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March 29, 2004

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Did any of that training happen to include Jesuitical instruction in casuistry? This post makes me feel like I'm reading a Scalia opinion: you know the answer, the only mystery is what tack he'll take to get there.

Here's another possibility, much more likely than any you suggest. Kerry is merely pointing out that Bush's claims to be a "compassionate conservative" and a pious Christian are sharply at odds with his policies.

That a close historical reading of the biblical text indicates that the admonition was probably directed at individuals detracts not a whit from its moral force or its applicability to this situation.

To suggest otherwise is to say that government's moral responsibilities are completely divorced from individuals', or that a politician's official moral views should be completely different from his personal ones.

"Did any of that training happen to include Jesuitical instruction in casuistry?"

Why no, but thank you for insulting my motives in the first paragraph - nay, the first sentence - of your response. I always appreciate it when people don't pretend.

It is the personal works of believers that James has in mind in this passage. It wasn't addressed to Caesar.

The same could be said of the entire new testament -- I always flinch when I hear some quote from a gospel or epistle used to support or oppose a political opinion, on the left or the right.

OTOH there's nothing in the NT one way or the other about the proper role of government in creating a just society (unsurprising given the political context of the time), so those who wish to bring their faith to their politics must extrapolate from the text somehow. It doesn't seem like an unreasonable exercise, though of course it has to be done with care.

"The same could be said of the entire new testament -- I always flinch when I hear some quote from a gospel or epistle used to support or oppose a political opinion, on the left or the right."

I can understand that attitude; it's alarmingly easy for bad things to happen when people start using religion as a yardstick to measure other people's behavior. One reason why I don't bring it up, much.

There is I think at Yglesias today a discussion of the Catholic Church and politics which concluded that the Church in Southern Europe has been historically more tolerant of repressive regimes. Included was discussion of political positions the Church has publicly taken, abortion and the death penalty as examples.

I am trying to remember what sort of official positions the Church has taken on social welfare policies. Encountered recently a official line something like "Poverty should be addressed locally according to the principles (or application) of Distributive Justice." I was impressed.

To suggest otherwise is to say that government's moral responsibilities are completely divorced from individuals', or that a politician's official moral views should be completely different from his personal ones.

John Kerry certainly seems to think the latter is true, since he defended his Catholicism and his pro-choice stance as, "American politicians don't tell the Church what to do, and they shouldn't tell us what to do." So, I guess you'll criticize that statement next. Oh, wait -- no you won't.

Me, I just despair of living in a country where the two major party candidates for President are suddenly running on the basis that the other guy isn't a good enough Christian. Really bodes well for us atheists.


OTOH there's nothing in the NT one way or the other about the proper role of government in creating a just society (unsurprising given the political context of the time), so those who wish to bring their faith to their politics must extrapolate from the text somehow.

It is true that Christ is largely silent on political philosophy; but when his (very raw) statements concerning it do come, they come like thunder. Consider "render unto Caesar." Never has political philosophy been so transformed with such economy of words. Even the Greeks did not really have this insight: Socrates was executed for impiety.

Socrates was executed for arrogance. They would have easily let him live if he hadn't stood on principle.

Phil, you wrote:
John Kerry certainly seems to think the latter is true, since he defended his Catholicism and his pro-choice stance as, "American politicians don't tell the Church what to do, and they shouldn't tell us what to do." So, I guess you'll criticize that statement next. Oh, wait -- no you won't.

I can see where you're coming from, as it's something Catholics themselves can be confused about: personal faith is seperate from church dogma. Kerry's statement reinforces his belief that politicians should follow their personal moral compass, and not take orders from some pastor, bishop or cardinal. The quoted Bible passage and the statement you quote are fully compatible.

(Disclaimer: I'm an agnostic Discordian episkopos, but I was raised as a Catholic.)

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