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October 18, 2005

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Hillary vs. Condi in 2008?

May you live in interesting times?

A nation that would elect Condi Rice for President is not a nation that deserves to be a democracy.

Brother. Maybe these officials are floating this crap so that if only Libby is indicted they can spin it as a victory.

We already elected GWB more-or-less. Electing one of his wives isn't likely to make it worse.

Freelunch, I believe the case could be made that Rice is even less qualified and competent than Bush himself. I just don't want to make it, because I would probably start crying in the middle, and I hate when that happens.

Actually, throwing all sanity out the window, how about his scenario:

The scandal does straight to the Oval Office, and Bush knows Fitzgerald is hot on the trail. We all know Cheny has neither the personality nor the constitution for a credible presidential bid, but Condi's star is still on the rise, and Bush needs to protect himself from impeachment. So Cheney goes back to work directly for the defense industry or energy industry, Bush puts Condi in the number 2 seat, and now the Democrats (whose votes would be needed, along with the so-called RINOs', to impeach) have to choose between letting Bush's high crimes slide and having the first black female President of the United States come from the GOP. This also works to shield Bush from any pangs of conscience on the part of anti-choice, mysogynist, or neoconfederate Republicans.

My less crazy thoughts are along the lines of Tim's, above.

I'm, personally, all for Rice for VP. She'll have to be the 2008 candidate then, and she's eminently beatable. Leaving aside considerations of how her race and gender will play into anything (which are really pretty hard to calculate) her demeanor is brittle under pressure.

an unmarried, pro-life, black woman would surely show us just how big that GOP tent really is.

if that was all there was to her, i'd consider giving her my vote. but, she's also a nincompoop, and cleek don't vote for no nincompoops.

No one could have imagined this.

This scandal is the gift that keeps on giving. I don't even like popcorn, but I feel like I shouldn't go blog-browsing without a gallon of it on my lap.

Probably not the right attitude to have, but I'm really enjoying this. I hope it's true.


Unless, of course, Rice is implicated in some way.

She was, after all, one of the WHIGs.

Edward, I hate you for getting that song stuck in my head. ;)

I hate myself for the same reason, TGB.

oops...forgot my underscore...{{{how embarrassing}}}

Good one, ral!

There is no way, no how, that Condi was not involved in the Plot Against Wilson.

Whether she can be nailed for it is another story.

But there is no way Ms. "Look! Mushroom Clouds!" wasn't up to her incompetent, lying neck in the Niger Forgery matter, and the Lies to Sell the War matter, and therefore - by logical conclusion - in the Wilson and Plame Delenda Est matter.

Of course, we must all realize, the likelihood is still somewhat considerable that there will be no indictments, and Rove will triumph. Not to toss a wet blanket over the whole thing, just a reality check.

At first glance, my inner orthodox teenaged punk felt obligated to ridicule your utilization of Fleetwood Mac.

But then my inner reconstructed late-twenty-something punk (who kinda looks like Greil Marcus minus the glasses) reminded me that Tusk, the followup to Rumours, is probably more 'punk' than anything the Clash (or even the mighty Crass) ever put out.

So I'll the corporate cocaine-rock reference slide just this once, Edward (just don't let me catch you using Frampton Comes Alive in a post any time soon.)


Edward was also alluding to Bill Clinton's campaign song.

Given her performance as Sec of State, I have to question the assertion that she's less competent than Bush.

Hasn't Dr. Rice stated that she doesn't want to run for public office?

Besides, regardless of her qualifications (and I do not believe she would do well as President, just as I don't think that she has done well representing the country in her positions for this Administration), three years as Bush's VP coulnd't be good for her political reputation at this point. Unless there's some unbelievable turnaround in, well, every front in the GOP's War on Reality, "Four More Years" isn't going to do well for her on the campaign trail.

It's a nice potential opportunity for the GOP (well, it would be, for a better qualified candidate), but I don't think it's going to happen. I think it's an interesting attempt at deflection - give the public and pundits (and us) something else to look at besides the guys in black lining up to (maybe) on the White House door.

CS

Tim: Brother. Maybe these officials are floating this crap so that if only Libby is indicted they can spin it as a victory.

That's the first sensible theory I've heard all week.

Edward: oops...forgot my underscore...{{{how embarrassing}}}

Good lord, man! You're... naked!

If Hannah really flipped, the liklihood of indictments shot through the roof.

From the rumors flying today -- some apparently fanned by Fitzgerald himself -- I would say say Fitzgerald is making it very clear that he's got the goods (letting it be known Hannah flipped) and that the time for making deals runs out VERY soon.

Masterful timing, if that's the case. Get Washington stirred up (talk of indictments by tomorrow) and potential targets nervous (What does he know?) -- let simmer for 24 hours -- then leak that one has already flipped on his buddies. That gives the potential targets less than 24 hours to decide whether to roll the dice --- without giving them enough time to coordinate, or find out who else flipped....or who else is planning to flip.

The White House has to be in a panic. They've never done well with things they don't control.

Anderson

Edward was also alluding to Bill Clinton's campaign song.

I figured as much...but thinking too much about then good ol' days when reality still held dominance is liable to drive me to drinking, and I'll be damned if my liver develops cirrhosis on account of George W. Bush (that role will likely be fufilled by my future children.)

Speaking of the Big Dog, he gave a speech at a conference in my hometown (London, ON CA) yesterday. The subject: Canada/US relations. I was unfortunately unable to attend due to prior committments (ie, I neglected to buy tickets back in August when they went on sale - and sold out.)


matttbaastard: have some mercy on us antiquated elderly people, who were actually in high school when Fleetwood Mac was big, and thus got to hear them when they were a normal band, not a cliche. Heard in that way, Rumours was a great album, and it was great as the soundtrack to high school dances.

Latest rumor: Fitzgerald's looking at 22 names. Yikes. Hope the country doesn't need a focussed admin in the immediate future.

and it was great as the soundtrack to high school dances.
And, judging by the number of 20-something women I know named 'Rhiannon'*, a great soundtrack to what went on after the highschool dance.

If the boogie-van is a-rockin'...


*ok, I only know one, but her parents named her after the song after it served as the background to her conception

matttbaastard: have some mercy on us antiquated elderly people, who were actually in high school when Fleetwood Mac was big, and thus got to hear them when they were a normal band, not a cliche.

And some of us were well out of high school, slamdancing to the Clash and The Ramones, and regarded Fleetwood Mac as yuppie easy-listening piffle.

Sorry, sorry, threadjack.

Okay, lets not turn another perfectly good political thread into a discussion of '70's music.

(And I find that Fleetwood Mac is great for dislodging more malevolent earworms, though the above isn't one of the songs I'd pick for that purpose.)

I'll believe it when I see it.

"Given her performance as Sec of State, I have to question the assertion that she's less competent than Bush."

Well, she has had an easier job, so far, than Powell did. She hasn't had any wars launched on her watch.

mattbastard,

The title was meant to allude to the happier days when our President was competent, tie in the title of the album which is what the thread is all about, and reference the fact that many folks think indictments might come as early as tomorrow. Over on Kos, they're calling it Fitzmas. It certainly will be a let down if there's nothing to indict anyone for. Of course, I mean that in the nicest, they're all innocent until proven guilty sort of way ;-p

As someone who has remained blissfully ignorant about most Fleetwood Mac-related matters, I have to ask: What the hell is hanging from that guy's crotch?

Oh, and I'm so very, very ready for Fitzgerald to conclude his investigations and start giving press conferences already. The suspense is killing me.

And some of us were well out of high school, slamdancing to the Clash and The Ramones, and regarded Fleetwood Mac as yuppie easy-listening piffle.

And some of us were . . . (counting) . . . 8 years old in 1977, but today have a tent big enough to accommodate both the Mac and the Clash, as they were different bands for different purposes. Rumours and London Calling are among that rare class of albums that contain not a dud from front to back. (Along with the first album from the Cars and A Hard Day's Night.)

"It certainly will be a let down if there's nothing to indict anyone for."

I'll be standing in the long line at the Golden Gate.

Speaking of nothing coming of this, John Tierney has replaced David Brooks in my esteem as most annoying hack on the NYT payroll. I'd link to it, but for incomprehensible reasons the Times think his drivel's worthy paying to read online.

He's got the balls to argue that because many Democrats didn't think Clinton's perjury about an affair didn't justify forcing him out of office, we should all turn to other things wrt the Plame case. He has to assert, without proof, that the original suspected crime (outing a covert agent) is groundless, and that the lesser crime of sharing classified information is all they've got, to get there, but that didn't stop him.

On the other hand, there does seem to be a widely held opinion among pundits and reporters that because they work so hard to receive classified information themselves sometimes that there's nothing morally wrong with it being handed out.

The world approaches Peak Pony.

Rumours and London Calling are among that rare class of albums that contain not a dud from front to back. (Along with the first album from the Cars and A Hard Day's Night.)

I'd have to add Discipline to that short list. Perhaps even Close to the Edge, even though it only has three songs. Rumours may not have any duds, but like (any HTML codes for those four Led Zep symbols?) Classic Rock radio has rendered actually listening to the album superfluous.

So, what's a good Fitzmas soundtrack playlist to load up?

Peter Green the best Fleetwood Mac;Danny Kirwan a distant second. FW and Rumours etc great stuff; but I can't listen to songs 1001 times.

via Atrios via Larry Johnson: 22 possible indictments;Hadley a lock. Like Katherine, I will believe it when I see it, but I can almost guarantee 22 instant pardons. I don't see Bush letting the West Wing go away.

"Instant pardons gonna get you?"

Rumours was a great album

still is. i gave it #13 on my all-time-favorite list.

"Instant pardons gonna get you?"

hah!

Instant pardon's gonna get you
Gonna look you right in the face

A nation that would elect Condi Rice for President is not a nation that deserves to be a democracy.

We already elected GWB more-or-less. Electing one of his wives isn't likely to make it worse.

I believe the case could be made that Rice is even less qualified and competent than Bush himself.

if that was all there was to her, i'd consider giving her my vote. but, she's also a nincompoop, and cleek don't vote for no nincompoops.

Given her performance as Sec of State, I have to question the assertion that she's less competent than Bush.

Man it is so cool to be on a web site where everybody is so smart they can put down Condi as being dumb. In my fantasy world, y'all would be put in a room with her and take a simple test - there would be no math, so don't worry about that, and no Russian either :)

Oh, I personally liked the "Bare Trees" / "Future Games" lineup of Fleetwood, McVie, McVie, Kirwan, and Welch.

It is so cool to be on a web site where people can make drive-by comments with no actual relevancy to the topic under discussion by excerpting random sentences and pretending they occurred in a vacuum.

In case that was too oblique: none of us here are auditioning to be veep or secstate. That doesn't prevent us from being able to venture an opinion--informed by a demonstrated history of dishonesty and incompetence on the public record--that Rice has no place being either.

drive-by comments with no actual relevancy to the topic under discussion

the topic was ROMOURS for goodness sake! Technically I could have got away with suggesting that Condi is going to play piano on a Harry Connick Jr. album, and still be more on-topic than I usually am.

Or maybe the topic was Rumours, I'm not sure.

Discipline.
Preview every now and then.

Man it is so cool to be on a web site where everybody is so smart they can put down Condi as being dumb

like Forest's momma used to say: stupid is as stupid does

Okay, lets not turn another perfectly good political thread into a discussion of '70's music.

People who feel so inclined can head over to M. Berube's site for a rowsing discussion of '70's music.

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