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October 11, 2004

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I miss him too. He was always quick with a joke or an inverted duality.

I feel that I should have an opinion of Derrida, being an English lit major and all - but my college's English department hunted down deconstructionalists and put their heads up on pikes as a warning to the next ten generations that some theories are promulgated at too high a price, so I apparently missed out on all the fun.

Whaddya get when you cross a deconstructionist with a mafioso?

A tough guy making an offer you cain't understand.

Sorry, I stole this from a dude I don't like, so blame him if it ain't funny:)

By "deconstructing" the works of those studied by the academics standing between them and their desired positions, these youthful rebels didn't have to do the hard work of actually disproving their theories...they could merely mock them into irrelevance.

Something about this seems awfully familiar...

Maybe I should just automatically use that name when posting something silly and/or irrelevant. But then I would never get to use this one.

my college's English department hunted down deconstructionalists and put their heads up on pikes as a warning to the next ten generations that some theories are promulgated at too high a price

that's an awesome visual...somethings really are best handled with brute force, I guess.

My favorite imagery was derived from something you said, Edward. Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series (which I'm currently re-reading) has a character attempting to use magic to accomplish the permanent end to all magic. Not being any more familiar with Derrida's work than I absolutely have to be, it looks like he's attempted a the same sort of thing with rhetoric.

But for all I know, all he's done is forged out a sort of Gödelean impasse.

Not being any more familiar with Derrida's work than I absolutely have to be, it looks like he's attempted a the same sort of thing with rhetoric.

But for all I know, all he's done is forged out a sort of Gödelean impasse.

An impasse of some sort, surely. I can't blame him really...it was inevitable, deconstruction, and if he saw it, why not say it?

So much of the response is criticizable as merely pulling back into one's shell. It's understandable, but that doesn't make it admirable.

The application of the method, though, that's ripe for attack in most cases, I'd say. But to what end?

It's so confusing...Giblets?? Help us!

Moe: it wasn't fun at all. I am sorry he died, and for his the loss to his friends and relations, but very little of that has much to do with deconstruction. Though he personally was funnier than many of his followers, who managed to write all sorts of utterly humorless discourses on irony.

My sense always was that reading Derrida could be immensely liberating at a particular stage in one's life -- the one where the weight of all those intellectual fathers was getting to be too great -- but that the people who then decided to make a career out of developing those ideas were almost invariably making a big, big mistake. It has had damaging effects in a lot of humanities disciplines -- effects that are now fading. And I know less about the arts than Edward, of course, but my sense is that there the reception of Derrida and the other 'theorists' has been a full-blown catastrophe.

The problem with deconstructionists in general is that they had some inkling of Zen, but were hung up on the western academic notion of trying to make a career out of it.

"The problem with deconstructionists in general is that they had some inkling of Zen, but were hung up on the western academic notion of trying to make a career out of it."

Nice one. Your own, I presume?

And I know less about the arts than Edward, of course, but my sense is that there the reception of Derrida and the other 'theorists' has been a full-blown catastrophe.

I think they're recovering as well, although, because it's a "visual" discipline, the best artists are not always so quick with textual explanations or defenses. Deconstruction was like a virus from another planet...their immune systems were not at all prepared for it is my guess.

Yes, but no rights reserved.

Dogen would have found phallogocentrism hilarious.

Edward: For a while back in the late 80s, which I suspect was during the catastrophe, I was regularly reading art magazines, and my sense was that visual artists were particularly vulnerable to it in part because they are not necessarily verbal people. (I mean, some are, of course, but they don't need to be.) I remember an installation involving TVs set in trees, which was supposed to deconstruct the duality between technology and nature; a canvas with some words about the direction we read which was painted backwards, and which was supposed to be an interesting deconstruction of its meaning, and in general an awful lot of stuff about which I thought: this could just as well have been written down in prose, for all its visual power; but in prose its inanity would have been obvious. And then all that stuff involving the appropriation or misappropriation of works of art from previous eras (the moment when, as far as I was concerned, Cindy Sherman's career imploded). I hope it's getting better.

correction -- didn't mean her career as in 'is she a big deal in the art world?', about which I know nothing, but: is she doing good work?

I remember an installation involving TVs set in trees

Ooooo....painful.

That's a good summary hilzoy and dead on in my opinion with regards to why it was so disastrous among visual artists. Cindy's doing quite well, still, unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it [i.e., commercially vs. conceptually]).

Moreover, there's a sense returning to the art world that if your work requires accompanying text, it's a failure as visual art, and I see that the nail in deconstruction coffin wrt visual art. I also subscribe wholly to that notion.

From the gallery POV, however, what we're seeing among collectors is a somewhat disappointing, obvious relief that they can once again collect accesible representational work (which now has attractive non-ironic, but not too difficult, "concepts" excusing the fact it looks just like representational work that was supposedly killed by modernism...again, it's all so confusing these days).

Moreover, there's a sense returning to the art world that if your work requires accompanying text, it's a failure as visual art, and I see that the nail in deconstruction coffin wrt visual art. I also subscribe wholly to that notion.

This is the best news I've read all day.

" representational work that was supposedly killed by modernism"

Don't tell my favorite living artist, Mark Ryden!

Or is he not representational because the figures are caricatures? I'm not up on The Rules these days.

Or is he not representational because the figures are caricatures? I'm not up on The Rules these days.

Definitely representational, although more than a little twisted...fun work.

Your favorite artist is safe from the critque wrt to modernism, but not wrt to illustration vs. "fine art" I'm afraid. The lines are blurring there, as well, but purists are still holding the fort on keeping the Norman Rockwell types at bay....Mark Ryden unfortunately has more in common with Rockwell than, say, John Currin to most NYC art world types, I'd venture...although, I can't imagine anyone who wouldn't want one of those...they're delightful

awful snobbery in all that, I realize...but that's where the dialog rests right now.

Ah, every context has its Whigs and Tories.

S'alright. To quote that fine lyricist Zach de la Rocha of Rage Against the Machine, Ryden doesn't need a key. He'll break in.

So Edward: which interesting yet insufficiently well-known artists should I be checking out? (General features of my taste: never saw the point of getting away from representational art, since the idea that it had somehow been "exhausted" always struck me as ludicrous, but don't demand that art be representational either (how could anyone not love Rothko?); like things that are genuinely powerful, but things that are just trying for depth or power merely annoy me (particularly allergic to pseudo-mythic things and irksome deconstruction stuff as in the examples above); tend to like color (paintings that are e.g. all brown, black and white tend to bore me unless they're by Rembrandt) (engravings etc. are fine, though); on inspection, unfortunately, don't like Ryden (sorry, sidereal); artists trying to be cute, or for that matter trying too visibly to be anything, bug me (I would rather think: of course, it has to be that way); don't mind being unsettled as long as it's worth it and the artist isn't just doing it for its own sake.) Any suggestions?

which interesting yet insufficiently well-known artists should I be checking out?

two sure bets (won't be affordable at all in 5 years) and I'm being generous, neither is one of my artists.

representational:
Dana Shutz

abstract:
Dan Zeller

This list of up and coming galleries offers a good starting place to try and hedge your bets if you're hoping to discover someone before they're too big (and, shamefully, yes, my gallery is somewhere in that list...I won't go so far into self-promotion to tell you which one though):

Edward, big props for recommending Zeller!
and just one word in favor of Derrida--although I could go on--the oh-so-clever-aside school of lecturing is much more common and acceptable in France than is has ever been in the Anglo-Saxon "plain style" model. That's one of the reasons it sounds particularly evasive when it comes from an American admirer of Continental philosophy.

You know, as I was typing my last post, I thought: why on earth didn't I think of asking that question sooner? I love art. I really, really love art. That's why I was reading all those art magazines in the late 80s. That's also why I stopped bothering at a certain point: wading through all the horrible art was much worse than wading through bad anything else (although bad metaphysics is right up there.) And there was so much of it. And the entire world of art seemed to have been possessed by an evil spirit who hated art. It was so awful. At a certain point I thought: surely they must have recovered by now; but I had no idea where to start looking around.

All this by way of saying, thanks.

Although I'm not sure about Schutz. I think it's really good work painted for someone who isn't me, if you see what I mean. I really like Zeller, though. -- Does stuff like this sell for zillions of dollars?

Although I'm not sure about Schutz. I think it's really good work painted for someone who isn't me, if you see what I mean.

Totally understand. She is arguably the very "hottest" young artist around though (whatever that's worth). Her work probably goes for $20,000 to $50,000 a canvas now...or soon will.

I really like Zeller, though. -- Does stuff like this sell for zillions of dollars?

Dan's work is more affordable (I got mine for a steal a few years ago...advantage of doing lots of studio visits), but I believe there's a waiting list. He too will be about $20,000 in 3 to 4 years, I'd imagine, if not sooner.

About art in general...most of it totally sucks...no question. A century can only promote so many "geniuses" though, so you should always, always, always only buy work you like. If it appreciates, that's gravy...but regardless you'll have works you want around.

"And the entire world of art seemed to have been possessed by an evil spirit who hated art. It was so awful."

I feel that way about much of 'fine' modern music in the late 20th century. Things are getting interesting again from a music-listeners perspective again (finally).

Edward: there's a large group of things about which I think: I won't bother trying to purchase an X as an investment; it would take too much time to learn enough. And then a much smaller subset about which I think: it's true that really learning about X would take too much time, but that's not really the issue, since time spent looking at various Xs is fun. It's that buying Xs as investments would be sort of like choosing a lover on the grounds that he will over time appreciate in value: maybe so, but it sort of misses the point. Houses and art are the two main items in this latter group.

I feel that way about much of 'fine' modern music in the late 20th century. Things are getting interesting again from a music-listeners perspective again (finally).

There's actually a huge body of really cool choral literature that's been completely overlooked in that genre that my conductor's been putting us through. Leighton, Menotti, Lauridsen, DeBlasio, Baksa, Dinerstein, Badings, Warlock... there's a *ton* of great stuff that no-one ever hears, which is a righteous shame because it is wonderful.

[I assume the same is probably true of orchestral music, but I'm not nearly as up on that.]

I want a choir singing Lauridsen at my wedding. That stuff'll melt your heart like butter on a griddle, and with results just as tasty.

Fun fact: Lauridsen's nickname is apparently "Skip".

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