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March 23, 2004

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Professional. Excellent and enlightening.

I can't see into Wolfowitz or Woolsey's hearts to know whether they were sincere or simply using Mylroie. My guess is that they always publicly granted her credibility(I don't) , and I certainly have always respected their intelligence. I think the people who blow off the Iraq speculation in Sept 2001 are being a little unfair. It wasn't that clear.

But I have opinions. You have evidence.

Katherine get the book. Read pages 30 and 31. I takes all of six paragraphs for the "wandering" to arrive at going after the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Given people were trying to figure out just what the hell was going on? Less than 24 hours seems like a reasonable time to get to the right answer.

Read the book, not the press reports.

That doesn't surprise me, and that's what the Guardian piece I first linked to got wrong--after the early hours it wasn't whether to go after Iraq instead of Afghanistan, but whether to go after Iraq in addition to Afghanistan, and how to allocate resources between the two.

I didn't get this when I wrote the first post, but I thought the update cleared that up. I should probably edit it to be more explicit. For now, though--bedtime.

I wonder how many people there are left who don't accept the decision to go into Iraq was at least almost immediate after Sept. 11... several right-wingers now do, although they say that the administration believed it was necessary as part of the broader strategy against terrorism.

This is a reasonable/reasoned argument; I think anyone who denies Iraq was in the sights so soon is in serious danger of losing credibility.

spc67 wrote:

Katherine get the book. Read pages 30 and 31. I takes all of six paragraphs for the "wandering" to arrive at going after the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Given people were trying to figure out just what the hell was going on? Less than 24 hours seems like a reasonable time to get to the right answer.

Agreed, there does not appear to be any constructive purpose in trying to second-guess every conversation had after 9/11 among the POTUS’ advisors in which one would expect people to ask questions and make suggestions some of which would inevitably be either rejected or put on the back burner.

This seems to be more of a fishing expedition in the hopes of “shudder” finding out what we all already know – that the policy of the US government since 1998 was to support regime change in Iraq, that when the Bush administration took office the bipartisan and global consensus based on the best available intelligence at the time was that Iraq still had and was trying to restart its WMD programs contrary to the terms of the 1991 cease-fire agreement, that containment was a mixed-bag at best (the UN got its graft, Saddam got his palaces, and the Iraqi people got starvation), and that Iraq was a known sponsor and harborer of terrorism (even with religious groups) which was complicit in the earlier attacks on the WTC.

Shocking that someone might have thought at the time (even though the administration never really made the claim) that Iraq might have been involved in 9/11. Even more shocking that after 9/11 the paradigm changed and they may have come to the conclusion that something needed to be done about Iraq before rather than after another attack.

there does not appear to be any constructive purpose in trying to second-guess every conversation had after 9/11 among the POTUS’ advisors

hmmm...I'll remind you of that the next time you second guess the Prime Minister elect of Spain, Thorley.

The White House defenses against Clarke grow weaker by the minute, depite their best efforts:

From Marshall, where there's a transcript of this yesterday's gaggle,

McCLELLAN: [Clarke] was involved in our counterterrorism efforts up until October 9th of 2001, when that position was separated, something that he actually suggested, as well.

Doesn't this counter any "sour grapes" accusations that Clarke was somehow miffed that he had been demoted?

As to the pre-9/11 stuff, and the Fox transcript that someone is probably bring up as I type this:

this Time Magazine article is the best account I've found of the strategy towards Al Qaeda from late 2000 to September 10, 2001.

It's interesting. You could use it to support both Clarke's carefully worded defense of Bush when he still worked for the White House, and the angry criticisms in his recent interviews (and book, but I haven't gotten a chance to look at that yet). It's all about what you choose to emphasize.

One thing that seems beyond dispute is that Clarke's at the center of things--"out of the loop" indeed.

This...oh, this just kills me. This just reminded me of Jesurgislac:

One thing that struck me was Clarke's claim to being a mind reader. Okay, Clarke didn't claim to actually be able to read minds; no Clarke simply implied quite strongly that he could tell what a person was thinking (with a fairly high degree of accuracy) by looking at ones face.


While hammering Condoleezza Rice as completely incompetent Clarke claims in his book that when he warned Rice in early 2001 about the threat from al-Qaeda she appeared to never have heard of the terrorist organization. Clarke writes, “Her facial expression gave me the impression that she had never heard the term before."--link

Well thanks to the indefatigable Henry Hanks we now know this is quite possibly another lie on Clarke's part.


On Oct. 4, 2000, Condoleezza Rice was asked by WJR radio host David Newman what a Bush administration would do about the Osama threat... Rice spoke at length about the threat, and what needed to be done to deal with it... She said that we don't want to wake up one day and find that Osama has been successful on our own territory.

Ooopsie. Of course, this is just simple Clarke bashing according some of the more dimwitted journalists. Never mind that it actually contradicts one of Clarke's claims. Nevermind that it now appears Clarke is engaging in the very same behavior that these journalists decry in others. It is okay for Clarke to make factually inaccurate claims about Condolezza Rice, but for somebody to make an accurate claim the debunks Clarke why that is simply partisan character assassination.

Read the whole thing. It's telling that Clarke's recent statements are completely and totally contradicted by a briefing he gave in August 2002. The question is, which Clarke do you think is credible?

"I wonder how many people there are left who don't accept the decision to go into Iraq was at least almost immediate after Sept. 11... several right-wingers now do, although they say that the administration believed it was necessary as part of the broader strategy against terrorism."

I don't understand this. A huge number of right wingers have been arguing that even if Iraq was not involved in 9-11 that dealing with it was still a necessary part of the war. We have been arguing this for years at this point. It isn't some new revelation. Clarke has 'revealed' the very thing that we have been publically arguing for more than two years now. Look at the 2002 State of the Union Address. You know, the one that specifically denies the need for an imminent threat. It talks about the broad need to deal with all sorts of things, including Al Qaeda and separately Iraq. That was TWO YEARS AGO.

One more thing: an Instapundit reader noted from this transcript:

ANGLE: So, just to finish up if we could then, so what you're saying is that there was no — one, there was no [Clinton] plan; two, there was no delay; and that actually the first changes since October of '98 were made in the spring months just after the administration came into office?

CLARKE: You got it. That's right.

Is it redundant to point out that this disagrees completely with what he's been saying lately? Which Clarke is the one we ought to believe?

Good shoe-leather work, Katherine. But, as been noted, whatever the Administration wanted to do w/r/t Iraq, it did go after the Taliban first.

So, this doesn't quite fit:

the analogy of the prosecutor who knows the guy is guilty. And if the DA can't find the evidence of guilt, that just shows how devious the criminal is--it's certainly no reason not to convict him.

Rather, the prosecutor looked at his usual suspect, cleared him, found and prosecuted the actual guilty party, and then returned to the usual suspect and convicted him on the usual grounds.

One thing that seems beyond dispute is that Clarke's at the center of things--"out of the loop" indeed.

Yeah. I think we can safely say that, whatever Cheney's other merits, he has a distant and uncomfortable relationship with the truth.

Slarti--shortest answer possible: it wasn't a Clinton plan, it was a Clarke plan.

I was going to explain how you can use the Time story to reconcile the two accounts, but he described it today as "somewhat sensationalist", so I'm working my way through his testimony.

He comes off very, very well to me. Far better than O'Neill.

Katherine, if you follow the little linky-thing to the Clarke brief, he says this:

RICHARD CLARKE: Actually, I've got about seven points, let me just go through them quickly. Um, the first point, I think the overall point is, there was no plan on Al Qaeda that was passed from the Clinton administration to the Bush administration.

So, no plan at all was transmitted from the Clinton administration to the Bush administration. Alles klar?

If not, maybe this:

CLARKE: There was never a plan, Andrea. What there was was these two things: One, a description of the existing strategy, which included a description of the threat. And two, those things which had been looked at over the course of two years, and which were still on the table.

QUESTION: So there was nothing that developed, no documents or no new plan of any sort?

CLARKE: There was no new plan.

QUESTION: No new strategy — I mean, I don't want to get into a semantics ...

CLARKE: Plan, strategy — there was no, nothing new.

will take care of that.


From the Clinton adminstration, as such, no. From Richard Clarke, the individual, who does not personify the Clinton administration, yes.

Is this a rather artificial, technical distinction? Yes. That's what spin is all about, though. To keep your job, you sometimes have to present your boss in the best possible light to the outside world, and say things that are only technically true. It's not even something isolated to the White House or Washington--I've had real jobs for all of two years, and I understand this.

(This is why that the "I'm just a midwesterner, I don't understand your tricksy Washington ways" comment from the former governor of Illinois was just laughable to me. I can't remember his name, but I'll always think of him as Commissioner Keyrock, in honor of SNL's old "Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer skit...)

"The Age of Sacred Terror," one of the authoritative books on the subject, tells more or less the exact same story as Clarke in his book. So does that Time article. So does his sworn testimony.

From the Clinton adminstration, as such, no. From Richard Clarke, the individual, who does not personify the Clinton administration, yes.

Call me overly inclusive, but I imagine that Clarke's being part of the Clinton administration sort of cancels out that entire distinction. Maybe it doesn't work that way for you, though.

Katherine, something about the idea that Clarke is the sole vehicle of transmission of the action plan from the Clinton administration to the Bush administration, and the reliance of that theory on the sole word of Clarke, rubs me the wrong way. So I'm picky. But ordinarily there's a paper trail in these matters; even if it's classified its existence can be verified or...not.

I still find it odd that in Clinton's final address to Congress on National Security Policy in December 2000, he didn't mention Al Qaeda even once. UBL got a couple of mentions, as did the Taliban. But the whole sense of plan, mission and urgency utterly failed to communicate. So, in this matter, I'm from Missouri.

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