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October 24, 2005


You *might* just be old enough to remember (and appreciate) a New Yorker cartoon of a generation or two back:

Two gentlemen are standing outside a building with an external staircase leading to a door marked "Foundation Office." One says to the other: "While you're up, get me a grant." {*}

Hope that brings a smile, however faint. If not, consider that one of the beauties of retirement, almost up with not attending department meetings, is quitting the entire sport of grantsmanship.

{*} For the "youf" out there who don't get it, it's a play on a whisky ad campaign of the time: "While you're up, get me a Grant's"

dr ngo: all other New Yorker cartoons have been blotted out in my mind by the sheer brilliance of the one in which a somewhat grimy mechanic is talking to a customer. He has opened the hood, and is gesturing inside, where instead of an engine a huge scaly monster is growling menacingly; the caption reads: 'Well, there's your problem.'

And my other favorite: a cat in a beret, looking very artsy and debonair, is standing in front of a group of admiring other cats, gesturing at a chair whose upholstery has been completely shredded (in a way that, as the owner of two cats, I am very familiar with), and the caption reads: And here's a new project I'm very excited about...,9565,1121966,00.html>Iraqi politics. No comment.

I think I must be a dumbass and totally misunderstood what somebody said. It is pretty a darn disorienting limbo-like feeling. If you know (really know) something about this, and think I should just let it go, please just say "DaveC, let it go", and I will.

To change the open subject, does anybody else but me think that Bin Laden is dead, and that Al Zawahiri is in charge of AQ?

Here is my current woe. Reuters say that indictment letters could be sent out on Monday and that the jury could issue its charges on Tuesday. Now, Tuesday is my birthday, and while what I'd really like as a present is a whopping, well-substantiatied case of criminal conduct, I simply can't believe that I'll get it.

Oh, I've read (obsessively) all the community Plameologist blogs and I believe that Fitzgerald is straight and that the cause is serious, but I can't bring myself to hope in such a birthday present, really.

And more seriously, no matter how vindicated I want to feel about the appalling political screw-turning that led us into Iraq, I do fear that the necessary consequences of this thing's blowing wide upon will be ugly for years to come.

So I want, for my birthday, indictments. But I also want the idea of government to survive. Is that so much to ask?

Are there any Ween fans that read ObWi? What do you think is better "Chocolate and Cheese" or "The Mollusk"? Can You think of any other band that did Classic Rock - Funk - Punk - Country - Folk - Prog Rock - Novelty? The closest I can think of is The Kinks.

CMatt, that's really rich! We're upset with the current Iraqi government because it's divisive, incompetent and corrupt, and the solution is Chalabi?

Maybe it's time to re-start the war of drugs, because some folks are obviously doing some illegal sh*t 'round town.

No, I've got it! It's a variation on 70s campus revolutionary wannabees: hope things get so bad that the people revolt. That's it: we sponsor Chalabi, and after a year of his regime, the Iraqi people beg for the return of the CPA.

Kidding aside, what's kind of scary about this news is the extent to which it represents a complete surrender of even the current mission in Iraq. Surely Mr. C must be voted 'most likely to become "President for Life"' among those in the Class of 2003. And that Rice and Hadley have decided that we're better off with a corrupt president for life than anything like the vision they've been peddling up to now, shows how hopeless the thing must really be. Have the last believers really jumped ship?


Via the earthquake, or earlier?

Chalabi?! Just when you think you've lost the ability to be amazed, they throw something like this at you...

And, DaveC: what are we supposed to think you might let go of?

DaveC: what are we supposed to think you might let go of?

I sent a message to the kitty.

Via the earthquake, or earlier?

I'm not sure. The Zawahiri to Zarqawi intercepted letter may be fake, but the public announcements from AQ or Islamic Jihad or whatever seem to be absent OBL.


I don't care about indictments, really. I mean, I care, but it's such a pathetic thing to be rejoicing about. What does it fix for Scooter freaking Libby to go to jail? With Rove or DeLay, yeah, it's probably the only way to get them out of power. But I think they're eminently replaceable with people who are nearly as bad.

I want it not to have happened, and failing that I want it over. ("it" being "everything that's gone wrong in the past 4+ years"). I'm not immune to schadenfreude anymore than anyone else here, but it's precious little consolation. It doesn't even fix things for Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame, let alone the people's lives who have really been destroyed by some of these other policies.

We had a chance to stop it last November, and we blew it, and now at best we can hope things get worse more slowly until 2006. And I don't think it's even really possible to take back a house of Congress with the electoral system stacked against the Democrats as it is. And I still don't know where the party's leadership is, what their strategy is, what they stand for.

More cheery reading here.

I might as well throw in a link to the Harriet Miers Blog via VodkaPundit

DaveC, somebody out there more informed and smarter than me (Praktike, maybe?) convinced me that OBL has been dead for years. I think it doesn't much matter though. Re Z., I don't know if that matters so much either, under the metastasis scenario.

Hope the Kitten hears your message with forbearance - if you're a fan of the tv show Angel, you know what I mean.

I want it over. ("it" being "everything that's gone wrong in the past 4+ years")

Especially the news coverage !

I remember arguing with the Tacitusites back in the day about the incident where insurgents burned/hanged the bodies of American servicemen. My take: you can't get deader than dead. Whoever I was arguing with (maybe Tac - guess we were on speaking terms then) took what I may not be caricaturing as the "this shows we're more civilized than them" line. Anyway, I haven't seen a reaction about the recent religious desecration of two dead Afghans by some American soldiers from the dextersphere, but then looking longer than glancingly dispirits me.

Katherine, your link convinces me that there might be something for the knock-down-drag-out battle facing us to achieve. I'll leave it there for now.

Dont click on the "news coverage" if you're on dial-up. That's about as bad as clicking a link to "Deans World" - really, really slow.

SH getting a hard time from the sinistersphere. Note that DeLong said some very nice things about SH not long ago.

Also at the above, the dispiriting sentence of the week (well, last week for Crooked Timber readers):

"For why would a man court a woman for marriage when she may be sexually enjoyed, and regularly, without it?"

p.s. Dear Kitten, I'm not too fond of "post" morphing into "submit query".

I know, I'm normally the first one to warn against defeatism as inaccurate or, worse, self-fulfilling. Bad day, and it's driven in part by petty things like my job search and publication woes. Also, my arch nemesis continues to flourish. Never look at you arch-nemesis's C.V. when he's a tenured Berkeley professor and you're getting rejected by the Hollywood Upstairs Law Review.

Submit query?

Hmm, typepad giveth, typepad taketh back. I can once again hit "Post".

And rilkefan: Leon Kass is just one dispiritment after another. I thought about writing on that one, but I couldn't bring myself to. (I thought it was totally unfair to men as well as women.) Likewise, the so-dispiriting-I-couldn't-bring-myself-to post story here. (The twelve year old neo-Nazi twin girl singers. From an interview at a site I will not link to:

"Please tell me the significance of the name Prussian Blue.

Part of our heritage is Prussian German. Also our eyes are blue, and Prussian Blue is just a really pretty color. There is also the discussion of the lack of "Prussian Blue" coloring (Zyklon B residue) in the so-called gas chambers in the concentration camps. We think it might make people question some of the inaccuracies of the "Holocaust" myth."

They are twelve, for heaven's sake.

The argument against home schooling, in a nutshell.)

About that last post: Prussian Blue is the name the twins sing under.

My (contentless) Prussian Blue visual rhyme.

BBC Osama>timeline href>

At any point between the 2004 videotape and the earthquake, I'd have needed to see the body to believe him dead. If he's still quiet at this time next year I might be willing to place small bets.

Both links are depressing. Yoo should probably mull his treaty enforcement views a while longer, dwelling on extradition and the phrase, "President Hillary Clinton". Maybe he figures she'd hire him instead - something his supporters might want to consider. Careful what you wish...

So I want, for my birthday, indictments. But I also want the idea of government to survive. Is that so much to ask?

Actually, yes. Or should I say "And a pony!"

But if you aren't feeling in a super cynical mood (like you skipped all the previous comments and went straight to this one, the NextHurrah has this, which, in its own way, is as cynical as anything else.

Merry Fitzmas to all, and a Happy New Era!

Can You think of any other band that did Classic Rock - Funk - Punk - Country - Folk - Prog Rock - Novelty?

Frank Zappa, certainly. Adrian Belew, maybe.

hilzoy: Grant writing, yech! I've just finished writing a grant and need to start another one but haven't been able to force myself to start it yet. Good luck with yours.

About that last post: Prussian Blue is the name the twins sing under.

Um, Prussian Blue is also a marker dye used for aligning differential gears. Just for the trivia of it.

All the Leon Kass stuff is funnier if you picture it being said by a woodcarving of a late-19th-century English gentleman, animated Terry Gilliam-style.

Phil -- what an excellent idea!

In case anybody needs the falsehood exposed, here is a discussion of claims that gas chambers at Auschwitz were not used for gassing with Zyklon B based on the absence of blue pigment stains.

Ah, interesting, Jeremy. I'd always wondered why PB would have been a PART of Zyklon-B. Short answer: it wasn't.

BTW it's tropical-storming out right now. We prepared all day yesterday, but the worst of it is passing far to the south of us. I even dug out my FEMA Emergency Summoning Beacon, but it looks like I won't need it.

Slarti: Glad to hear that the worst of the storm is going to miss you and that it weakened from the worst hurricane recorded in the Atlantic to a tropical storm before it got to you.

What's with the hurricanes this year anyway? Tropical storm Alpha is out there and hurricane season isn't at an end yet. Abberation? Global warming? An abbarent year on a background of global warming? North Koreans controlling the weather? God trying to get Bush's attention?

Just talked to my dad in St. Pete Beach: they had wind, some rain, nothing too bad. Actually a net positive, as Wilma removed some dead fronds the folks had just gotten an estimate for removing. An ill wind, as they say . . .

My personal feeling on this is that we simply haven't been recording hurricanes as well as we do now for a worst-on-record year to be all that meaningful. I think this is the worst in the last seventy years, which is just an eyeblink of history.

i'm hoping Wilma throws a tentacle my way and gives us some rain. actually, i've hoped that from every storm this season, none have delivered. my poor grass! won't someone think of the fescue?

We've been getting all the rain here in the Boston area. It sounds as if Wilma is going to pass well out to sea, but, in the process, sideswipe a developing northeaster in such a way as to give us another goodly serving of wind and rain tomorrow. It's the last thing we need.


I'm going to go with Chocolate and Cheese, but it's a real close call. "Mister Would You Please Help My Pony?" is a classic. Thoroughtly creepy lyrics, yet strangly light and poppy. With Ween, though, your favorite album is probably going to depend on what your consciousness-altering substance of choice is. Not that I'd know anything about that. Drugs are bad, mmm-kay?

"Bush is, as Charles said, facing a crisis, and I cannot for the life of me see any reason to believe either that he is capable of seeing what needs to be done to get himself out of it (basically: taking on a bunch of entirely new advisors who are serious, responsible and knowledgeable, and being willing to listen seriously to them), or willing to do those things."

The problems that Bush is facing stem solely, IMHO, from Bush. He has kept the advisors that he wanted, and he's gotten rid of those that he didn't. He's had more personal power than any president since FDR (?); I have no problem with holding him accountable for things that he should be held accountable for.

Larv, The last time that I ate something special and then went to sleep was many many years ago at the Grand Canyon. We woke up and had breakfast at the tables outside the restaurant, with the mountain bluebirds and mountain chickadees all around that seemed at once familiar, but then again kind of strange. Everybody agreed that the coffee there was the best we had ever had, and after that we walked down to Plateau Point. So I'd have to say that "What Deaner was talking about" is one of my sentimental favorites.

I don't think Bush has driven the country into a wall yet. We are just starting to see the realization creep into the national conciousness that five years of doing donuts on other people's lawns, running over rosebushes, and smacking mailboxes with baseball bats might have some consequences.

The wall could be Bush's reaction to a real oil crisis, Iraq getting terminally worse, or our impending fiscal disaster.

DaveC: Todd Rundgren has done everything and been everyone for 35 years.

New Yorker cartoons: I have too many favorites, but two recent ones are in the "desert island" series -- #1: two disheveled guys are sitting on the island (which is a two-butt island with a lone palm tree, like those plastic islands you get with the little green turtle, who then crawls behind the refrigerator) One guy is eating an ice cream sundae. The other guy (maybe a woman) is looking at him and asking "You couldn't get me one while you were out?) -- and #2: A man and a woman are sitting on the island. The guy says to the woman: "I'd like to start seeing other castaways".

Which leads me to Leon Kass: "For why would a man court a woman for marriage when she may be sexually enjoyed, and regularly, without it?"

I could riff on this at length, but isn't there something a little too eager and wistful about Kass's tone in the words "and regularly"? Unless, he just means every other Tuesday.

Which leads me back to New Yorker cartoons:
A couple are sitting on the couch. The wife is reading a woman's magazine. She says to the husband, "This article explains why you're such an idiot".

We have this on our refrigerator (the one on top of the turtle) because my wife like to leave little articles around the house for my perusal, with titles like "Top Ten Signs You Are Stark Raving Mad" or "Seven Symptoms Of (insert some bad habit)".

This never happened when we were courting. At least not regularly.

Last but not least, for DaveC and whomever else is wondering:

A number of years ago my wife was in the front yard rooting around in the flower garden. The neighbor kid (maybe seven years old at the time, whom I used to discuss weighty matters with just to see what was on his mind) strolled over and stood behind her, watching, for many minutes without uttering a peep.

Then he asked, without preface and out of the blue: "Why is John like that?"

My wife burst into laughter, dropped her trowel and answered: "I just don't know why, but I do know exactly what you mean."

We have this on our refrigerator (the one on top of the turtle)

I hope that's either a very big turtle or a very small refrigerator.

Young man, you are quite clever, but it's turtles all the way down...

Oh jeez, this isn't going to degenerate into another creation myths thread is it?

I don't know about the homeschooling thing. I've had a lot of experience with it, and I really hesitate to take that right away from people. If there comes a time when the government uses public school to teach attitudes and ideology that you personally find completely abhorrent, I think you're going to want to have the option to bring your kid elsewhere.

And then there's the difficulty in distinguishing between private and home schools. The only way to let private schools still be an option while getting rid of most homeschools is to offer some sort of mandatory accreditation program, which can also be pretty onerous in that it limits private schools' ability to experiment with different methods, and allows another route for government ideology to influence children's education. On the other hand, a minimal level of accreditation (something that many states already do for private and homeschools) may be necessary. But the amount of regulation necessary to prevent the kind of hate-filled education like the Prussian Blue girls receive will probably be uncomfortably invasive in the operations of normas private schools.

So knee-jerk reactions against homeschooling are dangerous, I think. Education is an issue that's probably as vastly complicated as healthcare, only somewhat less urgent, and thus less talked about.

That is an awesome turtle illustration.

"and I really hesitate to take that right away from people."

I should say, "freedom".

pdf23ds: yeah, I don't actually support not letting kids be home schooled, as long as there is some accreditation or testing to ensure that home schooling is distinguishable from no schooling, for the reasons you gave. I do think, though, that the Prussian Blue kids encapsulate the argument against it pretty well.

Besides wind and rain, Wilma has brought a 20 degree temperature drop with her. Well, that last was coming anyway, but it's all here at once.

Current temperature: 61 degrees.
Temperature this time yesterday: about 85 degrees.

"to ensure that home schooling is distinguishable from no schooling"

Well, I would say "neglect" instead of "no schooling". With the right environment (very important) kids of some temperments can learn a lot on their own. Unfortunately, I've see the cases that do border on or pass over into neglect, and it really is tragic. Especially when the stay-at-home parent is mentally unstable.

And also, even minimal accreditation sometimes intereferes with the educational philosophy that certain subjects are just inappropriate until a certain age. For instance, it might be hard to get away with not teaching your kid math until they hit puberty (which is about the time their logical skills have really started to develop, IIRC), even if you plan to have them doing calculus four years after that. Same for some other subjects.

On the other hand, if things like that really are the right approach, it should be possible for the parents along with public educators and researchers to get the requirements changed, and in the end protecting kids from neglect might be worth the price. I don't really have any numbers, but they'd be nice. Kind of hard to gather in this area, though, since so many homeschoolers are sort of under the radar.

Ok, I commented once on the home-schooling thing and Typepad ate it. Curse you, Typepad!!

But here goes nothing, Volume II: my school-age daughter is one of those kids that it takes real skill to keep engaged, and she's extremely sociable. Home school may work, but I wouldn't want to try it. In fact, I'd not think private school would do any better. We've had some really outstanding teachers, not that that's sufficient in and of itself, but her teacher this year has turned a barely passing third grade kind of kid into an enthusiastic straight-A fourth grader. If I could, I'd commandeer her for my own personal use through middle school.

As a teacher, I mean. So, so much for the public/private/homeschool conversation, as far as I'm concerned.

Slarti: I think I might very well have done better being home-schooled; school, for me, was an unmitigated disaster until sometime in high school. (Short version: I was bored to tears and 'unpopular' doesn't begin to describe me. But what I did in my free time was basically school-like stuff, and I was interested in more or less everything.) I just think there should be some requirement that people demonstrate that some actual education has been happening, is all.

"My personal feeling on this is that we simply haven't been recording hurricanes as well as we do now for a worst-on-record year to be all that meaningful."

At risk of loosing my credibility as a crazed liberal environmentalist loony, I'm inclined to agree, at least for the moment. The second worst year on record had only one fewer hurricanes than this one has had so far and it was, IIRC, fairly early in the last century. That seems more like natural variation than a change, unless a trend shows up. For example, if, in the next decade, we regularly see Hurricane Phi, Rho, and Omega, then I'll be more convinced that this is the start of a trend.

I haven't read any primary source meterology, but the Economist (which generally has good science writers) had a story on hurricanes and the question of whether they were getting worse, due to global warming or for other reasons. They quoted an article that stated that the average number of hurricanes is not increasing, but the average strength is. That is, there are many more force 4 and 5 hurricanes in the past 5 years than there were at any time previously recorded. Of course, that too could be an anomoly or a natural variation that has nothing to do with human activity. However, I'd still be inclined to sign Kyoto, encourage further treaties to reduce CO2 production, and heavily tax SUVs, were I in a position to do any of those things.

oh yeah, AIPAC + Plame + WMD + Saddam = ???

hilzoy, I'm inclined to bring in some discussion of the School of the Air used throughout the outback and other sparsely-populated areas of Australia. They're a model of homeschooling efficiency, at least as far as what I know of them, and ignoring away their legacy re: the aborigines.

hilzoy: My experience in K-12 school was similar to yours, at least by your description. I would have loved to have been home schooled and would probably have come out with a better education, at least on the pre-HS level. However, from the point of view of an adult, I wonder if it would have been a good idea. All these home schooled kids will have to leave home and learn to deal with the real world eventually. And the real world is going to be a shock to someone who has never interacted with their peers. So, painful as it is, maybe it's better to have to learn to cope before becoming an adult and having to deal with it full time...Then again, maybe it would be easier to only have to learn to deal with obnoxious peers after one's ego is firmly formed and one can see their behavior in proper perspective. In any case, I agree that there need to be educational standards that any school, public, private, or home, passes to ensure that the children being schooled at any given institution are being given the chance to learn.

Sigh. Did I mention that I am supposed to be writing a grant? It has nothing to do with home schooling or hurricanes.

All these home schooled kids will have to leave home and learn to deal with the real world eventually. And the real world is going to be a shock to someone who has never interacted with their peers.

As I recall from back when we were looking into home schooling, there are a number of studies out there suggesting that this is a myth. Home-schooled children tended to turn out to be better socially adjusted, apparently because throwing children into a large peer group with little adult involvement in the social interactions is (surprise, surprise) not always such a good thing. In general, the later the child was put into school, the more confidence s/he had (or something like that -- my reference book is at home).

Dianne: I would think it would be possible to arrange lots of social interaction outside of school. I, at least, always got along fine with kids outside school, maybe because they tended to be my age (I skipped a grade, and entered first grade a couple of months after turning 5), and maybe because I wasn't bored to tears. (There's a classic report card of mine, from second grade, noting the unfortunate effects on my classroom demeanor of the fact that I had recently learned to whistle.)

kenB: If you have time, I'd be interested in getting the reference for the study you mentioned. If it's not convenient, don't worry, I'll get off my butt and do my own research.

hilzoy: I never thought of whistling...I was a slow child in some ways. My method of coping with boredom was to make sure I had a book in my desk and read when nothing exciting was going on. This pleased my teachers, since it meant that I was quiet, except when I took the book out while they were talking. I always used to wonder what the problem was: I only did it when they were reviewing stuff I already knew.

By the way, congrats to Sebastian for his fifth-place finish in the Poor Man's Golden Wanker Awards, behind such notables as Leon Kass and some freeper who thinks that Hillary Clinton is behind the Plame leak... ;)

fwiw, I don't think Seb belongs on that list.

I'll respectfully dissent, at least until Sebastian sets forth a coherent rationale for why Bush v. Gore and the dissent in Kelo are not more egregious examples of judicial activism than any he decries.

From The New Yorker: Doctor's office; overweight middle-aged guy in t-shirt & polka dotted boxers sitting on an examining table cigarette in one hand, martini in the other, three-day stubble on his chin. Doctor in lab coat holding chart says: "You need to relax a little less."

My wife blew it up to poster size and taped it to the wall above my computer.

Ha effing ha.

I used to get in trouble a lot for reading in class. (A lot.) I probably read in the range of 300-750 books in the 4th-8th grades, mostly fiction, and about half during the school day.

Also, the amount of social contact that the average homeschooler gets outside of their family is probably not nearly as low as some people think. Besides organizing with other homeschoolers for social events (like park meets, paintball, dances, sports and the like), there are interest clubs, music lessons, normal social contacts, and public venues like skating rinks and bowling. Plus, a lot of homeschoolers get into apprenticeships at some point or another.

Also, it's very important to remember that the "real world" is nothing like the world inside public schools. The closest analogue to the public school social environment is prison. A closed environment with forced attendence, externally imposed (and generally weak) motivation for whatever demands are placed on students' time and attention, and lots of people of very similar age. Very few jobs, if any, provide a similar situation. Public school kids have more adjusting to do to the college environment than homeschooling kids do (maybe less than elite private school kids), and probably about the same amount of adjustment to most work environments (and homeschoolers often have more varied work experience in their mid-to-late teen years).

Finally, a lot of people underestimate how quickly people respond when real responsibility is placed on them. Holding a job or having a child are really the only two common conditions that really require responsibility. I think there's a widespread overestimation of the amount and kind of preparation necessary to get children ready to be responsible. Schoolwork simply doesn't evoke the same reaction from children. They don't feel responsible for it in the same way. (Unless they're driven unhealthily and artificially by their parents.) Homeschooling, I would think, tends to be a bit better at raising up autonomous people, whereas much of public schooling does a lot to discourage any displays of autonomy from its students, as part of maintaining order in the halls.

These are all standard pro-homeschooling arguments that I haven't really reevaluated lately, so I don't stand by them as much as other statements I make.

Yes, I used to surrepticiously read literature in math and science class and in english, history and other humanities subjects, out came the baseball cards and the memorizing of batting averages.

It was an early, but formative preparation for threadjacking.

Which, I guess, is how I missed the lesson on spelling "surreptitious".


hilzoy, see here.


[Mr. Bill}

Oooh Nooo!!!

[/Mr. Bill}

Can You think of any other band that did Classic Rock - Funk - Punk - Country - Folk - Prog Rock - Novelty? The closest I can think of is The Kinks.

The Residents.
'nuff said.

OK, perhaps my declaration of 'nuff said' was a bit premature.

I'd also add Ed's Redeeming Qualities, The Frogs, They Might Be Giants and Captain Beefheart's Magic Band to the list.

Day 2 of rebuilding the desktop from scratch:
OS; connectivity; updates, drivers, and utilities;studying new mobo and processor; performance tweaks and enhancements.

It's the lady's computer; she can reload her own darn work programs and entertainment software.

(Shhh...don't nobody tell her I'm creeping up the cpu clock and core voltage a little every day)

taking this thread in a different direction --

wow, Maggie Gallagher was just bad at Volokh Conspiracy last week. Ending her week with that camel torture metaphor was the perfect touch. Sadistic, yet irrelevant (much like most arguments against same-sex marriage).

Cheney told Libby.


The book I mentioned is "Schooling at Home"; it's really just a compendium of articles by a variety of people sympathetic to home schooling (and it was published in 1990, so it's a little long in the tooth). The particular article I was remembering was written by Raymond Moore, drawing from his own work and that of Urie Bronfenbrenner.

Some interesting bits:

We found that socialization is not neutral. It is either positive or negative. Positive, or altruistic and principled, sociability is firmly linked with the family in both quantity and quality of self-confidence, self-respect, and self-worth.... the child who works, eats, plays, has his rest, and is read to daily more with his parents than with his peers senses that he or she is a part of the family corporation and as such, is needed, wanted, and depended upon....

Negative, narcissistic, me-first sociability is born from more peer-group association and fewer meaningful parental contacts and responsibility experiences in the home during the first eight to twelve years of life.... Children who do not yet understand the why of parental demands replace their parents with their peers as role models simply because they are with them more....According to Bronfenbrenner, they often lose self-respect, optimism, respect for parents, and even trust in their peers.

Prussia strikes me as such a preposterous locus for white supremicism. I just love it when sources are propagandized to the point where they're an emblem for something wholly unrelated.

Kind of like Virgil, the Renaissance, and the whole story behind Arcadia.

Who said anything at all about Prussia? "Prussian blue" is a pigment; it's got about as much to do with Prussia as Burma Shave has to do with Burma.

In the context of the white-supremacist band name, Prussian Blue refers to Prussia, doesn't it? I assume the thought process is Prussia --> Germany, specifically German militarism --> Nazis --> white supremacism. The reference to the pigment is just a pun from combining Prussia with blue eyes.

In the context of the white-supremacist band name, Prussian Blue refers to Prussia

They say it refers to Prussia, their eyes, and Prussian Blue pigment (in or out of context with gas chambers). Who knows what the real reason for the name was? Prussian Blue is in fact blue pigment.

We might as try and read significance into the naming-genesis of Ned's Atomic Dustbin or Stickmen With Ray Guns.

Hey, my public radio interview is online>here.

Slartibartfast wrote: it's got about as much to do with Prussia as Burma Shave has to do with Burma

Rilkefan on his site linked to a neat site devoted to pigments, where it was pointed out that Prussian Blue is the first "modern" pigment, meaning that it was created through modern chemistry rather than composed of natural bits. And of course Prussia was a great center of chemistry, so I think it very likely that Prussian Blue is a blue created in Prussia. Instead of say, cobalt blue, which is ground-up bits of cobalt suspended in linseed oil. (The latter pigment is mildly radioactive and very, very expensive. Pretty though.)

I don' think Prussian Blue was the first "modern" color, but that might have more to do with my notion of 'modern'. I think that honor goes to mauve. That was 1856. As Slart points out, Prussian Blue is also engineer's blue because it can be used to determine if a surface is completely flat. Prussian blue is an ('invented' color, but 1704 (sorry, but typepad flags this as comment spam. Also, Prussian Blue is not really a color, but a compound
though it's interesting that Prussian Blue is on the pigment page, but I can't find a page about mauve.

From a review of what looks to be a fun book, _Mauve: How One Man Invented a Color That Changed the World_
Within two years of Perkin's invention, it seemed that everyone was having a go at dyemaking. Industry had showed Victorian chemists what was possible, and now nothing seemed beyond achievement; an eighteen-year-old had created a new shade for a woman's shawl, and the full force of chemical ambition was unleashed. And of course there was much money to be made, and many fortunes to be lost, and a great amount of

Ah, memories (this from my long-past chemistry days): Prussian Blue is ferric ferrocyanide. Google gives us more (this page comes as raw text but it's really HTML. Seems to be a good article, though. Do a "save as" with a .html suffix and then open the file if you want formatting.)

Of course the "-cyanide" suffix indicates CN, and HCN is the well-known poisonous gas hydrogen cyanide.

From the link (and corroborated by a few others):

A German color maker or dyer in Berlin named Diesbach accidentally discovered the black-blue of Prussian blue in 1704, thinking that his pigment would be red since it was made from cattle blood. Prussian blue was the earliest of the modern synthetic colors. After its discovery in 1704, Diesbach spread the manufacturing process of his pigment on to his pupil, de Pierre, who in turn began manufacturing Prussian blue in Paris. Simon Eikenlenberg, a Dutch painter wrote on the knowledge of Prussian blue in his Notes on Paint and Painting in 1722.

As Slart points out, Prussian Blue is also engineer's blue because it can be used to determine if a surface is completely flat.

Not just that: it's useful in marking out gear-engagement patterns. When rebuilding a differential (usually these have complex, even hypoid gears), the gears must be re-aligned after the new bearings are inserted so that the gear contact area is centered on the gear teeth. Prussian Blue is commonly used for this process.

I have to note that my experience in auto mechanics stops right at this point. I've had a differential apart, but I've never put one back together. In other areas of mechanics, my experiences

What are the colors you use when you paint?
Said John D's grandson, Nelson.
Do you use any red in the heart of a saint?
If you do, is it terribly red, or faint?
Do you use any blue? Is it Prussian?

From a poem by E. B. White commemorating this little brouhaha.

Talking about cars, anybody selling one? I just got a repair estimate for the amount I originally paid for mine.

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