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April 07, 2017

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I just wish I had spelled "afficionados" correctly.

Look forward, not back, joel.

Just returned from the grocery store and wanted to report that America's flagship media enterprise for the real lowdown, the National Enquirer, is reporting the trump family is in grave danger because the laptop containing all of the blueprints of every one of their residents has been stolen by terrorists.

When peering at the cover photo, I noticed some local terrorist had drawn a little moustache on trump's upper lip.

I hear Trump has blueprints drawn up of everyone who lives in any of his properties, so this one might be true. I just hope they don't get the residents' fingerprints, too.

what else is going on, you ask? this might give you pause.

Or not.

"residents" should read "residences"

I hate misquoting the National Enquirer. It seems to blunt the fakery and mislead the misled.

My journalism professor once told that when you come across fake news as a source, quote one word mistakenly and it will improve the copy and open the world of facticity and truth to the reader, but that was a long time ago when America wasn't quite so full of shit.

That is a great find bobbyp thanks.

I, for one, mourn the demise of the dead-tree version of the Weekly World News.

It would bring some sanity into today's world, it would.

what else is going on, you ask? this might give you pause.

I'd be curious to know what bob mcmanus thinks of that piece.

courtesy of LGM:

http://jezebel.com/airport-security-violently-drags-passenger-off-an-overb-1794170349?rev=1491835313367&utm_campaign=socialfow_jezebel_twitter&utm_source=jezebel_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Would someone like to explain WHAT THE FUCK is going on in this FUCKING, PIECE OF SHIT excuse for a country?

Snarki misses the WWN

Yeah, The Donald's meetings with Bat-Boy and space aliens have been strangely under-reported.

From the Guardian, Why are liberals now cheerleading a warmongering Trump?

What happened in Syria cannot be divorced from what is happening in Iraq and Yemen. In Mosul, at least 150 civilians perished in a Trumpist bombing raid – one of the deadliest US raids since the calamitous Iraq invasion. That’s more than perished in Assad’s gas attack in Khan Sheikhun, even if the American weapons that slaughtered them are legal.

Dozens were killed by a US strike against a school in Syria last month, largely unmourned by Trump’s new apologists, as were the 30 civilians killed in Trump’s failed Yemen raid in January, children among them. There are children in Yemen too, you know, and they are being slaughtered by US- and UK-backed Saudi warplanes. Trump’s liberal apologists won’t cry for them or even acknowledge their existence: they are, apparently, unpeople, rather than kids clutching teddy bears as western-backed bombs rain on their heads.

Would someone like to explain...?

I suspect there's some United employees on the carpet trying to do just that.

United should have kept upping the price until they got enough volunteers. $5,000 per seat would be a lot cheaper than the PR hit they're going to take.

Why Should Police Help United Airlines Cheat Its Customers?: United's action in having a man attacked and dragged off a flight yesterday was heinous. So is the fact that police officers cooperated.

But, but.... Anyone who won't cooperate is obviously a terrorist! (Or, at least, a potential terrorist.) So extreme measures are warranted.

Huh. I was told this stuff never gets as fat as the C-suite:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2017/04/10/wells-fargo-knew-about-sham-accounts-problem-as-far-back-as-2002/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_wellsfargo-925am-1-duplicate%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.514822d46ba2

More on United:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/04/united-video-scandal-law/522552/?utm_source=atltw

For the kind of money that is being talked about now (lawsuits, huge offers to bump volunteers), United could have chartered a small plane to take their employees from O'Hare to Louisville.

Or just bopped over to Midway and caught a nonstop Southwest flight to Louisville.

IME, United 'customer service' has been best described as 'surly' for roughly 20 years.

The entire experience of flying these days is a trial, even when things go smoothly - basically one long indignity imposed upon the "Customers".

Actually, much of it isn't intended as an imposition on the "customers." The whole point of all of the security theater is to be an imposition on the "voters". Otherwise how will they know, and be constantly reminded, that their politicians have "done something", and so should be reelected?

Not that the "something" needs to actually be useful. The things that were done that actually were useful aren't visible. Hence that nonsense.

I've said it before, but it's worth repeating: Airport Security Theater should be employing the population of chronically underemployed actors.

"Is this a dagger I see before me?"

Perhaps Improv Everywhere could set up their own Security Theater Checkpoints, just for shits and giggles before they get Trumped into Gitmo.

we're #1 when it comes to our tolerance for and acceptance of violence. among anything like our peer nations.

thug life.

British "Keep calm and carry on" has nothing on us. Especially when the 2nd Amendment is even peripherally involved.

British "Keep calm and carry on" has nothing on us.

Make up your mind, dammit! Do you want us to "keep calm" or "carry on"? Because if I start to carry on, you'll never hear the end of it.

Oh, wait, did you mean something about airlines? Yes, I'll "carry on". I don't trust checked luggage very much.

Personally, little would give me more pleasure than for Snarki to start carrying on.....

Virgin once bumped me when I was on my way to what I thought was my brother-in-law's deathbed. Instead of flying me London-San Francisco, they ended up flying me London-Los Angeles-San Francisco, and only getting there an hour or two late, and they gave me a free return ticket to anywhere in the world (it's what I used to go back to South Africa). Good customer relations, I would say.

Huffpost: SPICER: ‘EVEN HITLER’ NEVER GASSED HIS PEOPLE

C'mon guys, this is just pranking us, right? Right?

We'll know for sure when Ivanka releases her new aromatherapy line, under the "Zyklon B" name.

Then again, maybe we won't.

Security Theater--

How would the left'ish commentariat address airport security? If you think 'security theater' is just that, then I'm sure you're savvy enough to have the answer.

Right-wingers like me cringe at the regulatory state because this is exactly what you get when gov't steps in. TSA is the visible hand of gov't that touches all of us, literally, and sometimes not in a good way.

Compared to, e.g. regulating national healthcare or the economy with an eye toward mitigating global warning, keeping armed, bad people off of airplanes doesn't seem all that difficult. Yet, this is what we get. Does it give anyone here pause to think that the same geniuses who came up with 'frisk the world' will do the job right on healthcare or global warming?

Or that all of those other gov't programs are working any better than TSA?

I flew back to Houston today from Chicago (thunderstorms in Houston, BTW) on United. I fly United a lot--easily 20 probably more like 30 plus times a year. I think they do a good job. Today's flight and the in-flight service were just fine, but for landing in the thunderstorms.

I've been deplaned. I didn't like it, but I didn't refuse to leave and force the airline to remove me physically.

C'mon guys, this is just pranking us, right? Right?

Well, the Jews weren't his people.

There is that, CharlesWT. In the long overdue "Let's rehabilitate Hitler" moment so cleverly identified by Spicer, you could even say that in his way he was a kind of "Make Germany Great Again" kind of guy.

Compared to, e.g. regulating national healthcare or the economy with an eye toward mitigating global warning, keeping armed, bad people off of airplanes doesn't seem all that difficult. Yet, this is what we get. Does it give anyone here pause to think that the same geniuses who came up with 'frisk the world' will do the job right on healthcare or global warming?

Who is going to "do the job right" on these things? The invisible hand?

I'd do airport security however they did it 20 years ago, just with better technology.

The Invisible Hand is already doing air security. You just have to charter a flight for your own trip and schedule, and you can have as tight or loose security as you want also, too.

It just costs more, and is not something most people even think of.

Regulated common carriers? They'll cost you a lot less, but who amongst the freedom-lovers of the right will abandon their freedom for a cut-price flight? (answer: 99% of them).

just with better technology.

So, there is 'better technology' that would be effective against sky-jacking? Good to know. Who is using it? We were in Europe last summer, it isn't much different there.

In the absence of 'better technology' that is proven to be effective, I'm seriously asking the many here who lament/scoff at the pointless 'security theater' just what they would do differently that would be as seemingly effective as airport security has been since 9/11.

Seems to me, implicit in the scoffing is a substantive position that can be articulated and defended. I'm all ears.

Or is this just left wing jingoism? :-)

two things that are effective: locked cockpit doors, and knowledge by passengers that "go along with the hijacking and you'll probably be okay".

MOST of the air security is needed for flights coming to the US from other countries (very few of which has TSA doing the screening), because that's the place where "international terrorists" first make contact with America.

Terrorists that are already in the USA find it much, much easier to just go to a terrorist arms depot gun show, load up on high power firearms and ammo, and go on a shooting spree, in the best American Tradition™. Why have your plot possibly foiled by TSA?

rather, that the old paradigm of "go along with the hijackers..." is no longer operative.

Should be obvious.

McTX: Does it give anyone here pause to think that the same geniuses who came up with 'frisk the world' will do the job right on healthcare or global warming?

also McTX: I'm seriously asking the many here who lament/scoff at the pointless 'security theater' just what they would do differently that would be as seemingly effective as airport security has been since 9/11.

I'm confused. Is McKinney saying that the "same geniuses" who are not to be trusted with health or climate policy have given us "seemingly effective" airport security since 9/11 by using "frisk the world" tactics? Or is he talking about two different sets of geniuses? Or what?

BTW, McKinney: I've been deplaned. I didn't like it ...

I assume the plane wasn't in the air at the time. Were you "re-accomodated"? Compensated in some way? Did you take the airline's first offer, or hold out for more like a decent lawyer?

--TP

I simply refuse to abide by the rules and contracts clearly stated in the agreement I signed with my common carrier and if you make me you are the a$$hole.

I feel bad for the people who were forced to be the enforcers. And our society that somehow thinks this jerk was mistreated in some way.

Somehow we have come to the point where just saying f off to the authorities we hire to enforce the rules is considered acceptable behavior.

Do you really think that they should have just let him stay on the plane? Really?

Everyone who flies knows they might get bumped, it sucks. I have been a couple of times. I notice none of those other passengers offered to get bumped instead, but they were happy to talk about how horrible United is.

So, there is 'better technology' that would be effective against sky-jacking?

Better detectors than there were 20 years ago. Otherwise, things weren't so bad back then with air travel and security screenings. I'm not sure what we're getting for all the headaches. Are you?

And, yeah, lock the cockpit. That doesn't inconvience or humiliate anyone.

Marty: Do you really think that they should have just let him stay on the plane? Really?

Yes. Really.

Or, they could have sweetened the offer.

Or, they could have made the sweetened offer to some OTHER passenger.

But "they" being the hapless minions of a major corporation, who were just following orders, had no choice but to call in the glorified mall security guards.

Your love of authoritarianism is showing, Marty.

--TP

"I simply refuse to abide by the rules and contracts clearly stated in the agreement I signed "

Donald? Donald TRUMP?

Is that you?

How would the left'ish commentariat address airport security?

not my field, but my understanding is that the Israelis do a good job of it, with an approach that emphasizes human intelligence and face to face interviewing rather than our 'screen em all' approach.

i'm sure others here can say more about it than I can.

not sure what the 'leftish' take has to do with it.

and not for nothing, United can't figure out they need to free up a couple of seats before everybody, having gone through all the BS to get on the plane in the first place, is already seated?

cops don't know how to handle a pissed off 69 year old guy without manhandling him like the freaking town drunk?

it's disgraceful bullying horseshit.

it's disgraceful bullying horseshit.

This is, actually, the problem.

I've never been particularly offended by the TSA security theater. Mostly the TSA agents have been polite (if not particularly charming all the time). I haven't experienced the post-Trump harassment ethic, so I can't speak to that.

But the United "incident" is just doing something egregious because they could. I hope that guy sues and gets lots of money, and I'm really happy for the pushback. If I can, I will choose not United. Unfortunately, the "market" (you know, that "competitive" thing?) doesn't always allow that where I live.

my understanding is that the Israelis do a good job of it, with an approach that emphasizes human intelligence and face to face interviewing rather than our 'screen em all' approach.

But you have to understand. You can't use that approach with unskilled, minimum wage, labor. It takes skilled labor, lots of training, and you have to pay serious money to get serious people. We went cheap, probably because we knew we weren't really interested in improving security with all the theater.

Low bid!

"Your love of authoritarianism is showing, Marty."

No, what's showing is my intense dislike of people who think the rules just don't apply to them. And then plead victim when someone is forced to let them know that, yes, they really do apply to you too.

It is a damn process. You offer one number, no one accepts so you offer another number, No?, so you bump the last 4 people that checked in. No one was being an ass except the guy who didn't think that the rules applied to him.

It takes skilled labor, lots of training, and you have to pay serious money to get serious people.

yes

We went cheap, probably because we knew we weren't really interested in improving security with all the theater.

we went cheap because (R)'s hate public employee unions.

No one was being an ass except the guy who didn't think that the rules applied to him.

the guy may well have been an ass.

he wasn't the only one.

anyone who works in any field or profession that deals with the public at a retail level knows that the response to 'noisy pissed off customer' is not 'call the cops and forcibly evict'.

and IMVHO law enforcement and security in this country almost universally need some direction on how to de-escalate conflict.

1. The flight was NOT overbooked. United admitted that. So the FAA rules about how airlines could deny passengers for an overbooked flight DO NOT APPLY.
2. Those FAA rules also prohibit removing a paying customer that has boarded and is in their reserved seat.

UNITED broke the rules, and their contract with that customer. Marty's defense of their authoritarian tactics on behalf of a corporation is...telling.

Ghouta ( the 2013 nerve gas attack)

Two MIT weaponsexperts are noncommittal on who did it, but point out that much of the supposed evidence is a load of feces. Postol showed government claims about the Patriot missile effectiveness in the Gulf War were wrong.

https://cryptome.org/2014/08/postol-debunks-kaszeta.pdf

A list of people who are skeptical of the story on the latest attack. Lawrence Wilkerson is the latest to claim inside ( anonymous) sources at the Pentagon are doubtful. If true, somebody should throw away his or her career and say something on the record.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2017/04/intelligence-military-sources-warned-iraq-war-say-assad-not-launch-chemical-weapon-attack.html

And a piece which says what Snarki says about United.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/04/united-passenger-removal-reporting-management-fail.html

Make up your mind, dammit! Do you want us to "keep calm" or "carry on"?

my favorite version of the popular poster / t-shirt:

"go mental and arse about"

works for me.

As Russell notes, It seems to me that there seems to be a quantifiable difference between stopping someone from boarding and letting them take their seat and then dragging them out. Especially since they didn't even reach the ceiling of what they could offer for a seat (they stopped at $700, apparently the limit is twice that) While if Marty and Mrs Marty were in a restaurant and sitting down and the owner came by and said 'big star X is coming here, so I'm hoping that you'll just leave, even though you made your reservation a couple of months ago', they might meekly get up, knowing that it is the owner's restaurant, but I guess it is my leftish leanings that have me want the owner to make me a very nice offer for my trouble.

I don't know if this is my left-ish love of the mommy state (per McT) or my lassez-faire willingness to not enforce any behavioural norms (per Marty), but like Russell, I would like airline companies to be a little more organized and figure out where to deal with their customers rather than feel like they can piss on them whenever they like.

But honestly, like Russell, I wonder why make this into a left-right thing? It just makes you come off like an ass...

From Donald's nakedcapitalism link:

United’s real problem isn’t PR though, it’s outsourcing. An astonishing amount of United Airlines flying is conducted by outsourced employees who work for contractor shell companies. The whole idea is cost savings/profits through labor arbitrage and the typical race to the bottom dynamic.
It's funny how "race to the bottom" never seems to apply to CEOs. Flight attendants, security guards, janitors, teachers -- "job consumers" of all sorts: good business practice demands hiring the cheapest ones you can get. But CEOs, no: good business practice seems to require hiring expensive ones, because (presumably) you get what you pay for.

Some people will not see the irony I'm pointing out. You know who they are.

--TP

Maybe this has been mentioned, but, apparently, they let the guy back on the plane, which is nice. Though it makes me wonder what the point of the violence was.

I'd be very interested to see Marty's response to Snarki's 07.49.

I've had my eye on a pair of go-go boots down at the local "Footwear Is Ours, Not Yours", but every time I put my money on the barrel head and am about to walk out wearing them, a salesperson runs over, confiscates them, and tells me there are four employees in the store who they were promised to.

The other night, I ordered the Steak Diane at my local "Now You See It, Now You Don't", and just as I was about to tuck in, the server whisked the plate out from under my nose and interrupted my protest by inquiring if my name is "Diane" and when I demurred, she huffily replied that the sous chef, whose name was inevitably, Diane, and who was peeking at the proceedings from the open kitchen, had her eye on that cut of meat and would like it back and so there you are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFMpySg_UrM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcliR8kAbzc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xqkpP59UgM

Since this is now a left/right thing by conservative proclamation, I'd like to observe how the one feature of the regulatory state these guys really find bracing is when soft human tissue meets hard, immovable object in the martial enforcement of the rule-following.

This United thing is nothing, Wells Fargo and Volkswagon notwithstanding, wherein without liberal busybodies, managerial malfeasance up and down the line would have remained unknown to all at large.

I'd rather see Marty's response to my 9:31

You should see a conservative stand in line at customer service at the local DMV where they have to take a number and stand in line with the riff-raff.

The body language of affrontery says violent resistence is incipient.

And if certain people are registering to vote there, well, get ready to apply pressure to bodily choke points.

problem?

solved

Americans, as a class of dyspeptic consumer trained from birth to expect the very best, are renowned worldwide for tackling pompous authority, although for my money you haven't lived until you've stood in a crowd of angry consumers on the Indian sub-Continent in 100 percent humidity as they threaten to tear a single purveyor of services, any kind of services, to shreds.

Here are some unhappy customers. Every one a conservative.

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/video-miami-man-screams-trump-at-black-starbucks-employee-claims-white-discrimination-8929172

http://blackyouthproject.com/trump-supporter-yells-at-black-employees-in-michaels/

"I'd be very interested to see Marty's response to Snarki's 07.49. "

I just read it, If both of those things are 100% true then UAL should get sued.

However, I suspect the terms of the contract he signed gives them the right to ask him to leave so it is likely he wouldn't win, well except now they will have to settle.

the terms of the contract he signed

nitpick: buying an airline ticket does not involve signing a contract. your agreement to the contract is implied by your purchase.

Transportation of Passengers and Baggage on flights operated by United Airlines, Inc. ... are subject to the terms and conditions set forth in United's Contract of Carriage, in addition to any terms and conditions printed on or in any ticket, ticket jacket or eticket receipt. By purchasing a ticket or accepting transportation, the passenger agrees to be bound thereby...
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract.aspx

Last I heard, "signing a contract" doesn't allow one to violate federal rules.

But in this brave new Trumpian world, who knows?

Marty, let's think of it in free market terms.

Delta and Alaska and Southwest all know how to handle uncooperative, angry customers without brutality. United apparently doesn't.

I'm going to send a market signal expressing my preference in customer-relations policies.

Not to thread-jack, but since it's open season, I figured I'd point out that North Carolina is trying their darndest to win the "Most Bigoted State in the Union" award with a House Bill that overturns the Obergefell v. Hodges Supreme Court decision.

http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/328378-north-carolina-bill-looks-to-ban-gay-marriage

I wasn't aware this was how things worked. Can state law invalidate federal law somehow? WTF?

Can state law invalidate federal law somehow?

No. It cannot.* Also, that does not stop some conservatives who tend to overlook who won the Civil War and the actual language of Constitutional Amendments 13-15 inclusive!

*cf Supremacy clause, U.S. Constitution.

"I'm going to send a market signal expressing my preference in customer-relations policies."

I fully support this market mechanism.

, I figured I'd point out that North Carolina is trying their darndest to win the "Most Bigoted State in the Union"

well, to be fair to the other several million of us who live there, the bill is the fantasy of three ultra-wingnuts in the state legislature. if it gets past the Democratic Gov (which it could, since the Rs have super-majorities), it'll get crushed by the courts anyway.

https://qz.com/955875/scott-pruitt-requests-funds-for-247-fleet-of-bodyguards-as-epa-poised-to-cut-health-safety-programs/

If you try to kill Americans, why shouldn't Americans act in self-defense to harm the perpetrators?

I want a fleet of armed bodyguards to protect kids against lead.

I just read it, If both of those things are 100% true then UAL should get sued.

Thanks Marty, good to hear.

Of course, as others have noted, the big question apart from United's possible malfeasance is why those TSA people (if that's what they're called) defaulted to such brutality, and why they thought they could do so with such impunity.

Almost everyone is armed with a video camera these days.
When will authority learn that an armed society is a polite society.
$1.6 billion dollar stock loss, ouch.

GftNC, I suppose I am just slow. They grabbed a guy who was refusing to move, grabbed his hands and dragged him out of the plane. Thats really not anywhere near my definition of brutality. He could have, recognizing he wasn't getting to stay, said ok I'll walk at any point.

I am considering the possibility that my definition of brutality may be why I don't share some level of indignation here.

They must have seen they were being filmed, by many people, and it appears not to have dented their sense of invulnerability in the slightest. I find this very hard to understand. Some say that this sort of thing has got much worse since the advent of Trump, but it seems to me that the police were merrily shooting black boys, and wrestling black teenage girls at pool parties to the ground, and assaulting black motorists (to mention but a few such cases) before Trump. Or am I being unfair?

Sorry Marty, my post was stuck in editing for so long I didn't see your post before I posted.

Brutality: it's all relative. If, as seems likely, neither United nor the TSA had the right to make him give up his seat, he was well within his rights to stay put. And if they dragged him out, not taking care to avoid him bumping his head (as testified by several witnesses) that counts as brutality I think. Regarding my final remarks about police actions against African Americans, I know from previous discussions that you (and McKinney) may think them unjustified. But although I perhaps exaggerated for effect, I really think that the level of police brutality towards black people in the US is a blot on your justice system that can only be explained by the fact that so many people deny its existence.

I'm pretty sure that if ANY police are merrily shooting black men, they are not indicative of the norm in our justice system. I suspect if you hire enough police persons to protect and serve 350m people, from that population, you will run across some bad hires.

I suspect if you hire enough police persons to protect and serve 350m people, from that population, you will run across some bad hires.

A problem is, in all too many jurisdictions, after making a bad hire, it's almost impossible to make a good fire. All too often, a LEO has to be caught on camera committing some egregious crime before they can be fired.

if it gets past the Democratic Gov (which it could, since the Rs have super-majorities), it'll get crushed by the courts anyway.

Depends on how long it takes to reach SCOTUS. If another justice is exchanged by then (and if I were one of the remaining 'liberals' there, I'd think about hiring some extra bodyguards), the precedent establishing legal gay marriage may fall as quickly as it came. For the next candidate any charade about him being a decent guy can safely be done without.

I'm pretty sure that if ANY police are merrily shooting black men, they are not indicative of the norm in our justice system.

And? Does this mean it's not a problem or that nothing should be done about it?

On the rest, what CharlesWT said.

This is a fun interview. Hardhitting. High-level journalism:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/04/12/president-trumps-throughly-confusing-fox-business-interview-annotated/?utm_term=.7cdc3e77b078

I especially loved the bit wherein as trump babbles on incoherently, he requests that Maria Bartiromo, the right wing money c*nt, bathe each of his testicles in the warm saliva of her adoration and she answers "Brilliant, donald! More tax cuts, please. Yum, cake!"

Of course we should address any case of police malfeasance. I'm also pretty sure the number of police "merrily" killing black young men is infinitesimal.

Forget the merrily bit, that's just an English form of words used to express, in such a case, something like "without giving it a second thought". I might similarly have said "with gay abandon". You may also have heard me talk about e.g. "Trump and his merry men" - the merry is not meant literally.

Tsk, we could have had SO much fun with "gay abandon" :-(

Postol is now saying the Trump document on the chemical attack is full of nonsense. Postol has a track record of exposing false claims, so I am curious to see if this will be ignored.

https://southfront.org/mit-professor-questions-white-house-claims-on-syrian-air-forces-involvement-in-chemical-attack-in-idlib/

Ignored by the MSM, I mean.

TMZ determined that my assessment on the UAL incident was correct. THAT is real analysis.

Crucified man had prior run-in with authorities

he was no angel.

and just how wingnutty are the three NC state legislators pushing that anti-gay marriage bill?

well, one of them just said Lincoln was "the same sort of tyrant" as Hitler.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article144216324.html

one of them just said Lincoln was "the same sort of tyrant" as Hitler.

It really was TERRIBLE how Lincoln rounded up those designed as subhumans by way of being in some particular racial category for forced labor. I'm sure that a NC traditional conservative is especially horrified by that! Why couldn't Lincoln have been more in tune with modern Republicanism, and just prevented "those people" from voting?1??

Be thankful he didn't go so far as to compare Lincoln to Assad.

Hitler?

That's nothing. You should have been there in 1861 when the racist Southern Democrats who now run the modern sadistic conservative movement would stoop so low that they resorted to calling Lincoln a Republican.

well, one of them just said Lincoln was "the same sort of tyrant" as Hitler.

I've about had it with people like this.

If the "big sort" continues, in a few years it may actually be possible to draw lines and segregate the knotheads and the leftoids geographically.

If we get to that point, I'm all for building a freaking wall and calling it a day. A big beautiful wall, one that would make DJT proud and pleased. With guns and barbed wire, if need be.

Freaks like Pittman can stay over on their side, and I'll stay on mine.

I do not consider folks like that to be any kind of fellow countrymen or -women of mine. I want nothing to do with them, and I do not want their perverse view of the world to have any effect on any aspect of the public life I participate in.

As far as I can tell, I have nothing in common with these people, and don't want to.

If the "big sort" continues, in a few years it may actually be possible to draw lines and segregate the knotheads and the leftoids geographically.

Not going to happen. Please don't abandon cleek.

i've seen some of cleek's work, he could find a job someplace else in about a minute and a half. he'd have to pay more for his house, but then again he'd probably have less hassles with his builder.

everybody has to make their own decisions, but I'm not sure how long I could last in a place where I was surrounded by people that made me want to punch them in the face all the time.

a guy can only drink so much.

Garth: On you knees before me! All the others before me have failed: Alexander, Caesar, Napoleon, Hitler, Lee Kuan, Krotus. All of them are dust!

A list from which to choose. He seems to have forgotten Lincoln.

Pray that an outbreak of e coli botulism will kill unregulated conservatives en masse at Mar-a-Lago:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/health-violations-trump-mar-a-lago-kitchen

Serve the rats some rat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jyga36vpZI

and if they protest, resort to innovative customer service practices:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E83PSa-QHOo

No, Mungo! Never kill a customer.

i'd happily move back to NY, or to MA! if Mrs wanted to. which she doesn't.

but, in defense of the south, lemme just say: Donald Trump isn't from the south.

Snowflakes running up the taxpayers' security tab to protect them from the taxpayer constituents.

Gabby Giffords should have thought of that before the Republican Party and the NRA sent its assassins to gun her down.

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a54482/republican-congress-snowflakes/

Republican filth have an innovative way of thinking about how stealing from the taxpayers and calling it a salary and healthcare isn't that after all.

but, in defense of the south, lemme just say: Donald Trump isn't from the south.

True dat.

Also, I'm not necessarily talking about a north-south thing. There are places in the south that I'm sure I'd find more than congenial. And places in the north where I have no interest in spending any time.

I'm talking about attitudes, not latitudes.

Yes, the asshole/jagoff diaspora has spread them to every corner of every state in the Republic.

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