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February 17, 2017

Comments

You've got a duplication in the post Doc - not that I minded looking at the cute picture of the weasel twice.

Success at last! only one weasel!

Nope, you've still got two weasels. Both of the last 2 photos. ;-)

Mink are not cute; they are rather vicious predators.

Doc, thanks for identifying the leading, IMO, argument for removing Trump from office via the 25th Amendment.

I am heartened beyond words that this argument works for you, McKinney.

What do you think would be the best way to spread it to other not-Hillary voters?

"What do you think would be the best way to spread it to other not-Hillary voters?"

Collect something that resembles facts and make it sound less hysterical. There is not a single fact in what you wrote here. I presume the President did not take an unsecured phone anywhere near a Top Secret conversation. And my assumption has the same level of factual basis as yours.

I assume that Vice-Adm Hayward turned down the job for the specific reason he gave, he liked being retired.

I assume the six people dismissed at the WH were dismissed at the same time because their clearances were processed at the same time, and many low level jobs that require clearances allow people to start while the clearance is being processed.

I can go on, and I am not sure that my assumptions in all cases would be different than yours, but "Our country has no national security" is a ludicrous histrionic statement that has no basis in any fact that has been presented here.

Laughably, but not funny, this is what transparency looks like in government. Shocking that it involves people doing sometimes dumb things.

What do you think would be the best way to spread it to other not-Hillary voters?

Good question. Of the cuff, widespread lobbying for a bipartisan select commission with full subpoena power (and power to grant immunity and power to hear classified material in camera) to look into Russian hacking the DNC, Russian contacts with the administration pre-inauguration, the administration's relationship with the intelligence community and the administration's husbandry (if I can use that word in a gender neutral sense) of classified information.

If it were me writing the script, the campaign for the foregoing would include being a lot more selective about other Trump-related issues--I'm not saying across the board silence, just be a lot more selective. If he's an asshole at a press conference, so what? That isn't jeopardizing national security.

If you want a coalition, build one.

I presume the President did not take an unsecured phone anywhere near a Top Secret conversation. And my assumption has the same level of factual basis as yours.

That seems like a huge assumption. Given that he had tweeted moments before the discussion started. Yes, it is just barely possible that he sets his unsecured phone aside before secret conversations start. But it certainly doesn't look that way.

And that's before we get to all the folks in that dining room (including wait staff) who have phones in their pockets. Unsecured phones, obviously.

When confronted with the reality of Putin having dissenting journalists killed, the DT didn't deny it. Rather, he engaged in moral relativism, equating Putin/Russia with the US. I've pushed back for decades when the left did (and does) this, and now we have a "Republican" President who is leading far too many people into folding themselves into a series of pretzels to sort out and justify his positions, taking on the job of Russian apologist. I imagine Putin's main problem these days is the constant treatment for those 4 plus hour erections he's getting at the thought of his only global check assuming the role of his own private fantasy babe.

It takes no leap of faith to believe this loudmouth narcissist would decide for himself how careful he needed to be be with national security. For a man who wanted to lock HRC up for her email sloppiness, his hypocrisy is really quite something.

Thanks, McKinney. My Representative Bonnie Watson Coleman is a Democrat on the House Oversight Committee, and she & her colleagues are pressing for investigation of Flynn's ties to Russia. We can see how Chaffetz & the Rs on the committee deal with the response to their letter about Mar-a-Lago to see if the two issues can be tied together.

Sure. Don't hold your breath on the R's. Too much wind, too many directions.

Good post, doc. Hard to argue with anything you say, unless you're Marty.

I am not sure what a top secret cell phone looks like. So far as I have experienced, even secret communication requires a wire. I am pretty sure using a top secret cell phone in the middle of a restaurant defeats the purpose of being top secret.

And any place that can be used to discuss secret information has a ban on cell phones/electronics. My wife hates when I disappear for a couple hours and can't answer a text. I guess I should twitter her instead.

I recognize that practicality makes some things different for senior leaders. Everything the president says is potentially top secret. But that argument didn't work for Clinton.

I presume the President did not take an unsecured phone anywhere near a Top Secret conversation.

Marty, _someone_ was able to take that candid picture of The Donald at table. They used a networked cell phone. That's a serious security breach right there.

I assume the six people dismissed at the WH were dismissed at the same time because their clearances were processed at the same time, and many low level jobs that require clearances allow people to start while the clearance is being processed.

This is almost exactly the interpretation I saw from Adam Silverman at Balloon Juice, who is quite knowledgeable in this domain.

AS suggested that the failing applicants were found to have omitted or misstated important information on one of the clearance app forms.

I'd score this one for Marty.

We have always been at war with the Axis of Weasels.

Boom!

Collect something that resembles facts and make it sound less hysterical.

A short note,, Marty. labelling what a woman writes as 'hysterical' could be used as evidence that you are a misogynist. You may what to cleanse your vocabulary of that word.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_hysteria

Female hysteria was once a common medical diagnosis, reserved exclusively for women, that is no longer recognized by medical authorities as a medical disorder. Its diagnosis and treatment were routine for hundreds of years in Western Europe.
[...]
In extreme cases, the woman may have been forced to enter an insane asylum or to have undergone surgical hysterectomy.

Like queer, fag and the n word, some feminists want to use vocabulary jiu-jitsu to make the word have less power over them

http://www.hystericalfeminisms.com/

but when a cisgendered white male uses the term, he may be asking for trouble.

However, I would just settle for you to get off the fence about Trump...

Utah Rep. Jason Chaffetz ... has actually sent a letter to the White House asking for information about what the heck was going on there, no later than Feb. 28th. We shall see what comes out of it.

"We were eating dinner."

"Oh. OK then."

And seriously, if someone is using their smartphone to illuminate the news of North Korea firing missiles so the POTUS can read it in a restaurant dining room, while onlookers take selfies of the whole thing, it's fair to say that we're not operating in a secure environment. Wherever Trump's phone happened to be at that moment.

To McK's point, I agree that it's important to pick your battles. It's just hard to know where to start.

Why does it matter if Trump carries on like somebody's drunken uncle for an hour and change?

Because it demonstrates that he has no understanding of the responsibilities that attend on the office he holds.

It's not about his deportment in and of itself. It's about his fitness for the office.

Marty: Collect something that resembles facts ...

Too late. Kelly Ann Conway and He, Trump cornered the market on those, months ago.

--TP

One hour ago on Rubio's twitter feed:

Marco Rubio ‏@marcorubio 1h1 hour ago

I am now very confident Senate Intel Comm I serve on will conduct thorough bipartisan investigation of #Putin interference and influence

Do we believe this?

Do we believe it? Well it looks like it is in the process of becoming something with its own momentum. That is, it seems impossible at this point to not have an investigation.

Once the investigation gets going, it will be extremely awkward to keep from going where the evidence leads. Not impossible for the Chair to avoid going down some paths, if the evidence leading there is less than overwhelming. But that caveat doesn't look like it will close off too much.

The Senators are, as I think some of them realize, opening a can of worms. Which it will be difficult to close again. That is probably why the House, specifically Chaffetz, is fighting so hard against starting an investigation. They have a pretty good idea what they might find, and know that the only way to avoid finding it is to not look in the first place.

God I hope you're right wj. I just fear that Snarki's Axis of Weasels will succeed in finding a way to block it. And if it goes ahead, as well as the Trump people presumably it will be pretty bad for Comey too, with the question of why he sat on it before the election. It couldn't happen to a more suitable bunch, but I don't want to get my hopes up. They may find a way to pin it on the Russkies, but still whitewash the warriors of the land of the free.

Does anyone know if Pence would continue Trump's immigration policies (if they can be called that) were he to ascend to the Presidency? Those seem to be the most horrible, possibly worse than ACA repeal that Trump needs the Senate on anyway, so it would be nice to know if they would change under Pence.

I'm sure Trump calling the media the "enemy of the American people" is just normal for a new president.

Can't wait for the WH correspondent's dinner...

That Rubio tweet came after he & rest of Senate Intelligence Committee were briefed (for 2 hrs+) by FBI Director Comey.

Senators ominously silent following briefing of the Senate Intelligence Committee by FBI Director Comey today: pic.twitter.com/RAUko9amHH

— ...she persisted. 🗽 (@leahmcelrath) February 17, 2017

Silence was from Senators of both parties.

Reporters present seem to agree this suggests that Comey gave them irrefutable, damning evidence of things they hadn't wanted to know or deal with, and now they have to.

Rubio's tweet suggests we aren't looking at many months, at least.

"However, I would just settle for you to get off the fence about Trump..."

Nothing sure how on the fence I am, but there are a few things in life that require a really high bar, a coup is one of them.

Assuming I know what someone was saying as someone took their picture doesn't get me there.

Pretty bland immigration policy, almost identical to the past two Presidents except a 90 day pause that the courts have killed does it. Nothing he has actually done in the last four weeks comes close.

The IC would not have withheld actual evidence of collusion with the Russians, so all the current crap is politics. But it is certainly the thing that would justify impeachment.

I will try to remember not to use hysterical when talking to a woman, I do use it often with men and women for both humorous and out of control circumstances. I will try to use my words better.

Silence was from Senators of both parties.

Not to mention Angus, presumably.

(Angus King, independent senator from Maine, on the intelligence committee.)

The IC would not have withheld actual evidence of collusion with the Russians, so all the current crap is politics.

Sure about that? I'd really like to believe it myself. But the difference in how the FBI director seems to have handled the two investigations suggests that might be just a tad optimistic.

According to the official White House schedule, Trump has not received *any* daily intelligence briefing since Monday, when Flynn resigned. His briefings were already a short version that came through Flynn, not the usual PDB (which is normally tailored to the recipient).

Marty:

The IC hasn't exactly withheld the evidence of Russian collusion all these months, they just haven't been forcing it on the Senators' attention. Remember, most of the IC were not-Hillary voters, too, ignoring it and thinking it was no big deal helped keep them happy with themselves.

The GOP Senators have been determined *not* to know what's in the box they've bought. They traded away *everything* for the chance to gut regulations and lower taxes on the rich.

I really, REALLY hope that the briefing was Comey opening the box and forcing the GOP to look at evidence they haven't want to face.

Nothing sure how on the fence I am

Marty, you are the guy who called Obama a tyrant and Clinton one of the most evil people ever.

Your response to any and everything Trump has dished out has been, consistently, "meh, nothing to see here".

You like to present yourself as the open-minded moderate conservative guy, but as far as can tell you're in the tank.

Walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

I really, REALLY hope that the briefing was Comey opening the box and forcing the GOP to look at evidence they haven't want to face.

This won't happen. Hope is not a plan.

The current right wing is basically a reactionary movement fueled by huge (and I mean HUGE) business dollars. They could care less.

They want what they want, and they will, when push comes to shove, do anything to get it.

They want the Gilded Age back...lock, stock, and barrel, social Darwinism, the whole package. They want a bifurcated society..the rich and the immiserated everybody else.

They are an existential threat to an open and just society.

This is where we are headed.

No Doc, not in the tank. I don't like his performance art, I don't like his policy on Syria, I don't know whether I like a bunch of other things because in 4 weeks he just hasn't really done much. I'll repeat that, in four weeks he really hasn't done much. We spent the first few talking,about EO'S we knew were coming two talking about a watered down ban that isn't even in place. And then Russians. And his telephone.

I wasn't a birther despite my dislike for Obama, I was pretty sure he wasn't a secret Muslim prince. These are the comparisons to "we have no national security".

Sorry that was for russell not doc.

Is there an 'over-under' that Flynn gets reappointed? No charges, Trump says he would have told him to do it if he thought he wasn't doing it, and the number of qualified people who are saying 'no' is getting embarrassing.

It would almost be a relief to get him back.

"Almost a relief"? Isn't Flynn the one who told Putin who the US assets in Russia were, so they got rolled up right after the Inauguration?

The man's a traitor.

Granted, so is everyone else in that bunch.

But Flynn is supposed to have done that already. So it's water under the bridge; it's not like he would do it again -- no point. And compared to Bannon and Miller? A voice of (comparative) sanity.

These are the comparisons to "we have no national security".

Obama wasn't actually born in Kenya.

Trump actually did review sensitive intelligence in a public dining room. While people were taking selfies of it and illuminating the material with their cell phones.

See? Not the same.

He might have had his android phone with him at the moment, or not. He sure as hell has it with him at other times.

The comparison between your responses to the actions of Obama and Trump are marked. Which is fine. But "on the fence" you are not.

If Trump is only using the phone for outgoing calls and tweeting, he could keep it in Faraday bag the rest of the time.

On the fence about the ability of Trump to rein himself in enough to be a competent President? yes I am. On the fence as to how hard that might be beyond his own failings? not at all.

The left/Demoocratic/media strategy is to keep enough pressure through whatever means, but mostly by declaring one ginned up outrage after another, to make him fail, and bad enough to get "taken out". Thats birther crap. All inbecause they, maybe you included IDK, cant get past feeling stupid for underestimating him. So they have to somehow find a way to prove they were right, at any cost. And all this comes with a cost.

Practically, You have no idea for example whether Trump reviewed sensitive information in that dining room or not. You are just willing to assume he was. You don't know what phone or software he is actually using.

Next up, Marty will explain how because we didn't know what Trump was saying at his press conference, this proves that we are out to 'get' Trump.

"I'm not a birther" is so low a bar that it is subterranean, but you use that to pat yourself on the back and convince yourself that you are insightful.

lj, I'm pretty sure, despite my dislike of almost every Obama policy and tactic that I never questioned his right to a Cabinet etc, or the Presidency.

No one in politics is sleazier than Rahm Emmanuel and we put up with him for four years.

I don't imagine myself as particularly insightful, I just don't have a vested interest in proving he is incapable of the job or that he is awesome. Those two opinions still fill my social media every day, both sides of every event. Either Trump was awful at the press conference or he really rocked telling those reporters off, pick your side. From what little I've heard he did some of both. He was right on top of the NK event or he should not have been in MaraLago, with a phone. Dont get me started on Cabinet picks.

If there is any fact that shows he colluded with the Russians to hack US computers, he should be impeached. If Paul Manafort talked to a Russian official so what? He probably knows lots of them. Globization is good, remember?

Enough

My understanding, based on an extremely wide range of repors of the incident, was that Trump was briefed, by aides, on the North Korean missile fire while having dinner with Abe in the Mar e Lago dining room.

Do you contend that did not happen?

As far as the "left strategy", I'm not sure there is one. I don't really consider myself to have misunderestimated him, so far he has done not one thing to exceed my very low expectations. If anything, the opposite, he's actually worse than I would have thought.

To the degree that my "estimate" was off, it was in overestimating the intelligence and basic sense of civic responsibility of my fellow americans. That's apparently what I get for being an uppity elitist.

I agree that, should Trump be ejected from office, there will "be a cost". It will be a fucking shitstorm, and it's nothing I would look forward to.

Unfortunately, having begun his time in office by declaring that "the President can't have a conflixt of interest", he has proceeded to very arguably violate the emoluments clause, and may well have participated in unethical or even illegal collusion with foreign heads of state.

The "very arguably" above is me throwing you a bone, as far as I can tell the emolumens question is open and shut. See also, as one simple example, China suddenly deciding to grant him trademark rights for construction, which he has sought and been denied for ten years. Right up until just after his "congenial" phone call with their head of state.

So People Like Me are faced with the prospect of looking the other way while what appears to be the most corrupt POTUS in the history of the nation carries on like drunken uncle Ed at Thanksgiving, or else taking whatever lawful and proper actions are available to us and risking "the cost" that will surely follow. Which will probably include at least some loss of life, and possibly risk actual civil war.

That's what the options look like to me.

Don't even think about giving me any shit about wanting to "prove myself right". What I think would have been grand would have been Trump, having won, actually setting about to execute the office he had won with a decent regard and respect for the resposibilities and obligatons that attend to it.

That is apparently not going to happen. So now we all have to figure out how to deal with it.

If you didn't vote for the guy, fine. Actually, even if you did vote for the guy, fine. Whatever. If you have some useful contribution to make to dealing with the daily clusterfuck that has been visited upon us, that would be great. If all you have to say is "You people are just trying to tear him down", folks may not be that interested.

If your point is "If Trump fails it will be your fault and then you're gonna pay", then I say fuck that noise. If Trump fails it will be because he's not qualified to hold the office. And I'd say it's a not-unlikely outcome. And if he fails and all his supporters decide to make all of the rest of us "pay", then fucking bring it. Conservatives have been threatening people like me with every kind of imaginable mayhem if they don't get their way for 15 years, and I'm sick of it.

They got their way, and their way is a palpable train wreck. If they can't own that and deal with it, the rest of us will. If that pisses them off, that's not my fucking problem. If they want to make it my fucking problem, they will by god regret it.

Thanks for playing.

"Walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it's probably a duck."

Wabbit!

Duck fencing. Hysthterical!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cuihrjLNAo

Don't Fence Me In:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wGUhNeL2-U

Ducks, in or out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZY0eiOjEYs

Incoming! Duck!

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/man-donald-duck-costume-ruffles-feathers-trump-taxes-article-1.2780391

"All inbecause they, maybe you included IDK, cant get past feeling stupid for underestimating him."

The "over" on me is 10x regarding trump et al, so now we have the "under".

McTX's advice to focus and be selective is politically and strategically sound advice for the professionals, but I think Sebastian's "Chaff" theory, regarding the semblance of a modus operandi this crew in the White House is presenting (it's like a fireworks display; the crowd "huzzahs" at every burst of shiny), is fit subject matter for we low-level blogging amateurs.

Yesterday, for truesies, there was a guy in a wheelchair outside a coffee shop I entered, howling and barking against the world at the top of his lungs. A little crowd gathered and even the auto traffic slowed. He was disturbing the peace and probably off his meds.

In time, the professionals (I could tell they were professionals because they had blinking lights on their cars and uniforms) arrived and took the poor guy in hand.

It was a spectacle, just like the trump press conference. People can't help but be enthralled by a guy in public who might at any moment drop trow and moon the onlookers, or accuse your mother of having loose morals.

I hate train wrecks, but I'll look em up on YouTube.

bobbyp is right regarding where it's going.

Pence will be worse, except that his fly isn't open in public, so it will seem like an improvement.

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/02/89779

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2017/02/making-america-ashamed-again-by.html

In interviews after the folks made it over the Canadian border, they also said Canada has better healthcare access.

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2017/02/making-america-ashamed-again-by.html

State Department diplomats now resort to quizzing foreign diplomats to learn WTF the White House' "foreign policies" might be ....

I was told yesterday by a person at the EPA that their website has not been updated since January 19, whereas before it was updated continuously.

Transparancy, my f*cking ass.

As far as the EPA goes, if the Enforcement division and much else is disappeared, then the American citizenry, like George Zimmerman, need to form their own armed militia forces and react precipitously as law enforcement and the Rule of Law have backed off.

A corporation pollutes? Show up at the CEO's front door and make inquiries.

Take no prisoners.

See, without gummint, I make my own f*cking rules.

Link to that State Department assertion:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/16/rex-tillerson-state-department-sidelined-by-white-house?CMP=share_btn_tw

As with trump, people tell me these things. I don't need no stinkin linkin.

If Trump is only using the phone for outgoing calls and tweeting, he could keep it in Faraday bag the rest of the time.

As with several other points (by others, not necessarily you), it is certainly possible for him to do so. But there is zero evidence, that I can see, that he would accept that kind of constraint. Let alone that he has a clue that such things exist.

Ooh, Cotton calls Ryan an "intellectual"!

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a53251/paul-ryan-tax-plan-problems/

That's gotta hurt, Gene!

See, we liberals, moderates, and sensible conservatives aren't even on the target range anymore.

Long ago, I played on a very competitive traveling softball team and we were good. But our real edge came from the fact that we didn't start fights with the other teams or the umpires, no, we were too busy engaging in yelling matches and all-out fistfights between our own selves on the bench ... during games!

Sometimes after winning, even!

Youda never thought it if you met us in our street clothes. And we dearly loved each other once we got to the bar afterwards.

But, the other teams would get one look at this and think "Those guys are nuts!" and play accordingly, by which I mean back on their heels a bit, just in case. Kind of subdued, like maybe danger ahead. Geez, winning isn't good enough for those crazy people, they'd think (I've had guys we played against tell me this years later), the stakes, whatever they are, are much higher.

But, let's keep begging irrelevantly away.

There's no time to do any Trump investigations since the foremost concern are Hillary's emails. Currently there are proceedings against the guys who set the server up for her.

No one in politics is sleazier than Rahm Emmanuel

Oh, Marty, my poor sweet child.
Don't ever change.

I'm reading the first volume of a new biography, "The Life Of Saul Bellow" by Zachery Leader.

Bellow's father was an illegal immigrant - a Russian Jew via Montreal, come to Chicago.

Leader writes, quoting Saul, the son:

This sense of safety applied as much, or almost as much, to illegal immigrants as to legal ones. "My father could ever get over it. He would say, 'Look, I carry no papers. I can do whatever I please. I can go wherever I like. There is no one to deny me my rights of citizenship. If there were any attempts to deny my rights of citizenship, it would become a scandal. The country would never stand for a thing like that. So I go around without papers, without passports, without personal identification, and its perfectly alright.' That Abraham (Saul's father) was not, in fact, a citizen, did nothing to temper the pride he took in America's protection of his rights.'"

Recall, the 100-year-olds, among you, that this is a Russian Jew, recently fresh from a just pre-Bolshevik Russia.

Good times. Kiss 'em goodbye.

The period around the turn of the 20th C was, I think, one of the high points in terms of us offering an open door to the rest of the world.

Factories needed workers, I guess.

At a lot of other times, including apparently now, Bellow's father would have been invited to pound sand.

I was personally disturbed by the ICE action this last week in which they waited outside of a homeless shelter, run by a church, to pick up undocumented immigrants who were staying there as they left.

I participate in organizations and programs to provide temporary housing and meals to homeless people. I know quite well that many of the folks served by those programs are immigrants, and I imagine that some number of them are undocumented. My participation in these things is in no small part motivated by my own religious, moral, and ethical beliefs, and I view my participation in those things as, among other things, an expression and exercise of religion.

All of that is now apparently to be used as bait to simplify the process of rounding up and deporting undocumented immigrants by ICE. The deportation for any grounds other than criminal activity is, in itself, something I object to on religious, moral, and ethical grounds, but I can assure you that I will not in any way be granted any relief from the requirement to support the rounding up and deportation of those people through my taxes, and now apparently through my participation in providing them with food and shelter.

Do I hear a groundswell of outrage over the requirement that People Like Me support things that they have profound moral objections to? Let alone having our exercise of religion and conscience be the occasion for those things?

Ha ha! What a funny guy I am, asking these funny questions!

Maybe they are going to try to deport 11 million people.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/memos-signed-by-dhs-secretary-describe-sweeping-new-guidelines-for-deporting-illegal-immigrants/2017/02/18/7538c072-f62c-11e6-8d72-263470bf0401_story.html?postshare=1531487467188845&tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.a94f08f0db9a

Normal course of dealing, from twitter:

The Feds just asked the Ninth Circuit at 10pm on a Friday night to enter an emergency order denying detained immigrant kids bail hearings

It almost seems like Trump (or the folks driving his administration's actions on immigrants) has determined to show how to lose rural/agricultural America for the Republican Party for a generation.

Already, farm owners who have been solid Republicans for ages are in a panic. They may hate big government in general, and Washington in particular (while loving the subsidies, of course). But they are real clear that:
1) the only way their crops get harvested is by immigrants, specifically illegal Hispanic immigrants. All the talk about Americans willing to do that work is nonsense spouted by people who live in cities.
2) they have crops planted right now which are at serious risk of rotting in the fields, with all the financial pain that would entail. And that's just with their usual workers nervous about what is happening. God help their businesses if something like Ugh's link describes comes down.
3) their concerns are getting zero attention from the White House, or from Republicans in Congress.

Result? We could be looking at a lot of carefully drawn safe red districts changing hands abruptly. Because note that it isn't just the farm owners who suffer when the crops don't get harvested. The entire local economy depends on processing and transporting those harvested crops, and supplying goods and services to those who do.

Reince

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/trump-media-reince-priebus-235181

yeah, but rahm was a sleazebag, so even stevens.

Well, chain gangs could be brought back for those harvests. Sheriff Arpaio would be delighted to become head of the program, I presume. While the 11 million (or was it billion, I seem to have misplaced the talking points sheet) wait for deportation they could be put to work (to cover the costs). And since child labour laws obviously do not apply to illegal offspring, the toddlers could be put to use too. Hopefully, the expected treatment will further reduce the numbers that have eventually to be deported (although the hardy survivors will need some special treatment). I had some old German manuals on that right here but someone seems to have absconded with them.

[if it was not clear, the above is sarcasm but these days far too close to the actual mindset of some people].

we've already had a sheriff here in MA volunteering folks in his jail as labor to Build The Wall.

So, prison labor to pick lettuce is not too far-fetched.

Poor Sweden.

CPAC freakshow:

Controversial author and Breitbart News editor Milo Yiannopoulos will be the keynote speaker at this year's Conservative Political Action Conference.

Although I guess it has always been a freakshow.

How do you say "Bowling Green" in Swedish?

https://twitter.com/dougallchops/status/833268073419403264

we've already had a sheriff here in MA volunteering folks in his jail as labor to Build The Wall.

So, prison labor to pick lettuce is not too far-fetched.

That people would come up with the idea is, indeed, not far fetched. Specifically people (whether politicians or sheriffs) who have no clue what the jobs actually entail.

Major construction is not something that just any bozo off the street can step in and do. Like other jobs, it's gotten both more mechanized (if not quite automated) and more skilled in the last century -- which seems to be when the popular image of construction got stuck.

And agriculture likewise. Put someone who has never done it out for the harvest and they will be super slow. Not to mention the fact that the stuff they pick will likely be badly bruised, not yet ripe, etc., etc., etc.

And, as anyone who has actually done it can testify, it's brutally hard work physically. You might not care about that in one sense, since we are talking about convicts. But having your workers collapse, from exhaustion or heat stroke, isn't going to help get the work done.

Using convict labor is one of those ideas that sounds really great. As long as you are ignorant of the reality on the ground. Of course, we've got a lot of that around these days....

Although I guess it has always been a freakshow.

compared to Coulter, Yiannapoulos is small beer. that comment is not snark.

And, as anyone who has actually done it can testify, it's brutally hard work

I followed my uncle around one morning picking pole beans. I was probably 20, he was probably 65 or so.

I lasted about a half hour. He worked all morning, came in, had lunch and some sweet tea, watched a soap opera until the worst heat of the day passed, then went back out and worked another three or four hours.

I think you have to grow up with it.

One thing about growing up with farm work. You will never again in your life feel like you are working hard. ;-)

Poor Sweden.

We're next. IKEA (which I'm told is Swedish for "Al-Qaeda in the Scandinavian Peninsula") has been infiltrating the US for years now, and has sells - er, cells - in or around a dozen or two major population centers...

IKEA is a cult, it's true.

But then again, so is Apple.

The Honeycrisp sect is the worst.

Sheriff Arpaio...

That's former Sheriff Arpaio. He lost his bid for reelection this past November by 12.8 percentage points.

Poor Sweden.

As it turns out, the "thing that happened in Sweden" was Tucker Carlson interviewing wingnut Ami Horowitz on Fox about his (Horowitz') documentary on how Sweden has become the rape capital of Europe.

Tucker Carlson is now the source of DJT's intelligence on matters of international policy.

Maybe we should just shut down the CIA and the NSA and save a lot of money.

It's just growing pains. Obama used to do the same thing!

There are reasons why Sweden leads the world in reported rapes:

https://www.quora.com/Is-Sweden-the-rape-capital-of-the-world

In a lot of other countries, cough, reporting a rape makes conservative politicians, and a few liberal ones horny and deeply preachy and religious all in one big climactic cross purpose, so victims tend to keep it to themselves. In fact, they blame the victims for encouraging rape and then they do a handstand on a keg and ask the victims out because the former suddenly feel like they might get lucky.

At FOX News, admitting to having been raped gets you to the front of the interview line with the boss and the boyfriends on FOX and Boyfriends.

Tucker Carlson, who personally stabbed irony in from behind some time ago, conducted his explosive interview right down the hall from the former lair of the handsomest man in America.

I'm sure the situation in Sweden is not as the likes of Tucker Carlson or Ami Horowitz would describe it.

I'm also sure that whatever the rape situation in Sweden is, it has bugger-all to do with US immigration policy.

Further, and finally, it behooves the POTUS to not base his public policy, whether actually implemented or just bruited about at "campaign rallies", on histrionic bullshit he hears on Fox.

Seriously, WTF? This really is like drunken uncle Ed as president of the US.

Except I suspect this is just DJT playing the part of drunken uncle Ed as POTUS. Because his crew eat it up.

Four years of damage chaos and lies, coming your way. Buckle up.

I hear that Wikileaks has first-hand data on the amount of raping that goes on in Sweden, but is holding it back until "the time is right".

I'm also sure that whatever the rape situation in Sweden is, it has bugger-all to do with US immigration policy.

As I've had it explained to me several times on social media (why oh why don't I just stick to nice, sensible, semi-accountable social media like FB?) over the weekend since this became Received Common Knowledge, we need to bomb them over there and then close our borders so they don't rape us over here. There's a great deal of "Look to dear departed Sweden; it's too late for them, but if we learn from their tragic example we can prevent the regressives from making cucks of us all. Oh, and I suppose keeping our womenfolk from being raped, too."

Sadly, this narrative is compelling to more people than just drunken uncle Ed...

I'm also sure that whatever the rape situation in Sweden is, it has bugger-all to do with US immigration policy.

As I've had it explained to me several times on social media (why oh why don't I just stick to nice, sensible, semi-accountable social media like FB?) over the weekend since this became Received Common Knowledge, we need to bomb them over there and then close our borders so they don't rape us over here. There's a great deal of "Look to dear departed Sweden; it's too late for them, but if we learn from their tragic example we can prevent the regressives from making cucks of us all. Oh, and I suppose keeping our womenfolk from being raped, too."

Sadly, this narrative is compelling to more people than just drunken uncle Ed...

Speaking of "why oh why", I'd love to think that I'd have the sense to remember to use tab & enter to post comments from my desktop when I know bloody well the mouse button is gonna double-click. Someday, maybe... sigh

http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/250541/President-s-Analyst-The-Movie-Clip-They-re-All-Spies-.html

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