Time for some more advice...

... to wit, if Howard Dean was looking for his version of a "Sister Souljah" moment, he could do worse than to condemn the Kuchinich ad. Not a retraction of his antiwar stance, mind you: just a rejection of the conspiracy theories - which he will eventually have to do anyway.

Just saying, that's all.

Comments

[MattK/D1]

Seems like Clinton's SS moment occurred around June of 1992... did he already have the nomination sewn up? It might make a difference in Dean's timing on things of this nature, were he the calculating sort.

Not to suggest that Clinton's statement was politically motivated. ;)

[Mithras]

rejection of the conspiracy theories - which he will eventually have to do anyway.

Why will he have to do that?

[Katherine]

I would actually like him to wait. But not only for political reasons, but because part of the democratic party at some point will very likely need a serious talking to about where to go from here in Iraq, which will make some of them very unhappy. The more loyal they are to Dean beforehand, the better--this might be an "only Nixon can go to China" thing. Denouncing Kucinich's little web-ad is small potatoes, just as the original Sister Souljah moment was (Clinton opposes murdering police officers? Ya don't say.)

Yes, I realize most of you'll think I have too much faith in him. To you I say, quoting Tug McGraw, sometimes you gotta believe. He's done some things to earn it; anyway 25 year old hippy public interest lawyers shouldn't be as cynical and depressed about politics as I was a year ago.

[Moe Lane]

"Why will he have to do that?"

Because if he doesn't, he'll lose. Badly - and I'm talking "the District of Columbia comes into play for the Republicans" levels here*. Dean needs to take centrist votes away from Bush to win this election, and we do not take conspiracy theories about Halliburton and the ooooiiilllll seriously. We do not take seriously candidates who espouse such theories. We also do not take seriously candidates who will not take the opportunity given to them to denounce such theories.

(Shrug) Dean will be asked about it and Dean will assure the American public that of course he doesn't believe any of that nonsense. A case can be made that there would be some benefit towards him doing it now, and a case could be made for doing it later - but, one way or another, Dean's going to have to get up, look the camera right in the eye and say point-blank that it was Not All About The Oil. Or he can gut-shoot the Democratic Party.

I don't see him doing the latter, frankly.

Moe

*Yes, that bad.

[Moe Lane]

And Katherine brings up reasons why Dean might want to wait. She is, of course, closer to the source than I am; I will defer to her tactical sense on this issue. :)

[d-rod]

"The biggest loss that we’ve had in the last 2 ½ years is the loss of the “sense of community... This president has given that away.” - Howard Dean 9/8/03

Deep thoughts.

[JoJo]

we do not take conspiracy theories about Halliburton and the ooooiiilllll seriously

Ooh, I must be one of *them*, because I do.

Do you really think that, given the importance of energy, oil was not the real issue? James Baker called it our "life's blood". It is of consummate importance. Given the track record of U.S. administrations supporting the vilest of dictators on a geopolitical basis, how can you think this was not the main reason we felt obliged to forcibly re-negotiate the Iraqi oil contracts? Was it mere coincidence that Germany, France and Russia had signed contracts and opposed the war, while the U.S. and Great Britain didn't and pursued it?

Grow up. Conspiracies are a dime a dozen. Look at ADM. Look at Iran/Contra. Look at Enron. Look at 9/11 for that matter. To pretend that conspiracy is fantasy is to advance the cause of those who exploit us.

As for Halliburton, google "Merchants of Death". Among those who fall under that heading is Samuel Bush, father of Prescott Bush, whose wings were clipped under the Trading With the Enemy Act during WWII, grandfather of GHWB, who was "out of the loop" on Iran/Contra, and great grandfather of our own illustrious Dubya. No, our noble leaders would never conspire to personally profit at the expense of the Nation. Anyone who would think that is obviously beyond the pale. I have no doubt that I will now be roundly condemned as a lunatic. Have fun.

[rilkefan]

Jo Jo, you might want to argue for contributing factor instead of causative. I think it's simplistic to the point of kookiness to claim there was one simple reason we went into Iraq - see Wolfowitz. And Sam Bush just isn't relevant. Why don't you look into, say, Richard Perle and Trireme Partners, then try to construct an argument that influences A, B, and C were balanced by E and F but D tipped us into war. (I'm thinking the Neocon plan to remake the Mideast + the desire to kick butt after 9/11 + BushII's oedipal struggle with his dad versus Powell/BushI + reason but Perle/Halliburton.) I doubt you'd convince anyone here, though.

[JoJo]

You might want to argue for contributing factor instead of causative.

Nope.

Sam Bush just isn't relevant.

Glad you cleared that up.

I'm thinking the Neocon plan to remake the Mideast + the desire to kick butt after 9/11 + BushII's oedipal struggle with his dad versus Powell/BushI + reason but Perle/Halliburton.

Funny how oil somehow dropped out of your sophisticated analysis.

I doubt you'd convince anyone here, though.

Sure didn't work for me.

[JKC]

Uh... just a question here. Aside from those of us who spend way too much time in this particular corner of the Internet, how many people are even aware the Kucinich ad exists?

Not that the ad isn't stupid. I just suspect that to the public at large, it's invisible.

[spc67]

I have no doubt that I will now be roundly condemned as a lunatic.

I can only speak for myself...

[JoJo]

I can only speak for myself...

Please do so.

[Moe Lane]

"Uh... just a question here. Aside from those of us who spend way too much time in this particular corner of the Internet, how many people are even aware the Kucinich ad exists?"

JKC, if Dean wants to make this into an issue (I've seen arguments that make the case that he shouldn't), I would think that it be fairly easy for him to do so. I mean, if the presumptive Democratic candidate for Congress somehow can't set the agenda like this... then I recommend that he take the cash that he's got earmarked for the campaign and blow it on pizza for his election crew, 'cuz it'll be less of a waste that way. :)

[angua]

JoJo, honey, I though one of the main points of your country, as far as I understand it, is that one usually is not held responsible for stuff one's gandfather did a decade before one was born. Please feel to correct me, though.

[JoJo]

Angua, baby, I'm not sure where you get the idea that not visiting the sins of the father upon offspring is somehow central to our constitution, but when one finds four generations of a particular oligarchical family exploiting citizens in wartime it's perhaps worth taking into consideration. Acorns, trees, you know.

[angua]

I was thinking about that whole American dream, "I am what I achieve, not what my ancestors did during the time of the Norman conquest" ethic. That's one of the things America means to me, anyway.

Sorry about the "honey" crack.

[Thorley Winston]

Uh... just a question here. Aside from those of us who spend way too much time in this particular corner of the Internet, how many people are even aware the Kucinich ad exists?

Who's Kucinich?

;)

[booya]

Uh, reading some of this shit makes me realize why there is a stupid war going on and why most Americans are in support of it.
First off, Angua baby, WAKE UP. There is documented evidence of how 4 generations of the Bush family have financed and armed many of our so-called enemies. Count baby! 4 generations happens to include our current Emperor (illegally situated President). Look online just find how much business was conducted between our "President" and Mr. Bin Laden.

Conveniently ignored in all of the press coverage since the tragic events of Sept. 11 is the fact that on May 17 Secretary of State Colin Powell announced a gift of $43 million to the Taliban as a purported reward for its eradication of Afghanistan's opium crop this February. That, in effect, made the U.S. the Taliban's largest financial benefactor according to syndicated columnist Robert Scheer writing in The Los Angeles times on May 22. But -- as we described in FTW's March 2001 issue -- the Taliban's destruction of that crop was apparently the single most important act of economic warfare against U.S. economic interests that the Taliban had ever committed. So why the gift?

just a quote to make you realize that it's about the Benjamins, baby.

YEP... Oil is great.

Remember the saying that "Cotton is King" when we were exploiting Africans during the slave trade.

Oil is the new Cotton and Arabs are American's new "[The racial slur formerly found here has been deleted and the Posting Rule regarding profanity has been clarified to include racial slurs. Due to the preceding circumstances, the use of this racial slur has not been deemed to be a violation of the Posting Rules in this particular place.]".

[booya]

FYI:

http://www.konformist.com/911/osama-bush.htm

http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Political_Corruption/LobbyingMerchantsDeath.html

http://www.web.net/sworker/389-09-leftjab.html

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/12/276591.shtml

[Moe Lane]

I don't care about nutty conspiracy theories, booya - crunch 'em all you like, as long as you stay reasonably civil - but profanity is expressly forbidden under the Posting Rules and any further use of racial slurs or epithets will likewise be considered a violation of said rules.