Drug War Atrocity

Don't have time for an extended comment, but I'm not kidding when I use the word "atrocity".  My view on torture in general is here.  I think we ought to all be able to agree that it has no place in our society.  That said I can at least see where those who support it in limited instances in a war situation are coming from.  I think they are very wrong.  I think they aren't looking at the probability of an innocent person being tortured.  But at least I can understand their point of view.  This incident related by Radley Balko goes far beyond that.  (Don't listen to the audio unless you want to cry).  There is no seduction of the ticking bomb scenario.  There is no pretense of saving an entire city from anhiliation.  There is nothing but power lust coupled with sadism.  Those men (I will not dignify them with the label "officer") must be punished as much as anyone who would kidnap and then torture.  Perhaps more, as the betrayal of trust is incredibly damaging to civil society. 

Comments

[liberal japonicus]

Radley Balko was also the person who has been writing about Corey Maye. I'd suggest to the kitty that he be added to the blogroll.

[john miller]

A mind set trickles down form the top. If the US Government can utilize torture, than why not others?

The trickle down theory may not work in economics, but it works in a lot of cultural ways.

[will]

I read the same thing at the agitator. I didnt have the heart to listen to it.

It truly is amazing what gets done in the name of "good."

[John Thullen]

Why is it news that a good part of the citizenry spends a good deal of time sitting around with a jones on to get tough on crime and "give me 5 minutes with these guys" and "lock em up and throw away the key", and "hang a few of them in the public square; that'll serve as an example", and "so what if they bugger and beat up each other in prison; that'll teach em" and then we have a group of low quality, low IQ cowards with rented uniforms carrying out the citizenry's wet dream?

What a shock! You know what we oughta do? And then someone does it. It's like backing over a female protestor with a bulldozer in the Middle East. Whoops, ain't that a shame, exclaim the big swinging you know whats you know where.

For example, let the citizenry of California loose on Jeffrey Skilling. But don't rumple the suit.

For many Americans, due process is a goddamned imposition. It's governmental intrusion on their bohunk lust for a little free-market vigilante Pat Buchananism. It's an inconvenient regulation on mobs with torches. C'mon boys, we're rugged individualist Americans, now pick up the pitchforks and follow me.

But thank you, Sebastian. Hell of a post.

If they remake "To Kill A Mockingbird", you've passed the audition for Gregory Peck's role. ;)

You'll notice in that movie that Boo Radley turns out to be a kind of vigilante. In self-defense and sympathetic, yes, but still the law (itself ambivalent about right and wrong)steps aside and lets the citizens work it out in their own way.

We are a problematical people.

[Urinated State of America]

"But thank you, Sebastian. Hell of a post."

Ditto. It's disturbing that the DNA Abu Ghraib and Gitmo is being coded into our society.

[Sebastian Holsclaw]

"It's disturbing that the DNA Abu Ghraib and Gitmo is being coded into our society."

You might be right, but I suspect these type of things have been going on for decades on a (hopefully only) intermitent basis. The ability to record police treatment without their knowledge is somewhat new. But whichever direction the precedent goes, we should definitely stop it.

[Jackmormon]

I fear Sebastian's right. I know that the abuses discovered during the War on Terror have made me much more cognizant (and worried) about abuses in our War on Drugs.

[Nell]

whichever direction the precedent goes, we should definitely stop it.

One of your most insightful comments ever, Sebastian. Thanks.

It's a two-way process:
Bottom-up, widespread abuse by police and guards (with averted eyes and impunity for most of it) ensures a ready supply of military torturers.
Top-down, a policy of torture sends the signal that being in a position of authority or power over others who can be depicted as "threats" permits torture.

[pdf23ds]

"One of your most insightful comments ever, Sebastian. Thanks."

Is it just me, or is this damning with faint praise?

[Slartibartfast]

It's just you.

[ScottM]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

[dutchmarbel]

Kudo's for posting about this Sebastian. Indeed, intolerable.
I hope the guys who did it will get punished.

[Katherine]

Jesus.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd never heard of this. It seems to have been covered on sites that follow the drug war and in Tennessee news, but nothing national.

Insofar as this is relevant to the debate about torture on the war on terror, I would just add it to the endless list of examples of why this is a power that you should never, ever, ever, ever entrust to any government on earth.

According to this link they were convicted, and sentenced to terms from 3.5 to 6 years in prison.

[Randy Paul]

Let me join in the amen chorus, here, Sebastian. Well done.

[hilzoy]

Good Lord.

Thanks, Sebastian.

And if anyone thinks "One of your most insightful comments ever, Sebastian" is damning with faint praise -- well, I'll leave it to Nell to interpret her own comment, but I wouldn't have read it that way, nor meant it that way had I said it.

[SomeOtherDude]

Do you guys want our society to be soft on crime?

[John Thullen]

SomeOtherDude:

I don't know. But could we postpone the beatings and the torture until after the trial and sentencing, just for a start?

[SomeOtherDude]

A buncha liberals!

This is how Rome fell!

Christians softening up on the Barbarians and then BOOM! The end of empire!

[dutchmarbel]

The barbarians weren't soft on christianity but it still didn't seem to be stopped by the harsh treatment...

[Jackmormon]

I'm pretty sure SomeOtherDude is spoofing, but don't let that stop anyone from articulating their positions.

[John Thullen]

I was spoofing, too.

I don't think there should be torture and beatings AFTER sentencing either.

Although, my thinking might change after the impeachment of George W. Bush and, say, the arrest of David Asman of FOX News, just for starters.

I'm kind of an open-minded liberal in that way.

[dutchmarbel]

I assumed he was having fun too Jackmormon. Should I have added smileys?

[The Modesto Kid]

When in doubt, always add smileys. The blogosphere would be a far better place if everyone followed this maxim and festooned their snarks and spoofings with emoticons.

[Uncle Kvetch]

As someone who disagrees with Sebastian far more often than not, I'd like to add my voice to the kudos. Well done indeed.

[Nell]

Slarti and hilzoy have correctly interpreted my praise as sincere.

[SomeOtherDude]

Yes, it was my take on right-wing blowhards.

[Debbie(aussie)]

It is very sad. I saw the shorts for aprogram on out 'criminal investigation' cahannel(pay tv) reagrding systematic torture of US prisoners. Couldn't watch it, makes me too angry. Seems true about ready and willing torturers for the military does it not. Some of thos at Abu Grahib were prison officers weren't they?
My praise to Sebastian also.

[Drug War Victim]

Hello;

I'm Eddy LaBarr in Montrose, Colorado, with links to our site and a warm human interest story regarding our experiences with the ruthless Drug Enforcement Administration. From 1986 to 1993, after more than 400 incidents of harassment we were forced to purchase Soviet Starlight night vision equipment to identify a group of trespassers who were routinely hanging out around our bedroom windows at night. The mixed, multi-agency group would have loose, normal voice level conversations and commentaries about what my wife and I were doing in bed. This disgusting practice had been ongoing at the rate of 3 - 4 times per week since around 1986 when our law enforcement agencies began accruing massive allotments of thermal Infrared equipment and began training on civilians. We couldn't ever catch them and their illegal activities were causing problems inside our household as our parental attentions came to be diverted towards stopping trespassers instead of just enjoying life and raising kids.

Montrose, Colorado is a little town located on the sparsely populated Western side of this state and had a population of around 7000 at the time of this incident. It has always had a massive over-staffed, over-budgeted police apparatus with relatively nothing to do and a big Drug War agenda. Illegal trespassing and Peeping Tom activities came to be so bad that we actually had to leave the area for several months during the peak of these events.

We returned to our home with our Soviet Starlight unit: http://www.anti-mafia.com/Starlight-Scope.htm , which was a major investment for us and caught the entire group 6 days later as they were routinely trespassing. The first person identified was an investigator with the local Sheriff's department whom we knew along with 8 - 12 others, all wearing flat black suits or dark clothing. We were actually savoring this experience as a long overdue closure of sorts was taking place in our 7 year long trespassing investigation. We were unaware of how dangerous police can be when they are busted in an illegal act.

The morning after our first encounter; July 1st, 1993, 6:00 AM: As the sun was rising I did a 360 sweep with our scope and noticed a group of around 6 persons atop one of our cowsheds; 4 Mexicans wearing loose, baggy white clothes and 2 others with Khaki shirts which had black flaps on the pockets, who were setting up a pyramid shaped pup-tent frame. Then they pitched a tarp over it which looked like the bright side of Tin-Foil and had a distinct UV or black light colored band around it about 2/3 the way up from the bottom. Within a few minutes events were beginning to transpire at a startling rate including sharpshooters sprinting onto the property and one with a pistol who had lined up a two-for-one headshot -my wife and I. I recall the initial scene as I showed my wife exactly what was going on and seeing her keen interest, and then seeing her go into shock in less than a minute. We spent the next 72 hours at split second gunpoint. Being forced to observe this system, our complaints thereafter had the appearance of paranoia or related mental symptoms.

Looking back at the cowshed, their UV pyramid device seemed to have disappeared, literally. Once assembled in sunlight the viewer with unaided eyes can see what's behind the device, yet it is seen as clear as day with the UV filters and light amplification of the starlight scope, along with their personnel. Also, with this system; razor sharp images of their personnel and equipment can be viewed on plate glass windows (not mirrors) -with nothing seen at the sight where the reflection indicates. http://www.anti-mafia.com/D.E.A.-Tech.htm . I'm an electronics engineer and Ham radio operator and knew that when I understood why their ambient images could be viewed on plate glass -and not mirrors, I'd understand their system. That process took about 18 months and we filed our results with the U.S. Attorney General who responded with a one-line form letter. We were followed around by these personnel who subjected us to endless spectacles and were standing on the hoods and roofs of our vehicles filming and harassing us. The theory of how this all works is outlined on our site and we are now out to sell our story to film makers.

We have certified that nothing in our story or on our site is classified nor of any security concerns to the U.S. Govt. It is our belief that this system has been given to all of the NATO governments for usage on their civilians. It almost seems like this was once a Masonic device, but we're not Masons... The level or disinterest and non-concern sort of suggested a cover up and It wasn't until over a decade later that we figured out that the pyramid device we saw had most likely been illegally taken out of Cheyenne Mountain, a major Air Force facility 200 miles away.

There is a "psychic efficacy associated with this device: http://www.anti-mafia.com/prayer_channel.htm

http://www.anti-mafia.com/hate_crime_memorial.HTM

http://www.death2meth.org/

Let us know if your interested in an interview or want more info on anything that's not already on our site.

Eddy LaBarr
Montrose, CO

[email protected]