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May 04, 2006

Comments

Sometimes I think Hitchens, Sullivan, and Cole deserve each other.

Sometimes, real life is almost as funny as the parody.

Someone recommended this really funny (in all senses) piece of House MD fanfiction: Defensive Strategies.

Does anyone have any idea what the big deal was about singing the national anthem in Spanish? I mean, I'm as patriotic as they come, and all that, but I (a) couldn't care less what language someone else sings it in, and (b) like the whole tradition of people doing things to it, like e.g. Hendrix's Woodstock version.

What am I missing?

(PS: working on a post. It got complicated.)

Excellent comment by Bruce Baugh, maybe better out of context.

Second rilkefan's comment.

Probably the best comment on that whole forsaken thread.

And as rilke says, it doesn't need to have a specific context around it to have meaning.

"Does anyone have any idea what the big deal was about singing the national anthem in Spanish?"

It's like you can't translate the Koran. Traduttore traditore.

No, more likely just someone coming up with a dumb idea and feeling committed to it when the realization it was dumb arrives, and the person's friends going along.

Speaking of fanfiction, anybody here read Harry Potter and the Eagle of Truthiness?

In response to hilzoy:

I am somewhat flustered by all the commotion. Specially when Bush would sing it in Spanish on his campaign stops in 2000 and it was sung in Spanish at his inauguration.

Just so people understand where I am coming from. I get goosebumps when I sing it (and I do sing it) wherever it may be. The anthem has meaning to me.

And hearing it sung in Spanish would not diminish that meaning at all.

Personally, I think this is a cater to the base issue, although I was surprised to see that over 60% of Americans think it should only be sung in English.

Hilz, you're just missing the nativist jingoist streak that runs through America. Perhaps you don't remember the outrage when Jose Feliciano did a latin-blues-jazz version of the Anthem at the 1968 World Series. I was just a white teenager in Ohio at the time, but that is still the best version I've ever heard. But the furor that ensued was really unbelievable. BTW, you can hear Jose's version at josefeliciano.com. It still holds up.

Does anyone have any idea what the big deal was about singing the national anthem in Spanish?

more GOP rabble-rousing.

I was just a white teenager in Ohio at the time, but that is still the best version I've ever heard. But the furor that ensued was really unbelievable. BTW, you can hear Jose's version at josefeliciano.com. It still holds up.

Even better than Marvin Gaye at the NBA All-Star game? I gotta hear it.

One of the better live renditions of the national anthem I've ever witnessed was done by (believe it or not) Cybill Shepherd. Probably a great deal of that was shock that hey, she's actually good.

About Spanish-language versions: this is yet another thing that I don't care one way or another about, except I like to sing along, and singing along in another language doesn't work all that well.

Speaking of House, I'm deeply grateful that House was able to crack me up last night. The rapidfire litany of euphemisms for masturbation that I'd never heard before (marching the penguin, ya-ya-ing the sisterhood, and more I can't recall) just tickled my funnybone.

Figuratively speaking, of course.

the authors here have a really bad case of linkrot. redstate is the most recent, pharyngula changed a while ago, poorman hasn't been correct in ages.

Sullivan thinks Caitlin Flanagan is wonderful. Figures. Two more muddled thinkers fail to come to mind.

...redstate is the most recent...

RedState is still around?

"The Democrats made a huge tactical error a few decades ago. In the middle of doing the great work of the '60s - civil rights, women's liberation, gay inclusion - we decided to stigmatize the white male"

Hey, speak for yourself, sweetheart.

Does anyone have any idea what the big deal was about singing the national anthem in Spanish?

Dunno. I'ma old skool. I only sing the tune to words of "To Anacreon in Heaven."

While we're at it though, someone should translate "Maryland, My Maryland" into German.

Linkrot fixed. Now that I know how to do it, I'll be glad to fix any others you happen to notice.

intel dump

'k; fixed that, and added Engineer-Poet, who blogs some interesting things about energy.

I don't think the issue was singing the anthem in Spanish, but the motivation and the actual translation itself.

"We decided to show our solidarity with the undocumented migrants," says President Adam Kidron of UBO Records...

The song tries to say in music what millions of immigrants have argued in recent street demonstrations: America's tradition is inclusion.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-060426nuestro,1,2759626.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true>http://www.chicagotribune.com


Singing the anthem in any language is fine with me. But they didn't do it to be respectful or honor America.

If someone wants to be included then they should do something inclusive. This song achieves the opposite. Much like their May Day work stoppage. Marching on the weekend would make their point. They wanted to hurt other Americans. That's not inclusive either.


ttlr: "But they didn't do it to be respectful or honor America."

How do you know?

Now that I've had time to consider, I think "tickling the funnybone" is probably worthy of consideration as one of those euphemisms.

slarti,

I am with you on House. The litany was great, and the look on the mother's face had me rolling. Made me think that the mother probably hadn't recently procured the imfamous "all a woman really wants"

rilkefan,

I can only take the guy at his word. He stated clearly and I quoted it in my post why he did it.

I guess he could be lying.

ttlr, I'd say that arguing that one's cause is in the great American tradition is respectful of America and honors it.

Thanks for the honesty, dude: when you got nothin', you say you got nuthin'.

Hear! Hear!

rilkefan,

Like I said and they claimed they weren't trying to honor the song or the country.

You have to create meaing where they didn't even intend or claim it. Have at it!

rilkefan,

Guess most American agree with me and not you.

Check out the Zogby, Rasmussen, Gallup and Fox polls. Probably the first time I think the polls might actually mean something.

The backlash is pretty severe.

ttlr, if one does x, which implies y, then one does y. If you get the guy on record saying he didn't mean to do y, then you have an argument - till then you have a confusion.

ttlr,

Why didn't you include this quote, also from the Chicago Trib?

"The intention of recording `Nuestro Himno' [`Our Anthem'] has never been to discourage immigrants from learning English and embracing American culture. We instead view `Nuestro Himno' as a song that affords those immigrants that have not yet learned the English language the opportunity to fully understand the character of `The Star-Spangled Banner,' the American flag and the ideals of freedom that they represent."

--British music producer Adam Kidron's response to the uproar regarding the Spanish version of the U.S. national anthem.

Funnily enough, this one - a direct expression of what "they" are claiming - seems to have been missed as well in your Tribune reading:

By embracing a song that symbolizes American values, immigrants hope to reinforce the message that their desire is to be part of this country, regardless of legal status. In that vein, some organizers have urged participants in next Monday's march in the Loop to bring only American flags and leave Mexican banners at home.

"In our countries, national anthems are a beautiful expression of who we are," said Juan Carlos Ruiz, general coordinator of the Washington-based National Capital Immigration Coalition. "Our immigrant communities want to be a part of this country. We want the American dream."

An account of singing the Star-Spangled Banner in California, a couple of years ago... (in English, but it appears to have disconcerted the wingnuts just as much...)

An account of singing the Star-Spangled Banner in California, a couple of years ago... (in English, but it appears to have disconcerted the wingnuts just as much...)

I'm not sure a German translation of 'she spurns the Northern scum' would really capture it. People would wonder how anyone could be so down on the Danes.

The Toles cartoon in today's Post is right on the money. The guard is ushering Moussaoui into his cell, and says "I'm afraid you going to have to settle for 72 vermin."

Then, in small print in the lower right, "They're not going to let you be a real part of their group either."

I've come around of the jury's use of his bad childhood as a mitigating factor. Surely little would wound the pride of these people more than to suggest that their devotion to the cause is not fueled so much by its righteousness, but by their own damages psyches. That is, I think deflation might be more effective than inflation. As http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/04/AR2006050401698.html>David Cole shows, it's all a sideshow anyway.

"Tough talk in news conferences, overheated charges that evaporate under scrutiny and executions for symbolic purposes will not make us safer."

It's practically government by blog.

spartikus,

If you read my comments I said that I have no problem with translating the anthem into other languages. I think that is great!

I think part of the issue is the intentional mistranslation and the fact that it came at a time when they are intentionally trying to do harm to the country.

If that makes me a wingnut, then so be it.

Isn't Bush evil for being above the law? Hilzoy seems to think so. Why should these lawbreakers be treated any differently than Bush.

Shouldn't the law apply equally to all?

This is the antithesis of everything this country stands for. We claim to believe in the rule of law, not men; Illegal Aliens violate that principle. We claim to believe in the separation of powers; Illegal Aliens claim for themselves the right to make, execute, and interpret our laws. We claim to believe in democracy; Illegal Aliens claim the right to decide which laws to execute and which to violate without informing the people, let alone debate, what they are doing.

Apparently, we are just supposed to trust Illegal Aliens on that one, whether they have earned our trust or not.

ttlr: "Check out the Zogby, Rasmussen, Gallup and Fox polls. Probably the first time I think the polls might actually mean something."

IOW, is it appropriate for me to assume that the polls only mean something when they agree with your POV?

According to all those polls, there is an even stronger backlash against Bush.

Can you point out where "they are intentionally trying to do harm to the country"?

And your last little exercise is cute but totally irrelevant as illegal aliens are trying to do none of that.

"I think part of the issue is the intentional mistranslation and the fact that it came at a time when they are intentionally trying to do harm to the country."

What "intentional mistranslation" are you referring to? Cite?

Who are the "they" you are referring to here?

Then you put something in blockquotes, but neither name nor link to whom you are quoting; this is unedifying; could you clarify the source, please?

As to its content: "We claim to believe in the rule of law, not men; Illegal Aliens violate that principle."

Gibberish. Feel free to explain, though.

"We claim to believe in the separation of powers; Illegal Aliens claim for themselves the right to make, execute, and interpret our laws."

Please provide a cite for illegal aliens so doing, if you wish anyone to believe this assertion. Furthermore, do "Illegal Aliens" have an elected hierarchy who speak for them all? Or are they Borg? Or is there another explanation, besides those to, for how this, too, isn't gibberish?

"We claim to believe in democracy; Illegal Aliens claim the right to decide which laws to execute and which to violate without informing the people, let alone debate, what they are doing."

This doesn't even make grammatical sense. "...and which to violate without informing the people, let alone debate, what they are doing."

Sorry: who should be informing who, and who should be debating? This isn't even intelligible.

But I do hope you get over your fear of the Borg. Have you seen Spanglish? Or spent any time in an Irish neighborhood in NYC or Boston?

Gary, FWIW, I think he was taking a quote from a previous post, or somewhere, where everytime Bush was mentioned he changed it to illegal alien. As I said above, cute but irrelevant.

If illegal aliens were being paid to take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, the example might be a little more relevant.

What "intentional mistranslation" are you referring to? Cite?

Who are the "they" you are referring to here?

The same people putting fluoride in the water.

"As I said above, cute but irrelevant."

Since that would clarify that it's gibberish, I don't even see how it gets to be cute. Whether correctly or incorrectly, George Bush can be alleged to claim something or have said something; "Illegal Aliens" can't be said to have said something. Doesn't make any sense, as I noted in the first place.

But thanks for clarifying why it's literally gibberish.

As a rule, commenters on English-language blogs seeking to communicate with others might find it advisable to start by writing in English, I think.

Admittedly, a lot of blogs have a lot of violations of that suggestion.

Gary,

What "intentional mistranslation" are you referring to? Cite?

Blinded by the radiance of your own genius you missed ttlr's link from up above.

But since reading what he wrote or clicking on his link was a mystery for you here's a helping hand:

An alternate version to be released next month includes a rap in English that never occurred to Francis Scott Key:

"Nuestro Himno": The song is a loose translation of the national anthem.

Chant:

It's time to make a difference the kids, men and the women/Let's stand for our beliefs, let's stand for our vision/What about the children los ninos como P-Star

These kids have no parents, cause all of these mean laws.

See this can't happen, not only about the Latins.

Asians, blacks and whites and all they do is adding

more and more, let's not start a war

with all these hard workers,

they can't help where they were born.

If ttlr said they had just made sh** up and added it into the anthem he/she would have been more accurate.

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