« For examples . . . . | Main | Trust; no verification needed. »

August 05, 2004

Comments

Cool! My first-ever attempt to create a link without a template actually worked!

But I screwed up the title.....
I knew it would be something.

Hilzoy wrote:

Academics can be seduced, and there aren't many things as seductive as being given access to an entire world which will provide you with money, power, prestige, and popularity but only so long as you espouse a particular set of views.

Such as a university for example.

What bothers me is the fact that there are economists whose political allegiances are bought and paid for, and who have basically decided to become agents of a particular party, and that this fact is not clearly noted when they pronounce on various issues.

Really now, evidence please.

I only clicked on because I thought it odd you would create an untitled open thread so soon into your tenure.
I'll actually read it in the morning though because it's way past my bedtime.

Thorley: universities do not make your job contingent on your holding any particular set of views. That's the whole point of the tenure system: get tenure and you can say anting you want and not be fired for it. Nor, with a few exceptions (most recently in some lit departments, but that's on the wane) do they make prestige or popularity depend on it either. And they do not have access to the kind of power that the political think tanks can provide.

Such as a university for example.

Hahahahahaha... Yeah, I know *tons* of academics who are making bank for their work. And the power! You wouldn't believe the power they wield!

You wouldn't believe the power they wield!

As I like to remind my father (an economics professor): The battles are so vicious because the stakes are so small.

Good post, Hilzoy.

As I like to remind my father (an economics professor): The battles are so vicious because the stakes are so small.

I knew that was going to make an appearance in this thread sooner or later...

It's a cliche for a reason, ya know.

Thorley: universities do not make your job contingent on your holding any particular set of views.

Ooooh . . . to quote Rev. Lovejoy, "Short answer, 'Yes with an if,' long answer, 'no with a but.'" I have no direct experience here -- although I have heard the experience of friends who work in education -- but Erin O'Connor's blog has countless stories of exactly that: Universities making a set of beliefs a contingency for even getting the job, and even more a contingency for getting on the tenure track.

(Obviously this tends to apply more to, say, the humanities or the social sciences than it does physics.)

Well, there are plenty of economists who look at the evidence with a fair degree of neutrality. Most of them come to conclusions that are somewhere along the lines of late 1990's Clinton--modest regulation, government fiscal responsibility, and free trade make a healthy economy.

And I would trust Cato or Heritage more if they ever funded a study and came to a conclusion that was *not* part of their pre-held set of beliefs.

I didn't mean to be picking on economists; just to use them as an example. And I agree that lots of them are fair; in fact, one of the problems I have with the failure to distinguish between those who are employed by an explicitly ideological group and those who are not is that mainstream economists, when deployed against people from e.g. the Cato Institute on TV, strike non-economists as the liberal counterparts to the Cato people when they are not.

I should also say that I am opposed to the confusion between scholars who have decided to become operatives and scholars who have not regardless of which side they become operatives on. The examples I use are from the right because the right has a much more developed ideological infrastructure, not because I don't think it's just as bad when it comes from the left.

"I didn't mean to be picking on economists; just to use them as an example."

I'd also note that there has been a remarkable convergence of opinion in economics in the past twenty years. cf. http://www.crookedtimber.org/archives/002174.html

Universities making a set of beliefs a contingency for even getting the job, and even more a contingency for getting on the tenure track.

Speaking only from my own experiences here -- well, mine and my dad's -- ideological litmus tests are vanishingly rare compared to the usual political ass-kissery required to maneuver through any crowded bureacratic situation (especially one in which, yes, the stakes are so small). The usual caveat is, of course, that this is highly, highly dependent on the particular discipline and locale in which one is pursuing a career.

Yo anarch -- what discipline are you in?

Phil -- I checked the website, but couldn't find any (admittedly, I only went back through May.) One or two idiotically applied speech codes, which is equally offensive, but a different matter. In any case, the difference is: most universities, as a matter of policy, do not make ideology the basis for hiring and promotion, but as in any human endeavor, they sometimes screw up. ("Most" universities because I don't know what the situation is at, say, Bob Jones.) Ideologically based think tanks do, and no doubt they screw up occasionally as well and let some centrist stay on the payroll.

Yo anarch -- what discipline are you in?

My dad's just retired from around 30 years as a Professor of History (specializing in South-East Asia in general, the Philippines in particular) and, in the way of true academics, is now more productive than ever. I'm a grad student in mathematics -- should be ABD in a few weeks -- and I've been querying a lot of my friends who've gone traipsing out into the job market. I also hang out with grad students from a wide variety of disciplines (history, literature, philosophy, psychology &c), so my unofficial sampling pool is somewhat broader than my otherwise-cloistered discipline might imply.

[I thought I might as well save time and answer the larger question too :)]

The comments to this entry are closed.