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September 08, 2005

Comments

"Real and rational is that they let it [dying babies] happen. On National TV. Think about it."

Hell,I haven't been able sleep for years. Sorry after this I will go away. Assume for the sake of argument that Rumsfeld and Rove et al aren't idiots, that somebody with weight might have been watching TV on Monday or Tuesday and saw a mess. And let it go.

1) They don't care about black people. Maybe true, but not the point.
2) Thullen's "destroy the gov't" okay, bt still not good enough.

Who or what in modern American political history would not totally completely public relations freak out over a baby dying of thirst on National TV, Geraldo crying at the sight? So:

3) They are saying: "We can do this. We can get away with it. You can not stop us or hurt us. You cowards will even make our excuses for us, rather than actually confronting us."

Reichstag Fire.

I believe it's important to assign blame for the reasons you've stated above. My concern is that due to the enormous complexity of this situation I question our ability to accurately assign blame at this time. And I have a feeling that as time goes by people on both sides will feel regret for assigning particular blame to certain groups that didn't deserve it. It's a difficult balance though. Because not criticizing at this time is also frought with problems as you've mentioned. So where do we err?

I wrote this, in a post I entitled "The Blame Game," at 12:35 p.m., (which is to say, almost exactly 11 hours ago), presciently getting my comments in in advance. (I've addressed the general issue in other posts. Here, for instance, modifying a comment I made on this blog.

So where do we err?

We err on the side of asking the questions that are necessary to unearth the facts.

hilzoy,

Your efforts are really appreciated. This is a great post. Part of finding out what went wrong is to stop things that may currently still be going wrong, identifying policies that need to change immediately and in essence, have someone start ruling by fiat in FEMA. Someone smart enough to master the logistics, i.e. someone with experience. If you have incompetant people running the show, they will continue to make mistakes and essentially kill people.

The entire country has been demoralized by these atrocious events, and hundreds of thousands displaced and traumatized in addition to those killed.

Gary: that's somewhat eerie. I often do read your blog, but not since that came up.

I'm with Catsy: we err on the side of asking questions and weighing the facts.

I have written before, and no doubt will again: thank God for objective reality. Also for hilzoy.

[i]We err on the side of asking the questions that are necessary to unearth the facts.[/i]

I'm all for asking questions. I'm a bit uncomfortable though with making categorical accusations that might turn out later to be incorrect as new info is revealed down the line. And unfortunately, when that info is revealed, people's focus on Katrina will have passed and I'm worried the rebuttal will not get as much attention as the accusation.

I will say though that most of the accusations on this board I've agreed with.

Jeff: I am too. I mean: it's exactly because figuring out what went wrong is so important that mistakenly deciding that the culprit was one person when in fact it was someone (or something) altogether is such a disaster. It lets you think you've solved the problem when you haven't at all; and then the next time disaster strikes, you're unprepared. And of course it can also ruin someone's life.

That said, I think there are also risks on the other side. If you hold back from reaching any conclusions about what needs to be done unless you're completely certain, you'll never act at all.

In this case, at least, there are a few obvious things that I think we can tell even at this point. FEMA seems to have been terribly run -- besides the obvious evidence of this, a lot of the stories I've read about them have the feel of an agency full of people who genuinely don't know what they're supposed to be doing, and are terrified of making a mistake. This is, in my experience, always a sign of bad management.

Appointing Brown to be head of FEMA is an action by Bush that I find unforgivable. I mean: there are certain jobs you just do not give to people without any discernible qualifications.

I also think we really need to look at evacuation policies for people without cars. The Superdome was better than nothing, but better still would have been to evacuate people out of NO entirely. But where would they go? Who would put them up? Who would pay for it? I think this needs to involve federal assistance, to pool the risk, so that we don't have every city saving up enough money to evacuate their indigent and disabled populations if necessary. This is, I think, a task for Congress.

Finally, I think too many people vote for Presidents without really asking themselves: is there any reason to think this person would be actually good at the work of being President? We are basically voting to elect the CEO of a very large organization, and the qualities that make someone good at that are not the qualities a lot of people look for in a President. I think that really has to change.

But clearly there will be a lot of lessons to come.

"I think that really has to change."

I agree, but the cynic in me, or the pessimist, or the realist, or whomever these damn people who have their interminable little conversations in my head are, says "good luck with that."

I'm not optimistic about significant change on this in the next couple of Presidential cycles, at least. Of course, one never knows what events will bring.

Don't mind me, I am sleep-commenting. Last one, I promise, and nothing incendiary.

Watch Yglesias. I have noticed TAPPED has been quite restrained and light in coverage of Katrina, as has Matthew. Ezra Klein, about to be a TAP intern, started that way, and was criticized for ignoring the big story. He has since increased his Katrina posting.

Hmmm. I have seen TAP go light on stories before, never mind when (I avoid sensation). Yglesias has mentors, colleagues. I like the hell out of Harold Meyerson. I worship the ground Bob Kuttner walks on. Kuttner is one grizzled 60s veteran who has never given an inch or sold out or compromised, yet has not been dismissed as a wingnut or moonbat or irrelevant. He has seen it all. If the word at TAP is to be maximally cautious on Katrina stories, it means we are in very serious territory indeed.

Me, I am a labile moonbat. Forgive, if you can't ignore. I wish the valiums were more than fives. One more. 500 channels and no "Predator".

Jacob Weisberg argues the moderate case for a political aspect to the response from the top of the Administration. It's not a bad case.

Wait around for months and I have no doubt that by the time Frist and Delay are done, the Katrina reconstruction bill passed will include an estate tax repeal, Social Security private accounts, and free ponies for all Halliburton executives. These people are so shameless that you must start early.

the next elections are still over a year away. and in the coming months, the GOP version of the Song of Katrina ("The Dems Did It / Them Dems Did It !") will have been played so many times, through a combination of payola and sheer bad taste on the part of DJs, that only introverted internet wierdos will even know how the original went. when they run the 2005 year in review, it'll be the GOP version playing in the background, for the 10 second montage. trying to get anyone to listen to the original Song of Katrina will be like trying to get people to listen to the original Handy Man - people will run away wondering why would you know about it, and why would you want to listen ?

Everyone, even Bush, knows why accountability is important.

The reason Bush & Co. don't care about accountability is because it gets in the way of the President's and his followers' agenda. As a result, they will cling to any excuse for Bush's ____ ups as long as they get what they want. Logic will never work on these people.

The sick part is Bush's apologists probably actually believe the President bears little or no responsibility for the gawd awful response to Katrina.

To the Bush apologists I say, enjoy your tax cuts, your pro-life judges, your gay marriage bans, your Intelligent Design in science class, your war in Iraq, your 10 commandments in the court house because you have sold your souls for them.

Between the detailed, lengthy self-reflection, Hilzoy, and the steady stream of eloquent, perfectly phrased posts, where does a person find the time to get good on the guitar? ;)

I tried self-reflection once, but the image looked too much like Quasimodo, so I screamed and climbed into the bell-tower to spy on the Maureen O'Haras below.

I'm sure the lesson the administration learned from the Abu Ghraib, torture memos, Guantanamo, extraordinary rendition, etc., is not that such things are bad, but that they need to be more careful containing the information about them.

People will not believe unless there are pictures, therefore there must be no pictures, therefore the press blackout.

Thank you for the mention of goverment as a way to undertake "collective action." It's an important part of acknowledging the concomitant idea of those who choose their governments possessing collective responsibility for the actions taken in their [our] name.

Quiddity's simple timeline - plus a map discussed in a recent thread.

Why should we believe that GWB and/or his admirers will assign blame to anyone but members of the opposing party? GWB promised to fire whomever leaked the identity of Valerie Plame. We now know who leaked the name. GWB did not fire him. Why should we believe him now?

Why should we believe him now?

never assume he gives a fnck what his opponents think ; he only needs to please his base and disgust the middle.

I got this via Kevin Drum:

The Republican National Committee sent allies a list of "talking points," including: "It's disappointing that while President Bush has focused his administration's entire efforts towards saving lives and helping the victims of Katrina, there are those who are using this tragedy to score cheap political points." cite
So, well, business as usual. Forget what actually happened: by December 5th, criticizing federal disaster relief for New Orleans will be "scoring cheap political points".

okay, so i'm not much of a tv watcher, but ya'll are saying that there was film footage of an infant dying of thirst?? what (fully-fed, fully-hydrated) human being (with a helicopter, van, whatever) can hold a camera when there is a baby dying in front of him/her? i'm just curious... (and i totally admit to not having watched the actual footage, so please enlighten me if i've missed something here.)

i know this post is about blaming politicians, etc., but i also have to ask what would have happened if the media stopped carrying cameras and started carrying water. my "need" to know does not trump anyone's need to eat.

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