simultaneous wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, and the “global war on terror,” has been decimated. (...)

Within weeks of Goss’ arrival, it was clear that the agency had been plunged into turmoil. One after another, top CIA officials bolted: first McLaughlin; then Stephen Kappes and Michael Sulick, the top two officials in the Directorate of Operations; Jami Miscik, who headed the Directorate of Intelligence, and her deputy, Scott White; Buzzy Krongard, the CIA’s executive director; Mary Margaret Graham, a senior counterterrorism official; the heads of the European and East Asia divisions; and many more. Pillar, the Middle East national intelligence officer, took retirement. Many others, less prominent, also quit, were fired, or took jobs as consultants. Rockefeller, watching from the sidelines, said Goss “faces rumors of a partisan purge at the CIA.”

Leading the purge were Murray, who followed Goss to Langley, and perhaps half a dozen other HPSCI staffers who joined them, including Merrell Moorhead and Jay Jakub. Nearly all of them had poor reputations at the HPSCI. California Democratic Representative Jane Harman, hardly a critic of the CIA, said Goss has assembled a “highly partisan, inexperienced staff,” noting that “[f]rankly, on both sides of the aisle in the committee, we were happy to see them go.” And the CIA, where they were referred to as the “Hitler youth,” was not exactly happy to see them arrive. (...)

No section was harder hit than the already rattled Near East Division. At least two consecutive Baghdad chiefs of station have quit or been fired, and division’s staff at headquarters has been nearly swept clean of its experienced officials. “All over the agency, the talk is about the steady stream of people leaving,” says one veteran CIA officer. “People are disillusioned, and there seems to be no relief from the sense that there is no fixing this.” In the Near East Division, especially in the section that focuses on Iraq, many are gone. “What you’ve got left is a bunch of kids,” this officer said. “You’ve got a bunch of newbies in there -- some very smart, but with no experience.” Another former CIA chief of station said: “There aren’t any Arabists left in the CIA. They’re gone. They weren’t with the program. It’s like Pol Pot, who killed anybody wearing glasses because they might be able to read.”

Most troubling to agency watchers -- including Harman, who says that the CIA’s “free fall” is a “very, very bad omen in the middle of a war” -- is that the people exiting the CIA are those with decades of experience. “The intelligence process is based on experience,” says one grizzled CIA veteran. “It’s the 10,000 at-bat syndrome. It’s more an art than a science, and it is very difficult to teach. We’re talking about an agency that has no bench. When you take out the A-team, there’s no one.”"

Why anyone would have trouble thinking of an explanation for Goss' resignation is a mystery. The trouble isn't coming up with one; it's figuring out which of the many that leap to mind it might be.

UPDATE: Josh Marshall has a very good post summarizing the Wilkes/Foggo/Goss backstory here.

Comments

[Ugh]

Also from TPMMuck:

Goss was told to fire Kyle "Dusty" Foggo, his troublesome Executive Director, and Goss refused. That's what we're hearing now from knowledgeable sources.

Goss: not the Decider.

[cleek]

it's all good. the more people fired or pushed-out of this administration, the fewer will be able to come back in a future Republican administration, the way Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al, have done.

[cleek]

just as a side note, Wiki for May 5th has already updated to include this historic event. :)

[Dantheman]

"the more people fired or pushed-out of this administration, the fewer will be able to come back in a future Republican administration, the way Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al, have done."

Why? It didn't stop the current president from appointing Elliott Abrams or John Poindexter, in spite of being pushed out due to Iran-Contra, did it?

[Ugh]

Note that this (should) trump the drunk-Kennedy story, which one would think the White House would like to run for days. Curiouser and curiouser.

[spartikus]

Why? It didn't stop the current president from appointing Elliott Abrams or John Poindexter, in spite of being pushed out due to Iran-Contra, did it?

That's right. It has to be a wooden stake, and it has to be through the heart.

[john miller]

Do we need to see if Buffy is a Democrat?

[Ugh]

Of course, CNN, ABC, MSNBC and Fox all have Kennedy #1 or at least above Goss right now. Shows what I know.

[cleek]

Why? It didn't stop the current president from appointing Elliott Abrams or John Poindexter, in spite of being pushed out due to Iran-Contra, did it?

they were simply caught breaking the law, they weren't fired for displeasing their boss.

[gwangung]

What's so discouraging is that the drain of knowledgeable people under the Bush administration has been KNOWN, sometimes for years. Yet nothing's been done about it.

You see case studies like this all the time in business, indiscriminate chopping that annhilates all the accumulated expertise in search of "problem" areas. And given the past corporate history of this President, this was highly predictable...

[cleek]

Of course, CNN, ABC, MSNBC and Fox all have Kennedy #1 or at least above Goss right now. Shows what I know.

someone truly cynical might think that this Kennedy story gives Goss exactly the kind of cover he would need, to get out town ASAP. nobody's talking about those job numbers, either. good job Pat.

[togolosh]

There aren’t any Arabists left in the CIA.

OK, this needs to be *way* over the top hyperbole: if it's even close to true Goss and everybody above him in the chain of command needs to be locked up for good, preferrably in some third world craphole prison.

[spartikus]

More sauce for the goose?

[Steve]

I don't get why anyone would think Goss should be fired for purging all the capable people at the CIA. Why, exactly, do you think he got the job in the first place?

[Ugh]

someone truly cynical might think that this Kennedy story gives Goss exactly the kind of cover he would need, to get out town ASAP.

And here I thought the fact that the Goss resignation came after the Kennedy incident would mean Goss would get top billing. Of course, Kennedy held his press conference at 3pm, an hour and fifteen minutes after the Goss announcement. Did Kennedy announce his presser before the Goss announcement?

[cleek]

And here I thought the fact that the Goss resignation came after the Kennedy incident would mean Goss would get top billing.

damn that liberal press!

[Jackmormon]

Togolosh, I think that "Arabist" probably refers to a certain kind of Arab-speaking analyst. I've seen it thrown around as invective to describe Arab-speaking analysts who've spent long enough in-region studying the culture, etc., to be vulnerable of accusations of having "gone native." There are probably still any number of ideologically pure or just inexperienced Arab-speaking analysts.

I hope it's still hyperbolic, although I fear it isn't.

[Francis]

Redstate ducks the story.

[KCinDC]

Francis, they've got a thread going. See, it's really good news because Goss will be able to run for the Senate now. Great way to launch a campaign, I must say.

That reminds me of Bill Kristol's new theme that if the Democrats retake the House it'll be great for the Republicans. Why, they probably aren't even trying to win at this point.

[cleek]

consensus on the right seems to be "routine personnel shakeup".

doesn't seem like that.

[Ugh]

damn that liberal press!

Indeed.

[Pooh]

That reminds me of Bill Kristol's new theme that if the Democrats retake the House it'll be great for the Republicans. Why, they probably aren't even trying to win at this point.

Funnily enough, TNR (Sorry, $) seems to agree. (A contrarian take from TNR? Surely not!)

[Anderson]

That's right. It has to be a wooden stake, and it has to be through the heart.

LOL, Spartikus!

[Gary Farber]

"It has to be a wooden stake, and it has to be through the heart."

That only works for vampires; not demons. Or robots. Or certain other menaces.

"Togolosh, I think that 'Arabist' probably refers to a certain kind of Arab-speaking analyst.'

Traditionally, it refers to a Western expert in Arabic culture. Similarly, in intelligence contexts wherever I've seen it used, it refers to the same, someone steeped in Arabic culture as an expert. (And likely with a lot of contacts, as well as travel experience.)

"There are probably still any number of [...] just inexperienced Arab-speaking analysts" would fit with a declaration that most A-team [not in the Green Beret, or tv show, senses] people have been swept out, leaving relatively newly hired folks to step up.

Which makes perfect sense, given the last couple of decades of CIA history and evolution. It's never been as large an organization on the covert side as is commonly imagined, and the old hands have a tendency to be thin on the ground and easily purged for a wide variety of reasons (for one thing, being effective at the sort of things covert operations tend to entail, and not stepping on people's toes, including those of one's bosses, don't tend to be personality traits that go together well, as a rule; for another, there's a general tendency for periodic purges in the CIA, whether because of new bosses wanting "their sort" of folks brought up or in, or for ideological reasons, or other reasons.)

And, of course, there's been endless amount written about Goss's purges and alienation of long-standing hands all around, both in Analysis and Operations.

[KCinDC]

That only works for vampires; not demons. Or robots. Or certain other menaces.

It especially doesn't work on a creature that has no heart.

[KCinDC]

A new right-wing idea (which at least departs from Bush worship): Goss isn't running for the Senate after all. Apparently he's resigning on principle because Bush won't string up Mary McCarthy and the other traitors who let the American people find out their government was torturing people in secret prisons.

[Gary Farber]

John Dickerson has a bunch of early versions.

It was held in the late Friday afternoon slot reserved for unpleasant news—known in the trade as "taking out the trash"—and the two men had the perfunctory air of a two Little Leaguers shaking hands after a game. Goss didn't say why he was leaving and his successor wasn't named. The president didn't say he was sorry to see him go. When Goss' predecessor, George Tenet, departed, Bush made it clear it was hard to accept his goodbye. Flying to Rome on Air Force One the same day, Condi Rice came back to the press cabin to say of Tenet's resignation, "It's really a great loss." No one seems to feel that way about Goss.

Or, was it as it seems: He went on his own, but with the president's hand pushing gently at the base of his back? An administration aide explained on background that Goss had upset too many people at the agency with his reform efforts and felt neutered by John Negroponte, the director of national intelligence who had been systematically draining his power. One senior official told the AP Bush and Negroponte had been discussing removing Goss for weeks. As if to codify that power shift and his ax-wielding role, Negroponte stood in the Oval Office for Goss' departure remarks, but outside the camera frame.

He included a bunch of links there, plus there's a bunch more, so click to get the more.

[Anarch]

That reminds me of Bill Kristol's new theme that if the Democrats retake the House it'll be great for the Republicans.

I was bitterly amused by Jon Stewart's prescience when Kristol admitted the reason on The Colbert Report: he wants the Democrats to win back Congress because they'll be the ones who have to raise taxes.

Yes, that's right. Party ahead of country. Your modern GOP.

[Gary Farber]

I meant to include a "[...]" between those two paragraphs, since I elided a bunch, but it fell out. Sorry.

[CaseyL]

I don't believe Goss' departure was expected for the simple reason that they haven't yet named a replacement and, according to NPR, haven't come up with a list of possible replacements, either.

If Goss left because of a disagreement with Negroponte, the Bushies would have been ready. They weren't ready.

[bob mcmanus]

"Another President might have had the good sense to fire Goss for his actual record at CIA:"

Feature, not bug. The purge is what Goss was hired to do. I don't know why Goss was fired (Hookergate quite likely), but the WH may have decided that the culture of integrity, competence, and objectivity was simply too ingrained in the CIA, and the entire agency must be destroyed. Goss was perhaps unwilling to go that far.

All the Arabists gone? I am totally unable to believe that Bush/Cheney/neocons simply intend to coast out their remaining term and abort the ME project before it achieves viability, or leave it to a successor.

All the Arabists gone? They are going to blow up the ME.

[Gary Farber]

"If Goss left because of a disagreement with Negroponte, the Bushies would have been ready. They weren't ready."

That doesn't follow at all. If he suddenly decided to leave this week, after the latest move to shift out CIA people to NCTC as the last straw in his losing authority to Negroponte, and after Hayden's speech last week, they wouldn't have had warning. They're not telepaths.

[Gary Farber]

I'm a lot more inclined to suspect Goss quitting out of pique, than Hookergate, myself, simply on the grounds that an awful lot of people want to believe it's Hookergate, and yet there's no evidence of that other than timing.

Mind, I'm not saying that Hookergate isn't the cause. Maybe it is.

But correlation isn't demonstrably causation, and the fact that people simply love to prefer to believe things happen because of scandal, and because of conspiracy, doesn't persuade me that that's why, although it might be.

Goss going because of scandal would tar Bush, and so naturally plenty of us would like to believe that that's what's going on. But I'm always suspicious of conclusions based on wishful thinking. Even thought they sometimes turn out to be true.

On the other hand, I believe that the Administration cares far more deeply about domestic politics and loyalty to them then they care about competence and experience and results, so I see no reason to draw any conclusions about their intended foreign policy when they act on the basis of purging or alienating those they consider disloyal to President Bush and Veep Cheney.

Besides, everyone knows that those who are loyal to Bush/Cheney will be the most competent and effective hires: such people won't let partisan considerations and Wrong Conclusions get in the way of their making proper conclusions, in this, the best of all possible worlds, under the guidance of our wonderful leaders!

I could, of course, be wrong about any of this. It's been known to happen.

[Gary Farber]

See also here.

And this tips Hayden to succeed, as do several stories now, although it's still highly early yet, I'd note.

Time and Mike Allen and Timothy Burger seem pretty convinced it's Hayden, though. And it's a completely plausible choice, certainly. Obvious, really.

[Tim]

Does anyone think this might be clearing the decks for an Iran attack in the near future? Possibly Goss is not enough of a neocon to go down with the ship.

[bob mcmanus]

Just a note from Lisbon

I love bugging GF with enigmatic links. Steve Clemons on Tony Blair and Jack Straw:

"Straw has adamently opposed a strike against Iran, under current conditions, and has stated forcefully that it would be an "illegal act." Blair seems to want to keep his Iran attack options open." ...Clemons

From the Clemons thread, on Goss:"Likely it had to do with the revolt within the CIA itself...and also installing someone even more suitable to the neo's aims. I would guess there is a question from Goss to himself...and from the adm...about how far even partisan Goss would go to manufacture the same intell for Iran as Iraq." ..."Carroll"

I just got a feeling. Attacking Iran is the so close to invading Poland I can barely see any difference. The world will explode, and we will not recognize what emerges. But they will do it anyway. This is big, the difference between attacking Iraq and attacking Iran is the difference between Grenada and Vietnam. Y'all ain't gonna like it, but Iraq is small potatoes, and that is why they haven't taken it seriously. We may be about to have a real war.

And yes, I read Arkin, and Clemons, etc. There may be questions of timing, but I also read those guys as scared silly.

[bob mcmanus]

From Gary's link about Hayden:

"But the new law has a new head of the intelligence community. That's the Director of National Intelligence. The custom and the culture of the intelligence community is catching up with that fact. The President will choose somebody who will continue to close the gap between the law and reality."

Yeah, like FEMA getting absorbed into DHS making it better. Hayden, staunch defender of domestic surveillance, military, close ties to Cheney. Plame and her friends didn't know who they were messing with. This WH and their flunkies in Congress will destroy the CIA and ruin our intelligence capability and get people killed...for whatever reasons and purposes. Neocon ambitions? Petty revenge? Who cares? The nation may not survive three more years.

[Gary Farber]

"Does anyone think this might be clearing the decks for an Iran attack in the near future? Possibly Goss is not enough of a neocon to go down with the ship."

Maybe, but he's never been anything but a toady and climber, so there aren't any visible signs that I'm aware of that he wouldn't willingly go along with Whatever. But it's conceivable.

[hilzoy]

Mark Shields said something interesting on the NewsHour: that this was the first good news day for the Bush administration in ages, what with Patrick Kennedy etc., and he didn't believe they would have announced Goss' resignation, and risk overshadowing the Kennedy story, if they had had any choice.

[KCinDC]

But if he's such a reliable toady, Gary, and the departure is unrelated to scandal, why would he be forced out (or why would he have left of his own accord, if the "forced out" story is just a cover)? An extreme willingness to go along with whatever is the main qualification for being in this administration. As you've said, competence isn't a consideration for them, except possibly if it reaches the point of becoming a political liability, which it hasn't in Goss's case. So there must have been some way in which he wasn't fitting in with their plans.

For hooker fans: Foggo is on his way out as well, but presumably Goss's cronies would be out when he left regardless of scandaliciousness.

[Gary Farber]

"But if he's such a reliable toady, Gary, and the departure is unrelated to scandal, why would he be forced out (or why would he have left of his own accord, if the "forced out" story is just a cover)?"

Well, first of all, he's undeniably a toady, and a guy who has always lusted after being DCI. I could give a lot of links and history, but I'm actually somewhat busy with other stuff, so please forgive me that I don't just now, and either take my word for it, or not.

And he's certainly been a solid Republican and Bush follower. Now, within the bounds of that, whether he might have policy differences with the Admin, I couldn't say. But there are no signs of policy disagreements that I've been aware of, but there have been endless clear examples of bureaucratic feuding and somewhat understandable objections, given his personal ambition, over seeing the DCI position destroyed -- Director of Central Intelligence meant, until the reoganization of last year, ostensibly being head of the entire intelligence community, and all the agencies, although as such it's always been a bit toothless, since the position had no budgetary control over the other agencies, and not-so-much direct ability to command them, but still, the prestige was there, and vastly more power than not having the title.

That was destroyed when the DNI, Director of National Intelligence position was created, and given to Negroponte. Goss wanted that position, and was reportedly very bitter not to get it. Understandably so, since that's where all the power now lies.

Since then, he's lost hundreds of personnel to Negroponte, and vast amounts of other authority in multiple areas, including over counter-terrorism, and the CIA's CTC (Counter-Terrorism Center) to the NCTC (as I previously mentioned), and also to Rumsfeld's Defense Department (which still controls the vast majority of the intelligence budget through its multitude of intel agencies, including DIA, NSA, Army Intel, Navy Intel, Geo-Spatial Agency, National Mapping, satellite control, and on and on) and the new position of Defense Under-Secretary of Intelligence (Stephen Cambone), as well as to Negroponte.

Basically, his once prestigious position at the pinnacle of U.S. Intelligence has been reduced to an absolute shell and fraction of what it once was. And he was humiliated to not get the top job.

I don't know about you, but I've been in a number of companies where the formerly top person was superseded by someone brought in to be their superior, and they ended up quitting some months later.

There's nothing even remotely unusual about that dynamic.

Now, it's perfectly plausible that there are other factors at play here. And one is likely the way Goss has alienated pretty much everyone under him at CIA, as well, and everyone knows it.

And he's driven Negroponte crazy, by all accounts and indications.

When you are hated by your superior, the people who work for you, and the people side-ways from you on the organization chart that you're supposed to work with (particularly since the whole point of the intel re-org is theoretically to get everyone working together more smoothly and in more integrated fashion), is it really surprising if either you wind up wanting to quit, and your ultimate boss (who he also had to surrender giving the prestigious and daily personal briefing/face-time of/with the President to, to Negroponte, by the way) winds up wanting you to quit?

Now there certainly may be other reasons involved. Maybe it's scandal about to erupt. Maybe it's any number of possibilities. Maybe there have been big intel failures we don't know about.

But the above, alone, is certainly sufficient to explain it, even though "bureaucratic infighting" is a terribly boring reason, and most un-satisfactory in a politically useful sense.

So I don't know the reasons. But I hope that answers your question as to one strong possibility, or consideration, or likely, at least, factor.

[Gary Farber]

"For hooker fans: Foggo is on his way out as well, but presumably Goss's cronies would be out when he left regardless of scandaliciousness."

Oh, and it's been alleged that he was ordered to fire Foggo, and refused, and that that's a factor. Whether that's pure rumor, part true, or definitely part of this, I have no idea just now.

[Gary Farber]

For your Foggo preferences, this:

The agency also has been drawn into a federal investigation of bribery that has sent former Rep. Randall "Duke" Cunningham to prison. Just this past week, the CIA confirmed that its third-ranking official, a hand-picked appointee of Mr. Goss, had attended poker games at a hospitality suite set up by a defense contractor implicated in the bribing of former Rep. Cunningham. Friday, people with knowledge of the continuing Cunningham inquiry said the CIA official, Kyle "Dusty" Foggo, is under federal criminal investigation in connection with awarding agency contracts.

They also go with Hayden as replacement, though more tentatively than Time:

A senior Bush administration official says Gen. Mike Hayden is the "leading candidate" to be named director of the CIA. The senior official says Mr. Goss' successor will be named "early next week."

It's a good thing this is an Administration that hates leaks, isn't it?

[Gary Farber]

Apologies to Ugh re my last but one comment, which duplicated his first comment on this thread, which I sorta forgot/overlooked. Sorry, Ugh.

Also, Larry Johnson's take.

[Gary Farber]

Yet more for KCinDC's curiosity here.

[Gary Farber]

Um, I notice I've just strung together five comments in a row. After a similar number. And a similar number on another thread.

Frankly, this is one reason I tend to run away from posting here.

That sort of thing doesn't seem like a good idea.

[Gary Farber]

The Times is now going with Hayden.

I'm unclear why I'm talking to myself here.

[Gary Farber]

I mean, I can do this here in my own apartment. Na-na-na-na-na.

[bob mcmanus]

Hey I am still awake Gary. The ambien just bounces off me, even chased with vicodin & valium. Maybe I need to move up from 1/2 5's or 5's.

Laura Rosen

Short, so apologies:"But senior administration officials said Bush had lost confidence in Goss, 67, almost from the him. In what was described as a difficult meeting in April with Director of National beginning and decided months ago to replace Intelligence John D. Negroponte, Goss was told to prepare to leave by May, according to several officials with knowledge of the conversation."

What gets Bush excited? Leaks. Umm, uncontrolled leaks. Goss never managed to stop the leaks, and Mary MacCarthy was the final straw. Goss just too much part of CIA culture. If the career dudes thought Goss was horrible, they are going to love Hayden.

Intelligence moved into the Pentagon, permament-like? There was, and is a good reason spooks and soldiers were kept apart. But we have seen this administration wants to merge the functions, to an unprecedented...that word again...degree. At least that is my impression.

There could be a lot said about this. Maybe tomprrow.

[Noumenon]

Did you also figure out why George Tenet quit all of a sudden before I got here?

[Ugh]

To quote Fred Thompson's character in Hunt for Red October:

This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.

Any strike on Iran will be, to quote REM, the end of the world as we know it.

[John Thullen]

Setting us up for Iran and whatever debacle follows.

Bringing great swaths of CIA functions into the White House and then giving a domestic surveillance enthusiast the keys to the CIA.

Straw now gone.

Rumsfeld survives all of this.

These people are Hutu.

You know, guys and girls, this is bad. I'm outta here and off the net completely. I can't talk about this anymore without shredding posting rules.

Good luck to all of us.

[Gary Farber]

I'd as much hate to lose Thullen as I'd hate to lose Slartibartfast.

So far, I'm refusing to admit reality, and I deny these guys are gone, and I'm claiming they had a bad week.

We've all had bad weeks, and said stuff we take back.

God knows I have.

I've also, of course, hopelessly denied that lovers were leaving me. And insisted on believing they'd return soon.

This couldn't possibly be relevant.

But I couldn't possibly want to lose Slarti, or Thullen.

(Quibbles that the DNI isn't in the White House, I set aside.)

Return, Shane! Return! (Slart! Thullen! Read me, damn you!)

[rilkefan]

G*d forbid both Slart and John Thullen have been partying at the Watergate and want to spend more time with their families...

[KCinDC]

Gary, surely it's "come back", not "return"? I can't imagine a kid yelling "Return!" -- or much of anyone else, for that matter. Maybe someone who's not a native English speaker. Or maybe "Return, Will Robinson! Danger!"

[Gary Farber]

"Gary, surely it's "come back", not "return"?"

Yeah, well, what can I say besides that you're right?

Other than that I don't want to admit to either Thullen or Slarti having gone, either way? (I wish I could believe they're still reading all this, but given the way I, myself [who is me, I], wander away and don't read stuff here, for various reasons, mostly having to do with ill health or busyness, I have little confidence in that.)

But the Robot did have not the best grasp of idiomatic English. Funny, that. (And I just loved that picture, which is why I threw it in; I mean, it was an awful tv show, which even though I was in single-digit age at the time, I hated as being Completely Stupid, but, still, who can hate the Robot?)

[KCinDC]

Of course the Robot wasn't great at idiomatic English. That was my point. And even such an advanced creature as Data had similar problems. Use of contractions is clearly the most difficult problem in AI.

But yes, who can hate the Robot? Hell, I couldn't even hate Dr. Smith, and was surprised to see him being so blatantly evil in the first episode when I finally saw it.

[Gary Farber]

"And even such an advanced creature as Data had similar problems. Use of contractions is clearly the most difficult problem in AI."

Yeah, that part never made any sense to me, other than as an arbitrary assertion by Roddenberry.

I always thought that was just dumb. (And bad, bad, bad, writing.)

[Gary Farber]

Though now that we're on this (and here we so need Slarti! Slarti, come back!): Dr. Smith: not the deepest characterization.

Which was pretty much my problem with the show.

Also, I was never very enthused about intelligent vegetables, etc. Even if we saw predecessors in the original The Thing. (But, damn, the original Campbell story was great; I am such an [gafiated] sf geek about that sort of thing, y'know?)

[KCinDC]

Moving to the open thread to avoid irritating passing Gossologists.